Are Bitcoins Real?

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Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:35 am

Are Bitcoins Real?

    Real:
    Adjective:
    1. true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent:
    2. existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious:
    3. being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary:

    Noun:
    the real.
    something that actually exists, as a particular quantity.

According to the above definition, Bitcoins are real, i.e. real enough to be exchanged for any goods from any willing seller who is willing to accept Bitcoins.

But the point is dynamic reality of Bitcoins are only real and objective based on intersubjective consensus among those who are willing to accept whatever it is value.
Thus my point, objective = intersubjectivity.

Another critical point I want to make is realness and objectivity of Bitcoins whilst abstract are the same as the realness and objectivity of any concrete thing. The difference is just a matter of degrees of reality.

My point;
Bitcoins are objectively real as conditioned by intersubjective consensus and such realness is the same as as the objective realness of any physical thing.

Agree?

Does anyone has any other philosophical takes to the above?
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:15 am

Prismatic567 wrote:Agree?

No.

Prismatic567 wrote:Does anyone has any other philosophical takes to the above?

If the thing that you are talking about is dependent upon, or comprised of, subjective belief, then it becomes real only when such belief is established. The vast majority of the universe doesn't depend upon belief in any way, thus is not "intersubjective", consensus is irrelevant.

The reason to believe such is the vast evidence that it existed before I believed it, thus belief cannot be the cause of it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:28 am

James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:Agree?

No.

Prismatic567 wrote:Does anyone has any other philosophical takes to the above?

If the thing that you are talking about is dependent upon, or comprised of, subjective belief, then it becomes real only when such belief is established. The vast majority of the universe doesn't depend upon belief in any way, thus is not "intersubjective", consensus is irrelevant.

The reason to believe such is the vast evidence that it existed before I believed it, thus belief cannot be the cause of it.
Bitcoins exist since the belief is established to the extent it has a value and exchanged for goods between seller and buyer at present.
So it is real at present.

The vast majority of the universe doesn't depend upon belief in any way, thus is not "intersubjective", consensus is irrelevant.
The vast majority of the universe is only real when cognized as justified true beliefs [JTB]. JTB is conditioned upon intersubjective consensus behind the scene. If not how else?
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:33 am

Another question in relation to the above.
Is the American Dollar real?

The American Dollar was once supported by a piece of gold of equivalent value in the Reserves.
But at present the American Dollar $ is no more supported by any gold equivalent.
The American Dollar at present is supported by beliefs and intersubjective consensus.

Views?
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:00 pm

Yes, Bitcoins is real but it isn't what most people think it is in that it is just electronic counterfeiting, money laundering, and greater fools money racket.

It's also an experimental trial run for when they role out eventually the real global singular electronic currency. It's amusing watching the value of Bitcoin these days go parabolic over the value of gold, I wonder how long that trend will continue.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:29 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Its the same as your bank account. Its just numbers, but people let you buy stuff with those numbers.
There isn't an actual stack of bills on your name. But your balance is real, in as far as it can "affect", certainly.
Yes my bank account is real, but it has to be backed by real dollars.
So the more pertinent question is 'are the dollars real.'
This is the same with the Statement of Account for one's balance of Bitcoins.

Thus,

The coins certainly exist technically, they are generated by laborious processes and unlike fiat money they are a there to be verified for anyone. The value attributed to them is largely a result of how well they function as a currency in an age of increased complexity where fiat money results in more and more inflation and poverty.
So you agree Bitcoins exist and they are real. They are also objective.

But the critical philosophical point here, the existence and reality of these Bitcoins are totally dependent of beliefs, faith, trust of the system, intersubjective consensus and nothing more.
Note this intersubjective consensus is subliminal, i.e. the people involved do not go about consciously and deliberately agree with each other. Somehow there is an invisible 'force' that compel and bind them toward enabling objectivity for these bitcoins.

My critical philosophical question is;
does anyone think these philosophical forces that is fundamental to Bitcoins [based on beliefs, faith and intersubjective consensus are the same as how we realize physical things exist and are real.
My answer is yes.

Agree?

I think the European Central Banks long standing policy to uphold negative interest rates, making it impossible for people to save money through banks, and even resulting in people having to pay to let the bank control their money, is also making people look for financial institutions/methods that promise some return on investment.

The ECB is like the anti-bank. It is destroying banking and stimulating alternatives. I don't know if its head Draghi is aware of this.
It not only the ECB but exist in other countries and banks as well. But that is not the only reason, there are others.
In any case, this economic point is not for the OP's epistemological philosophical issue.

