When you walk around the corner

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:03 am

and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby MagsJ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:53 am

A case of out of sight out of mind? but in our minds we know that they still exist.. for survival's sake we need to acknowledge that they still exist.. the current state of the world being a case in point.
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:34 pm

unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.

That's true.
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10901
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:26 pm

MagsJ wrote:A case of out of sight out of mind? but in our minds we know that they still exist.. for survival's sake we need to acknowledge that they still exist.. the current state of the world being a case in point.


There is a need for the idea of others, or a preference to believe in others, but don't understand why beyond loneliness.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:48 am

There's a David Lewis paper where he talks about his cat walking around the room behind him, and how he knows it's his cat even though there'd be uncertainty because he couldn't see it behind him. It's a good read. I think it's called, "Elusive Knowledge".
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 25450
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:37 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:There's a David Lewis paper where he talks about his cat walking around the room behind him, and how he knows it's his cat even though there'd be uncertainty because he couldn't see it behind him. It's a good read. I think it's called, "Elusive Knowledge".



Wouldn't trust my eyes enough to know they were scanning. More elusive?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:49 am

unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.
I believe in such a case, one need to bring contexts into consideration.

One critical point is related to survival [as pointed out above] re threats and opportunities.
If a person [e.g. jihadist] is a 'threat' and carrying a weapon looking for people to kill and have walked around the corner, I have to assume with a higher probability the jihadist still exist/alive.

Philosophically there is no 100% certainty, re Hume, as we can never be sure even of the Sun [untracked] will rise tomorrow morning, we cannot be certain the person who had walked around the corner still exist/alive. Anything could have happen outside our sight.

In the absence of serious threats, the consideration whether the person is existing, alive or physically present after disappearing round a corner will depend on various contexts.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:56 am

unknowing wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:There's a David Lewis paper where he talks about his cat walking around the room behind him, and how he knows it's his cat even though there'd be uncertainty because he couldn't see it behind him. It's a good read. I think it's called, "Elusive Knowledge".



Wouldn't trust my eyes enough to know they were scanning. More elusive?



There's another one about that called something like, "Veridical Hallucination and Prosthetic VIsion". Do you believe that x=x and that 2 things can be identical and that for any given thing there is a quantity of said thing?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 25450
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 am

Yeah, I believe 2 things can be identical, but I probably operate more often as if there is a chance they not identical. If don't think about it, I treat given things as having a certain quantity. However, if I do think about it, I'm more of a infinite oneness person.

You seem to be up on papers.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:02 pm

unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.


Do you stop existing when people stop seeing your or thinking about you? No? Then there's no reason to think it happens to anyone else. Proof is a matter of convincing~
User avatar
WW_III_ANGRY
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:52 am

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:48 am

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:
unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.


Do you stop existing when people stop seeing your or thinking about you? No? Then there's no reason to think it happens to anyone else. Proof is a matter of convincing~


I suppose I could answer that a few ways . . .

I would have to know that such people have thoughts, even in my presence. Which I have yet to prove. They display behavior that suggests thinking, like me, but I don't know that they have thoughts.

They would have to continue to exist outside of my perception to think of me outside their perception, which is the same problem as the op.

I prefer to believe there are others, near me and away from me, because I am lonely. I am god, we are god, even though I don't feel godly now. At best this oneness has split into many for the sake of company or a mirror effect. In a sense, I prefer you to reply to me like you did, to challenge me, so I can think of others as real. To present me with a multitude of perspectives.

Although it is all an illusion, it is almost convincing. More persistent than convincing.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:05 am

I believe that question re 'Tree in forest falling in the forest and no one around .. it there a sound?" is applicable to the above OP as well.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:02 pm

unknowing wrote:
WW_III_ANGRY wrote:
unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.


Do you stop existing when people stop seeing your or thinking about you? No? Then there's no reason to think it happens to anyone else. Proof is a matter of convincing~


I suppose I could answer that a few ways . . .

I would have to know that such people have thoughts, even in my presence. Which I have yet to prove. They display behavior that suggests thinking, like me, but I don't know that they have thoughts.

