Is North Korea successful?

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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:24 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
In return for your enslavement and you must settle on the low quality that is offered.


In developed countries ... in return for your enslavement you must take anti depressant medicines. :lol:

At least we have access to them if needed. :evilfun:
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Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:25 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Kim Jong un doesn't respect the lives of his own citizens,.


For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housing, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.

WendyDarling wrote:Any country ran by a ruthless dictator who has no problem executing his own citizens for trivial offenses, does not deserve to have the power to execute the rest of the world for trivial offenses.
.


Under feudalism, disloyal to your lord is not some trivial offenses.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:28 pm

North Korea is making nuclear weapons not because Kim himself wants it, but because Kim and the power structure beneath Kim--the Workers' Party of Korea collectively want nuclear weapons, To make North Korea abandon nuclear weapons, America has to destroy the very power structure itself, and the only way to do that is for America to capture Pyongyang.

By capture, you mean flatten Pyongyang and all the other large cities?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:29 pm

For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housin, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.
So if they don't want to be part of the system, they can leave.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:31 pm

above us only sky wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Kim Jong un doesn't respect the lives of his own citizens,.


For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housing, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.

WendyDarling wrote:Any country ran by a ruthless dictator who has no problem executing his own citizens for trivial offenses, does not deserve to have the power to execute the rest of the world for trivial offenses.
.


Under feudalism, disloyal to your lord is not some trivial offenses.

I keep asking you if they have a choice but you have not answered my question.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:34 pm

Succumb or die, right? An inconvenience. :lol:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:38 pm

phyllo wrote:
For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housin, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.
So if they don't want to be part of the system, they can leave.

They will be shot at their border if they try to leave. It's one, maybe the only, country who holds their citizens hostage.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:48 pm

It's one, maybe the only, country who holds their citizens hostage.
It's certainly not the only country to do it.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:49 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
But if you were a white person you will never consider America as a 'tyranny' country, because after all you can vote and you have your freedom of speech, and the police officers will respect your personal rights.

White women and all women had less rights than black men in the USA if you read the history, so being white did not necessarily give everyone a golden pass as you so mistakenly believe.

Also, there have been many unfavored white people here in the USA since the country was founded. Many whites came to the USA as indentured servants, foregoing their rights. The Irish immigrants were ill-treated as well during one period of US history.


I 'm not saying that all whites like America, I 'm just use it as an example to demostrate that moral judgement is very very subjective.

Likewise, for a ordinary North Korean guy, if he more or less accepts those free welfare the state provides to him and his family and he can accept many other daily inconvenience of living in North Korea, he will not likely be disloyal to the state, for him, the state is not a tyranny, the state is at worst another daily inconvenience he will live with in his life. However, the state will only becomes a 'tyranny' if a guy in North Korea wants more than what the state can give to him (like the right to vote) , then the state will become a tyranny for him.


WendyDarling wrote:Public executions for trivial offenses is not tyranny? And it's not that he wants more than what the state can give him, for the state can give him much more, it's that the state doesn't want to give him enough food, proper water and shelter, access to adequate healthcare, etc., etc.

You would rather deny the hardships that the average folks in NK endure, insulting their humanity by trivializing hunger and fear as daily inconveniences? Where is your common sense? Where is your humanity?


Judgement like 'trivial offenses' is another very subjective Judgement, what you consider 'trivial offenses' under American system are not necessarily trivial in a feudalist society.

I have never said hunger is a daily inconvenience. And in my reply I use the word ' accept' meaning if a guy accepts what the system provides to him, he will not consider that system a 'tyranny'.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:55 pm

phyllo wrote:
It's one, maybe the only, country who holds their citizens hostage.
It's certainly not the only country to do it.


Ok, let's suppose if there is a massive hunger in North Korea and millions of North Koreans can freely flee their country and go to neighbor countries, will Japan, South Korea, Russia and China and America open its door to let millions of North Koreans in???

Have you ever heard of the Rohingya people?? :o :o
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:55 pm

Watching a foreign television show and carrying a common book are not crimes worthy of death, except in your subjective mind, but objectively, not in my mind.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:06 pm

above us only sky wrote:
phyllo wrote:
It's one, maybe the only, country who holds their citizens hostage.
It's certainly not the only country to do it.


Ok, let's suppose if there is a massive hunger in North Korea and millions of North Koreans can freely flee their country and go to neighbor countries, will Japan, South Korea, Russia and China and America open its door to let millions of North Koreans in???

Have you ever heard of the Rohingya people?? :o :o

Why is it only those countries and not all countries who may take them in? For North Koreans who wish to assimilate as citizens of other countries, why would there be problems? The Rohingya's refuse to assimilate into the nation in which they desire to be citizens, that's the problem.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:08 pm

Ok, let's suppose if there is a massive hunger in North Korea and millions of North Koreans can freely flee their country and go to neighbor countries, will Japan, South Korea, Russia and China and America open its door to let millions of North Koreans in???
I think you missed a fundamental point - the choices that the people have are :
actively support the regime, passively function within the regime, or be jailed or executed.

You make it sound like they are willingly signing a contract without coercion.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:09 pm

Phyllo,

Where else are citizens held hostage?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:12 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Watching a foreign television show and carrying a book are not crimes worthy of death, except in your subjective mind, but objectively, not in my mind.


