Rational and Emotional Responsibility

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Rational and Emotional Responsibility

Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:12 am

    We should be responsible for our emotions. Being responsible for our emotional state requires rationality.

    Robert C. Solomon wrote:"I didn't mean it; I didn't know what I was doing. I acted without thinking; I acted irrationally. I was emotionally upset." How often we hear that! And, without attempting a refutation, we sense its falsity, the hollow desperation that accompanies a feeble and halfhearted excuse. "I was emotionally upset"; that is the touchstone of a cop-out plea of momentary insanity.

    What do you think?

    I think if we are responsible and exercise caution when it comes to our own self serving interests that we would not have to lie our way out of situations. Happiness, gratefulness and justice are things that should drive us in life. These things to me require rationality based on our history and what we have learnt . . . analyzing the future more carefully instead of just assuming something is a good idea because we have a gut feeling about it.

    Or indeed lashing out just because we have no rational control over our emotional state . . .
    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
    - which is to say there is always meaning.

    (gib - 2017)

    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
    (Myself - 2017)
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    Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

    Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:52 am

    Happiness, gratefulness and justice are things that should drive us in life.

    Ah, but these are the linchpins of our selfishness, it's all about my happiness, my gratefulness (cater to me so I am thankful), and my justice without the inclusion of any one else, it's all about me!
    I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

    I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

    Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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    Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

    Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:58 am

      WendyDarling

      WendyDarling wrote:
      Happiness, gratefulness and justice are things that should drive us in life.

      Ah, but these are the linchpins of our selfishness, it's all about my happiness, my gratefulness (cater to me so I am thankful), and my justice without the inclusion of any one else, it's all about me!

      So don't take this the wrong way - sometimes I purpose to be brutal with my questioning without the intention to offend. Are you saying that we should not be happy, grateful and seek justice?

      8-[

      I don't believe you think it is all about you - am I correct?
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:03 am

      I don't personally, but many who live in their bubbles do.
      I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

      I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

      Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:07 am

      WendyDarling wrote:I don't personally, but many who live in their bubbles do.

      So we should be happy and grateful then?

      I agree most people are in a bubble of self serving interest - I think they are consuming who they are at the same time - or who they were meant to be.
      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
      - which is to say there is always meaning.

      (gib - 2017)

      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
      (Myself - 2017)
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:09 am

      Not at the expense of others and when I say that, I mean be responsibly happy and grateful that not you alone benefit from life.
      One is a lonely number. :(
      I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

      I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

      Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:15 am

      WendyDarling wrote:Not at the expense of others and when I say that, I mean be responsibly happy and grateful that not you alone benefit from life.
      One is a lonely number. :(

      Ah ha . . . yes I agree.

      What about justice? What are your brief thoughts on that?
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:23 am

      Justice is a tricky one. If everyone shared their goodness, we wouldn't need justice.
      I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

      I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

      Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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      Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

      Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:59 pm

        We should be responsible for our emotions. Being responsible for our emotional state requires rationality.

        Should we be responsible for our emotional state?
        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
        - which is to say there is always meaning.

        (gib - 2017)

        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
        (Myself - 2017)
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        Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

        Postby James S Saint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:09 pm

        encode_decode wrote:
          We should be responsible for our emotions. Being responsible for our emotional state requires rationality.

          Should we be responsible for our emotional state?

          So you are suggesting that we "should be" rational in our behavior? :-s
          Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
          Else
          From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

          The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

          You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
          The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
          It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
          As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

          Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
          Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

          The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
          .
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          Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

          Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:19 pm

          James S Saint wrote:So you are suggesting that we "should be" rational in our behavior? :-s

          I am suggesting that by being rational we can control our emotional state. This requires consistency of behavior.
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          Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

          Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:20 pm

          I should have added the bit about responsibility.
          It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
          (Anomaly654 - 2017)

          But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
          - which is to say there is always meaning.

          (gib - 2017)

          Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
          (Myself - 2017)
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          Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

          Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:22 pm

          We are responsible for our emotions and rationality. Socially and individually.
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          Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

          Postby James S Saint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:26 pm

          encode_decode wrote:
          James S Saint wrote:So you are suggesting that we "should be" rational in our behavior? :-s

          I am suggesting that by being rational we can control our emotional state. This requires consistency of behavior.

          Being rational IS being in "control" of our emoting.

          If not in control of one's emoting, one is not being rational. To be rational is to intentionally ration one's actions toward a chosen goal. But very many, especially women, dislike the notion that people should be rational. They sense a threat in having to stick to a plan, to commit. Many modern feminized males are similar.

