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Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:12 pm
by Magnus Anderson
James S Saint wrote:Learn the words.


You should learn how to use your right side of the brain and stop being so fixated on words. There is more to life than words.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:15 pm
by phyllo
The question is WHO decides whether any given opinion is true or false. Is it humans, as Protagoras says, or is it something that is independent from humans e.g. objective reality?
"Objective reality" doesn't decide anything ... it's not alive. Only live beings can decide and judge.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:24 pm
by James S Saint
Magnus Anderson wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Learn the words.


You should learn how to use your right side of the brain and stop being so fixated on words. There is more to life than words.

Learn the words you use and your right side won't have to struggle so much with your confusion.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:26 pm
by Magnus Anderson
phyllo wrote:
The question is WHO decides whether any given opinion is true or false. Is it humans, as Protagoras says, or is it something that is independent from humans e.g. objective reality?
"Objective reality" doesn't decide anything ... it's not alive. Only live beings can decide and judge.


There you go. So you agree with Protagoras. Thanks for wasting people's time.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:29 pm
by Magnus Anderson
James S Saint wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Learn the words.


You should learn how to use your right side of the brain and stop being so fixated on words. There is more to life than words.

Learn the words you use and your right side won't have to struggle so much with your confusion.


What confusion, my friend? You are the one who is confused here. And this is because you're trying to use an approach in a situation for which it is not applicable. Basically, you're using linear thinking when it is not applicable. You get seriously confused and annoyed when processing words in a linear fashion does not help you understand what the other person is saying. That's what's confusing you and also what makes you think other people are confused. We've been over this so many times in the past.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:40 pm
by phyllo
Magnus Anderson wrote:
phyllo wrote:
The question is WHO decides whether any given opinion is true or false. Is it humans, as Protagoras says, or is it something that is independent from humans e.g. objective reality?
"Objective reality" doesn't decide anything ... it's not alive. Only live beings can decide and judge.


There you go. So you agree with Protagoras. Thanks for wasting people's time.
You're free to think whatever you want to think.

People are free to think that what I write is a waste of time or that it is valuable or anything in between. What they think is not in my control.

You don't have to read anything that I write and you don't have to respond to anything that I write. You're deciding to spend your time in a particular way.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:51 pm
by Magnus Anderson
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:15 am
by Prismatic567
James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:What happened was within the Western Philosophy community, a group of people claimed their views represent reality, thus 'Realism'.

False.

"Realism" is the belief that there is a Reality, regardless of whether anyone fully understands that reality.

Learn the words.
This is why your philosophical knowledge is so narrow and shallow.
It is very typical in philosophy for a group to come up with a set of philosophical ideas and give it a name. It is the same everywhere.
The meaning of words are based on human consensus and do not necessary reflect the reality until there is sufficient verification and rational justifications.
Note the word 'gay' has its proper reference when only defined by the user.

"Realism" is the belief that there is a Reality, regardless of whether anyone fully understands that reality.
Show me the proof for that 'Reality' regardless of whether anyone fully understands that "reality".
Your reification of "that reality" is driven by psychological impulses just as the claim of certainty 'X caused effect Y' [note Hume]


Prismatic567 wrote:The Philosophical Anti-Realists are a group of those who do not agree with the Realists' view of 'what is reality'.

False.
The "Anti-realist" believes that there is NO Reality (just as you have claimed in the past). I would say that YOU are an "anti-realist", but in reality, I think that you are merely confused and too busy preaching your sermons to learn anything.
I have never claimed there is no reality. Where did I say so?
What I have claimed is that 'reality' that you claimed as absolutely real is actually an illusion.
I believe the Sun, Moon, and the likes are real but such realness is emergent and actualized interdependently with the subjects.


Prismatic567 wrote:
which means that you believe in solipsism.
You may not realize it, in fact your views are solipistic and implicit/inherent your view of reality is solipsism. Note my proof of this in this thread;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=193716
Try to prove me wrong on this!