My point is the essence of how Bitcoins and Dollars emerge, exists and are real is the same for the typical reality, e.g. physical things. This is the central point of contention between the Philosophical Realism versus the Philosophical Anti-Realism.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:47 am

Zero_Sum wrote:Yes, Bitcoins is real but it isn't what most people think it is in that it is just electronic counterfeiting, money laundering, and greater fools money racket.

It's also an experimental trial run for when they role out eventually the real global singular electronic currency. It's amusing watching the value of Bitcoin these days go parabolic over the value of gold, I wonder how long that trend will continue.
Noted you agree Bitcoins are real and they exist. It could have good intentions or it could be a scam but that is not my point.

Note my point;
The critical philosophical issue here is, the existence and reality of these Bitcoins are totally dependent of beliefs, faith, trust of the system, intersubjective consensus and nothing more. IF all these vanish so will the value of Bitcoins.

If the masses understand the existence and reality of Bitcoins are based on beliefs, faith, trust of the system, Emotions, intersubjective consensus and nothing more, then people will have the knowledge to be more wiser and carefully in investing and using Bitcoins.

Re God exists and is real:
I am also trying to raise awareness, this same fundamentals of making things [like bitcoins, Dollar, any paper currency] exist and real based on beliefs, faith, trust of the system, Emotions, intersubjective consensus and nothing more, is the same with the claim God exists and is real. Just as these flimsy things such as Bitcoins and Dollars are groundless other than beliefs, they and God alike are human-made [collectively and intersubjectively].
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:55 am

Prismatic567 wrote:The vast majority of the universe is only real when cognized as justified true beliefs [JTB]. JTB is conditioned upon intersubjective consensus behind the scene. If not how else?

That is merely social solipsism. You actually think that the universe didn't exist until Man popped out and looked around .. at what exactly? And from where did he come?


Prismatic567 wrote:Re God exists and is real:
I am also trying to raise awareness...

Yes. It is called Proselytizing Atheism.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:13 am

James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:The vast majority of the universe is only real when cognized as justified true beliefs [JTB]. JTB is conditioned upon intersubjective consensus behind the scene. If not how else?

That is merely social solipsism. You actually think that the universe didn't exist until Man popped out and looked around .. at what exactly? And from where did he come?
I have stated many times, solipsism is an incoherent theory.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/solipsis/#H7

If any theory that is nearer to solipsism, it is your kind of beliefs, i.e. Philosophical Realism.
What is 'real' to you is only based on processed-sense-data [canned] in your mind.
You will never ever directly cognize and realize what is supposedly real which is totally independent of your self. What is real to you is as follows;

wiki wrote:Realism (in philosophy) about a given object is the view that this object exists in reality independently of our conceptual scheme. In philosophical terms, these objects are ontologically independent of someone's conceptual scheme, perceptions, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc.


Note on the other hand, the Philosophical Anti-Realist like Kant and others asserted the self interacts and is entangled with the object/reality, not independent from the object and reality. How can this be solipsism if there is such a valid theory.

There are philosophical theories that assert the Universe did not "exist" before humans were around. This is based on very sophisticated philosophical arguments which in beyond your philosophical ken [narrow and shallow].
Note the terms used in this statement 'exist' 'before' 'after' 'Universe' are very complex terms with many philosophical views.
In your case, you are applying the Philosophical Realists' theories on these terms and the whole of such reality is not tenable.

The fact is "I AM" [alive, living, - empirical-rational] so is every one, but I am not accepting your cheap philosophical explanation of "I AM."
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:17 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:That is merely social solipsism. You actually think that the universe didn't exist until Man popped out and looked around .. at what exactly? And from where did he come?
I have stated many times, solipsism is an incoherent theory.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/solipsis/#H7

I didn't disagree.

Prismatic567 wrote:If any theory that is nearer to solipsism, it is your kind of beliefs, i.e. Philosophical Realism.
What is 'real' to you is only based on processed sense data in your mind.
You will never ever directly cognize and realize what is supposedly real which is totally independent of your self. What is real to you is as follows;

wiki wrote:Realism (in philosophy) about a given object is the view that this object exists in reality independently of our conceptual scheme. In philosophical terms, these objects are ontologically independent of someone's conceptual scheme, perceptions, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc.

So you are still clueless as to what "Realism and Solipsism" mean.
Wow.. =;


And you didn't disagree that the universe just popped into existence after Man popped out and looked around.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:24 am

James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:If any theory that is nearer to solipsism, it is your kind of beliefs, i.e. Philosophical Realism.
What is 'real' to you is only based on processed sense data in your mind.
You will never ever directly cognize and realize what is supposedly real which is totally independent of your self. What is real to you is as follows;

wiki wrote:Realism (in philosophy) about a given object is the view that this object exists in reality independently of our conceptual scheme. In philosophical terms, these objects are ontologically independent of someone's conceptual scheme, perceptions, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc.

