Why do people have the desire to talk?

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Why do people have the desire to talk?

Postby encode_decode » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:14 pm

    Another way I could ask is: Why do you have the desire to talk?
      In recent times I have been asked on more than two occasions and in an around about way - what are the right questions to ask? After much contemplation my mind brought me back to a conversation I once had and I thought it would be better to first establish an answer or "pattern from answers" to the following question:

      Why do people have the desire to talk?

      With an answer or "pattern from answers" to this question in mind we can then possibly begin to establish a few ideas on what the right questions to ask are.

      When looking around the Internet for an answer you are to be met with disappointing results that deal with the practical nature of talking. He we are looking for more introspective answers that some sort of pattern can be built from.

      It has been suggested to me that at first it sounds like a practical question and that surely I have received all sorts of replies about the nature of communication, socializing as well as information exchange. It was also proposed that we skip this and assume I mean the desire to talk beyond the notion of exchanging information or to establish some social bond by the exchange.

      I was further advised that it is possible then that we're looking at - as well - excessive, meaningless, obsessive, compulsive forms; including of course social media exchanges with images and chats, tweets and all that.

      Someone I know wrote:Douglas Adams jokingly theorized that if human beings don't keep exercising their lips, their brains would start working. There's some truth in that since talking could very well, just by the overproduction of signifiers, be able to drown out the actual meaning or thought connected to the words. This would take one into the broader social theory that our society is overproducing reality and as such, is losing reality at the same pace. Signifier production (production of pure connection) here seen as part of the broader reality construction.

      Beyond theorizing, there are certainly various social passions and desires at play in most of our communications. My own idea on this would be: through talk or writ people are able to produce or maintain their self. And within a society obsessed with the notion -- and upkeep -- of a personal self and the freedoms related to that self, one needs to keep propagating it: self survival! If needed, indeed even through silly, void conversations. Including the act of tuning into those of others (like with radio or television). Even writing on a forum using philosophical topics will have that element of identity. At least I'm quite aware of producing not only words or ideas but also a self-concept by doing so.

      To reword some text given to me: Now with a vague question, we're bound to get vague or varying answers. Unless perhaps we were asking it in a Zen type of fashion in which case, potentially I or the ones replying to me will have to engage in a lot of talk, elaborations or even disagreements on the topic.

      It was additionally propounded that "Perhaps the desire to talk, deep down, is then related to this desire to question".

      Conversely . . . Underneath our ability to talk in the first place is our ability to structure information - it is in this information structure where the "pure question" comes into being. The pure question is related to the silent mind(one of them anyway) - the pure question is a question that is not structured by any natural human language but rather an innate code that resides among the mind/body(brain) conceivably including both the central nervous and peripheral nervous systems. In the case of a desire then - it is perhaps something coded into us or a learnt function passed on to us from someone or something else - perplexing . . .

      Returning psychotically to what prompted the question - being another question - what are the right questions to ask? - my immediate thoughts were those that do not yet have answers however this would also include the idea of false questions leading to false answers or something alike . . . even perhaps what are the wrong questions to ask? . . .


      So: Why do people have the desire to talk?

        Perchance by first understanding our own desires we can begin to derive correctness in question asking . . .
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        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

        Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:13 pm

        I personally have no desire to talk at all preferring writing and reading instead because they are less spontaneous and more intellectual
        And I therefore keep my lip movements to an absolute minimum which is not hard to do given that I am as reclusive as I can possibly be
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        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

        Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:11 pm

        encode_decode,

        So: Why do people have the desire to talk?




        No Man is an Island
        by ~~ John Donne


        No man is an island,
        Entire of itself;
        Every man is a piece of the continent,
        A part of the main.

        If a clod be washed away by the sea,
        Europe is the less,
        As well as if a promontory were:
        As well as if a manor of thy friend's
        Or of thine own were.

        Any man's death diminishes me,
        Because I am involved in mankind.
        And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
        It tolls for thee.


