Why You Are Here

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Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Philosophers seek out wisdom.

But where is wisdom? What is wisdom? Who holds wisdom, like a torch, to pass onto another?

It's pointless for anybody to come here, when there is no wisdom to be found. Thus you congregate, hoping to hear or receive it, but leave empty handed. You did not get what you wanted, so leave disappointed. Yet you come back again, and again, and again, each time hoping for the same absent quality. Because you come to consume rather than to produce. It is easy to consume, in nature. It is most difficult to produce. This rule applies to wisdom, as it does to all other traits. So wisdom can be likened to a passing fad or fancy. Humans in general follow trends, traffic, styles, icons, and leaders, without knowing why or how, or caring why or how, but rather do so mindlessly and compulsively. But intuition and instinct comprise the skeleton and framework for such actions. All people, all things, are seeking meaning, purpose, and value in life. The diverse manifestations of these values are inconsequential, to the search and seeking itself.

So you come for wisdom. That is why you are here. But you have done nothing to deserve wisdom. Your search and pursuit are shallow. Because you do not have your questions in mind, nor reasons to justify them, nor the will to impose questions upon others. The demand for wisdom is the core of it all. Some are thirstier than others. Some need wisdom more than others. And those most needy, most wanting, will take the greatest risks, and make the greatest sacrifices, to fulfill desire, and take what is needed most.

There are two parts needed for philosophy: 1) the one who holds wisdom, carries it, passes it on, and 2) the one most desperate, needing, and wanting for it, a prodigy who will stop at nothing for it.


Between these two, is everybody else, including you. Bystanders, the audience, passive, voiceless, without any great role, but all playing subsidiary parts to a play between philosopher and prodigy. The Learned, versus the Learner.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby dan25 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Many come here because they believe they are already in possession of wisdom, and want to share it (or show off how wise THEY are).
Why are you here?
Are you one of the learners or the learned?
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Meno_ » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:07 pm

And some come here neither for the above , necessarily, but try to share some semblance of missing pieces which have alluded them and try to find some kin notions to alleviate the basic alienation that has defined them.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby surreptitious75 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:48 pm

I am here to understand the thought processes of the knowledgeable and wise
I have no wisdom myself so am not really a participant here more an observer
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:36 pm

If wisdom is knowledge,
And knowledge is power,
Then wisdom is also power.

But what type of power is wisdom, exactly? Is wisdom more than a mere key-ring of answers, to all your questions? Is wisdom other than a light in the darkness, a torch leading the way into the unknown?
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby dan25 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:45 pm

Wisdom is not knowledge, imo.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby James S Saint » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:50 pm

dan25 wrote:Wisdom is not knowledge, imo.

True
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby surreptitious75 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:56 pm

Knowledge comes before wisdom and so someone who is wise will
have knowledge but someone who has knowledge may not be wise
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Zero_Sum » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:29 pm

I am here to show or present with what I know and sometimes find information when it presents itself of things that I do not in learning for myself. I also have no social life off the internet and thus becomes the only place where I can speak freely without getting into too much trouble. There are so many times I get into trouble speaking my mind freely offline that I just don't do it anymore and avoid conversation with people offline in general. Here in the United States you become targeted by public social stigma if your beliefs don't conform to the attitudes of the majority or those in power. Since social status is everything in the United States it can be used against you in more ways than just one.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Pandora » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:14 pm