So you are still clueless as to what "Realism and Solipsism" mean.
Wow.. =;
Where is your justifications and arguments?

And you didn't disagree that the universe just popped into existence after Man popped out and looked around.
Your double negatives is confusing. Note I posted in there,

    There are philosophical theories that assert the Universe did not "exist" before humans were around.

    This is based on very sophisticated philosophical arguments which in beyond your philosophical ken [narrow and shallow].
    Note the terms used in this statement 'exist' 'before' 'after' 'Universe' are very complex terms with many philosophical views.
    In your case, you are applying the Philosophical Realists' theories on these terms and the whole of such reality is not tenable.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:41 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
wiki wrote:Realism (in philosophy) about a given object is the view that this object exists in reality independently of our conceptual scheme. In philosophical terms, these objects are ontologically independent of someone's conceptual scheme, perceptions, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc.

So you are still clueless as to what "Realism and Solipsism" mean.
Wow.. =;
Where is your justifications and arguments?

You are giving the justification and arguments for us. The things that you quote are not saying what you seem to think they say.

Realism IS THE VIEW that there is an objective reality, independent of anyone's perceptions or beliefs. It is A VIEW, A BELIEF, A PERSPECTIVE, AN ONTOLOGICAL FOUNDATION.

It doesn't make the slightest difference whether anyone ever actually knows any truth about that reality. Realism is the BELIEF that it is there.

Prismatic567 wrote:
And you didn't disagree that the universe just popped into existence after Man popped out and looked around.
Your double negatives is confusing. Note I posted in there,

And your English could use some work.

Prismatic567 wrote:[list]There are philosophical theories that assert the Universe did not "exist" before humans were around.

This is based on very sophisticated philosophical arguments which in beyond your philosophical ken [narrow and shallow].

Haha. Yeah right. And there are theories that homosapian came from outer space. And that Jesus is an alien.

Prismatic567 wrote:Note the terms used in this statement 'exist' 'before' 'after' 'Universe' are very complex terms with many philosophical views.

Well, for the rest of us, "before" and "after" are pretty well defined and understood. It really took no special sophistication to learn about them (well ... not for the rest of us). And when it comes to the word "exist", you are seriously out of your league with me.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:59 am

James S Saint wrote:You are giving the justification and arguments for us. The things that you quote are not saying what you seem to think they say.

Realism IS THE VIEW that there is an objective reality, independent of anyone's perceptions or beliefs. It is A VIEW, A BELIEF, A PERSPECTIVE, AN ONTOLOGICAL FOUNDATION.

It doesn't make the slightest difference whether anyone ever actually knows any truth about that reality. Realism is the BELIEF that it is there.
Truth do not matter? What kind of philosophy are you doing.

Btw, do you understand what is meant by 'belief' in the philosophical sense?


Prismatic567 wrote:[list]There are philosophical theories that assert the Universe did not "exist" before humans were around.

This is based on very sophisticated philosophical arguments which in beyond your philosophical ken [narrow and shallow].

Haha. Yeah right. And there are theories that homosapian came from outer space. And that Jesus is an alien.
This is what I meant your philosophical knowledge is very shallow and narrow.
I suggest you read more extensively on philosophy.

Prismatic567 wrote:Note the terms used in this statement 'exist' 'before' 'after' 'Universe' are very complex terms with many philosophical views.

Well, for the rest of us, "before" and "after" are pretty well defined and understood. It really took no special sophistication to learn about them (well ... not for the rest of us). And when it comes to the word "exist", you are seriously out of your league with me.
Again,
this is what I meant your philosophical knowledge is very shallow and narrow.

Note we are discussing philosophy.
Note the philosophical ??? raised here,

Bertrand Russell wrote:Such questions are bewildering, and it is difficult to know that even the strangest hypotheses may not be true. Thus our familiar table, which has roused but the slightest thoughts in us hitherto, has become a problem full of surprising possibilities. The one thing we know about it is that it is not what it seems. Beyond this modest result, so far, we have the most complete liberty of conjecture. Leibniz tells us it is a community of souls: Berkeley tells us it is an idea in the mind of God; sober science, scarcely less wonderful, tells us it is a vast collection of electric charges in violent motion.

Among these surprising possibilities, doubt suggests that perhaps there is no table at all.

Philosophy, if it cannot answer so many questions as we could wish, has at least the power of asking questions which increase the interest of the world, and show the strangeness and wonder lying just below the surface even in the commonest things of daily life.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:05 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Valuing.