        No man is an island. We desire to talk because we are basically all social creatures, interconnected with one another though at times we may not realize this. It is through the talking, the sharing, that we sometimes come to know this for the first time, each time. The desire to talk, at times, the need to talk, is spiritually/emotionally speaking, as important as eating and drinking. It is nourishing for the human psyche. If we are unable in some ways to communicate, to *relate* to others, we can shrivel up and die. There is a great loneliness about that, I have found. We are not island.
        Then, there is talk and there is talk.

        There is the more intimate kind of sharing, which is more profound and meaningful and satisfying, which allows us silly humans to feel connected on a much deeper level, where people may see us at our core, a place where we actually *live* and breathe that is not shared with many. Without this, many go hungry and loneliness creeps in.

        lol I don't mean to be so urgent about it.

        Just as laughter soothes the savage beast, so does talking and sharing deeply.


        Perchance by first understanding our own desires we can begin to derive correctness in question asking .


        I intuit that at times it is the sharing, the intimacy, even the every day run-of-the-mill conversations which can bring us to a further understanding of what those desires are. I think that half of the time we do not even realize them.

        I do also agree with what you said above though. We can't ask the right questions if we do not know what we are *about* just as we cannot ask the right questions, philosophically speaking, in a forum, unless we have an idea of what IS and what we are looking for, to know.

        Did that make any sense?
        SAPERE AUDE!


        If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


        What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

        Thomas Nagel


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        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

        Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:26 pm

        surreptitious57

        surreptitious57 wrote:I personally have no desire to talk at all preferring writing and reading instead because they are less spontaneous and more intellectual
        And I therefore keep my lip movements to an absolute minimum which is not hard to do given that I am as reclusive as I can possibly be

        I will respond a little off topic - what activities do you engage in to keep your imagination healthy?
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        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

        Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:24 am

        I just read and learn as much as I can which suits me fine as these are solitary activities
        I have been doing it all of my life but only recently have started reading heavy subjects
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        Answer to Arcturus Descending - Part 1

        Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:58 am

          Arcturus Descending

          I like your answer. John Donne's meditation is a great touch - for indeed "No Man Is an Island".

          I have in my mind the personal desire to talk and as well the social desires to talk - with social acceptance we develop these new desires that are collective and sit next to our very own desires. Some of these desires that are social require belief to come into being - I think this is the case with a lot of religion and science.

          We desire the truth - and when we find something that makes sense to us we tend to lend it some belief - any institution is just a case of what makes the most sense to the most people. When we are not happy with any given institution that has become a big part of us we tend to look for answers elsewhere.

          Through talk or writ people are able to produce or maintain their self and sometimes a new institution is born . . .

          "We desire to talk because we are basically all social creatures, interconnected with one another though at times we may not realize this. It is through the talking, the sharing, that we sometimes come to know this for the first time, each time."

          We are indeed social creatures and our social desires are not our own - our desire to talk can be both our own and social - personal and social. When a person wants to know themselves they are trying to remove the social noise from their internal environment.

          The overproduction of reality was a problem that I was facing at a simpler level and I think that through communication we are somehow able to deconstruct these overproduction's and store these results mentally as some sort of reference/s that propagate both ways to what is being referenced and to the reference/s.

          "The desire to talk, at times, the need to talk, is spiritually/emotionally speaking, as important as eating and drinking."

          Our emotional state then becomes a type of "it all OK" or "its not all OK" flag. When all is OK then the white flag is raised and when all is not OK then the battle flag is raised. Talking becomes the medium to help each person ascertain their social state.

          "It is nourishing for the human psyche. If we are unable in some ways to communicate, to *relate* to others, we can shrivel up and die."

          So as we continue our exploration we encounter many other things that are related to our desire to talk. From here we start developing abilities to ask the right questions - the right questions are related to our own desire and what is socially acceptable to ask. When we ask the wrong question our ability "to *relate* to others" becomes diminished. It also follows that for the answers - if we do not offer answers when asked questions then our ability "to *relate* to others" becomes diminished.


