Reality vs Perception

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Re: Reality vs Perception

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:30 pm

encode_decode wrote:
ezak42 wrote:reality encompasses existence; existence encompasses reality

Where does that leave perception?


In the driver's seat. :evilfun:

No Drinking while driving! Perception must be sober. *Real* perception can be quite *sobering*.
Stay alert at all times.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Reality vs Perception

Postby encode_decode » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:26 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:In the driver's seat. :evilfun:

No Drinking while driving! Perception must be sober. *Real* perception can be quite *sobering*.
Stay alert at all times.

Hmmm . . . yes it could be said that perception is in the drivers seat. The drivers seat is in reality however and exists.

Reality vs Perception

:lol:
    Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
    - which is to say there is always meaning.

    (gib - 2017)

    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
    (Myself - 2017)
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    Meno 1

    Postby encode_decode » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:28 am

      Perhaps some senseless babbling on my part but I still think worthy of slight consideration. Trying to edge toward a truth.

      Try not to blink, as something might be missed :lol:

      I have been giving this Einstein/Eddington thing some thought. Eddington suggests that mathematics(language of the universe) was not there until we put it there which is to say that despite the compatibility of mathematics to the universe, the universe obviously displays itself differently to the symbols that we use to express reality.

      Differently but compatible . . .

      The thing that I have left out is that we are referring to the great architect of the universe being a mathematician. It has been suggested a few times in the media that mathematics is a universal language but this is a misinterpretation of what a language actually is, which is that which is composed of symbols/tokens.

      < << <<< >>> >> >

      I too am sure that the universe has memory - leading to a universal intelligence - this however I believe is highly mathematical in that flow is involved so that the memory is based on a dynamic of flow which means that the memories are stored in a unique way that we are not accustomed to. When 1 + 1 becomes 2 the 1's are still remembered if that makes sense. This requires some intuition too for that matter.

      Meno_ wrote:The idea of universal intelligence hinges on apparently on what such intelligence may comprise of.

      Exactly, what it may comprise of and I think it is safe to say that we are not talking about neurons in the way that we are accustomed to id est the neurons of the human brain. Gravity and the other forces then become the medium for communication from my current view and energy and matter become the medium of stored memories, and I would think that because I am not taking into consideration what I am not aware of.

      I am not aware of whether the human brain is actually the center of human intelligence but I am aware that it is able to store memories and memories are important to intelligence. Without memories there can not be an intelligence but there is still a flow within our consciousness, an invisible flow, a temporal flow, not so much like a river flows but a flow none the less showing that time is fluid when it comes to the mind. Hint: perhaps even the universe can experience déjà vu.

      Back to the language thing - the thing to be aware of >> is that one must read between the lines so to speak >> when trying to interpret even that which I have written here >> to get any sense of what I am saying. I think too that we must read between the mathematical lines >> to make any sense of a universal language.

      In the end intelligence can be represented with language and it need not be mathematical language - it need be interpretation.

      Interpretation can be a hidden language and it is a hidden thing that I am trying to point to - I have much more to say in another post.
        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
        - which is to say there is always meaning.

        (gib - 2017)

        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
        (Myself - 2017)
        User avatar
        encode_decode
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        Re: Reality vs Perception

        Postby encode_decode » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:28 pm

          I do believe that at some point Eddington was onto this hidden thing that I am referring to and he calls it convergence. When convergence takes place it is hidden away from perception for a time - I am speaking of convergence as coming together from different directions so as to eventually meet.

          Conceptual directions . . .

          Eddington said, unity and consistency are ideals to be reached by convergence and he regarded seeking(in religion and philosophy) as more important than finding. I would have to agree since there is more to be learnt along the way than what is to be learnt at the end - the end is only useful for reflection where a few missed concepts might be caught - I am not trying to exclude deep analytical thinking however, rather I am highlighting the importance of seeking.

          Eddington also says something similar to: the truth shines ahead as a beacon showing us the path.

          Despite some of Eddington's, what seems to be, confused thinking, it is safe to say that by presenting his ideas in a more clear format would permit us to filter out the more ambiguous thoughts he himself presented. I should start with his table-top paradox in that the everyday table-top is different to the scientific one, id est, the everyday table-top is seemingly solid and impenetrable and the scientific one is mostly composed of figuratively speaking, empty space - suggesting that there are two table-tops in this conceptual situation - components of two distinct worlds - neither world(or description) being the ultimate reality.