I came here searching for truth, and so far it has been like chewing on nails and drinking acid. Wisdom i think is another thing entirely. I don’t think the two necessarily go hand in hand, maybe like a dichotomy between nature and society/nurture, or the question of what to do with the truth. Does wisdom not use lies even while knowing the truth? Should it? I’m inclined to say yes, and that’s why I don’t mess with it too much, because it deals with artistry. And who is not to say that truth is not to be protected from people, or vice versa? Have we not learned at least this one lesson in the history of philosophy? I mean, what is one lesson that we have learned through the history of philosophy. I’d say that the human mind itself is the corrupting factor in dealing with reality, and will mold it to fit its own nature, just as it does with nature (driven by own physical and psychological survival and well-being). So is not wisdom self-serving by default or could not wisdom be an art of manipulating the truth in order to serve particular ends? What is the use of wisdom without end or goal? What happened when people first used the expression of wisdom, or love of wisdom? Did it not morph into love of sophistry and rhetoric?
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Pandora » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What I found surprising in philosophical discussion outside (and online) is the prevalence of what I call superstitious thinking, as if people are magnetically drawn to it. Nowadays philosophy goes hand in hand with mysticism, occultism and self-help psychologies of all kinds of varieties presenting themselves as “higher forms” of thinking or elevated forms of consciousness. Many kinds of shiny bling that drab people wear to pretend they are bigger and better than they really are. This is why I don’t go out to philosophical discussions that much. It sometimes quite scary to watch people being so overtaken by it. I sometimes tell myself that maybe it’s just a phase people go through and maybe once they fail to find the gold pot at the end of that rainbow they’ll wake up on their own. But fairy tales sell and sell well. People are not so eager to discover truth as they are to discover new hopes and fears.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Arminius » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:38 pm

Statistically said, the most ILP members are here because of TALK, not because of philosophy.
_____________________________________________________________
Rank| Subforum |____ Title of the Thread _____| Views | Replies |
_ 1 _| Off Topic _|_____ Word Association III ______|683894 | 16332 _|
_ 2 _| Off Topic _|Official: Post a Picture of Yourself |363784 |_ 3886 _|
_ 3 _| Off Topic _|_____ What are you doing? _____| 344239 | 10532 _|
_ 4 _| Off Topic _|_ A thread for mundane ironists _| 274281|_ 5683 _|
_ 5 _| Off Topic _|_______ My lack of posts _______| 253065 |__ 52 _|
_ 6 _| Off Topic _|____ Introduce yourself here ____| 214709 |_ 1592 _|
_ 7 _|_ S/G&E __|___ The Feminization of Man ___| 212223 |_ 3002 _|
_ 8 _|__ P&M ___|______ "Mental" Illness ...______| 158080 |_ 2650 _|
_ 9 _| Philosophy |Will machines completely replace | 139380 |_ 2162 _|
______________________ all human beings? _______________________

Rank 1-6) Off Topic subforum: 2,133,972 views, 38,077 replies.
Rank 7-9) Other subforums: ___ 509,683 views, _ 7,814 replies.
Last edited by Arminius on Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby surreptitious75 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:02 pm

I wonder what would happen were all the non philosophical chat removed from the forum
Would anyone actually notice and if they did would they want to leave or would they stay
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Arminius » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:07 pm

You are seldom posting in the subforum "Off Topic" (now called: "Non Philosophical Chat"). Right?
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Arminius » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:10 am

Arminius wrote:Statistically said, the most ILP members are here because of TALK, not because of philosophy.
_____________________________________________________________
Rank| Subforum |____ Title of the Thread _____| Views | Replies |
_ 1 _| Off Topic _|_____ Word Association III ______|683894 | 16332 _|
_ 2 _| Off Topic _|Official: Post a Picture of Yourself |363784 |_ 3886 _|
_ 3 _| Off Topic _|_____ What are you doing? _____| 344239 | 10532 _|
_ 4 _| Off Topic _|_ A thread for mundane ironists _| 274281|_ 5683 _|
_ 5 _| Off Topic _|_______ My lack of posts _______| 253065 |__ 52 _|
_ 6 _| Off Topic _|____ Introduce yourself here ____| 214709 |_ 1592 _|
_ 7 _|_ S/G&E __|___ The Feminization of Man ___| 212223 |_ 3002 _|
_ 8 _|__ P&M ___|______ "Mental" Illness ...______| 158080 |_ 2650 _|
_ 9 _| Philosophy |Will machines completely replace | 139380 |_ 2162 _|
______________________ all human beings? _______________________

Rank 1-6) Off Topic subforum: 2,133,972 views, 38,077 replies.
Rank 7-9) Other subforums: ___ 509,683 views, _ 7,814 replies.

All first 9 ranks: 2,643,655 views = 100%; 45891 replies = 100%.
Ranks 1-6 (off topic subforum): 2,133,972 views = 80.72%; 38,077 replies = 82.97%.
Ranks 7-9 (other subforums): ___ 509,683 views = 19.28%; _ 7,814 replies = 17.03%.