          :-k
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            Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

            Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:01 am

            surreptitious57

            surreptitious57 wrote:I just read and learn as much as I can which suits me fine as these are solitary activities
            I have been doing it all of my life but only recently have started reading heavy subjects

            These solitary activities must help you to define yourself. What is your favorite heavy subject?
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            Answer to Arcturus Descending - Part 2

            Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:26 am

              Arcturus Descending

              "There is the more intimate kind of sharing, which is more profound and meaningful and satisfying, which allows us silly humans to feel connected on a much deeper level, where people may see us at our core, a place where we actually *live* and breathe that is not shared with many. Without this, many go hungry and loneliness creeps in."

              Our desire to talk is strongly related to our want of feeling connected. This connection then becomes a new topic of conversation - in what way do you like to feel connected?

              And within a society obsessed with the notion -- and upkeep -- of a personal self and the freedoms related to that self, one needs to keep propagating it: self survival! If needed, indeed even through silly, void conversations.

                "there is talk and there is talk"
              "I intuit that at times it is the sharing, the intimacy, even the every day run-of-the-mill conversations which can bring us to a further understanding of what those desires are. I think that half of the time we do not even realize them."

              I think you might be correct. I would say that we have many desires but our desire to talk is closer to the primordial. By bouncing topics of conversation off each other we are then able to come to realize our desires - providing we can filter out the noise of an overproduced social reality - in which case meditating on interactions is a useful tool to separate out ourselves from our social interaction.

              "We can't ask the right questions if we do not know what we are *about* just as we cannot ask the right questions, philosophically speaking, in a forum, unless we have an idea of what IS and what we are looking for, to know."

              "We" how ever is not limited to just "oneself" but a group or many groups of people. To feel complete as an individual is what most people are trying to achieve one way or the other. One of my friends once said to me "within each one of us is a little bit of dictator", immediately I laughed but I do see some truth in it - his perception of reality.

              Arcturus Descending wrote:Did that make any sense?

              More than you probably can guess - harmony on the other hand would rely on the pair of us coming to a complete understanding on the topic - given subjective reality we could never truly know whether that has been achieved or not. Is red the same to you as it is to me? How could we know?

              :D

              The simplest words spoken to make us feel connected: You are my friend. I understand. I get where you are coming from. et cetera.

              Never complete but hopefully sufficient.
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              Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

              Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:27 am

              I am defined by my social isolation and emotional detachment from other human
              beings and as a consequence of that I am as free and as open as I have ever been
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              Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

              Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:34 am

              surreptitious57

              surreptitious57 wrote:I am defined by my social isolation and emotional detachment from other human
              beings and as a consequence of that I am as free and as open as I have ever been

              Well I like it mainly because it somewhat presents the flip-side of the coin.

              Some of us enjoy the connection and some of us do not.

              :-k

              In essence some of us like to define ourselves through our social isolation and some of us like to define ourselves through our social connection.

              Emotional detachment on the other hand is a very useful tool even in a social situation - when applied correctly of course.
              Our emotional detachment can help us to maintain our sanity in certain situations.
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              Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

              Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:58 am

              Emotional detachment is more vital in this digital age where everyone has an opinion about everything all of the time
              I observe it and keep my participation to a minimum and refuse to be offended at anything that anyone says anymore
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              Why do people have the desire to talk? La deuxième partie .

              Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:32 am

                Part 2

                We seek to define for ourselves an identity - we separate ourselves whether in isolation or in connection. We confine ourselves to our own ideals and feel threatened or enlightened when these ideals come into question - we then desire to talk, argue and agree.

                Someone else I know wrote:Irrespective of what is considered ones outer objective vision, and inner subjective feelings, self is always attempting to break away from the power of earth's intellectual mentality to find the balance which will eliminate the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde personalities which continuously are at war with one another within the self for dominance.

                Self, then, is always seeking knowledge to break from the quicksand which pulls it downward. Communication then, from this POV, is seeking a ladder of confirmation which will allow one to step upward beyond the quicksand of human mind, into that realm of invisible fortitude where all human knowledge derive from. Confirmation is, therefore, one's own voice telling one "I knew this all the time, but had to hear it from the depth of my own Conscience." So, from this POV, people are talking to themselves for the wisdom to see beyond the rhetoric of words of others, which are only relative, but not true to the true 'meaning' of SELF (whatever either of these are).

