Reality - Version 0.1

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Reality - Version 0.1 - Affectance Transition

Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:52 pm

    Quick Reference Text
    written by James S Saint.

    So that I do not have to search through the thread for some things.
    I have also attempted an order for the text.


    Meta
    The word "metaspace" refers to the conceptual space, usually Euclidean space. God, and all "angels" are concepts that "exist in" the "Divine" or "Conceptual Realm" of ideas, concepts, and/or principles that govern physical behavior.

    Euclidean space is an ontological choice that can be chosen differently, such as Minkowski's space or Einstein's "spacetime". Each of those are metaspace concepts.

    The triangle, circle, and square are also a part of that Divine or Conceptual Realm of "perfect" entities. So for me, the "Metaspace" is virtually the same thing as the Conceptual Realm within which God reigns with principle or fundamental affect. The Metaspace is the very concept of 3D space, not the physical space itself (which only exists due to the infinite amount of affectance). In a sense, affectance causes physical space.

    God is the most fundamental, underlying principle causing the physical universe to exist, aka "First/Prime Cause". And since God is an eternal entity (conceptual realm) and a cause, what is being caused must also be eternal, the physical universe.

    The "Prime Principle" governing affect is simply, "Nothing can be what it isn't" (Aristotle - "Dialectic", aka "Logic"), "It is what it is" (Hebrew), "I am that which is" (Moses), or the ever popular, "I Am that I Am" (modern interpretation of Torah and the OT).

    In reference to God, there is the general behavior or principle called "God" and there is the actual concurrent situation called "God". The concurrent situation throughout the entire universe is always enacting the general principle called "God". Therefore that general principle must physically exist at all times and in all locations throughout the entire universe. That conclusion can't be rationally avoided.

    There are times when a concept or an abstract principle is being physically enacted. During those times, the meta-concept and the physically real unite. God is one example of the union of the physical reality of God and the meta-concept of God. The Conceptual/Divine Realm, though a separate category, is not entirely exclusive of physical objects.

    The entire physical universe is made of nothing but the fundamental affect, affect-upon-affect, aka an infinite field of "Affectance".

    The "fundamental affect" is "affect-upon-affect", the fundamental substance of the entire physical universe, an affect being altered by another affect. And it is governed by a Prime Principle which requires that no affect can ever be instantaneous or take zero amount of time (which is the result of infinity (as infA or H) always being less than infinity² (infA² or H²). Time, being defined as the measure of relative change (in this case, relative to other affecting). Affecting (aka "light in a vacuum") propagates at a particular speed because it can do no other ("Let there be light" - "propagation of affect").

    Both RM and separately AO are "Seraphim" relating to "GOD".

    Spirit
    The scriptural word "spirit" merely refers to "behavior". Anywhere a particular behavior arises, the same "spirit" appears (just an issue of definition of the words). The eternal portion of a person is in two forms, "soul" and "spirit". The soul is merely the conceptual definition of the person, their conceptual essence (e.g. "a good person who likes fishing and chasing hot women").

    All concepts are always eternal, thus all souls are eternal. A perfect circle is always what a perfect circle is and any particular kind of person is always that particular kind of person. A person can change which kind they are until the person's body dies. Then they are forevermore whatever they last were.

    Spirits are a little different in that a spirit, a behavior, can come and go. A spirit is physical and literally moves about (and yes some form of body is required). That is where you get those ghost stories. A "ghost" is a "ghe-host", a "spirit host", or "the behavior that occupies the body" and in computers would be their "programming". These days, you are more likely to hear of it as "an attitude". Behaviors and attitudes pop up all over and wheresoever one of them reflects a familiar tone, therein lies a familiar spirit, perhaps of one once loved (or hated). The universe can never be totally void of any spirit that has ever been, nor of any that will ever be, thus in a mathematically provable sense, everyone's spirit shall always be eternal. The question is within what environment will they struggle (aka "Heavenly or Hellish")?

    Mankind
    To govern is to limit behavior. The name Ahdam (aka Adam, the purported first governor of Mankind), means "limiting random behavior" or "damming up the flow of chaotically free spirit".

