My latest phase of understanding folks

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My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:30 am

There are no lords, kings, queens etc...

WE DO NOT OWN EACH OTHER!!!!!

When you say MY [insert being], you are radiating SLAVE mentality.

There are two ways to look at this next part:

If we used our intelligence to form millions of intentional communities to equalize sex distribution and sex politics, we'd have a global community that used better communication for better outcomes ...

We were either not taught correctly or didn't emerge correctly... we are all mistakes, BIG mistakes...

Had we been taught or emerged correctly, not one of us would have been born.

What people use as anger and aggression is associative... what does the word "kiwi" make you think of? Maybe "bird" instead of "fruit"

In this way, the mind uses the understanding that if the world grew properly, none of us would be here as an EXCUSE to punish, kill, maim, suicide etc...

The OWNERSHIP of marriage is the massive flaw of history... you love someone, they love you, you love each other ... marriage is about ownership, not love!

The deeper problem is the zero sum stuff ...

Ex: One person for one person, even though it not only breaks their heart, but billions of other hearts

We have no choice as we move forward to be heartbreakers...

I'm currently working with alternate realities to solve this core chronic disease... with alternate realities, moving people around, you can turn 4 broken hearted people into 4 fulfilled people...

I'm trying to do this cosmically
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:57 am

For some strange reason I'm in the mood for sharing my thoughts in real time this morning. :D

Being true to yourself ... the hell with the consequences ... is not a bad way to live.

Ecmandu ... as you know the PE in our previous e-exchanges has not been terribly friendly or complementary.

Your post seems to dovetail with thoughts that are swimming around in my head at the moment.

Evolution ... in all it's forms ... for all organic and inorganic matter on the planet ... for that matter ... in the universe ... is unstoppable. Yes ... No ???

The image that comes to mind is a person in a canoe enjoying a peaceful jaunt down some unknown river ... the experience is blissful ... for a time ... suddenly the canoeist runs into some white water ... rapids ... not threatening at first sight yet increasingly threatening as the canoeist dodges the rocks.

What's the likely reaction?

Head for shore and try to figure out if a portage of some sort is necessary.

So it is with evolution ... segments of the human species have traversed countless periods of 'blissful' evolution ... today is not one of them. :D

We're clinging to the shore of the river ... trying to figure out what the hell to do next.

For me alternate realities is a cop out ... we need to harness the willpower to get back in the canoe and keep paddling ... and keep dodging the rocks. :-)

Jordan Peterson expressed it eloquently ... "Life is a catastrophe ... accept it ... work with it ... not against it.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:12 am

Let's look at a problem that emerges even under the "best case scenario". Some highly desirable partner has a choice of millions of people they are perfectly compatible with in different ways.

No matter which choice they make, they break their own heart for sure, and millions of others.

That's the root problem, with many variations...

Any attempt to solve this problem is the direct opposite of a "cop-out"
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:54 am

Ecmandu wrote:Let's look at a problem that emerges even under the "best case scenario". Some highly desirable partner has a choice of millions of people they are perfectly compatible with in different ways.

No matter which choice they make, they break their own heart for sure, and millions of others.

That's the root problem, with many variations...

Any attempt to solve this problem is the direct opposite of a "cop-out"


Ecmandu ... I'm in my third marriage ... to a woman from an alien culture. I have virtually no contact with any of my children(5) and have only ever seen 2 of my 10 grandchildren. Ditto for my 8 living siblings.

So what eh!

As we journey through life our individual trauma(s) are personal gifts ... not flaws in the "system".

When we recognize the trauma as a gift new horizons open up ... exciting horizons. :-)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:43 am

I'm currently working with alternate realities to solve this core chronic disease


Any attempt to solve this problem is the direct opposite of a "cop-out"


More emerging thoughts for your consideration Ecmandu.

1) Your observations/understanding of human life are insightful ... a tribute to your intelligence.

2) OTH ... your consideration of alternate realities is an insult to your intelligence.

How so?

1) At this time we are unable to compass the reality we are part of ... ergo ... the universe.

2) Unable to reach the outer boundary precludes discovery of an alternate reality.

3) Any claim to have discovered an alternate reality is an illusion ... the equivalent of a pain killer or ingestion of some mind altering chemical compound.

4) We should be encouraged to embrace our pain ... not simply tolerate it ... ergo ... brother pain stay with me as long as it takes to teach me why you are visiting me.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:26 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
I'm currently working with alternate realities to solve this core chronic disease


Any attempt to solve this problem is the direct opposite of a "cop-out"


More emerging thoughts for your consideration Ecmandu.

1) Your observations/understanding of human life are insightful ... a tribute to your intelligence.

2) OTH ... your consideration of alternate realities is an insult to your intelligence.

How so?

1) At this time we are unable to compass the reality we are part of ... ergo ... the universe.

2) Unable to reach the outer boundary precludes discovery of an alternate reality.

3) Any claim to have discovered an alternate reality is an illusion ... the equivalent of a pain killer or ingestion of some mind altering chemical compound.