                What I like about this kind of question is that the answers provide insight to answers from similar questions and by that for example; Why do people have the desire to think/learn/like/hate? Indeed why do people seek connection over isolation or vice versa?

                Someone else I know wrote:The world we live in is the world of our thoughts, and the universe of our thinking. The desire to talk is the need to expand Mother Earth's limited conjectures, in the temporary world of human eternality. What desire was there for anyone to speak to be born into this world? Should one find words, or language of need to be born, one has the answer to "Why do people have the desire to talk?"

                Most of the talking you'll hear is due to ignorance. Generally people are more so ignorant as they were when they were a teenager - going through that period where they thought they knew everything. Talking is just one of the ways in which people seek to quench desire, or satisfy longing and lack. It also serves as a form of ego propagation. Unfortunately we were not handed a manual for informing us of our true nature. So we make an exploration to discover our true nature. A part of this exploration is communication.

                If desire or aspiration was not present to bring you here to post that which is correct according to you, then what brought you here?

                Desiring to say what you are is not necessarily related to the ego - it is the experience of bringing forth, in words, the entirety of the causality of the moment (the truth) of your life or existence in this moment - having an approximate estimation on how it will affect the reader or hearer of your words - being aware of this estimation helps us to determine our next statement whether it be a question or not.

                Too strong an attachment to our desires can bring us much pain and suffering; "To deny the human condition of desire is foolish, but to consider it a permanent state is equally as foolish" and it is beneficial to address the experience of desire as it governs every aspect of our feeling (of attachment) to our world and social situation or lack there of.

                :-k
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                  Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                  Postby encode_decode » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:05 am

                    Part Three

                    If we are to contemplate the worldly life then it is here that our desires lead us to much pain and suffering - usually it is because we feel we need something when in fact we can live without it. Not rocket science but then neither is living happily.

                    Hakuin Ekaku wrote:Meditation in the midst of activity is a thousand times superior to meditation in stillness.

                    "Sometimes our experiences of enlightenment seem to come at unexpected moments, often when walking or reading."

                    encode_decode wrote:Too strong an attachment to our desires can bring us much pain and suffering; "To deny the human condition of desire is foolish, but to consider it a permanent state is equally as foolish" and it is beneficial to address the experience of desire as it governs every aspect of our feeling (of attachment) to our world and social situation or lack there of.

                    Gloominary speaks of Essentialism:

                    Gloominary wrote:The most valuable things in life are hard physical needs, the second most valuable things are soft psychological needs, the least valuable things are wants.

                    To deny life's essentials is also foolish as they are truly the most valuable things.

                    I speak of Confinism:

                    Confinism is: "the philosophy of dealing with our limits". It is a measure of our maturity . . .

                    Our limits are the very reason why we feel like asking questions that begin with the words:

                      Why . . . ? . . . How . . . ? . . . When . . . ? . . . What . . . ? . . . et cetera . . . ?
                    Confinism is the very reason why we ask questions at all.
                    The reason we ask questions is because we do not know the answers.
                    If we knew the answers then there would be no reason to ask the questions that we ask.


                    In many cases it comes down to knowing when to let go . . . when and how to let go of answers that we may never receive . . . or in fact never need . . .

                    Why? Because sometimes we do not really need the answers - all we really need is the essentials . . . however the brain is able to help us eat and drink and breath . . .

                    The brain also helps us determine what is poisonous and what is not - so from the essentials then there is some soft psychological needs . . .

                    John Donne wrote:No man is an island,
                    Entire of itself;
                    Every man is a piece of the continent,
                    A part of the main.

                    We can read from a book what is poisonous - the same information used to be given to us by tribal elders - and now we have the internet - yipee.

                    A small leap of imagination tells us that we need others to survive - to be born - to learn and to live - through communication to hopefully be happy . . .

