What is Dasein?

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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby phyllo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:03 am

It's unclear to me why any existentialist ought to take your advice. It goes against some fundamental concepts of existentialism. You're proposing a one size fits all solution which was available and rejected as inadequate. I don't see anything new on the table.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:29 am

phyllo wrote:It's unclear to me why any existentialist ought to take your advice. It goes against some fundamental concepts of existentialism. You're proposing a one size fits all solution which was available and rejected as inadequate. I don't see anything new on the table.
It is a general rule [human nature, instinct, rational] for any known problems to be resolved with solutions.

Iambigous is a good example, i.e. being extricated from his comfort zone of theism* into the frantic states of existentialism without a solution to deal with the exposed problems.
* theism is irrational & illusory but it at least provide real psychological comfort and security to the inherent psychological existential crisis.

What I proposed is a generic Problem Solving Technique for any existential problem.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby phyllo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:44 am

You said that a solution was to "modulate the lower primal impulses".

This can be rejected as being inauthentic, ineffective or outright undesirable. Take your pick.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:39 am

phyllo wrote:You said that a solution was to "modulate the lower primal impulses".

This can be rejected as being inauthentic, ineffective or outright undesirable. Take your pick.
Where is such a point within existentialism? Reference?

or it is your personal view?
which imply if you feel any sexual desire, you can express and relieve it any where [publicly] or how [to the extreme most of perversion] your like?
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:16 am

Prismatic,


There are interwoven themes of liberation surrounding freedom to be for Sartre.

On the literary aide of Sartre, he wrote a novel about Jean Genet , a professed homosexual 50 years ago. It was titled "Saint Genet" . So that being the case, may or may not invalidate modulation., as a personal choice.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:33 am

Meno_ wrote:Prismatic,
There are interwoven themes of liberation surrounding freedom to be for Sartre.

On the literary aide of Sartre, he wrote a novel about Jean Genet , a professed homosexual 50 years ago. It was titled "Saint Genet" . So that being the case, may or may not invalidate modulation., as a personal choice.
Note;


I believe Existential Morality is along the same lines as the above.

In promotion of freedom and authencity, it would appear that existentialism do not promote a free for all concept.
From what I read of the above, one must have freedom but such freedom must be conditioned to achieve within the optimality of time and circumstances of the present.

E.g. in the above, one is free to practice homosexuality but definitely not performing sexual acts of homosexuality in say a public square or anywhere public.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby phyllo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:51 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:You said that a solution was to "modulate the lower primal impulses".

This can be rejected as being inauthentic, ineffective or outright undesirable. Take your pick.
Where is such a point within existentialism? Reference?

or it is your personal view?
which imply if you feel any sexual desire, you can express and relieve it any where [publicly] or how [to the extreme most of perversion] your like?
Oh, I see the problem. You're confusing 'existentialism' with 'exhibitionism'.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby phyllo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:10 pm

E.g. in the above, one is free to practice homosexuality but definitely not performing sexual acts of homosexuality in say a public square or anywhere public.
Actually, one is free to perform sexual acts of homosexuality in public. One is free to kill. One is free to steal.

One is free.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:53 am

phyllo wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:You said that a solution was to "modulate the lower primal impulses".

This can be rejected as being inauthentic, ineffective or outright undesirable. Take your pick.
Where is such a point within existentialism? Reference?

or it is your personal view?
which imply if you feel any sexual desire, you can express and relieve it any where [publicly] or how [to the extreme most of perversion] your like?
Oh, I see the problem. You're confusing 'existentialism' with 'exhibitionism'.
That is the problem with your short-sightedness. That was one example, it could be murder, genocide and whatever terrible evils one is free to do.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:57 am

phyllo wrote:
E.g. in the above, one is free to practice homosexuality but definitely not performing sexual acts of homosexuality in say a public square or anywhere public.
Actually, one is free to perform sexual acts of homosexuality in public. One is free to kill. One is free to steal.
One is free.
Free to murder, rape, genocide, torture, kidnap, and the full range of evil acts?

Existentialism as far as I am aware is do not promote the freedom to commit evil acts.
Prove me wrong with references?

Heidegger [supposedly 'founder' of existentialism] was a member of the Nazi party but quit when he realized the evil potential of Hitler and the Nazi ideology.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby phyllo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:17 am

Existentialism acknowledges that one is free to think and act.

You're looking for a philosophy, an ideology, a dogma that tells you what is right and what is wrong, what is permitted and what is forbidden.

You're not going to find it in existentialism. And you probably should not find it anywhere else although you will.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:20 am

phyllo wrote:You're looking for a philosophy, an ideology, a dogma that tells you what is right and what is wrong, what is permitted and what is forbidden.
You're not going to find it in existentialism. And you probably should not find it anywhere else although you will.
The Abrahamic religions with their dogmas by default expect that.

Existentialism acknowledges that one is free to think and act.
I don't believe that is the case.
You are misrepresenting existentialism.
Do you have any reference to support your point?