This seems to be according to the Pareto distribution again. :wink:
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:11 am

surreptitious75 wrote:Knowledge comes before wisdom and so someone who is wise will
have knowledge but someone who has knowledge may not be wise

I'm with you on that one.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:26 am

Zero_Sum wrote:I am here to show or present with what I know and sometimes find information when it presents itself of things that I do not in learning for myself. I also have no social life off the internet and thus becomes the only place where I can speak freely without getting into too much trouble. There are so many times I get into trouble speaking my mind freely offline that I just don't do it anymore and avoid conversation with people offline in general. Here in the United States you become targeted by public social stigma if your beliefs don't conform to the attitudes of the majority or those in power. Since social status is everything in the United States it can be used against you in more ways than just one.

Throughout my life I've found that discussing Philosophy person-to-person to be a waste of time. Average, normal people, aren't really interested in philosophical discussions, no matter how relevant or important the content maybe. This is because the average person is not learning or knowing about his/her own, meaning in life, but rather enacting it out. Average people are "too busy living" to examine their own lives. Thus their self-perception, self-consciousness, self-knowledge, self-identity is lacking. This is how people take sides in politics and religion. "My side is right, your side is wrong" the why and how is lost to the individual who holds the position. So average people go about their lives, holding views, opinions, values, that 1) they may not even know and 2) be completely wrong about. And even if they are wrong, and you could convince them, it won't mean that they change these wrong opinions, but rather that they would find another means and route to justify their incorrect position.

There have been times where I out-reasoned another guy, a co-worker, in front of a female co-worker, embarrassing him. Instead of learning a lesson, however, all he did is build resentiment and become vindictive. So I learned that it is a waste of time to reason with a fool. "He will only hate you for it." There are ways to convince and persuade people without resentment. And that is by leading them rhetorically so it feels as-if they come to the right/correct conclusion "on their own". Plato employed this through the "Socratic Method". You don't "prove the idiot, moron, fool wrong" in front of a crowd. Instead you lead him to the point where, no matter what s/he answers or responds, must do so in a way that exposes what they originally believed as false. Then they have no choice except to resign and concede defeat, or, claim the conclusion as their own, as-if they were responsible for discovering it.

I've experienced all of these firsthand. So I've come to the conclusion that online forums, seeking out like-minded people, about philosophy, is the surest route. In other words, if philosophy cannot be discussed here, on forums designed specifically for it, then where else can it? You can try to discuss philosophy person-to-person, but as mentioned, will probably waste your time. If average people and humanity wanted philosophy, then they too, would seek it out where it ought to be found, and that means places where philosophers congregate, or ought to congregate.

Academic philosophy, colleges, universities, is another option but a lesser one, as academia is political and interested in its own advancement and institutionalization. This is why I never pursued a 'formal' or academic end to philosophy. Academic philosophy is restricted, limited, and stunted. It has no freedom, which real philosophy can provide, outside all institutions. To think freely, is one of the highest goals. To truly 'own' your own mind, to have "your own thoughts" instead of merely being a follower or a tool to others, and especially to other, long-dead thinkers. How much of what an intelligent person knows, a very knowledgeable person, his or her own thoughts? It could be very little, or even nothing at all.

Look at a person, a stranger. It could very well be that 90-100% of "what they know", their knowledge, is not theirs at all. But rather they have inherited it, institutionalized, and been forced upon them. They can very well be a mental slave to another. And that other doesn't even have to be alive. Just as judeo-christians are slaves to a (dead) god. If a person must serve another, then why not the living, before the dead?