                    :-k

                    The desire to talk or communicate then most certainly comes from our tribal/pack/social nature of looking out for each other - to flourish - our desire to talk was built into us a long long time ago - when you think about it many flock/pack creatures communicate essentials to each other like - DANGER/FOOD respectively - some sheep make a noise to find out where other sheep are.

                    surreptitious57 wrote:Emotional detachment is more vital in this digital age where everyone has an opinion about everything all of the time
                    I observe it and keep my participation to a minimum and refuse to be offended at anything that anyone says anymore

                    Note the use of the word "vital". If we attach ourselves too strongly to our desires then our vitality is diminished. Emotions are tricky little beasts . . .

                    Wikipedia wrote:Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679) asserted that human desire is the fundamental motivation of all human action.

                    The same Wikipedia article that I quoted also contains the following text: "While desires are often classified as emotions by laypersons, psychologists often describe desires as different from emotions; psychologists tend to argue that desires arise from bodily structures, such as the stomach's need for food, whereas emotions arise from a person's mental state."

                    The same Wikipedia article that I quoted also asserts that: "Desire is a sense of longing or hoping for a person, object, or outcome. The same sense is expressed by emotions such as "craving"."

                    The question is whether "desire" and "craving" are fundamentally the same thing.

                    The paradoxical features of reality are what makes existence interesting.

                      [-o<
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                      Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                      Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:14 pm

                      I contend that first there was emotion that our emotions serve as the foundation of our thoughts, then our thoughts spring up out of these baseline emotions and meld together these emotions and thoughts to become refined into actions, pursuits, such as our will, our desire or craving. Is this all a closed circuit loop though that becomes almost indiscernible for scientists to see that our will is intricately forged by our emotions? Are we beings anything beyond, separate, from our emotions? Or do our emotions define our essences which we project via this human form?

                      Aaron,
                      Am I veering off topic? As for the OP question, no being can survive solitary confinement. As a being I need other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless.
                      I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                      I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                      Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                      Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                      Postby encode_decode » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:17 pm

                        WendyDarling

                        Even though moderately detailed, I feel my response does not do your post the justice it deserves.

                        I genuinely respect your feedback and find synergy with it . . .

                        What we are, is at the very least partially defined by the concept of essence, that you have brought into this discussion. The emotions certainly help to define this essence. I have often wondered whether we can feel our true essence like that of our spirit - it is like we have a sense of it being there.

                        WendyDarling wrote:I contend that first there was emotion that our emotions serve as the foundation of our thoughts, then our thoughts spring up out of these baseline emotions and meld together these emotions and thoughts to become refined into actions, pursuits, such as our will, our desire or craving.

                        That is a whole new direction for me to think in, thank you. Until now I have been treating things in a logic first way with a theory that logic and emotions are somehow equal. This makes sense to me given that instinct and intuition are coming into play here.

                        WendyDarling wrote:Is this all a closed circuit loop though that becomes almost indiscernible for scientists to see that our will is intricately forged by our emotions?

                        I will pursue this line of thought more thoroughly. My thoughts in the last 17 years is that science has been unintentionally trying to strip us of our essence/spirit. I am going to make a more thoughtful response in the not too distant future.

                        WendyDarling wrote:Are we beings anything beyond, separate, from our emotions?

                        I don't think we are separate from our emotions but I do wonder if there is more to us than we are willing to admit.

                        WendyDarling wrote:Or do our emotions define our essences which we project via this human form?

                        I like the use of the term essence - I would have to exercise at least two lines of thought here. The emotions are proving harder to grapple with than logic. While I contemplate this I am going to consider very thoughtfully the idea of essence; one of the clearer things here is that emotions help shape our personality which I believe is one of the facets that leads to our personal identity(or our self-concept).

                        WendyDarling wrote:Am I veering off topic?

                        No you are not veering off topic. I would say you are right on topic - we are covering some uncharted territory here.

                        WendyDarling wrote:As for the OP question, no being can survive solitary confinement.

                        I believe this to be correct. Being is something more than just survival. A machine can survive until it is worn out and/or unable to be powered but for us there is more. Of course we wear out too but we are socially self sustaining; I mean that without each other we would not be able to be born and navigate the treacherous waters of life - here we are talking beyond the physical essentials too.

                        WendyDarling wrote:As a being I need other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless.