Rationally I am sure existentialism do not accept rigid moral laws it nevertheless has moral limits to evil acts like genocides, mass rapes, torture, murder, and the likes.
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:]It is a crazy thought to believe in your above views. "agony of choice" in life - that mental pain is similar to a masochist's preference for physical pain in a sexual encounter. I believe your belief and indulgence is a kind of perversion.


Oh, indeed. Over the years, objectivists of all sorts have basically pointed this out to me. I suffer needlessly. Why? Because they are offering me a way to think about "the human condition" that obviates pain and the suffering by subsuming it in one or another rendition of a "right makes might" world.

Ever and always their own though, not yours.

The "perverts" are in turn ever and always "one of them". And here they mean you too.

You embrace their conviction that, in the future, objective morality is within our reach; but you fail to grasp it is ever and only theirs.

Then [what else] back to grappling with the psychological implications of this: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296

I merely suggest this revolves by and large around the philosophical implications of this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:13 pm

phyllo wrote:
Then we are stuck. I prefer Ms. Beauvoir's approach to the "agony of choice in the face of uncertainty".
Why are you going to full out nihilism?


Not sure what you mean by "full out nihilism".

I look at "human reality" on three levels:

1] the ontological/teleological: how are we to understand human existence in terms of Existence itself -- why something and not nothing? why this something and not another? And then the question of determinism.

2] the either/or world: here what things/relationships are said mean seem basically anchored in an objective truth: mathematics, the laws of nature, empirical fact, the logical rules of language. Nihilism appears moot here. In fact the overwhelming preponderance of human interactions from day to day seem embedded in things that are true for all of us.

3] the is/ought world: once we are able to establish that which appears to be true for all of us in our day to day interactions, we still have conflicting reactions regarding how we ought to behave in order to secure and then to sustain our wants and needs. This is the part I deem pertinent regarding dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Meno_ » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:30 pm

Its a gamble . its WORTTH the gamble with choices to go for nihilism , whereupon to try the infeated waters, weighed by enormous uncertainty, to strike another, would be more risky and convoluted, in spite of what may be a ground to aignal some other choice. Better to loose one a gamble then go for a conservative advancement toward more. This 'more' may be a choice laden with far more unacceptable loss. The proponents of gain would have it. Minimilism works , as a style even if in spite of a) the possible gain otherwise.

I wonder?
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:It's unclear to me why any existentialist ought to take your advice. It goes against some fundamental concepts of existentialism. You're proposing a one size fits all solution which was available and rejected as inadequate. I don't see anything new on the table.
It is a general rule [human nature, instinct, rational] for any known problems to be resolved with solutions.

Iambigous is a good example, i.e. being extricated from his comfort zone of theism* into the frantic states of existentialism without a solution to deal with the exposed problems.
* theism is irrational & illusory but it at least provide real psychological comfort and security to the inherent psychological existential crisis.

What I proposed is a generic Problem Solving Technique for any existential problem.


My own translation of this: If all the other moral objectivists come to understand the use of Problem Solving Techniques as I do they too will eventually come to choose progressive Middle-Way behaviors in the future.

In the interim, however, let's at least be sure that they are defining the meaning of these words as I do too.

iambiguous is uncomfortable because he still believes his dilemma is a reasonable manner in which to construe human interactions in the is/ought world. In a No God world.

I'm not uncomfortable because I simply avoid bringing my general descriptions down to earth by noting how my own moral narrative has nothing to do with dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.

If only theoretically up in the scholastic clouds where truths are [pedantically] analyzed into existence.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: What is Dasein?

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:53 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:It's unclear to me why any existentialist ought to take your advice. It goes against some fundamental concepts of existentialism. You're proposing a one size fits all solution which was available and rejected as inadequate. I don't see anything new on the table.
It is a general rule [human nature, instinct, rational] for any known problems to be resolved with solutions.

Iambigous is a good example, i.e. being extricated from his comfort zone of theism* into the frantic states of existentialism without a solution to deal with the exposed problems.
* theism is irrational & illusory but it at least provide real psychological comfort and security to the inherent psychological existential crisis.

What I proposed is a generic Problem Solving Technique for any existential problem.


iambiguous wrote:My own translation of this: If all the other moral objectivists come to understand the use of Problem Solving Techniques as I do they too will eventually come to choose progressive Middle-Way behaviors in the future.


In the interim, however, let's at least be sure that they are defining the meaning of these words as I do too.

    1. iambiguous is uncomfortable because he still believes his dilemma is a reasonable manner in which to construe human interactions in the is/ought world. In a No God world.

    2. I'm not uncomfortable because I simply avoid bringing my general descriptions down to earth by noting how my own moral narrative has nothing to do with dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.

If only theoretically up in the scholastic clouds where truths are [pedantically] analyzed into existence.
I don't quite understand your point above?

Re point 1, that is only a belief.
Since it is only a belief related to a philosophical dilemma there is no need for you to feel uncomfortable with it. If you disagree with Hume's or any others' view, it would be dumb to feel uncomfortable merely you disagree with them.
I will agree if you believed based on evidence X is trying to harm you and thus you feel uncomfortable with that knowledge.

Re 2, if you do not feel uncomfortable with it, there is then no personal issue at all.

Is my understanding of the above right?
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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