First of all, let me get some very basic things right, in North Korea, if you watch a Russian or Chinese tv show and carrying a Russian or Chinese book, you will not be punished.

North Korea and South Korea, America and Japan are legally speaking still at war, because they have not signed any peace treaty yet, in North Korea, if you sing a song from those countries, there will be some serious punishment, because you are expressing loyalty to the enemy. and this is not special to North Korea,
If you are in the middle of the American civil war you live in the north but you sing the song of the south, you will be punished. If in the heat of McCarthyism you as an American was found reading a foreign book with a title like 'the essential writing of Karl Marx' or you were found singing a song named Moscow Nights, you will lose your job and be punished very, very seriously.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:19 pm

How does carrying a Bible in Chinese equate with a war crime deserving death?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:19 pm

The morality of the situation seems to mirror individual morality.

You're a big strong guy and you come upon a guy beating a woman and a child.

He tells you that it's his wife and his kid.

So you walk away because it's not your business to interfere in their marriage. She "signed a contract". The kid "signed a contract". They're getting free room and board.

Is that how it works or ought to work?

And one can up the ante : He buys a machine gun and he's beating his wife and kid.

Then you definitely don't interfere because someone might get hurt.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:24 pm

phyllo wrote:I think you missed a fundamental point - the choices that the people have are :
actively support the regime, passively function within the regime, or be jailed or executed.

You make it sound like they are willingly signing a contract without coercion.


I did not say they are willingly signing a contract without coercion, I simply said that the majority of ordinary people in North Korea will not revolt against the Kim family as long as their basic needs for living were provided by the North Korean feudalist cradle to grave welfare state.

And I merely use the concept of 'social contract' i in their ideology to expain why North Korea and Cuba can maintain itself for decades despite American sanction.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:33 pm

Other countries black market goods into sanctioned countries and that's why those sanctioned countries still exist. If the sanctions were strictly followed by all nations, the sanctioned countries would be decimated.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:34 pm

WendyDarling wrote:How does carrying a Bible in Chinese equate with a war crime deserving death?


In North Korea, bible is not allowed. Because in the ideology of that highly- developed feudalist system, the Kim family provides a cradle to grave welfare state to you, in exchange, you give the Kim family your 100% loyalty, if you believe in God, you will no longer give the Kim family your 100% loyalty, because you can only give your 100% loyalty to God. Therefore, believing in God is a serious crime in North Korea.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:56 pm

Along the lines of that 100% devotion to the Kim craziness mentality, families should be outlawed as well for people's loyalties are muttled with family devotions too. I've been reading some articles quoting NK defectors and the black market is huge in NK. Why is the black market huge?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:14 pm

I did not say they are willingly signing a contract without coercion, I simply said that the majority of ordinary people in North Korea will not revolt against the Kim family as long as their basic needs for living were provided by the North Korean feudalist cradle to grave welfare state.

And I merely use the concept of 'social contract' i in their ideology to expain why North Korea and Cuba can maintain itself for decades despite American sanction.
They don't revolt because it's practically impossible to organize - the secret police and informants are always watching. Disappearances, show trials and executions are a reminder what happens to dissidents.

And if they did organize, then they would have to face a large standing army without access to weapons.

Then there is the possibility that China would send troops across the border to prop up Kim if there was a successful revolt in progress.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:25 pm

If in the heat of McCarthyism you as an American was found reading a foreign book with a title like 'the essential writing of Karl Marx' or you were found singing a song named Moscow Nights, you will lose your job and be punished very, very seriously.
This is the idea that the repression in the USA is just as severe as in North Korea.

People will point to the the internment of Japanese during WW2 (which was a travesty) and make it seem as if it's the same as the Nazi concentration camp system or the Soviet gulag system. In fact, the scale and severity is completely different.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:55 am

WendyDarling wrote:
North Korea is making nuclear weapons not because Kim himself wants it, but because Kim and the power structure beneath Kim--the Workers' Party of Korea collectively want nuclear weapons, To make North Korea abandon nuclear weapons, America has to destroy the very power structure itself, and the only way to do that is for America to capture Pyongyang.

By capture, you mean flatten Pyongyang and all the other large cities?


By capturing Pyongyang , I mean if America does not want North Korea to have nuclear weapons they have to invade North Korea and capture Pyongyang and replace the political system with a new one, as they have done during Iraq war.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:59 am

phyllo wrote:
If in the heat of McCarthyism you as an American was found reading a foreign book with a title like 'the essential writing of Karl Marx' or you were found singing a song named Moscow Nights, you will lose your job and be punished very, very seriously.


This is the idea that the repression in the USA is just as severe as in North Korea.

People will point to the the internment of Japanese during WW2 (which was a travesty) and make it seem as if it's the same as the Nazi concentration camp system or the Soviet gulag system. In fact, the scale and severity is completely different.


I DID NOT say repression in the USA is just as severe as in North Korea. Do not claim that I said something yet in fact I did not say that.

I just said that in a certain period of American history under McCarthyism, there was a very crazy, very witch-hunt game for should-be-leftists. :o :o
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