What is Your Reason for Doing It?

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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:26 pm

eaglerising

If proof to you is what you have personally experienced, how do you prove to someone what you have experienced which they haven’t? Does the inability to prove what you experience make it invalid?


I don't see how one could ever prove to someone else what it is that he/she has experienced.
Carl Jung said that truth is based on the concert of many voices but I don't necessarily even agree with that. Look at Nazi Germany and propaganda.
All one could do is to share that *personal* experience.
The only thing, to me perhaps, which is not proof so much but closer to proof is the way in which one lives one's life according to or as a result of that experience. If another sees that, they may at least accept the other's experience as being valid.

No, the inability to prove your experience doesn't make it invalid. The experience is valid "to you". I don't think that there is absolute truth but there is subjective truth. We have to remember this when one tells us of their experience. Of course, some things are simply absurd, like someone telling us that they looked into the night sky and saw a *witch* flying on a broom. lol

You are correct in the fact there is no physical evidence proving reincarnation. Likewise, there is no evidence proving reincarnation doesn’t exist. Therefore, it’s a possibility.

True. There was a time when I thought that reincarnation might have been a possibility based on the cycles of nature but that alone doesn't cut it.
But still, R may still be a possibility.

If reincarnation doesn’t exist, how to you explain evolution?

I don't follow this. Can you explain what you mean here?
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:15 am

"what we perceive as "manifestation" might be our awareness of something we were previously unaware of. In other words, everything already exists, we simply are unaware of it. Another mind boggling thing to investigate, that I hadn't planned on."


... a logical ... rational ... hypothesis ... been around in one form or another for a long time. Either all is in the grey matter between our ears or this same gray matter has a conduit ... with very sophisticated security clearances ... to the "cloud".

http://thoughtsofamisfit.weebly.com/our ... hadow.html
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:46 am

Eaglerising wrote

Determining the reason for doing anything requires you to be brutally honest with yourself. I say that because we have a propensity to rationalize and justify our actions or what we do. It also requires comparing your reason against you “values” and “ethics” to see if your reason is in accord with them.


Therein lies the stumbling block for most. To get past this and be "brutally honest" (HA, those two words much maligned by many) requires one to step up to the edge of the abyss and look in, something as yet, I have not had the courage to do. So, I am riddled with false impressions and vivid allusions of who I am, incapable of the lofty ability to see unadulterated reason, even though I will proclaim I can.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:55 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Eaglerising wrote

Determining the reason for doing anything requires you to be brutally honest with yourself. I say that because we have a propensity to rationalize and justify our actions or what we do. It also requires comparing your reason against you “values” and “ethics” to see if your reason is in accord with them.


Therein lies the stumbling block for most. To get past this and be "brutally honest" (HA, those two words much maligned by many) requires one to step up to the edge of the abyss and look in, something as yet, I have not had the courage to do. So, I am riddled with false impressions and vivid allusions of who I am, incapable of the lofty ability to see unadulterated reason, even though I will proclaim I can.


Psychological Firewalls??
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:52 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Thinking.jpg


I want to get beyond thought. :)

Initially, my wife dragged me into her farming enterprise ... farming is bloody hard work but it has it's rewards ... nature and animals have a lot to teach us,


Wash dishes! :evilfun:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:29 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Thinking.jpg


I want to get beyond thought. :)

Initially, my wife dragged me into her farming enterprise ... farming is bloody hard work but it has it's rewards ... nature and animals have a lot to teach us,


Wash dishes! :evilfun:


I do ... regularly. :)

Though I prefer chopping cabbage ... given there's no wood in the neighborhood.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:55 pm

Loved that pic of you with the hat of eggs, Tom! A new take on the thinking man...priceless! :D
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:48 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Loved that pic of you with the hat of eggs, Tom! A new take on the thinking man...priceless! :D


Wendy ... did you notice the geese in the picture?

I sat in the same place for so long a couple of the geese mistook my hat for their nest. :lol:

Just kidding!

Seriously though ... I don't fully understand my reason(s) for doing it ... taking the picture nor for sharing it. :)

Sure ... soliciting "stroking" is part of it ... though not all ... do you have any suggestions? Often the "other" sees what we do not.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:42 am

This is a PG site so no stroking of any kind is allowed...sorry...no suggestions in that regard, but on another front, you need more challenges, mental, emotional, spiritual but you are way too comfortable staying in the safety of a small village when your desires to push yourself farther come from a big city. In other words, stop hiding and playing it safe where you are...and/or you could finally learn Chinese and get into all kinds of trouble with that newly acquired superpower. :evilfun: :lol:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:12 am

I figured it out!

It's all vanity ... life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.

What proportion of human activity traces it's roots to vanity?

Vanity has propelled human evolution ... how bland life would be without it.

Vanity may be the cause of the destruction of humanity ... and the planet ... as well.

Life is useless ... it's like chasing the wid.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby encode_decode » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:40 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:I figured it out!

Are you positively sure?

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:It's all vanity ... life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.

The human condition it seems is more than 97% vanity ... I do not think life is useless ... it is like chasing the wind.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:What proportion of human activity traces it's roots to vanity?

I would say more than 97%.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Vanity has propelled human evolution ... how bland life would be without it.

Some part of evolution has been propelled by vanity ... I contest whether life would be bland without it.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Vanity may be the cause of the destruction of humanity ... and the planet ... as well.

This is more than 97% true.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.