          Eddington views reality as ultimately spiritual and inscrutable.

          I will say for now that what reality and subconsciousness have in common is continuity . . .
          . . . whereas perception and consciousness appear not to be unbroken . . .

          :-k

          Conversely, I believe reality can be interpreted.
            Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

            It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
            (Anomaly654 - 2017)

            But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
            - which is to say there is always meaning.

            (gib - 2017)

            Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
            (Myself - 2017)
            User avatar
            encode_decode
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            Re: Reality vs Perception

            Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:22 pm

            encode_decode wrote:
            Arcturus Descending wrote:In the driver's seat. :evilfun:

            No Drinking while driving! Perception must be sober. *Real* perception can be quite *sobering*.
            Stay alert at all times.

            Hmmm . . . yes it could be said that perception is in the drivers seat. The drivers seat is in reality however and exists.

            Reality vs Perception

            :lol:


            Hello there,

            What I was saying is that it IS our very own individual perception which builds our reality ~ a reality which may or may not be built on what is "real" and "true".
            That is why perception is in the driver's seat.

            The drivers seat is in reality however and exists.


            Yes, perception exists but insofar as reality existing by way of one's individual perception, that would depend on whether or not one is *seeing* things as they actually are.
            SAPERE AUDE!


            If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


            What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

            Thomas Nagel


            I learn as I write!
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            Re: Reality vs Perception

            Postby encode_decode » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:05 am

              Arcturus Descending

              Interesting, I was not initially sure of how to answer you but I present a kind of answer for you here.

              Arcturus Descending wrote:What I was saying is that it IS our very own individual perception which builds our reality ~ a reality which may or may not be built on what is "real" and "true".
              That is why perception is in the driver's seat.

              Hmm, do you deny that at least some of actual reality makes it through and what we come to perceive is partially based on reality?

              I am saying that actual reality helps to build our individual reality . . .

              Arcturus Descending wrote:Yes, perception exists but insofar as reality existing by way of one's individual perception, that would depend on whether or not one is *seeing* things as they actually are.

              I would have to say that we are *seeing* at the very least partial representations of reality if not the whole of reality.

              I hope you see some logic here . . .
                Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                - which is to say there is always meaning.

                (gib - 2017)

                Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                (Myself - 2017)
                User avatar
                encode_decode
                Philosopher
                 
                Posts: 1049
                Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
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                Re: Reality vs Perception

                Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:11 pm

                encode_decode wrote:
                  Can we say that perception is a part of reality?

                  We are a part of reality and we perceive so perception is a part of reality.

                  I have frequently heard it contended that the truth isn't so easily defined, that every individual has his own particular view of reality. The suggestion is that in light of the fact that each of us sees the world through our own particular eyes, reality itself is distinct to each one of us.

                  The suggestion is that in light of the fact that each of us sees the world through our own particular eyes, reality itself changes from individual to individual.

                  While it's a fact that everybody sees reality in an unexpected way, reality does not care about our observations. Reality does not change to adjust to our perspectives; the truth is what it is. The truth is reality. The truth will be truth.

                  Reality, be that as it may, isn't generally a known, which is the place that an impression of reality comes in. While the truth is a settled factor in the condition of life, each view of the truth is a variable.

                  There is no competition between reality and perception, only between each individuals perception.

                  Each of us is a part of reality and so is our perception.


                  In so much that a view of reality is not really what we refer to as reality. Reality is what is viewed, what we interpret it as is perception. All the percepts of reality are in reality, of course. Where else could they be?
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                  Re: Reality vs Perception

                  Postby encode_decode » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:05 pm

                  WW_III_ANGRY wrote:In so much that a view of reality is not really what we refer to as reality. Reality is what is viewed, what we interpret it as is perception. All the percepts of reality are in reality, of course. Where else could they be?

                  If a percept is an object of perception then reality could be said to be in perception by way of interpretation but I am with you on this especially if reality is perceived falsely. Also percepts being the consequence of perception and perception being a near consequence of reality says that percepts are a near consequence of reality.
                    Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                    - which is to say there is always meaning.

                    (gib - 2017)

                    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                    (Myself - 2017)
                    User avatar
                    encode_decode
                    Philosopher
                     
                    Posts: 1049
                    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
                    Location: Metaspace

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