Is North Korea successful?

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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:50 am

phyllo wrote:]They don't revolt because it's practically impossible to organize - the secret police and informants are always watching. Disappearances, show trials and executions are a reminder what happens to dissidents.

And if they did organize, then they would have to face a large standing army without access to weapons.

Then there is the possibility that China would send troops across the border to prop up Kim if there was a successful revolt in progress.


First of all, a regime will not collapse simply because a group of ordinary citizens go to street to protest.

A regime without any legitimacy, no matter what kind of regime it is, can not be maintained by the secret police and standing army ALONE for a long time. For example:
When people in the Soviet Union no longer have faith in a future communist Utopia, when people could not maintain their previous standard of living, Soviet Union collapsed almost over night, despite having a large standing arm and a KGB.

If you check history, you will find the reason:

When a political system is losing legitimacy rapidly, the people who take the first move is usually not ordinary citizens, most often those people are the very people who hold power. In order to save the system and maintain the politcal status of themselves, the power holders usually will launch some reforms, an example is the reforms of Mikhail Gorbachev.

But if those reforms do not work that well, then the old political structure will change: 3 groups will apears within the old rulling elite,

GROUP A wants to keep the system as much as possible and do some more reforms, it was headed by good old Mikhail Gorbachev.

GROUP B wants to take some action to get rid of the old systems all together and be the new rulling elite of a new system, GROUP B was headed by Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, a very senior official within the communist party at that time.

GROUP C is the group of opportunists , Vladimir Putin, a senior KGB officer at that time, was a member of this group.

When Gorbachev's reform failed, not all the people, but certainly more and more ordinary people want to get rid of the old system.

GROUP B took some action and allow those ordinary citizens to go to the street to protest, Nikolayevich Yeltsin, who actually controls the police department of Moscow at that time even went to the street and standing on the top of a red army tank to give a speech to urge those ordinary citizens to be more assertive !!! :o :o :o

When GROUP C realized that GROUP B was winning, GROUP C joint hands with GROUP B, and Vladimir Putin, a senior KGB officer, is the man who smiles in the end of the game.

Sure, in a country of secret police and large standing army, ordinary people CAN revolt UNDER CERTAIN circumstances, BUT they can never be the winner. :cry: :cry:
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby phyllo » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:32 am

To sum up : the general population of North Korea did not sign up for they have, but they can't leave or change the system through political action or open rebellion.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:02 am

phyllo wrote:To sum up : the general population of North Korea did not sign up for they have, but they can't leave or change the system through political action or open rebellion.


YES, if some of them do not like their own system, they can not change it much.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:39 am

WendyDarling wrote:
above us only sky wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Kim Jong un doesn't respect the lives of his own citizens,.


For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housing, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.

WendyDarling wrote:Any country ran by a ruthless dictator who has no problem executing his own citizens for trivial offenses, does not deserve to have the power to execute the rest of the world for trivial offenses.
.


Under feudalism, disloyal to your lord is not some trivial offenses.

I keep asking you if they have a choice but you have not answered my question.


They do not have a choice of whether or not to be born in North Korea, but they do have a choice of fleeing this country at their own risk.
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Re: Is North Korea successful?

Postby above us only sky » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:52 am

Check this link
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33007536

In North Korea, in exchange for all the welfare the state provides to its people, the people there have to be loyal to the Kim family, or at least not to show disloyalty.

Here is one of the songs that people in North Korea have to sing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akOHzA7mb50&list=PLvsW-rNXuuCYT4-MgXLqB6hnG5q6Nmm05
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