    Memory and History
    A memory is merely the residue of a perception. It has physical existence in that it affects the physical brain and mind. But with every physical anything, there is also an associated concept. The concept always remains the same concept, but the physical memory eventually falls to entropy.

    There is a real history, a perceived history, and proposed history. They are seldom the same. The actual past does not physically exist, rather the past forms a residue that is the present as the present forms a residue to become the future.

    In everything you do, you are forming the future and displacing the past.

    For my own benefit:

      Emmanuel Levinas in his work: Totality and Infinity: An Essay on Exteriority

      To approach the other in conversation is to welcome his expression, in which at each instant he overflows the idea a thought would carry away from it. It is therefore to receive from the Other beyond the capacity of the I, which means exactly: to have the idea of infinity.

      Written words and other words do not suffice because they have become past by the time the subject perceives them. That is: they have fallen into the register of totality.

    Still I ponder: Writing might be at least as sacred as speech.
      Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
      - which is to say there is always meaning.

      (gib - 2017)

      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
      (Myself - 2017)
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      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:42 pm

        James

        What are your thoughts on how RM:AO affects ethics?
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          Re: Reality - Version 0.1

          Postby James S Saint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:50 pm

          encode_decode wrote:
            James

            What are your thoughts on how RM:AO affects ethics?
              I don't think that "affects ethics" is exactly the right terminology. RM:AO lays out an indisputable foundation for ethics. I seriously doubt that anything will ever exceed that foundation.

              In rational thought, ethics is about the best rules concerning social interaction. And the "best rules" involve the goals of the individuals involved in the society. And those goals have no option but to be MIJOT (even though the participants might not be aware of it). RM:AO merely points out that in order to achieve that goal, the proper amount of give and take must be maintained for as long as possible and with all things considered (no small task, else would have been accomplished millennia ago).
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
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              Re: Reality - Version 0.1

              Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:57 pm

                James

                James S Saint wrote:I don't think that "affects ethics" is exactly the right terminology. RM:AO lays out an indisputable foundation for ethics. I seriously doubt that anything will ever exceed that foundation.

                I was not sure what terminology to use. What is the right terminology?
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                  Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                  Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:01 am

                    James

                    I can appreciate what you are saying here.

                    James S Saint wrote:In rational thought, ethics is about the best rules concerning social interaction. And the "best rules" involve the goals of the individuals involved in the society. And those goals have no option but to be MIJOT (even though the participants might not be aware of it). RM:AO merely points out that in order to achieve that goal, the proper amount of give and take must be maintained for as long as possible and with all things considered (no small task, else would have been accomplished millennia ago)

                    Should we be talking more about rational thought?

                    or

                    Best rules?
                      Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                      - which is to say there is always meaning.

                      (gib - 2017)

                      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                      (Myself - 2017)
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                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                      Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:07 am

                      encode_decode wrote:Should we be talking more about rational thought?

                      or

                      Best rules?

                      Depends .. what is your goal. "Rational thought" and "Best rules", both require that answer.
                      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                      Else
                      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                      .
                      James S Saint
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                      Posts: 25775
                      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                      Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:13 am

                      James S Saint wrote:Depends .. what is your goal. "Rational thought" and "Best rules", both require that answer.

                      I don't completely understand what you are saying here. I am guessing that Best Rules are dependent on Rational Thought. But then it true in reverse too, that rational thought would be dependent on best rules.
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                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                      Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:23 am

                      encode_decode wrote:I don't completely understand what you are saying here. I am guessing that Best Rules are dependent on Rational Thought. But then it true in reverse too, that rational thought would be dependent on best rules.
                      James S Saint wrote: what is your goal?
                      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                      Else
                      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                      .
                      James S Saint
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                      Posts: 25775
                      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                      Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:25 am

                      I have no singular goal. I have a few goals.
                        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                        - which is to say there is always meaning.

                        (gib - 2017)

                        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                        (Myself - 2017)
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                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                        Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:30 am

                        encode_decode wrote:I have no singular goal. I have a few goals.