However the point remains, with philosophy there is hope, that you or any other can at least begin to own your own thoughts. To discover their sources, and understand, what you are responsible for versus what others are responsible for. Whether you had anything to do with the process of your own knowledge, or whether you received it from various sources: your parents, your family, your friends, your television, your movies, your media, your society, your history books, your institution, etc.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:34 am

Pandora wrote:I came here searching for truth, and so far it has been like chewing on nails and drinking acid. Wisdom i think is another thing entirely. I don’t think the two necessarily go hand in hand, maybe like a dichotomy between nature and society/nurture, or the question of what to do with the truth. Does wisdom not use lies even while knowing the truth? Should it? I’m inclined to say yes, and that’s why I don’t mess with it too much, because it deals with artistry. And who is not to say that truth is not to be protected from people, or vice versa? Have we not learned at least this one lesson in the history of philosophy? I mean, what is one lesson that we have learned through the history of philosophy. I’d say that the human mind itself is the corrupting factor in dealing with reality, and will mold it to fit its own nature, just as it does with nature (driven by own physical and psychological survival and well-being). So is not wisdom self-serving by default or could not wisdom be an art of manipulating the truth in order to serve particular ends? What is the use of wisdom without end or goal? What happened when people first used the expression of wisdom, or love of wisdom? Did it not morph into love of sophistry and rhetoric?

What I found surprising in philosophical discussion outside (and online) is the prevalence of what I call superstitious thinking, as if people are magnetically drawn to it. Nowadays philosophy goes hand in hand with mysticism, occultism and self-help psychologies of all kinds of varieties presenting themselves as “higher forms” of thinking or elevated forms of consciousness. Many kinds of shiny bling that drab people wear to pretend they are bigger and better than they really are. This is why I don’t go out to philosophical discussions that much. It sometimes quite scary to watch people being so overtaken by it. I sometimes tell myself that maybe it’s just a phase people go through and maybe once they fail to find the gold pot at the end of that rainbow they’ll wake up on their own. But fairy tales sell and sell well. People are not so eager to discover truth as they are to discover new hopes and fears.

My experiences have led me to some conclusions. Being 'right' is not enough. Being correct, reasoned, logical, rational, are all not enough. Because even if you are right, and there's almost no way to prove you wrong, doesn't mean people will agree with you or trust you. Because somebody who is too Righteous, and unlikable, will compel others away. This is why many egotistical thinkers and intelligencia of the distant past, are rejected and unpopular while they were alive, but then taken quickly after they died. People do not want to serve an unlikable persona, no matter how 'right' you are.

This is where the Artistry comes in. A philosopher could persuade and convince the masses of practically whatever you want. Because philosophy predates politics. Politicians have the same ability and skill. They can convince and seduce people of almost anything. But politicians are not concerned with truth, meaning, values, and philosophy. Politicians are focused almost entirely on power, and gaining it throughout society, by attempting to control society, and the people within. The primary objective of philosophy and philosophers, is more truth, more wisdom, and more knowledge. Thus the aims of philosopher and politician are divergent.

To persuade and convince people, usually fools and incompetents, is no great feat. Thus it doesn't really matter if you're 'Right' or whether you can persuade, seduce, and convince others even when you're 'Wrong'. For philosophy, the greater truths are the point. So what is wisdom them, in the context of knowledge? Knowledge is empty until you begin to guess whether what you know is true or false. If what a person knows is false then it is obviously dangerous, a liability. If what a person knows is true then it is an asset. Thus wisdom represents an application of judgment, true or false, over knowledge. True knowledge versus false knowledge. And this requires Judgment. Judgment requires Morality. Thus wisdom requires Morality.

Much of knowledge cannot be deemed true or false, without empiricism and realism, without applying and enacting knowledge directly against the world, existence. To put theory into practice. To merge the ideals, with the real.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:42 am

My main purpose of posting in this forum at present is not to show what I have learned nor to learn any thing new [if there is something new, that is fine]. As far as learning new knowledge within philosophy I undertake that responsibility myself instead of relying on others. These days with the internet it is much easier without having to buy all the necessary books from bookstores.

In philosophy there is a lot of grounds to cover which besides Western Philosophy also include Eastern and other philosophies. The average human like me has limited memory capabilities. Therefore to ensure what is learned is kept afresh the most effective approach is to participate in a discussion forum like this. This is the main purpose why I am here.

To promote effective discussion, I believe it is critically necessary to present one's philosophical CV and such facts should not be labelled as show off nor boasting. Presenting one's philosophical CV is a very common thing within the philosophical community as such information do facilitate effective discussions.

