AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:38 am

Jakob wrote:Logically, first a thing has to be real, then it can affect, unlike AO's presumed order, which is a heavy handed reversal of logic, demanding the conclusion to sufficiently prescribe the conditions.


What does it mean for a thing to be real?
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

Postby encode_decode » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:45 pm

Jakob wrote:AO (Affectance Ontology) holds that being is sufficiently defined as that which can be said to have any impact whatsoever. Being = Affectance.

VO (Value Ontology, or more accurately, self-valuing logic), holds that being is sufficiently defined as that which can be said to be consistently responsive in consistent terms.

To the thorough mind it will become instantly clear how subtle the difference between these positions is, and to the thoroughest mind, it will become clear that this difference points to a fundamental issue with cognition.

Both theories are, Ive found I need to stipulate, disciplines for the mind. They offer us disciplines that allow us to be consistent in what we say, about both existence in general and its particular instances.

So what value do either have in the grand scheme of things?

How do either attempt to help or hinder the human race?

What would be the reason given to study either or both?

Should there not be a reason given to begin with that motivates any given person to pursue either discipline?

Finally, how are we better off given that the world seems to function without either?
It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
(Anomaly654 - 2017)

But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
- which is to say there is always meaning.

(gib - 2017)

Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
(Myself - 2017)
User avatar
encode_decode
Thinker
 
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: Metaspace

Re: AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

Postby James S Saint » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:42 pm

encode_decode wrote:So what value do either have in the grand scheme of things?

How do either attempt to help or hinder the human race?

What would be the reason given to study either or both?

Should there not be a reason given to begin with that motivates any given person to pursue either discipline?

Finally, how are we better off given that the world seems to function without either?

The world was functioning before Science as well. The world must always be functioning prior to any advancement. That is why there could be no beginning. And why there shall be no end.

RM, and more specifically AO, are aimed at gaining a full ontological understanding of "God, Man, Me, and Reality", beyond Man's current level. RM:AO is the coup de grâce of the struggle to finally put all of the pieces into a single understanding, to finally see very clearly how and why it ALL works as it does.

The need to see such is only driven by Man's abuse of himself and all things as he lusts for an impossible and unneeded absolute control. RM:AO reveals what absolutely can and cannot be done, and in principle how to accomplish from the status quo to whatever the goal. Of course such would be very analytical and complex, although still much simpler than modern science would have it. RM:AO is for the very few serious thinkers not blinded by personal passions (pride, ego, fear, hatred,..).

Basically it is an extremely detailed map of principles concerning "how to get along with the universe" derived from "why the universe does what it does". It reveals the highest level of priority from which grand decisions can be made without losing one's way or getting lost in doubt or presumption within the maze of methods and moralities.

When fully grasped, it answers with certainty the age old question, "What should I/we do? And Why?" Thus ending unnecessary conflict, struggle, and suffering before it ever begins. Being so extremely comprehensive, RM:AO spews general principles and aphorisms concerning every topic. But unlike that great fiery ball in the sky, it is not merely an intensely bright light, but a floodlight of laser coherent illumination, lighting all terrains whether day or night.

As far as any one individual, each individual must step from where they are and thus have differing needs at different times even if intending the same goal.

A Contemporary philosophy

Tethered by reality;
    There is the ongoing cause of all that is.
    There is the order and chaos brought about by that cause.
    There is Life.
    There is the adversary to every life.
    And there is You.. an instance of life.
The rest is just noise

Amongst all the noise there are many entities great and small, all vying for attention and ultimate influence – “God wannabes”. Some are mindless formations propagating through their circumstances. Some are forms of life, temporarily struggling to survive, not really knowing why and certainly not how, but merely presuming a purpose, need, and desire. Most all merely adding their bit to the noise.

Don't sweat the Noise..

Within the noise, there is logic and understanding, a "firmament within the clouds". And with such understanding arises order and clarity, simplifying the burden upon the mind.

  • Let negative things be fleeting and small.
  • Expect and allow for positive things to accumulate more slowly through give and take within the noise.
  • Filter what comes to you by its relative value to what you are, not that for which you want.
  • Support that which supports you.
  • Match impedance with patience.
The list could go on and on.

The inherent purpose in all living things is to maintain and protect their inner harmony. Man learned that in order to do such requires that he obtain and maintain the harmony surrounding him. And from there, all of the insane efforts of the history of homosapiens sprang forth as he attempts threats and false hopes in an effort to control all things.

All joy is caused by an inner perception of progress toward that harmony and hope (thus the continual effort). Such is the very make of the deepest devoted love, survival, and that known as "Heaven". If you are looking for something to seek that has true meaning, seek that harmony both within and around you. It will be a full time occupation, don't worry about that. The Buddhists call it spiritual enlightenment, "bliss". But it is not a stagnate thing as many have been led to believe. Its momentum is what keeps and maintains it. Try it and you will see. Everything else you try will just be more noise upon yourself and others.


Finding the Balance – remaining stable

Self-harmony

Jun 19, 2012
Self-harmony is the ideal architecture within, without which there is no "I". That architecture involves both rules of behavior as well as the behavior itself. To establish more or better Self-harmony, it helps to get a measure of where you stand with respect to the ideal so that improvement direction can be discerned.

How a person treats his environment, the people and things immediately around him, is a reflection of how he is treating himself inside. If he disrespects others, interrupts them while they are talking, disrespects their space or possessions, or quickly judges or ignores them, he is doing that same thing within himself to various concerns, ideas, and parts of his own mind. If he is disorganized, dirty, careless with his own possessions, he is the same way with his thoughts. Thus simply look around and see how you are treating your immediate environment so as to get a measure of what is going on inside your own mind. You are only as harmonious within as how harmonious you are with your environment (given the chance to be).

Once you have an idea of where you stand with harmonizing your environment and being in harmony with it, you can probably quickly see how to improve it.

The greater influence upon the inside of you comes from the outside of you. Surround yourself with beauty and you can probably feel it within and will tend to begin being it, behaving in harmony with what you perceive.
.
.
.

There is no end to it. And there is no beginning, save from wherever you are.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25591
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:01 am

JSS wrote:How a person treats his environment, the people and things immediately around him, is a reflection of how he is treating himself inside. If he disrespects others, interrupts them while they are talking, disrespects their space or possessions, or quickly judges or ignores them, he is doing that same thing within himself to various concerns, ideas, and parts of his own mind. If he is disorganized, dirty, careless with his own possessions, he is the same way with his thoughts. Thus simply look around and see how you are treating your immediate environment so as to get a measure of what is going on inside your own mind. You are only as harmonious within as how harmonious you are with your environment (given the chance to be).


So if you kill a pig this means you are killing something within yourself?
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: AO vs VO: a friendly challenge

Postby encode_decode » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:24 pm

      Jakob?
      User avatar
      encode_decode
      Thinker
       
      Posts: 971
      Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
      Location: Metaspace

      Previous

      Return to Philosophy



      Who is online

      Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]