                        ..explains a lot.
                        But I already knew that.
                        Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                        Else
                        From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                        The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                        You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                        The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                        It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                        As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                        Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                        Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                        The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                        .
                        James S Saint
                        ILP Legend
                         
                        Posts: 25775
                        Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                        Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:34 am

                          James

                          What is your goal?

                          James S Saint wrote:I don't think that "affects ethics" is exactly the right terminology. RM:AO lays out an indisputable foundation for ethics. I seriously doubt that anything will ever exceed that foundation.

                          How can you be sure that nothing else will ever exceed that foundation?

                          James S Saint wrote:In rational thought, ethics is about the best rules concerning social interaction. And the "best rules" involve the goals of the individuals involved in the society. And those goals have no option but to be MIJOT (even though the participants might not be aware of it). RM:AO merely points out that in order to achieve that goal, the proper amount of give and take must be maintained for as long as possible and with all things considered (no small task, else would have been accomplished millennia ago)

                          The goals are not specified - they could be anything.

                          James S Saint wrote:To achieve MIJOT, Maximum Integral of Joy Over Time (the ultimate goal of life), diverse directions of accomplishments that eventually recycle must be pursued as well as longer range progressive goals. To instigate a pursuit is to perceive a hope that is higher than the current perception. This is often done simply by successive accomplishments in differing directions. As each goal is accomplished, any associated joy rises but then slowly fades. Time must be allowed to "smell the roses". But after that short period, a new goal must be perceived as worthy of effort. Each moment the new effort is perceived as gaining ground as long as the goal and the goal path was truly perceived as worthy of hope, joy is felt.

                          Here you are speaking in a way that suggests one goal at a time. True?
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                            Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                            Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:38 am

                              I am also guessing that MIJOT is the right terminology - from this question.
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                                Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:59 am

                                  James

                                  It is highly probable that it does explain a lot given my posting habits. That you already knew that comes as no surprise to me.
                                  Not to mention the amount of stuff I do away from this forum. Being 42 years old - I am still working too.

                                  James S Saint wrote:
                                  encode_decode wrote:I have no singular goal. I have a few goals.

                                  ..explains a lot.
                                  But I already knew that.


                                  In October last year I set out to achieve several things and I am determined to finish those things - the more I have to do by myself the longer it will take.

                                  I wont give up on anything that I have started.

                                  The less clear things are to me - the longer it will take me to understand these things.

                                  My ultimate goal is a clear truth in life - that could take some time to achieve.
                                    Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                                    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                    - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                    (gib - 2017)

                                    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                    (Myself - 2017)
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                                    Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                    Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:24 am

                                    Rational thought requires a highest priority goal. That is "The Goal". All other goals are merely subservient to that one, "The One".

                                    And yes, MIJOT is my highest priority goal (who would have guessed).

                                    encode_decode wrote:How can you be sure that nothing else will ever exceed that foundation?

                                    Concerning that one issue, I am not 100% certain merely because I haven't thought it through to ensure it. But then I have never run across anything that seems to challenge it in any way. So I remain "quite certain", not "absolutely certain". Rationality requires working within one's limits. I don't see that I need any more, but if it comes, so be it.

                                    And although you don't appear to know it, MIJOT is actually your highest priority goal as well. Unfortunately, obfuscation and extortion is Man's current means to manage the masses. That leaves most people a bit helpless to find their highest priority, blinded by the light, clouds, and fear.

                                    To determine the best ethics, one must consider what the highest priority of each and all of the people is, right (that "do unto others" sort of thing)? If you don't even know what your own highest priority is, how could you possibly determine social ethics?

                                    To know ethics, one must know what affects people.
                                    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                                    Else
                                    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                                    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                                    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                                    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                                    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                                    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                                    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                                    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                                    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                                    .
                                    James S Saint
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                                    Posts: 25775
                                    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                                    Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                    Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:42 am

                                      James

                                      It may be that I am making an obvious move here . . .

                                      James S Saint wrote:And although you don't appear to know it, MIJOT is actually your highest priority goal as well. Unfortunately, obfuscation and extortion is Man's current means to manage the masses. That leaves most people a bit helpless to find their highest priority, blinded by the light, clouds, and fear.

                                      I am curious to know why you wrote: And although you don't appear to know it, MIJOT is actually your highest priority goal as well.