                        Exactly . . . Do you like how a lot of people try to dodge this? I am being sarcastically rhetorical. Being alone is terrifying - for me more terrifying than the threat of physical harm from a dangerous wild creature. At least having a dangerous wild creature to evade would give me the purpose of evasion.

                        Let me be off topic for a small but significant moment:

                          Existence is cut like a gemstone . . .

                          . . . in that it is multifaceted . . .

                          . . . Love is the most important facet of our existence . . .

                        Humanity's true face should be one of love.

                        :-k
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                        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                        Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:57 pm

                        I know me and my essence has not changed since I can remember. I have tempered my essence and my behaviors inspired by it to be fair to others, to not shortchange anyone who comes into my sphere of being, but that is a whole lot of work, sharing warmth is harder than sharing the cold.

                        At the top of my hierarchy is peace...

                        peace = love & joy blended in equal amounts...

                        however, all facets of emotion are necessary for discernment of one from another

                        One of the old moderators here, named Abstract, wrote: "Love is the gravity of the soul." Beautiful, isn't it?
                        I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                        I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                        Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                        Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                        Postby encode_decode » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:21 pm

                          WendyDarling

                          WendyDarling wrote:I know me and my essence has not changed since I can remember. I have tempered my essence and my behaviors inspired by it to be fair to others, to not shortchange anyone who comes into my sphere of being, but that is a whole lot of work, sharing warmth is harder than sharing the cold.

                          I wish I could pinpoint my own essence like you have. I agree that we should be fair to others. Sharing warmth is especially difficult these days.

                          WendyDarling wrote:At the top of my hierarchy is peace...

                          peace = love & joy blended in equal amounts...

                          I sense that your hierarchy is superior to my own.

                          WendyDarling wrote:however, all facets of emotion are necessary for discernment of one from another

                          Precisely.

                          WendyDarling wrote:One of the old moderators here, named Abstract, wrote: "Love is the gravity of the soul." Beautiful, isn't it?

                          Metaphorically speaking: Absolutely!

                          :D
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                          Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                          Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:26 pm

                          Ah Aaron, still looking forward to the rest of your more in-depth thoughts...no rush though...newness takes time to cover.
                          I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                          I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                          Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                          Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                          Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:22 am

                            Part 4

                            We can get so wrapped up in different conversations and communications that we forget why we started half of them in the first place. At this point our self-concept becomes diluted amidst the pool of social activity. We feel connected but we feel without self. It would seem that a person who understands the desire to communicate is more able to understand the self and the self's need for connection thus maintaining self-concept and being able to avoid the corresponding emotional suffering associated with fear and anger of being rejected and in turn becoming despondent.

                            Desire can be likened to bondage or being a slave - this bondage takes place when our self becomes diluted among the social matrix of our own semi distinct reality. Just as maintaining a connection feels important so does knowing our place in the thick of the network and thus understanding our very own true nature. Do we only live for ourselves or are we selfless - I suggest there is health to be found in between - being connected and being self. To not become ruined by our personal or social desires but rather enhanced.

                            If our desire to communicate is in line with the true essence of our being instead of some illusion that only swings one way or the other as has become evident in many philosophies of the past then true happiness is evidently in requirement of some ongoing maintenance - when you seek the easy way out, whatever that may be then it could be a sign that your mind is in fact just at disease or in a state of disease.

                            A part of the reason we desire to talk/communicate is because it helps to bring us purpose and it helps us to maintain that purpose - we are able to become ourselves and a member of the larger group of selves. We are neither truly distinct nor fully connected - quite likely the real mission is: how to work out why this needs to be the case.

                            :-k
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                            Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                            Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:07 am

                            encode_decode wrote:If our desire to communicate is in line with the true essence of our being instead of some illusion that only swings one way or the other as has become evident in many philosophies of the past then true happiness is evidently in requirement of some ongoing maintenance - when you seek the easy way out, whatever that may be then it could be a sign that your mind is in fact just at disease or in a state of disease.