          Being "responsible" means being "response-able". If one is not already rational, one is not response-able, but rather merely the consequence of environmentally controlled emoting - a programmed bit of social mass dust.
          Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
          Else
          From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

          The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

          You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
          The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
          It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
          As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

          Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
          Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

          The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
          .
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          Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

          Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:36 pm

            James

            OK - I like it - let me get back to you on that.

            I would also appreciate your thoughts on this post about wisdom.

            No obligation.
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              Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:47 pm

              WendyDarling wrote:
              Happiness, gratefulness and justice are things that should drive us in life.

              Ah, but these are the linchpins of our selfishness, it's all about my happiness, my gratefulness (cater to me so I am thankful), and my justice without the inclusion of any one else, it's all about me!


              Wendy,

              You seem to be looking at this in a topsy-turvy way. This is not necessarily a hedonist or narcissistic attitude. That would just depend on the individual.


              Why is a desire that we be happy considered selfishness? That's a fundamental necessity of all humans.
              Doesn't personal happiness contribute to our survival?
              What is wrong and selfish in that?
              Why do some commit suicide?

              How does pessimism and a woe-is-me attitude contribute to our survival?
              How does that even contribute to the happiness of those around us?
              The vampire-like person sucks out the very spirit, strength and happiness of another.


              Why is gratefulness or gratitude considered to be selfish?
              In what way can that kind of consciousness and realization (gratitude) help us? and others?
              Gratitude is capable of causing great joy. That in turn can be very contagious and affect the well-being of others.

              It's like Mercy

              The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
              It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
              Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
              It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:



              True justice, real justice, would by necessity extend out to others.

              How just is it to extend our unhappiness, our lack of gratitude and injustice on others?

              The Golden Rule ~ to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
              If we know the true value of happiness, gratefulness and justice and how we are affected/effected by those things, then we would have no problem adhering to the Golden Rule.
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


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              Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:48 pm

              ditto
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


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              Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:06 pm

              James wrote:

              But very many, especially women, dislike the notion that people should be rational.


              :lol:
              BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! :P

              So just what are you saying here? That women particularly enjoy being irrational and enjoy the irrationality of others, James?
              Are you saying that women actually ENJOY being irrational?
              They consciously go out of their way to be this way?
              Are you saying, for instance, that they enjoy the irrationality that comes with being abused by their husbands?


              Granted, there are times when All The World Becomes a Stage and we the players/the actors, men and women ALIKE, both the irrational and the rational, act out, express our selves, our beings, our human experiences, in the moments, in such tragic, absurd and comical ways.
              No one is immune to this.


              I hear it said that the natures of women are, for the most part, to be more feeling, to rule with their hearts. This is the way in which we are basically hard-wired.
              I kind of intuit though that there needs to be a middle path followed insofar as this goes.
              At the same time, there are circumstances/situations when the head needs to rule the heart and at other times, the heart needs to rule the head. And at others time, both need to be at an even keel with one another.

              I don't think that any poll taken could ever be real proof of WHAT gender is less rational - men or women.
              Take a look, not that you actually need to, but take a look at all of the so-called rational posts in here which have been created by men? lol
              Would you say that men enjoy being irrational, James?

              I wonder what the ratio is between the men who are in prisons for their irrationality and women for theirs. :-k

              It is all a process. Some who value reason above all things need to learn to live with more heart (which is human) and those who value feeling above all, need to learn to live with more reason (which is also human). I don't think that we were all given the same gifts and opportunities at birth.
              Too much of ANY one over the other leads to a mental unbalance
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


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              Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:44 pm

              encode_decode wrote:
              James S Saint wrote:So you are suggesting that we "should be" rational in our behavior? :-s

              I am suggesting that by being rational we can control our emotional state. This requires consistency of behavior.


              At all times? Is it possible that when someone is too rational, at all times, they may become highly irrational, given the right or ought I to say, wrong set of circumstances?

              Do you think that a highly rational person at times needs a breather from the rational - needs to allow him/her self at times to just let go and allow feeling to come into play?

              At the same time, I don't mean to suggest that a highly rational person is a non-feeling person.
              Can they be? I don't know.

              Oh, I can't forget my own mandate *to look to the individual*.
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


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              Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

              Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:05 pm

                Arcturus Descending

                Does one actually have to look happy on the outside to actually be happy on the inside?

                Arcturus Descending wrote:
                encode_decode wrote:
                James S Saint wrote:So you are suggesting that we "should be" rational in our behavior? :-s

                I am suggesting that by being rational we can control our emotional state. This requires consistency of behavior.


                At all times? Is it possible that when someone is too rational, at all times, they may become highly irrational, given the right or ought I to say, wrong set of circumstances?

                I believe more than ninety five percent of the time we can maintain a calm state through consistency of behavior. So maybe not all the time. But at no time do I see emotions as an excuse for insanity - even in the court room.