We can never give up ... we have been programmed to live.

The meaning of life is to live.

8-[
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby phyllo » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:36 pm

I figured it out!

It's all vanity ... life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.
You're off to a mountain top to die nobly?
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:08 pm

Why die? Why not live nobly?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:07 am

phyllo wrote:
I figured it out!

It's all vanity ... life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.
You're off to a mountain top to die nobly?


A popular world view ... "Life is a gift! Enjoy it!

A not so popular world view ...[color=#800080] "My life has a purpose, I want to find it and get on with it ... forget about joy!"
[/color]
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:10 am

WendyDarling wrote:Why die? Why not live nobly?


Wendy ... while reflecting on EC_DC's comment ... "We are programmed to live" ... my mind was looking for the words to articulate the distinction between "to live" and "to exist".

Thank you for providing the answer. :)
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:20 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
phyllo wrote:
I figured it out!

It's all vanity ... life is useless ... it's like chasing the wind.
You're off to a mountain top to die nobly?


A popular world view ... "Life is a gift! Enjoy it!

A not so popular world view ... "My life has a purpose, I want to find it and get on with it ... forget about joy!"
You just said "life is useless".

What gives? Why are you hanging around?
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"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:36 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Wendy ... while reflecting on EC_DC's comment ... "We are programmed to live" ... my mind was looking for the words to articulate the distinction between "to live" and "to exist".

You can call me Aaron.

Forget my horrible programmed comment.

We are here to live - to me that is the meaning of life - what we choose to do to give ourselves purpose can be difficult.

I feel I have no real purpose on top of being a person - so I choose to be the best person I can be.

:D

I feel we are social - so I be social.

Don't let my comments stumble you - if it is just reflection then so be it.

I guess a good distinction would be: Make your life full - live life to the fullest.

I think in many ways you are already doing that.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:37 am

phyllo wrote: Why are you hanging around?


To niggle you :lol: ... one good turn deserves another ... quid pro quo :)
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:16 am

Aaron ... I like that name :)

Background
Just read some comments authored by eaglerising ... paraphrasing ... and perhaps not accurately ... "thoughts are fragmented and they don't know each other exists"

While eaglerising's comments were placed in the context of the human species I prefer the context of "ALL" ... some people believe plants respond to music ... https://dengarden.com/gardening/the-eff ... ant-growth

... some people believe water responds to human thought(s) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1-0ulKgmio

Peanut.JPG
Peanut.JPG (141.07 KiB) Viewed 462 times


Back to eaglerising's comments ... in the context of human thought for the moment.

Fragmented thoughts ... thoughts that don't know each other exist ... form clusters when expressed by one human being and encountered by another independent human being ... when the thought cluster reaches critical mass it is manifested in our physical reality.

Now on to your comments:

Forget my horrible programmed comment.


no need to forget it ... the only comment that 'stuck' was "we are programmed to live" ... the others passed too quickly to notice.

Code: Select all
We are here to live - to me that is the meaning of life - what we choose to do to give ourselves purpose can be difficult.


for me ... rightly or wrongly ... we do not have the opportunity to give ourselves purpose ... we all have purpose ... individual and unique ... our only choice is to discover it ... or not.
Don't let my comments stumble you - if it is just reflection then so be it.


From time to time I found some of your comments uplifting ... the remainder "simply wind" and these days it takes a pretty strong wind to make me stumble. :)

I guess a good distinction would be: Make your life full - live life to the fullest.


For me ... the distinction is ... live life for the "other" ... embrace selflessness rather than simply tolerate it.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:32 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom

:D

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:For me ... the distinction is ... live life for the "other" ... embrace selflessness rather than simply tolerate it.

And so, I be social - I too embrace selflessness.

:D

This brings a tear to my minds eye . . . I find Arcturus Descending and yourself to be the two on this forum in keeping me cheerful.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:38 am

[quote="encode_decode"]And so, I be social -

Aaron ... how did you know I wanted to add an addendum to my previous post? An after thought so to speak.

Complete individuation can not be achieved in the crowd ... aka ... being social.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:09 am

tom a guru aficionado wrote
For me ... the distinction is ... live life for the "other" ... embrace selflessness rather than simply tolerate it.


Amen. Why is this so repugnant to most folks?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:19 am

ec_dc (Aaron) wrote
This brings a tear to my minds eye . . . I find Arcturus Descending and yourself to be the two on this forum in keeping me cheerful.


I'd say Arc and tom are more thoughtful, less confrontational than most. Sorry about giving you the blues, my methods of shutting down B.S. can be caustic. I'll try to be more sensitive when I address you...promise. :happy-smileyflower:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:32 am

Pilgrim wrote:

Psychological Firewalls??


I think it is more of a case that we are all trying to make sense of this world.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: What is Your Reason for Doing It?

Postby eaglerising » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:42 pm

Phylla – Life is what you make it. just as you are what you eat, the same applies to what you consume mentally, emotionally, and physically. You aren't aware of all the information, knowledge, and experiences that are contained within your perception until something opposes, challenges, or conflicts with them. Your feelings and emotions make you aware of that conflict. In turn, you feel upset angry, confused, troubled, or even as if you are being attacked. When that happens, it is a good time to take a serious look at your perception as opposed to automatically defending it, dismissing, or rejecting what is taking place.

If you want to have a better life, take the time to examine your perception. See what you are holding on to that is preventing you from enjoying life.
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