At present* not everyone has a strong proclivity for philosophy-proper, but if one has such philosophical propensity, one should go all out at it.
*In the future, all if not at least the average person must develop a high Philosophy-Quotient as a member of Team-Human and this will be facilitated and enabled with new technology.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Arminius » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:59 pm

Arminius wrote:
Arminius wrote:Statistically said, the most ILP members are here because of TALK, not because of philosophy.
_____________________________________________________________
Rank| Subforum |____ Title of the Thread _____| Views | Replies |
_ 1 _| Off Topic _|_____ Word Association III ______|683894 | 16332 _|
_ 2 _| Off Topic _|Official: Post a Picture of Yourself |363784 |_ 3886 _|
_ 3 _| Off Topic _|_____ What are you doing? _____| 344239 | 10532 _|
_ 4 _| Off Topic _|_ A thread for mundane ironists _| 274281|_ 5683 _|
_ 5 _| Off Topic _|_______ My lack of posts _______| 253065 |__ 52 _|
_ 6 _| Off Topic _|____ Introduce yourself here ____| 214709 |_ 1592 _|
_ 7 _|_ S/G&E __|___ The Feminization of Man ___| 212223 |_ 3002 _|
_ 8 _|__ P&M ___|______ "Mental" Illness ...______| 158080 |_ 2650 _|
_ 9 _| Philosophy |Will machines completely replace | 139380 |_ 2162 _|
______________________ all human beings? _______________________

Rank 1-6) Off Topic subforum: 2,133,972 views, 38,077 replies.
Rank 7-9) Other subforums: ___ 509,683 views, _ 7,814 replies.

All first 9 ranks: 2,643,655 views = 100%; 45891 replies = 100%.
Ranks 1-6 (off topic subforum): 2,133,972 views = 80.72%; 38,077 replies = 82.97%.
Ranks 7-9 (other subforums): ___ 509,683 views = 19.28%; _ 7,814 replies = 17.03%.

This seems to be according to the Pareto distribution again. :wink:

The 80% are the effect of the 20%. So, the 80% are here because of the 20%. 8)
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:05 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:My main purpose of posting in this forum at present is not to show what I have learned nor to learn any thing new [if there is something new, that is fine]. As far as learning new knowledge within philosophy I undertake that responsibility myself instead of relying on others. These days with the internet it is much easier without having to buy all the necessary books from bookstores.

In philosophy there is a lot of grounds to cover which besides Western Philosophy also include Eastern and other philosophies. The average human like me has limited memory capabilities. Therefore to ensure what is learned is kept afresh the most effective approach is to participate in a discussion forum like this. This is the main purpose why I am here.

To promote effective discussion, I believe it is critically necessary to present one's philosophical CV and such facts should not be labelled as show off nor boasting. Presenting one's philosophical CV is a very common thing within the philosophical community as such information do facilitate effective discussions.

At present* not everyone has a strong proclivity for philosophy-proper, but if one has such philosophical propensity, one should go all out at it.
*In the future, all if not at least the average person must develop a high Philosophy-Quotient as a member of Team-Human and this will be facilitated and enabled with new technology.

So you are not here to learn, or to produce, but rather to reinforce your pre-established beliefs. That sounds like a Fundamentalist position, like a Christian who has a fixed ideal of God, that comes to strengthen her conclusions. However, even reinforcing your preconceived ideals is a learning experience. It is another type of learning, perhaps without you even being aware of it.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:07 pm

Arminius wrote:The 80% are the effect of the 20%. So, the 80% are here because of the 20%. 8)

Exactly, the 80% are consumers and they are here to seek out the 20%, the producers.

Production in Nature is rare. Consumption is the norm. It is rare to "move things forward" or to "progress" in life, Evolution. And progress requires conflict, competition, overcoming adversity, etc.
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:46 pm

Pandora wrote:What I found surprising in philosophical discussion outside (and online) is the prevalence of what I call superstitious thinking, as if people are magnetically drawn to it. Nowadays philosophy goes hand in hand with mysticism, occultism and self-help psychologies of all kinds of varieties presenting themselves as “higher forms” of thinking or elevated forms of consciousness. Many kinds of shiny bling that drab people wear to pretend they are bigger and better than they really are. This is why I don’t go out to philosophical discussions that much. It sometimes quite scary to watch people being so overtaken by it. I sometimes tell myself that maybe it’s just a phase people go through and maybe once they fail to find the gold pot at the end of that rainbow they’ll wake up on their own. But fairy tales sell and sell well. People are not so eager to discover truth as they are to discover new hopes and fears.