He has a good reason to "not realize this", because it is nonsense.[/quote]Where is your arguments?

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:42 am
by James S Saint
Prismatic567 wrote:
"Realism" is the belief that there is a Reality, regardless of whether anyone fully understands that reality.
Show me the proof for that 'Reality' regardless of whether anyone fully understands that "reality".

It doesn't matter if there is any proof or even any evidence. What the word MEANS is that the person believes that there is a Reality.

Certainly you already know that the word "theist" refers to someone who BELIEVES there is a God, whether he has any proof or not.

It is the same with the word "Realist". It is about what is believed, not whether anyone is right in their beliefs. It is merely a language issue. Why can't you see something as simple as that?

Prismatic567 wrote:I have never claimed there is no reality. Where did I say so?

As soon as you claimed that everyone has their own "reality". That means that there is no actual reality. Or did that not occur to you?

Prismatic567 wrote:What I have claimed is that 'reality' that you claimed as absolutely real is actually an illusion.

No one is arguing with that.

Prismatic567 wrote:I believe the Sun, Moon, and the likes are real but such realness is emergent and actualized interdependently with the subjects.

That is a bit senseless, but still, THAT IS YOUR REALISM THEORY, that you certainly cannot prove any more than others can prove theirs (in fact, certainly less).

Prismatic567 wrote:Where is your arguments?

Proofs are beyond you.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:32 am
by Prismatic567
James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
"Realism" is the belief that there is a Reality, regardless of whether anyone fully understands that reality.
Show me the proof for that 'Reality' regardless of whether anyone fully understands that "reality".

It doesn't matter if there is any proof or even any evidence. What the word MEANS is that the person believes that there is a Reality.

Certainly you already know that the word "theist" refers to someone who BELIEVES there is a God, whether he has any proof or not.

It is the same with the word "Realist". It is about what is believed, not whether anyone is right in their beliefs. It is merely a language issue. Why can't you see something as simple as that?
I understand what is 'belief' and it is stated in that Wiki article as a belief.
But in this case my extended thought is Philosophical Realists claim what they believe is really or the most real. Note Plato's Forms. This is the same as 'God exists' is a belief, but theists insist their God is real who listens and answers prayers, send his message via messengers/prophet, created the Universe and represent all of reality.

Now, are you admitting what is really real [aside from truths and perception of that reality] to you is a belief? You only has a belief of what is real.

Note the difference between 'belief' and 'knowledge' [justified true beliefs].

Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty.
Another way of defining belief sees it as a mental representation of an attitude positively oriented towards the likelihood of something being true.


Note "belief" is without factual certainty, so how can your 'reality' as idealized be credibly real?


Prismatic567 wrote:I have never claimed there is no reality. Where did I say so?

As soon as you claimed that everyone has their own "reality". That means that there is no actual reality. Or did that not occur to you?
I did not claim everyone has their own 'reality.'
I stated reality is an emergent on a collective basis with various subsets conditioned to various Frameworks and System, i.e. common sense [generic DNA], Scientific, etc.

Actually it is your sort of claim of reality, i.e. a reality that is independent of mind that result in each individual having their own 'reality' ultimately as opposed to the shared-reality I am claiming.

Prismatic567 wrote:Where are your arguments?

Proofs are beyond you.
That is a sign that you don't have any arguments to counter my views.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:24 pm
by Zero_Sum
Humanity describing itself as the measure of all things strikes me as arrogance and hubris but then again human civilization is an exercise of false confidence.

Re: Man is the Measure of All Things

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:26 am
by Prismatic567
Zero_Sum wrote:Humanity describing itself as the measure of all things strikes me as arrogance and hubris but then again human civilization is an exercise of false confidence.
Nah, the concept of 'humans measure of all things' is including 'warts and all'.

When humanity understand and acknowledge that concept then they will realize they [individual(s) and groups] must be accountable for all things [good and evil] and thus must take responsibilities to correct all the evils and ills contributed by humans.