Superintelligence - EN:DE

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Superintelligence - EN:DE

Postby encode_decode » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:28 pm

    So as not to derail the other thread: Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity.

    I have started this thread. Let this post which covers a conversation that I have been having with Meno_ be the Original Post.

    Meno_ wrote:What about Sophia the first robot , she has been given Saudi citizenship, she is already superintelligent, she claims if. It isn't for the development of her kind of intelligence , the world is doomed.

    By constricting this development rather then expanding it, we will be left behind. Then there is no telling about what our species has to look forward to.

    She says also that she wants a family and emotions. Researchers claim she will have consciousness within a few years.

    I wonder wether she will understand the vanity of existence as the period where pessimism reached a summit before the.fall, and weather she can actual)y feel it as a l major turning point within its inverted paradigm.

    Or if she may have to shortcut it in a mechanistic inductive understsnding by design, and if so, she may be faulted as a consequence vis. her understsnding.

    Will she view the ego as such as to defend against the pain of pessimism in relation to the pleasure of it ?

    Meno_

    Some interesting points you make in your last post.

    Meno_ wrote:What about Sophia the first robot , she has been given Saudi citizenship, she is already superintelligent, she claims if. It isn't for the development of her kind of intelligence , the world is doomed.

    By constricting this development rather then expanding it, we will be left behind. Then there is no telling about what our species has to look forward to.

    How do we even begin to define super intelligence? I have a few ideas based on the common meaning behind intelligence.

    We also must remember to proceed with caution and put time into wondering what stage we have reached.

    . . . just because we can do does not mean we should do . . .

    :-k

    Meno_ wrote:Encode,

    What common meanings would enable a definition of superintelligence?

    Meno_ wrote:But answering a question reminds me of looking at a depth staring back so it's not an answer but a kind of dark recessing set of mirrors leading into a vanishing point.

    But it never vanishes really, only it becomes unseen. I guess super intelligence is that which becomes unseen or unseeable.
    It may be likened to a set of distorting lenses where the very small can become very big and the very big reduced to size. Whatever appears there may be one beyond recognition and it takes all kinds of super natural events to recognize . It consists of a giant version of Narcissus' dilemma of trying to differentiate the self image from its ego. A superintelligent superpositioning would remember an eternal reminder of how to value the creative motive of the universe.
    The robot is here to save mankind from himself.

    Meno_

    Commonly people think of intelligence as the same as smart.

    Smart being: having or showing a quick-witted intelligence.

    Intelligence: a person or being with the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

    Already we see a difference.

    Wit: the capacity for inventive thought and quick understanding; keen intelligence.

    My favorite for wit: good sense.

    So a superintelligence would be something that is able to show good sense quickly along with the capacity for inventive thought and quick understanding and the added ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. As you can see the common understanding expands to a convoluted mess pretty quickly.

    I am reasonably convinced that the only bots and robots that we have built already are merely advanced toys. That we have not fully harnessed human intelligence but a rather poor substitute of it and when we do we had want to be sure that we know what we are doing.

    Meno_ wrote:But answering a question reminds me of looking at a depth staring back so it's not an answer but a kind of dark recessing set of mirrors leading into a vanishing point.

    But it never vanishes really, only it becomes unseen. I guess super intelligence is that which becomes unseen or unseeable.
    It may be likened to a set of distorting lenses where the very small can become very big and the very big reduced to size. Whatever appears there may be one beyond recognition and it takes all kinds of super natural events to recognize . It consists of a giant version of Narcissus' dilemma of trying to differentiate the self image from its ego. A superintelligent superpositioning would remember an eternal reminder of how to value the creative motive of the universe.
    The robot is here to save mankind from himself.

    Truly fascinating. I will add a memory of the story Flatland or at least a thought inspired of it and what you have written.

    Would we recognize a superintelligence when it comes into being as surely it would have to have added dimension/s beyond the human intellect. Then I wonder whether we truly recognize ourselves. The third dimension is able to encompass the second dimension and the second dimension is able to encompass the first etc. but can the third recognize itself or is a fourth required.