4) We should be encouraged to embrace our pain ... not simply tolerate it ... ergo ... brother pain stay with me as long as it takes to teach me why you are visiting me.


I'm just going to say for the record, this response is absurd on multiple levels of my life experience. Eventually everyone figures out this is a lose/lose reality... consciousness simply will not tolerate that. For those of you who think you've won, you're not at that stage yet, and there are aspects of existence not revealed. Let me try to explain this as well as I can... if you lose and are neglected, you are abused in all manner of ways, when you lose, you really lose... but there's another layer to it... when you "win" the house, the partner, the friends (which are loved ones) - you are filling zero sum slots - empathetic and conscientious people cannot stand that this is the definition of winning - breaking billions of hearts at once to feel good. In this way, when you win you lose... existence doesn't lose, it will not tolotate a lose/lose scenario for every being... that's when you begin to emerge into the sheer brilliance and genius of existence itself.

Ultimately , everyone argues their own case with all that is.
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 am

Interesting post Ecmandu

Though I'm not sure I grasp your intention ... let me paraphrase your comments with my preferred terminology. :-)

All people attend the "school of hard knocks" many times in their lives ... some people spend a long time in this school.

Very very few people graduate the "school of hard knocks" ... ergo ... leave the school with a complete understanding of the why/purpose of the "hard knock" they experienced.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:08 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Interesting post Ecmandu

Though I'm not sure I grasp your intention ... let me paraphrase your comments with my preferred terminology. :-)

All people attend the "school of hard knocks" many times in their lives ... some people spend a long time in this school.

Very very few people graduate the "school of hard knocks" ... ergo ... leave the school with a complete understanding of the why/purpose of the "hard knock" they experienced.


The purpose is to graduate to the level of "when you win, you're also just some jerk!" The last level to conquer is to understand that those who win the "game" of life, actually are just pissing off billions of people, and this should leave them devastatingly broken hearted, as if kicked to the gutter of life. I take my journey seriously, of not just for the idea of being able to rest, not only in my heaven, but to know the path exists for everyone else, should they enter the phase of knowing what they want without taking from another injuriously.
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:34 am

Ecmandu wrote:The purpose is to graduate to the level of "when you win, you're also just some jerk!" The last level to conquer is to understand that those who win the "game" of life, actually are just pissing off billions of people,makes me think about the concept "Butterfly Effect" Is it applicable to your thought?and this should leave them devastatingly broken hearted, as if kicked to the gutter of life. I take my journey seriously, of not just for the idea of being able to rest, not only in my heaven, but to know the path exists for everyone else, should they enter the phase of knowing what they want without taking from another injuriously.I really like your last 5 words ... paraphrasing the previous 10 words ... should they enter the phase of knowing their life's purpose
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:05 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:The purpose is to graduate to the level of "when you win, you're also just some jerk!" The last level to conquer is to understand that those who win the "game" of life, actually are just pissing off billions of people,makes me think about the concept "Butterfly Effect" Is it applicable to your thought?and this should leave them devastatingly broken hearted, as if kicked to the gutter of life. I take my journey seriously, of not just for the idea of being able to rest, not only in my heaven, but to know the path exists for everyone else, should they enter the phase of knowing what they want without taking from another injuriously.I really like your last 5 words ... paraphrasing the previous 10 words ... should they enter the phase of knowing their life's purpose


Every different "you" would have a different soul...you need that to have a straight you and a gay you, for example... it's somewhat heady, the topic on more levels than that, but that's a small part... compatability in the way that each person thinks the world was made just for them, is another aspect of it as well. Meaning: nobody would choose a different life if asked; the happy gardener analogy.

Consciousness will not accept lose/lose for every being. Win/lose, lose/win for higher states is just lose/lose
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Re: My latest phase of understanding folks

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:06 am

Ecmandu wrote:Every different "you" would have a different soul...you need that to have a straight you and a gay you, for example... it's somewhat heady, the topic on more levels than that, but that's a small part... compatability in the way that each person thinks the world was made just for them, is another aspect of it as well. Meaning: nobody would choose a different life if asked; the happy gardener analogy.

Consciousness will not accept lose/lose for every being. Win/lose, lose/win for higher states is just lose/lose


Ecmandu ... delightful comments ... interesting to read and digest.

While our thoughts are expressed in substantially different language ... feels like we are recognizing "common ground" with each post ... hope the feeling is mutual.

Your last 4 words ... "the happy gardener analogy" struck a chord.

I just had my "happy gardener" experience last summer ... shared some thoughts in this OP ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=192891

The following sentence remains "top of mind" ... for me ... seems to dovetail with your comments on "consciousness"

The peanut seed ... the genesis of it's symbiotic relationship with the soil occurs in the ground ... in the dark ... unseen ... dancing alone with the soil. Reminds me of the book "Dark Night of the Soul" by St John of the Cross. According to St John the genesis of our symbiotic relationship with God starts in the dark ... in the unknown ... the unseen ... some part of our being is dancing with God and we're not consciously aware of the dance.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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