Encode_Decode - You are to be congratulated for examining my post as opposed to defending your perception. It reveals a lot about you and it is very favorable.
You asked: How is a silent mind able to understand the abilities and limitations of thought? Seeing you asked that question, I will help you answer it by asking, “How is the mind of an adult able to understand what a baby and child cannot?”
Here is another clue. We need something different from ourselves which acts like a mirror to see ourselves. Nothing of itself is able to see and understand itself.
P.S. I neglected to thank you for commenting on my writing style.
Here is something to ponder upon. What if our questions help us see we already understand, but are unaware of it? In other words, the answer to our question is contained within the question.
Gloominary - this is the third part of my response to your post which can be found here.
The first part of my response can be found here.
A response from Gloominary to my first response can be found here.
The second part of my response can be found here.
[i]I suggest to the reader to open these links in new tabs to ease navigation,
that will keep this thread location in the browser in this tab.
alternatively, hitting the back button works too.[/i]
As previously stated: I found your post to be full of thoughtful content and very stimulating.
As simple as the case may be what you have written provides some real depth. Fantasizing is indeed good - it exercises our imagination which can lead to invention. The Ancient Greeks had this right with the concept of Mythos. Reading a great book or watching a good movie can really take us there.
Too true.
What does FMV mean?
This had a profound impact on me. This sentence inspired me writing the following:
Thoughts themselves are confined to the sensations that drive them whether internal or external. Another person’s thought that you are reading might stimulate a thought of your own. Confinements then can be thought of as seeds in the forest of mind.
This is so true. I call this concept vicinity and analogy and it is part of a triangulation technique written by a guy called Nino who in turn calls them vic and ana - my technique on the other hand remains binary in its nature. The vicinity encompasses the time and space and the analogy covers causal relations.
I totally agree with you - quantifying a thought de-qualifies it.
I agree with the sentiment - I would suggest however that each part of the sensation has no real idea associated with it - it is only when the sensation is complete and transitions to the next that the quality builds to be pure and unadulterated. This would be the essence of the here/now thought.
The experience itself is a transitioning of moments that can never be bought back and as you might suggest the here/now in this regard is the most important time.
There is much that can gained from this one sentence.
Many times I have heard people say “now more than ever we understand ourselves” but I often wonder whether by quantifying information into books and other forms of historical archives what it must have been like back at the time these archives were collated - the real feeling must have been lost to time.
But is the brain really neutral? I don’t know - I can’t say but what do YOU mean when YOU say that the brain is neutral?
My thinking is that thought can be both subjective ~ “Isn’t that an awesome tree?”
and objective ~ "A single tree produces approximately 260 pounds of oxygen per year. That means two mature trees can supply enough oxygen annually to support a family of four.I don’t
I don’t know. I may be wrong here but would you necessarily say the above?
Consciousness has more to do with personal awareness and universal awareness…the way we see and sensate things.
Subjective and objective, for me, have more to do with perception.
I realize that in order to think there has to be consciousness but is consciousness the same as thinking?
For me, in this moment, perhaps because I am tired
The Silent Mind for me is when all desire and desire toward thought has dissolved into nothingness and awareness simply IS. …even to the point of unawareness. No peaceful, no high - just …
Gloominary - this is the fourth part of my response to your post which can be found here.
The first part of my response can be found here.
A response from Gloominary to my first response can be found here.
The second part of my response can be found here.
The third part of my response can be found here.
[i]I suggest to the reader to open these links in new tabs to ease navigation,
that will keep this thread location in the browser in this tab.
alternatively, hitting the back button works too.[/i]
I have purposely sidestepped some things with the intention of adding to what you have written - nonetheless the connections are fairly obvious.
I agree. It is what we think of socially that counts to me - it seems nearly obvious when you consider what people say - never truly agreeing with each other - saying things like: “Well I am entitled to my own opinion”. What is one opinion worth when it does not serve the greater good?
Indeed. We stumble on science and we think that is the “be all end all” but I fear it is just the “end all” if we do not watch where we are going and tread ever more carefully. Then on the other hand we keep lapsing back to the mystical. I believe getting back in touch with nature is more conducive to our success as a species.