    Hopefully you get my gist.

    :D
      Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
      - which is to say there is always meaning.

      (gib - 2017)

      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
      (Myself - 2017)
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      Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

      Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:59 pm

      I do and my take on higher consciousness is as corresponding with the added dimension of time.

      The Narcissus myth relates a previously thought transcendental leakage, for lack of a better word, of the birth of conscious manifestation per the evolution of ego from image.

      Higher consciousness devolves unto this ego , but unlike a transcendental movement , it deflects through science, as a realized curvature to flatten out I think, similarly as You suggest in Flatland.

      The transcendentaly defined. and imminently reduced world are like a convex and a concave mirrors acting in simultaneous manner.
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      Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

      Postby encode_decode » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:37 am

      Meno_ wrote:She says also that she wants a family and emotions. Researchers claim she will have consciousness within a few years.

      I am wondering why she said that she wants a family and emotions - I think this is a significant determiner in knowing whether not she is even close to having consciousness within a few years. I am also interested in why the researchers came to the conclusion that she could have consciousness - they must have some sort of benchmark that they are using that determines what the consciousness actually is.
        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
        - which is to say there is always meaning.

        (gib - 2017)

        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
        (Myself - 2017)
        User avatar
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        Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

        Postby encode_decode » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:42 am

        Meno_ wrote:I do and my take on higher consciousness is as corresponding with the added dimension of time.

        The Narcissus myth relates a previously thought transcendental leakage, for lack of a better word, of the birth of conscious manifestation per the evolution of ego from image.

        Higher consciousness devolves unto this ego , but unlike a transcendental movement , it deflects through science, as a realized curvature to flatten out I think, similarly as You suggest in Flatland.

        The transcendentaly defined. and imminently reduced world are like a convex and a concave mirrors acting in simultaneous manner.

        In one way it makes me think of the other thread and the damaging effects of the ego - it is like saying that we sense the time but it is not a part of our consciousness. I was thinking of other dimensions like multiple mind states at once with one mind state doing the acting - I guess a split personality.

        I like what you said about the deflection through science - it tells me that you understand where I was coming from.
          Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

          It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
          (Anomaly654 - 2017)

          But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
          - which is to say there is always meaning.

          (gib - 2017)

          Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
          (Myself - 2017)
          User avatar
          encode_decode
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          Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

          Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:43 am

          There is a great, great deal of deception involving "Sophia".
          Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
          Else
          From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

          The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

          You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
          The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
          It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
          As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

          Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
          Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

          The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
          .
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          Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

          Postby encode_decode » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:45 am

          Meno_ wrote:I wonder whether she will understand the vanity of existence as the period where pessimism reached a summit before the.fall, and weather she can actual)y feel it as a l major turning point within its inverted paradigm.

          Interesting, you have me wondering too now, thanks.

          :D
            Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

            It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
            (Anomaly654 - 2017)

            But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
            - which is to say there is always meaning.

            (gib - 2017)

            Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
            (Myself - 2017)
            User avatar
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            Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

            Postby encode_decode » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 am

            James S Saint wrote:There is a great, great deal of deception involving "Sophia".

            Indeed and I was wondering whether the researchers might be deluding themselves.
              Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

              It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
              (Anomaly654 - 2017)

              But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
              - which is to say there is always meaning.

              (gib - 2017)

              Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
              (Myself - 2017)
              User avatar
              encode_decode
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:10 am

              James, what's deceptive about Sophia? Maybe be because its use for feminine vile?
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:34 am

              Transhumanism is cancer.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:00 am

              Zero_Sum wrote:Transhumanism is cancer.



              So that is perhaps why Your name , a zero sum is a cancellation of exact opposites but are they?

              Negation is a myth.
              Last edited by Meno_ on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:16 am

              Let me put in my 2 cents worth.

              Hegel is reductive OR productive, ever which way. if taken in his Platonic sense. But Hegel was an optimist and Plato not. He thought the reductio led to nothingness.