                                      I welcome your honesty in public about this . . .

                                      8)
                                        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                                        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                        - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                        (gib - 2017)

                                        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                        (Myself - 2017)
                                        User avatar
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                                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                        Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:40 am

                                            My highest priority goal is different to my highest priority however. I consider my highest priority to be my family's survival.
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                                            Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                            Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:00 am

                                            encode_decode wrote:
                                                My highest priority goal is different to my highest priority however. I consider my highest priority to be my family's survival.

                                                What is the difference?
                                                encode_decode wrote:I am curious to know why you wrote: And although you don't appear to know it, MIJOT is actually your highest priority goal as well.

                                                That is two questions. I said that you do not appear to know it because when I asked you, you couldn't answer.
                                                Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                                                Else
                                                From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                                                The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                                                You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                                                The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                                                It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                                                As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                                                Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                                                Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                                                The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                                                .
                                                James S Saint
                                                ILP Legend
                                                 
                                                Posts: 25775
                                                Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                                                Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:32 pm

                                                  James

                                                  I stated once before - language has become quite the chasm; this is one of the few reasons I avoid this thread for longer than I would like to.
                                                  With a bit of "luck" I may be able to shed some light on the situation from my corner of the globe . . .

                                                  James S Saint wrote:Unfortunately, obfuscation and extortion is Man's current means to manage the masses. That leaves most people a bit helpless to find their highest priority, blinded by the light, clouds, and fear.

                                                  I agree. Fear seems to be what stops people finding their highest priority for certain. But I sense there is more to it than this - more to it than the clouds and the light too. I sense anger specifically. Why is it that I sense that? The answer comes down to specifically the wording you are using: obfuscation and extortion is Man's current means to manage the masses. It really drives a point home - so to speak. I believe people are angry too.

                                                  Do we have solid proof of this in either case?

                                                  ► I do not believe so because it is difficult to trust nearly every source of information that is not able to be verified.
                                                  ► We are left with assumptions in many cases . . . because . . . most sources of information are unable to be verified properly.
                                                  ► We are left with ballyhoo and hysteria - which in turn also affects are other regular items of life - like conversations.

                                                  James S Saint wrote:To determine the best ethics, one must consider what the highest priority of each and all of the people is, right (that "do unto others" sort of thing)? If you don't even know what your own highest priority is, how could you possibly determine social ethics?

                                                  That makes perfect sense if I read it outside the rest of the conversation we are having. If I read it with the rest of the conversation we are having in mind I come to the following: so are you saying because you have MIJOT you know or because I did not give you an answer straight away I don't/didn't or both? Hopefully a little further into this post I am able to demonstrate this in a way that is clear to you.

                                                  James S Saint wrote:To know ethics, one must know what affects people.

                                                  I kind of see what you mean here - I know a lot of things that affect people but I am not certain if they would be specifically the things you are talking about.

                                                  James S Saint wrote:
                                                  encode_decode wrote:
                                                      My highest priority goal is different to my highest priority however. I consider my highest priority to be my family's survival.

                                                      What is the difference? The difference is specifically in the wording that I used. The part with "goal" added could be referring to something different - like something in the future for instance - hence the wording, "is different to". Whereas the second sentence could be referring to now.
                                                      encode_decode wrote:I am curious to know why you wrote: And although you don't appear to know it, MIJOT is actually your highest priority goal as well.

                                                      That is two questions. I said that you do not appear to know it because when I asked you, you couldn't answer.

                                                      It appears to be a statement of curiosity to me - a declarative sentence - can you please tell me how it appears to be two questions to you?

                                                      Perhaps because I added the following:

                                                      encode_decode wrote:I welcome your honesty in public about this . . .

                                                      In which case it was possibly left open and in an ambiguous state wasn't it? After all I may have been referring to the following:

                                                      encode_decode wrote:It may be that I am making an obvious move here . . .

                                                      Perhaps I was even referring to the whole conversation or perhaps it appeared to be two questions to you for some other reason that I am missing entirely - in which case the best thing for me to do is read back over this conversation from the start of this conversation after I finish this post - and the kindest thing you could do is elaborate if you know what I am missing in this instance - it should become more obvious to either of us who the other answers first - in other words I am willing to make an addendum if I find it(that which I might be overlooking) first.