K: the key point I wish to point out here is this idea of "self help psychologies of all kinds
of varieties"

what is the goal? I mean, what is the goal of human beings? is it not to become better?
and philosophy is one means as is psychology........ if the goal is to create
better human beings, then psychology is one means even if it is pop psychology.....

mysticsm and occultism and psychology are all means of becoming aware....
and that is the goal on the path to our becoming human........
mysticism and occultism are just steps along the way..... not steps I would
take, but steps nevertheless......as long as it is understood, that they are just
steps and not the final answers then mysticism and occultism is fine....
but they are not the final answers and not the final step......

I find in my own life I did follow the mysticism and occultism at one time,
that was just a tempory road and I moved on....because the road to being human
is a series of long roads sometime leading somewhere and sometimes not going
anywhere.....sometimes we get so emotionally invested we cannot let go of something...
but to move to the next step of becoming human.... we must leave one road
and take another and another and another.... many roads leads us to becoming
human.......

philosophical discussion is one road and mysticism is one road and occultism a road,
and even pop psychology is just another road.........

what road is your road?

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wind up with neither."
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Pandora » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:25 pm

Peter wrote: What is the goal?


The goals are different depending on the person, and understanding of what this “better” also differs from person to person. Do you think all people who attend, say, law school, have the same goals? I say no. Some want to learn the process of jurisprudence, some care about law and order, some want to be respected, and others just want to be rich. Same with philosophy. Different personal goals.
And who said that philosophy is synonymous with being a “better” person anyway? I don’t see how being a “better” person plays into philosophy. Better how and in reference to what? Sure, a philosophy professor living on college campus may think he’s a better person for spending his whole life reading and writing philosophical academic papers. Is he a better human being for knowing more philosophical theories? A new age hippie may think he is a better human being by believing he is part of eternal cosmic consciousness. Is he a better human being for it? What the hell is a “better human being” anyway? And does having “good” intentions only, qualify as being a good or better-human-being?
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Re: Why You Are Here

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:44 pm

Pandora wrote:Peter wrote: What is the goal?


The goals are different depending on the person, and understanding of what this “better” also differs from person to person. Do you think all people who attend, say, law school, have the same goals? I say no. Some want to learn the process of jurisprudence, some care about law and order, some want to be respected, and others just want to be rich. Same with philosophy. Different personal goals.
And who said that philosophy is synonymous with being a “better” person anyway? I don’t see how being a “better” person plays into philosophy. Better how and in reference to what? Sure, a philosophy professor living on college campus may think he’s a better person for spending his whole life reading and writing philosophical academic papers. Is he a better human being for knowing more philosophical theories? A new age hippie may think he is a better human being by believing he is part of eternal cosmic consciousness. Is he a better human being for it? What the hell is a “better human being” anyway? And does having “good” intentions only, qualify as being a good or better-human-being?


K: as I have to be at work in less then an hour... I'll shall be brief and fill in the
rest tomorrow....why do philosophy? to gain Knowledge.... ok, and what shall
we do with that knowledge? it is the Greeks that connected knowledge with being
better....the wise man is the knowledgable man and the one who is "better".....

At it's heart, Philososphy is about gaining knowledge and that knowledge
must do something or it is wasted time and effort.....

and this concept of "better"..... this is a value and philosophy is
best with values and not with facts....... better then what?
if we understand systems, better would be something that made
the system more efficient or more stable..... in our system,
something that is better.. is something that improves our current
system.... that is better... again, words like better and improve
have certain connotations......but are they worthy goals?
I believe so..... but to understand what better and improve is
will take more time then I have at the moment.......

I will leave you with this.... if not for the improvement of
human beings, what is the point of philosophy?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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