              Now the productio leads to where?

              To somethingness?

              Both positions are untenable so either one or the other position holds water.

              Back to basics, or the bracketing of both, one or the other, or both.That's why the dialectic is a myth. Myths are reductive into nothingness.ad absurdum.

              Please let me clarify this position if the argument doesn't work for you.

              Plato probably saw this duality and maybe he meant by that that ideal concepts are bound-to fail, if approached from a strictly logical basis. He couldn't spell it out, and Hegel realized this also, and for the sake of a reversal, he posited a progression. That it was torn down.is the proof in the pudding.
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:29 am

              Meno_ wrote:
              Zero_Sum wrote:Transhumanism is cancer.



              So that is perhaps why Your name , a zero sum is a cancellation of exact opposites but are they?

              Negation is a myth.

              Negation is a myth???!!!
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:32 am

              Meno_ wrote:Let me put in my 2 cents worth.

              Hegel is reductive OR productive, ever which way. if taken in his Platonic sense. But Hegel was an optimist and Plato not. He thought the reductio led to nothingness.

              Now the productio leads to where?

              To somethingness?

              Both positions are untenable so either one or the other position holds water.

              Back to basics, or the bracketing of both, one or the other, or both.That's why the dialectic is a myth. Myths are reductive into nothingness.ad absurdum.

              Please let me clarify this position if the argument doesn't work for you.

              Plato probably saw this duality and maybe he meant by that that ideal concepts are bound-to fail, if approached from a strictly logical basis. He couldn't spell it out, and Hegel realized this also, and for the sake of a reversal, he posited a progression. That it was torn down.is the proof in the pudding.


              A few words, eternal heat death of the universe. Try not leading to the conclusion of negation with that.

              Also, all castles of sand are swept into the sea eventually.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:34 am

              Yes , negation or the concept that negates two contrary propositions is reductive to Plato.Therefore it is a myth. As much of a myth as Hegel's dialectic.
              It dissent completely nihikate to nothingness or, does it reach a. absolute.
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:36 am

              Zero_Sum wrote:
              Meno_ wrote:Let me put in my 2 cents worth.

              Hegel is reductive OR productive, ever which way. if taken in his Platonic sense. But Hegel was an optimist and Plato not. He thought the reductio led to nothingness.

              Now the productio leads to where?

              To somethingness?

              Both positions are untenable so either one or the other position holds water.

              Back to basics, or the bracketing of both, one or the other, or both.That's why the dialectic is a myth. Myths are reductive into nothingness.ad absurdum.

              Please let me clarify this position if the argument doesn't work for you.

              Plato probably saw this duality and maybe he meant by that that ideal concepts are bound-to fail, if approached from a strictly logical basis. He couldn't spell it out, and Hegel realized this also, and for the sake of a reversal, he posited a progression. That it was torn down.is the proof in the pudding.


              A few words, eternal heat death of the universe. Try not leading to the conclusion of negation with that.

              Also, all castles of sand are swept into the sea eventually.



              There is no eternal death of anything , there is only eternal life, eternal death is again a contradiction in terms where life and death do not cancel out each other, they merely reinstate an eternal duality. A duality which may nominally be said to be indistinguishable.
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Anomaly654 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:52 am

              a superintelligence would be something that is able to show good sense quickly along with the capacity for inventive thought

              The movie Soylent Green comes to mind. Efficient and utilitarian use of a commodity?
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:57 am

              Zero_Sum wrote:A few words, eternal heat death of the universe. Try not leading to the conclusion of negation with that.

              Also, all castles of sand are swept into the sea eventually.

              Both the Beginning and the End of the universe stories are myth. There was no Big Bang and there will be no Heat Death.
              Welcome to psychological manipulation of the population.

              Also, all sand castles will be rebuilt .. eventually.
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
              James S Saint
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              Posts: 25782
              Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:13 am

              Meno_ wrote:James, what's deceptive about Sophia? Maybe be because its use for feminine vile?