                                                      I have made concessions for the cultural and language usage differences because it is quite obvious to me that we are from different backgrounds/countries.

                                                      To get somewhere however I feel it is necessary for us to be providing some meta-information on our individual contexts.
                                                        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                                                        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                                        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                                        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                                        - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                                        (gib - 2017)

                                                        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                                        (Myself - 2017)
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                                                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                        Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:58 pm

                                                        encode_decode wrote:

                                                        My highest priority goal is different to my highest priority however. I consider my highest priority to be my family's survival.


                                                        I thought about this for awhile and I am tending to agree with James here, encode_decode.
                                                        You made the statement that your highest priority is your family's survival.
                                                        That can also be taken to mean that your *ongoing* highest priority goal is you family's survival.
                                                        One's highest priority would necessarily be one's highest goal. I think that the goal is *understood* in highest priority.

                                                        What is the difference? The difference is specifically in the wording that I used. The part with "goal" added could be referring to something different - like something in the future for instance - hence the wording, "is different to". Whereas the second sentence could be referring to now.


                                                        But, what you would appear to be saying, at least to me, is that at some point your family's survival would might cease to be your highest priority.

                                                        There are such fine nuances within the English language that we don't even realize at times what it is we are actually saying.
                                                        I have no doubt though that your family's survival is your highest priority at whatever moments in time.

                                                        I hope that I have no muddied the waters here.
                                                        SAPERE AUDE!


                                                        If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                                                        What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                                                        Thomas Nagel


                                                        I learn as I write!
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                                                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                        Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:48 pm

                                                          I really don't understand where I am going wrong - everything is working fine in my location.

                                                          Arcturus Descending wrote:encode_decode wrote:

                                                          My highest priority goal is different to my highest priority however. I consider my highest priority to be my family's survival.


                                                          I thought about this for awhile and I am tending to agree with James here, encode_decode.
                                                          You made the statement that your highest priority is your family's survival.
                                                          That can also be taken to mean that your *ongoing* highest priority goal is your family's survival.
                                                          One's highest priority would necessarily be one's highest goal. I think that the goal is *understood* in highest priority.

                                                          Fair enough - I am not going to argue.

                                                          What is the difference? The difference is specifically in the wording that I used. The part with "goal" added could be referring to something different - like something in the future for instance - hence the wording, "is different to". Whereas the second sentence could be referring to now.


                                                          But, what you would appear to be saying, at least to me, is that at some point your family's survival would might cease to be your highest priority.

                                                          I do not understand - but I am fine with that.

                                                          There are such fine nuances within the English language that we don't even realize at times what it is we are actually saying.

                                                          Indeed - I speak the English that I speak - not much I can do about that.

                                                          I have no doubt though that your family's survival is your highest priority at whatever moments in time.

                                                          I hope that I have no muddied the waters here.

                                                          No, you have not muddied the waters.
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                                                            Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                            Postby encode_decode » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:59 pm

                                                              James

                                                              I have thought about this further . . .

                                                              James S Saint wrote:I don't think that "affects ethics" is exactly the right terminology. RM:AO lays out an indisputable foundation for ethics. I seriously doubt that anything will ever exceed that foundation.

                                                              In rational thought, ethics is about the best rules concerning social interaction. And the "best rules" involve the goals of the individuals involved in the society. And those goals have no option but to be MIJOT (even though the participants might not be aware of it). RM:AO merely points out that in order to achieve that goal, the proper amount of give and take must be maintained for as long as possible and with all things considered (no small task, else would have been accomplished millennia ago).

                                                              So "best rules" are variable?
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                                                                Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                                Postby encode_decode » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:57 am

                                                                  :-k
                                                                    James S Saint wrote:Rational thought requires a highest priority goal. That is "The Goal". All other goals are merely subservient to that one, "The One".