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Do you think that a highly rational person at times needs a breather from the rational - needs to allow him/her self at times to just let go and allow feeling to come into play?

                Yes I do as a matter of fact. I believe one should let there imagination run wild - this is healthy for invention and the arts too.

                Arcturus Descending wrote:At the same time, I don't mean to suggest that a highly rational person is a non-feeling person.
                Can they be? I don't know.

                That state left over when you believe that you are void of emotion I am certain is still an emotional state and you are in fact deluding yourself to believe that you could ever be void of emotion and still remain as you were meant to be - this could be argued - but what would you be arguing the case of? Perhaps your desire to be a robot - perhaps a much more complex form of life than a single celled organism devoid of emotion. Ask yourself then what is your life without emotion - without fear - without happiness - do you honestly think that emotion is not an advanced form of stimulus? You have to dig deep for the answers - not rely on what you have learnt but add to it.

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Oh, I can't forget my own mandate *to look to the individual*.

                What do you mean by this?
                It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                - which is to say there is always meaning.

                (gib - 2017)

                Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                (Myself - 2017)
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                Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

                Postby James S Saint » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:58 am

                Arcturus Descending wrote:James wrote:

                But very many, especially women, dislike the notion that people should be rational.


                :lol:
                BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! :P

                So just what are you saying here? That women particularly enjoy being irrational and enjoy the irrationality of others, James?
                Are you saying that women actually ENJOY being irrational?

                Most, yes; "I want what I want, when I wan't, no matter how irrational. If you want to be my man, control my desire" - the Eve Archetype.

                Arcturus Descending wrote:They consciously go out of their way to be this way?

                They need not go out of their way. Their way is irrationality already (although certainly not "ALL" women).

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Are you saying, for instance, that they enjoy the irrationality that comes with being abused by their husbands?

                Their irrationality IS the abuse of their husbands.
                8)


                ..{{not that males are saints}}.
                Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                Else
                From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                .
                James S Saint
                ILP Legend
                 
                Posts: 25573
                Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

                Postby encode_decode » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:44 am

                  WendyDarling

                  Justice is very tricky . . . very . . . I see where you are coming from - I really like that it is coming from the heart.

                  WendyDarling wrote:Justice is a tricky one. If everyone shared their goodness, we wouldn't need justice.

                  I wonder though - even in a perfect world whether we would not need justice.

                  = = = |< 0 >| = = =

                  If I may - I want to explore the dictionary from google . . .

                  1.
                    a) just behavior or treatment.
                    b) the quality of being fair and reasonable.
                    c) the administration of the law or authority in maintaining this.
                  2.
                    a judge or magistrate, in particular a judge of the Supreme Court of a country or state.

                  Should we not be our own administrator of our selves . . . to discipline ourselves
                  . . . in a fair and reasonable way . . . so as not to harm others
                  so as not to harm ourselves . . . to judge ourselves



                  ??? . . to be the magistrate in our own state of mind . . ???

                  Do unto others . . .
                  It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                  (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                  But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                  - which is to say there is always meaning.

                  (gib - 2017)

                  Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                  (Myself - 2017)
                  User avatar
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                  Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

                  Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:52 pm

                  encode_decode


                  Does one actually have to look happy on the outside to actually be happy on the inside?


                  No, of course not. It depends on the individual.
                  Some people smile and pretend to be happy when they actually are not. It's a mask they wear because they do not want people to feel them as it were in their vulnerability or perhaps they feel that no one would care anyway.

                  How happy is happy though, encode_decode? Is happiness ALSO inner serenity and stillness?
                  One does not need to look happy to be happy but then again, I think that something has to shine through on one's face. Not sure what it is though.
                  We are all different individuals though.


                  I am suggesting that by being rational we can control our emotional state. This requires consistency of behavior.


                  I like that word "suggesting". It means what you are saying is not set in stone and that you are open to discussion. I will have to keep that train of thought in mind.
                  I agree with you there too. But I also think that it can be like a "catch 22" no?
                  We have to be rational people in the first place in order to control our emotional state. I'm not sure that I expressed what I wanted to there.
                  Yes, I agree again. It does require consistency of behavior. It requires discipline/endurance/self-awareness in and out of the moment.
                  Doesn't it also require a mind which is usually reasonable and rational?
                  Can we get blood from a stone?


                  I believe more than ninety five percent of the time we can maintain a calm state through consistency of behavior.


                  How did you arrive at that percentage?
                  Again, I think that would depend on the individual. But you are probably thinking in terms of an individual who is basically calm, cool and collected usually. Not usually phased by something, not usually goes off when something triggers him or her...your basic rational, reasonable and logical man.
                  God where can i find one of those? lol

                  You may be correct but I'm just not sure of that 95% but how would I know anyway?