                            A part of the reason we desire to talk/communicate is because it helps to bring us purpose and it helps us to maintain that purpose - we are able to become ourselves and a member of the larger group of selves. We are neither truly distinct nor fully connected - quite likely the real mission is: how to work out why this needs to be the case.

                            :-k

                            One thing that you can know in every case is that whatever the desire, it is the result of a perception of hope and/or threat. And since every individual perceives at least a little differently, his incentive will be at least slightly different than others.

                            In the case of the desire to commune with others (by whichever means), there would be a perception of hope instigating the desire. That perception could be any number of things and a little different for every person:
                              • companionship
                              • useful information
                              • ego support
                              • yearning for a life
                              • social influence
                              • sense of social acceptance
                                .
                                .
                                .
                            Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                            Else
                            From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                            The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                            You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                            The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                            It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                            As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                            Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                            Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                            The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                            .
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                            Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                            Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:12 am

                              James

                              I want to expand on what you posted a little . . .

                              One thing that you can know in every case is that whatever the desire, it is the result of a perception of hope and/or threat.

                              I agree and let me tell you why I agree. The desire or craving or whatever you want to call it is more or less rudimentary to the perception of hope and/or threat. When not at ease in the social group then it is very likely a degree of hope and/or threat - I know when I sometimes have a hope in mind I enter a state of anticipation which is generally not settled until the event either takes places or I know for sure it wont.

                              And since every individual perceives at least a little differently, his incentive will be at least slightly different than others.

                              His/her desire is going to be at least slightly different because of the incentive/stimulus again pointing to more or less elementary aspects of desire or craving. In this case I present a more negative illustration in contrast to my last - that when one is perceiving a threat, his or her stimulus is reactive to the ultimatum.

                              Settlement then or resolution is a neutral state that is void of hope or threat - leading us to do or not to do something with the previous threat or hope in mind.

                              That would be my suggestive order.

                              I will approach each item in your bullet list with a separate post: Companionship is much the same as society. The affirmation of the *want* to belong is related back to what Thomas Hobbes said asserting that *human desire* is the fundamental motivation of all human action. Companionship then I think is for the reason that WendyD gave: As a being I need other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless.

                              I will change that to fit the word desire: As a being I desire other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless.

                              This presents a higher construct than mere survival . . .
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                              Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                              Postby encode_decode » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:53 am

                                Useful Information

                                Small Talk
                                Useful information to me would be information that has some value, this would become a complex issue from what I can determine. I get useful information from people when I engage in small talk, it can show that they are comfortable to be around me - I dare say the converse is possible by my giving small talk to show that I am comfortable around them.

                                By Analogy
                                Then there is information via analogy - just by interacting with others on their points of view I have been able to apply the received information by analogy to something else of value to me - I mean something technically unrelated. You don't even have to be aware of the analogous connection as long as you are absorbing the information given. The neural networks themselves are able to make the analogies fit - it is only the mind that gets annoyed with UN-fitting information. It does beg the question whether annoyance is more elemental - but I do think the neurons are quite happy to keep processing(figuratively speaking) as long as they have the energy to do so.

                                Directly Applicable
                                Lastly for this post there is what we perceive as directly applicable information. On first glance this information can bring a smile to our face. When someone is helping us to fill in the gaps of our own information it is mostly positive. When we enter into a state with them of confusion it is then that our mind must work harder to make the connections. Directly applicable information can become boring to some people - as peculiar as it sounds, I think it boils down to resolution leveling out the mind/body so therefore we seek more stimulus.

                                All three of the examples I have provided here come with their own pros and cons but I will leave that up to the reader to discern. Useful information is by no means limited to these three examples for example, information that comforts outside of small talk can be by analogy or directly applicable and no doubt something not tied up in these three examples.


                                "As a being, I desire other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless."
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                                Part 5 - Why do people have the desire to talk?

                                Postby encode_decode » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:04 am

                                  Logical Independence
                                  To know yourself, you'll find that almost all of the knowing was invention, you have a silent mind, a ghost town of the present wherein no world exists at all. Something inside tells us to seek independence. Logic dictates you ought to reason with complete independence, not relying on communication you've ever heard or read, meditating and contemplating, becoming familiar with the silent mind.