They would have to continue to exist outside of my perception to think of me outside their perception, which is the same problem as the op.

I prefer to believe there are others, near me and away from me, because I am lonely. I am god, we are god, even though I don't feel godly now. At best this oneness has split into many for the sake of company or a mirror effect. In a sense, I prefer you to reply to me like you did, to challenge me, so I can think of others as real. To present me with a multitude of perspectives.

Although it is all an illusion, it is almost convincing. More persistent than convincing.


Thoughts are known because people move. No movement, no thoughts, no behavior, no thoughts.

You can go down a rabbit hole in which nothing makes any sense if one doubts reasoned logic. Of course, it is profound a good way to begin to question everything, but solipsism doesn't really explain anything about reality. The perception of reality is an illusion perhaps, I'm not so sure about reality being an illusion. There's really nothing to back that up and all evidence points towards the contrary.
User avatar
WW_III_ANGRY
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:52 am

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:34 pm

unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.


Why would you have to?
Just let it all go and it will take care of itself.
Everything does, eventually.


Or what you could do is go to a nearby roof and look down. Better view of him or her from there. :mrgreen:
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.


Why would you have to?
Just let it all go and it will take care of itself.
Everything does, eventually.


Or what you could do is go to a nearby roof and look down. Better view of him or her from there. :mrgreen:


haha, true, true. :)
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:44 am

Playing a video game, I climbed onto the roof of skyscraper. I could see the game characters with a sniper rifle in the distance. After a certain point the characters were walking to a spot then disappearing. I suppose the game programmers didn't account for a player seeing so far or from that angle. Those characters were no longer required to simulate the simulation and keep the illusion of full city going. Re-alotting data, thus allowing for more intense and lifelike foreground.

This thread is about the competency of our real world programmer(s). Just how perfect is he, she, it, them?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby MagsJ » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:19 am

unknowing wrote:
MagsJ wrote:A case of out of sight out of mind? but in our minds we know that they still exist.. for survival's sake we need to acknowledge that they still exist.. the current state of the world being a case in point.


There is a need for the idea of others, or a preference to believe in others, but don't understand why beyond loneliness.

We all always end up seeking out another.. even when alone.

Philosophically speaking though: perhaps we don't care if a person still exists once we have gone round the corner, as our heads are full of insular thoughts most times.. an existence for one. And perhaps in those instances they, and everything else, cease to exist.
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby unknowing » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:31 pm

MagsJ wrote:
unknowing wrote:
MagsJ wrote:A case of out of sight out of mind? but in our minds we know that they still exist.. for survival's sake we need to acknowledge that they still exist.. the current state of the world being a case in point.


There is a need for the idea of others, or a preference to believe in others, but don't understand why beyond loneliness.

We all always end up seeking out another.. even when alone.

Philosophically speaking though: perhaps we don't care if a person still exists once we have gone round the corner, as our heads are full of insular thoughts most times.. an existence for one. And perhaps in those instances they, and everything else, cease to exist.


I like this post a lot. :)
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
User avatar
unknowing
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Far from The Northwestly Winds

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:28 pm

unknowing wrote:and I cant see you, especially after you've left my thoughts...

I can't prove to myself that you continue to exist.
'prove to myself' is pretty vague. If one is skeptical even if I am present, you may be hallucinating, dreaming, on drugs, confusing my twin with me, or a stranger who looks like me. Prove is probably a poor word choice. I feel happy to consider it knowledge that other people exist when they are not directly in my line of sight.
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: When you walk around the corner

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:15 am

unknowing wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
unknowing wrote:There is a need for the idea of others, or a preference to believe in others, but don't understand why beyond loneliness.
We all always end up seeking out another.. even when alone.

Philosophically speaking though: perhaps we don't care if a person still exists once we have gone round the corner, as our heads are full of insular thoughts most times.. an existence for one. And perhaps in those instances they, and everything else, cease to exist.
I like this post a lot. :)

Why thank you, unknowing.. I appreciate your appreciation of my post in response to your's. ;)
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1


Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], surreptitious75