                  So maybe not all the time. But at no time do I see emotions as an excuse for insanity - even in the court room.


                  Hmmm...now that I am not sure of. I mean really. I'm not sure of that.
                  Wouldn't an insane person necessarily be out of their minds with uncontrollable emotion?

                  Arcturus Descending wrote:
                  Do you think that a highly rational person at times needs a breather from the rational - needs to allow him/her self at times to just let go and allow feeling to come into play?

                  Yes I do as a matter of fact. I believe one should let there imagination run wild - this is healthy for invention and the arts too.

                  In what other way might a highly rational man benefit from taking a breather from his rational logical mind?


                  Arcturus Descending
                  At the same time, I don't mean to suggest that a highly rational person is a non-feeling person. Can they be? I don't know.

                  That state left over when you believe that you are void of emotion I am certain is still an emotional state and you are in fact deluding yourself to believe that you could ever be void of emotion and still remain as you were meant to be - this could be argued - but what would you be arguing the case of?


                  Hmmm.. that's not an easy one for me. I don't think that anyone is ever devoid of emotion.
                  It always lies there, somewhere within. Maybe I'm speaking more of potential emotion as opposed to say kinetic lol emotion.
                  But if you are speaking about when a human being *comes down* from an emotional, a highly emotional experience, no matter what it is, that takes a while to dwindle down to a simple ripple within. I think that is different for everyone. I don't think that we can command our negative emotions to just up and leave.
                  When we are in an emotional state, then who is it that is the master and who is it that is the slave?
                  How does the slave eventually come to see who is the master? Does the master beat the seeing into the slave?
                  You tell me.

                  Would a highly rational person come down quicker than one who is not? Maybe not. Could it be because the highly rational person is not so equipped to handle his emotions. Okay, I'm ranting here. I'm losing myself.
                  I may not have answered your question in the way you meant it.


                  Perhaps your desire to be a robot -


                  No not really but I will say that there have been times when I could say, as Quasimoto said to that rock - "I wish I could have been made of stone like thee" and honestly come close to meaning it or almost meaning it. :cry:
                  Thankfully, I have no choice on the matter. Not really.

                  perhaps a much more complex form of life than a single celled organism devoid of emotion.


                  But are we not already such complex like forms, we humans?

                  Ask yourself then what is your life without emotion - without fear - without happiness - You have to dig deep for the answers - not rely on what you have learnt but add to it.


                  You are basically speaking to the choir here, encode_decode.
                  I am known by some to be quite the emotional person, more often that not but that might also depend on the circumstances. I have often times wished that I could be less so, not altogether so but less so.
                  But I would never opt to become like Data, never having or tasting a real human experience...just simply having that cerebral unexperience of what it is to be human.

                  do you honestly think that emotion is not an advanced form of stimulus?

                  I never thought of the word or the concept in terms of being an advanced form of stimulus.
                  I do think that evolution-wise, our emotions can be both beneficial and destructive.
                  But we cannot lose the one in order to lose the other. We have to learn to find that middle path, to balance out that teeter-totter ride.
                  We have to learn to value emotions without seeking that high flair of adrenaline which can happen or that soaring of joy and pleasure although that soaring of joy and pleasure comes to us. It is something which happens to us. Can we avoid it? No, not unless we give up our humanity. I think that our emotions can be what saves the world at times and at other times destroys it. I think I said that before.
                  I guess at some point we will see in which direction we go.



                  Arcturus Descending

                  Oh, I can't forget my own mandate *to look to the individual*.

                  What do you mean by this?


                  Just that, as I have said, we are not all peas in the same pod. We feel differently, we think differently, we behave differently, we worship differently, we have been raised differently. We are all unique in our own way. Sometimes we just need to search that out.
                  Why judge a whole group by the actions and thoughts of a few.
                  Why dress everyone with the same colored coat? We are all multitudinous in our individuality.
                  SAPERE AUDE!


                  If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                  What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                  Thomas Nagel


                  I learn as I write!
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                  Re: Rational and Emotional Responsibility

                  Postby encode_decode » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:05 pm

                    Arcturus Descending

                    I must say that I am really quite impressed by your post, I will be answering it properly soon - for now I owe you a response or two in another thread so I will make a comment on one element of your post.

                    Arcturus Descending wrote:Hmmm.. that's not an easy one for me. I don't think that anyone is ever devoid of emotion.

                    I agree - even for those who don't express it, emotion is still there. The only cases I can think of would involve serious disabilities.
                    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                    - which is to say there is always meaning.

                    (gib - 2017)

                    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                    (Myself - 2017)
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