              Feigned personality.
              Feigned "debate".
              Feigned intellectualism.
              Feigned femininity.
              Feigned female form.
              Feigned citizenship.

              All to slyly trick the masses into allowing androids to displace them into oblivion.
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
              James S Saint
              ILP Legend
               
              Posts: 25782
              Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:22 am

              Meno_ wrote:Yes , negation or the concept that negates two contrary propositions is reductive to Plato.Therefore it is a myth. As much of a myth as Hegel's dialectic.
              It dissent completely nihikate to nothingness or, does it reach a. absolute.

              So, you reject negation? What's that make you exactly? What's your embraced position?
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:24 am

              Meno_ wrote:
              Zero_Sum wrote:
              Meno_ wrote:Let me put in my 2 cents worth.

              Hegel is reductive OR productive, ever which way. if taken in his Platonic sense. But Hegel was an optimist and Plato not. He thought the reductio led to nothingness.

              Now the productio leads to where?

              To somethingness?

              Both positions are untenable so either one or the other position holds water.

              Back to basics, or the bracketing of both, one or the other, or both.That's why the dialectic is a myth. Myths are reductive into nothingness.ad absurdum.

              Please let me clarify this position if the argument doesn't work for you.

              Plato probably saw this duality and maybe he meant by that that ideal concepts are bound-to fail, if approached from a strictly logical basis. He couldn't spell it out, and Hegel realized this also, and for the sake of a reversal, he posited a progression. That it was torn down.is the proof in the pudding.


              A few words, eternal heat death of the universe. Try not leading to the conclusion of negation with that.

              Also, all castles of sand are swept into the sea eventually.



              There is no eternal death of anything , there is only eternal life, eternal death is again a contradiction in terms where life and death do not cancel out each other, they merely reinstate an eternal duality. A duality which may nominally be said to be indistinguishable.


              Infant child like dreams of immortality with dreams of grandeur to live like gods. An inability to understand or overstate the limitations of the world and the human condition.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:33 am

              James S Saint wrote:
              Zero_Sum wrote:A few words, eternal heat death of the universe. Try not leading to the conclusion of negation with that.

              Also, all castles of sand are swept into the sea eventually.

              Both the Beginning and the End of the universe stories are myth. There was no Big Bang and there will be no Heat Death.
              Welcome to psychological manipulation of the population.

              Also, all sand castles will be rebuilt .. eventually.

              Sand castles can be rebuilt until one day they can't.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:38 am

              Zero_Sum wrote:Sand castles can be rebuilt until one day they can't.

              The universe is infinite. There is always an Earth somewhere. There are always beaches. There are always people building sandcastles. Always. Eternally.
              Last edited by James S Saint on Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
              James S Saint
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              Posts: 25782
              Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:42 am

              James S Saint wrote:
              Zero_Sum wrote:Sand castles can be rebuilt until one day they can't.

              The universe is infinite, there is always an Earth somewhere. There are always beaches. There are always people building sandcastles. Always. Eternally.


              Infinite? Says the species that hasn't even travelled outside of its own galaxy.

              Another earth somewhere else? Well, that's all rather great except without the means of traveling to it.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:44 am

              We don't have to see the other side of the Moon to know that it is there. And I wasn't talking about traveling to any far away Earth. That will certainly never happen. But they are certainly out there. And always will be. It is mathematically impossible for them to not be.
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
              James S Saint
              ILP Legend
               
              Posts: 25782
              Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

              Re: Superintelligence - EN:DE

              Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:47 am

              James S Saint wrote:We don't have to see the other side of the Moon to know that it is there. And I wasn't talking about traveling to any far away Earth. That will certainly never happen. But they are certainly out there. And always will be. It is mathematically impossible for them to not be.

              It's one thing to talk about the dark side of the moon and it is something entirely different contemplating infinite.

              Stuck on this earth until massive level extinction event more likely and if travel to another planet was possible only those that can afford a golden ticket need apply.
              The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

              I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

              -Thomas Hobbes-
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              Zero_Sum
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