We value things into being.
First of all ourselves and each other, self-valuing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qzHx678Ro0

Crypto reflects a new wave of interaction, i.e. valuing.
Not too sure of your 'valuing.'

This is what is Philosophy of Value;

Value theory is a range of approaches to understanding how, why, and to what degree persons value things; whether the object or subject of valuing is a person, idea, object, or anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_theory


I take it the question of existence, reality and truth precede the question of value.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:23 pm

I did not give you permission to quote me.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:18 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:You are giving the justification and arguments for us. The things that you quote are not saying what you seem to think they say.

Realism IS THE VIEW that there is an objective reality, independent of anyone's perceptions or beliefs. It is A VIEW, A BELIEF, A PERSPECTIVE, AN ONTOLOGICAL FOUNDATION.

It doesn't make the slightest difference whether anyone ever actually knows any truth about that reality. Realism is the BELIEF that it is there.
Truth do not matter? What kind of philosophy are you doing.

Btw, do you understand what is meant by 'belief' in the philosophical sense?

What I "understand" is that you appear to actually comprehend nothing of what you read. And what I suggest is that you learn to read far, far better than you currently do before continuing to proselytize your confusions.

And you keep confusing your own mental vagueness and ambiguity for sophistication and depth, whereas far more clear minded people are way beyond that low cloud of yours, not at all "shallow".

Perhaps the Socratic method would be of help;
Merely ask a simple relevant question without explanation or preaching and wait for the replies. Use then the consensus of answers to your first question as a guide to what to ask next. If you cannot get a consensus or the answers are not going where you expected, perhaps ask a different question (or heaven forbid actually learn and change your mind). Continue such a procedure until the consensus agrees that your conclusion is unavoidable. Actually it is similar to Resolution Debating, although logic is not necessary for Socrates.

Everyone involved will be better off.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Pandora » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Image
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:35 pm

Pandora wrote:Image

LOL
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:59 pm

:lol:
Yeah, that was good. =D>
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:52 am

I think this one is in the long run possibly more valid as a selfvalung than Bitcoin.



It has the same codebase with some common sensical tweaking of the concept its network is inherently self-funding, and thus self-maintaining. Also it has instant payment with fees of fractions of a penny compared to Bitcoins 40/50 dollars.

"Dash is getting a higher usage vs speculation ratio than other cryptocurrencies."
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:56 am

They are building specialized hardware for propagating blocks.
"We can scale to Visa like transaction levels I think"
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:11 am

Also there is a workaroundtheblock where leveraged parties vote to pre approve a transaction so there can be instant payment. It is oriented on spending, making payments. So its meant to be an actual replacement of a credit card and bank account. Could go a long way because this is also a transparent company that makes it. Bitcoins founder is unknown, probably a team. They are now selling off their coins to Japanese housewives with mass advertisements. So long nobility. Dash and a few others appear more ethically clean.


Dash is real again as a coin as soon as it commands a team of people to develop hardware just to build Dash environment and cause it to proliferate. It is kind of its own god, which is what all self valuing is.
A new day, new dawn.../A grasshopper jumps and makes /The fresh dew scatter
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The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby unknowing » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:10 am

Before bitcoin, I wondered the same about paper money.

Came to realize no thing inherently possesses value. Except perhaps the soul of a being.

Money is no more than an agreement, almost faith based, comprised of hopes and fears, both of which are phantoms.

There are planets made of all diamonds, where the supply and demand for wedding rings goes out the window.

So mine this . . .

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Pandora » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:44 pm

Looks like digital money is the future

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... -coin.html
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Re: Are Bitcoins Real?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:35 am

Prismatic567 wrote:Are Bitcoins Real?

    Real:
    Adjective:
    1. true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent:
    2. existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious:
    3. being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary:

    Noun:
    the real.
    something that actually exists, as a particular quantity.

According to the above definition, Bitcoins are real, i.e. real enough to be exchanged for any goods from any willing seller who is willing to accept Bitcoins.

But the point is dynamic reality of Bitcoins are only real and objective based on intersubjective consensus among those who are willing to accept whatever it is value.
Thus my point, objective = intersubjectivity.

Another critical point I want to make is realness and objectivity of Bitcoins whilst abstract are the same as the realness and objectivity of any concrete thing. The difference is just a matter of degrees of reality.

My point;
Bitcoins are objectively real as conditioned by intersubjective consensus and such realness is the same as as the objective realness of any physical thing.

Agree?

Does anyone has any other philosophical takes to the above?
You just made an argument for the existence of God. It's not a good one, but, well, it sure is ironic.

Or perhaps this was your point. If it is meant to be a parody of theists, it is a poor one, since few theists are radical contructivists. Uccisore certainly is not one.
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