                                  The following might seem recognizable to some:

                                    With other people we can see the light;
                                    by myself I can only see the dark.

                                    With other people we can add purpose;
                                    by my self I have none.

                                    With other people I can find answers;
                                    I alone can find none.

                                    Society is an ocean;
                                    I am but a wave.

                                  To get answers we must ask questions - the reason why we ask questions is because we do not know the answers. When we need the right answers we must ask the right questions - but if no one is around then whom do we address the question to? I would say our-self.

                                    When being enters the wild with no language - universe provides for being patterns - the silent language is at work . . .

                                    . . . answers can still come from from within by virtue of being's submersion . . .

                                  Now would you say this(getting answers from our-self) only works when we have already experienced interaction with something or someone else?
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                                    Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                                    Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:32 am

                                      Ego Support

                                      Semi jokingly . . .

                                        I have something against the word ego, however I will make a serious attempt at this. I am not a big proponent of consciously feeding ones own ego for many different reasons I will not go into here . . . I am also someone who likes to point out that when it comes to the ego we should proceed with caution.

                                        Synonyms for ego: self-esteem, self-importance, self-worth, self-respect, self-conceit, self-image, self-confidence; amour propre

                                        I find some affinity with the the conscious mind, based on perception of the environment from birth onward: responsible for modifying the antisocial instincts of the id and itself modified by the conscience (superego) - but again I think there are possibly many better ways to understand what we are than the rotting corpse of Sigmund Freud's primitive model.

                                        Psychoanalysis: the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.

                                        Philosophy: (in metaphysics) a conscious thinking subject.

                                        I have found that from more sophisticated models more elegance can be found - funny that - it turns out that the convoluted nature we have produced can be simplified drastically. Patterns "biatches" are proving far superior to many if not all other models prior to the year 2000.

                                      :lol:

                                      Seriously though . . .

                                        This is an important topic . . . B U T . . . how we go about talking and thinking about it . . .

                                        . . . has led to all sorts of flame-wars and the flamers are too numerous to count.

                                      The desire to talk . . .

                                        "Beyond theorizing, there are certainly various social passions and desires at play in most of our communications. My own idea on this would be: through talk or writ people are able to produce or maintain their self. And within a society obsessed with the notion -- and upkeep -- of a personal self and the freedoms related to that self, one needs to keep propagating it: self survival! If needed, indeed even through silly, void conversations. Including the act of tuning into those of others (like with radio or television). Even writing on a forum using philosophical topics will have that element of identity. At least I'm quite aware of producing not only words or ideas but also a self-concept by doing so."

                                      Just don't ask me what the moral of the story is . . . ego(I) am lost . . .

                                      :lol:
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                                      Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

                                      Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:11 am

                                        Yearning For a Life

                                        I do believe in this context we are talking about feeling rather wholesome. This desire to feel wholesome is built into us and is a part of our survival. We take take wholesome to mean two things here:

                                          1. characterized by moral well-being
                                          2. suggestive of good health and physical well-being

                                        Moral well-being is a part of who we are and it seems adjustable to the situation we are involved in - id est morals differ from place to place. Social acceptance through our morals reinforces the self-concept and leads to good mental health overall. Whether this version of good mental health is actually morally sound is dependent on what the reader deems to be morally sound but I would suggest a threshold for morally sound which is built into us at some point - for instance not wanting to kill a member of the tribe.

                                        We are also talking about fitting in and feeling like a part of our social group. To reiterate:

                                        "As a being, I desire other beings to measure the worth of existence and without other beings, existence would be worthless."

                                        We are constantly measuring our moral well-being against that of others and seek approval for it. When one receives approval for her/his moral well-being then it is suggestive of good mental health for the individual in question and likely leads to a level of physical well-being for the said individual.

                                        The individual feels like he/she fits nice and neatly into this life that he/she yearns for or of course when things go wrong then not.

                                        Obviously I only present a facet of what it means to yearn for a life - I also am only presenting a POV here but hopefully in some way it brings us closer to understanding why we have the desire to communicate/talk/interact.
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