                                                                    Why does rational thought require a highest priority goal? You are saying that a person can not think logically if they do not have a goal.
                                                                      Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                                                                      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                                                      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                                                      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                                                      - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                                                      (gib - 2017)

                                                                      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                                                      (Myself - 2017)
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                                                                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                                      Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:57 pm

                                                                      encode_decode


                                                                      My ultimate goal is a clear truth in life - that could take some time to achieve.


                                                                      I know that *ultimate* here is an adjective for you but what definition mostly speaks to what you are pointing to?

                                                                      adjective
                                                                      1. last; furthest or farthest; ending a process or series:
                                                                      the ultimate point in a journey; the ultimate style in hats.

                                                                      2. maximum; decisive; conclusive:
                                                                      the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon.

                                                                      3. highest; not subsidiary:
                                                                      ultimate goal in life.

                                                                      4. basic; fundamental; representing a limit beyond which further progress, as in investigation or analysis, is impossible:
                                                                      the ultimate particle; ultimate principles.

                                                                      5. final; total:
                                                                      the ultimate consequences; the ultimate cost of a project.

                                                                      6. not to be improved upon or surpassed; greatest; unsurpassed:
                                                                      the ultimate vacation spot; the ultimate stupidity.

                                                                      noun
                                                                      7. the final point; final result.

                                                                      8. a fundamental fact or principle.

                                                                      9. the best, greatest, or most extreme of its kind.

                                                                      By *a* clear truth, do you mean only one?

                                                                      I am not saying that one necessarily cannot as I do not know but is it actually possible to achieve a clear truth in life as a goal?
                                                                      When it comes to truth, aren't many more or less simply opinion, even though perhaps informed opinions?

                                                                      Does truth as you have it include proven fact? I think, but do not know, that you may be referring to truth as more metaphysical.

                                                                      Can there ever really be a clear truth in life since truth can change, our perspectives or subjective truths, can change, scientific knowledge can change (yes or no?
                                                                      SAPERE AUDE!


                                                                      If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                                                                      What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                                                                      Thomas Nagel


                                                                      I learn as I write!
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                                                                      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                                      Postby encode_decode » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:07 pm

                                                                      Arcturus Descending wrote:encode_decode


                                                                      My ultimate goal is a clear truth in life - that could take some time to achieve.


                                                                      I know that *ultimate* here is an adjective for you but what definition mostly speaks to what you are pointing to?

                                                                      adjective
                                                                      1. last; furthest or farthest; ending a process or series:
                                                                      the ultimate point in a journey; the ultimate style in hats.

                                                                      2. maximum; decisive; conclusive:
                                                                      the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon.

                                                                      3. highest; not subsidiary:
                                                                      ultimate goal in life.

                                                                      4. basic; fundamental; representing a limit beyond which further progress, as in investigation or analysis, is impossible:
                                                                      the ultimate particle; ultimate principles.

                                                                      5. final; total:
                                                                      the ultimate consequences; the ultimate cost of a project.

                                                                      6. not to be improved upon or surpassed; greatest; unsurpassed:
                                                                      the ultimate vacation spot; the ultimate stupidity.

                                                                      noun
                                                                      7. the final point; final result.

                                                                      8. a fundamental fact or principle.

                                                                      9. the best, greatest, or most extreme of its kind.

                                                                      By *a* clear truth, do you mean only one?

                                                                      I am not saying that one necessarily cannot as I do not know but is it actually possible to achieve a clear truth in life as a goal?
                                                                      When it comes to truth, aren't many more or less simply opinion, even though perhaps informed opinions?

                                                                      Does truth as you have it include proven fact? I think, but do not know, that you may be referring to truth as more metaphysical.

                                                                      Can there ever really be a clear truth in life since truth can change, our perspectives or subjective truths, can change, scientific knowledge can change (yes or no?

                                                                      You are bringing out the big guns - did you take a proton pill?

                                                                      :lol:
                                                                        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

                                                                        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                                                        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                                                        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                                                        - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                                                        (gib - 2017)

                                                                        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                                                        (Myself - 2017)
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                                                                        Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                                                                        Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:13 pm

                                                                        Truth does not change. It is an absolute, like one's gender (XX or XY chromosomes).
                                                                        I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                                                                        I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                                                                        Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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