Humans do indeed fancy themselves, I would say even more than the work they do. The human ego seems to be our biggest enemy - speaking of what comes before war - I believe these days war is more about the ego than ever before. When a good percentage of people do not get their own way they become disillusioned and become cynical et cetera - I have noticed that even people who would otherwise be followers have jumped on this band wagon. It seems to me that humans are not made to have one human ruler. The center to me is pretty straight forward but getting people to listen is the hard part - people have become apathetic and feel helpless - they have settled for what they have and this is perhaps the hardest thing to re-educate people on.
You know, there was a time when I began traversing these boards that I might have been called the queen of smilies. Reaching back in time, I think that my face actually reddens and I am embarrassed to see and remember how often and how many smilies I used. I am not exaggerating. I am dead serious.
I’ve become a bit more grounded since then.
I like what encode_decode posted on Sun May 07, 2017 11:30 am because it helps people who haven’t consciously functioned in the absence of thought.
Having said that, I need to clarify the difference between meditation and the silent mind. The former is the absence of chatter. Consciousness is consciously aware of itself. The observer is separate from the observed. Both exist because they are separated by distance. The silent mind is different because the observer and observed are one. The observer and observed cease to exist, What was known ceases to exist, there is only consciousness.
I might help to see each of the following as different states of “being” or consciousness.
One, there is thought and neither your nor thought are consciously aware of consciousness. When you look at the contents of a room, thought identified each object (labels them).
Two, You become aware that something is observing thought
Three, you are consciously aware of the observer and the observed and able to distinguish which is which. When you look a the various objects within the room, nothing labels what is being observed.
Four, there is only consciousness. It is the absence of the observer and the observed. There is only consciousness. There is no “I” or identification with anything. It is the DEATH of the known. Thus, nothing can describe or identify it.
You return to what is called “reality” or your natural state of being by reversing this process.
This appears to be slightly paradoxical. Mind you I have been wrong in the past.
To solve this we would need to: reverse engineer it, or pull it apart, to see if indeed it makes sense.
An alternative would be to provide definitions of the keywords you are using.
Perhaps we will discover something new together.
I still feel compelled to answer Gloominary - I would be happy to come back to this if you would like or perhaps someone else might answer you.
I have no doubt you are pointing at something deeper here - determining what that is would be interesting from what I can tell.
Parting thoughts on the statement: Consciousness is consciously aware of itself.
This puts my mind to Bertrand Russell’s “PARADOX”.
For now lets consider something much simpler:
As somebody else on this forum said to me(albeit a distasteful choice of words):
[list]Is “quality” a quality of Quality?[/list:u]
Let us first make sure that we are making a necessary examination.
Let me reiterate on something I said previously: It seems you have a lot to offer in way of wisdom. Getting to the bottom of that however might require some work. I have been wrong in the past.
This is the fifth part of my response to your post which can be found here.
First part here. Second part here. Third part here. Fourth part here.
A response to the first part of my response can be found here.
This part of your post I find to be multi-faceted. I will probably add more to this in the future.
Listening provides us with more information than talking anyway. Allowing the words of others and the sounds of that which surrounds us, to flow into us, makes us more aware and more intelligent of our lives.
We get side tracked among our own thoughts and at other times we lose sight of the bigger picture because we were too focused on what we were trying to achieve.
Intuition I think is very important and it pays to have it there - with intuition you are able to make accurate guesses and then work the logic out after. Intuition functions better when one is able to take a break - have a rest - meditate - silence the mind. Intuition is far more than what I have explained thus far - the minds intuition is able to detect patterns very quickly and the conscious is not always immediately aware of the detection either. I find with adequate rest - that even when focusing - my intuition is still able to function properly - I am guessing then that intuition is at times in need of rest. Going with the flow can produce astounding results sometimes - it is not always clear what those around us are up to - but their actions and words often lead to something new in our own. I agree that intuition, improvisation, going with the flow and thinking on your feet, is not a form of stupidity and I have seen it produce impressive results. I will consider the rest of your paragraph more intently - I particularly like the part about essentially adapting ourselves to nature.
This is the second last part of my response to your post which can be found here.
First part here. Second part here. Third part here. Fourth part here. Fifth part here.
A response to the first part of my response can be found here.
Here we can approach closer to the silent mind.
I agree - understanding what these different forms of awareness however is the difficult part. Most people think they have a grip on this. We are confined in our understanding of everything. We should not strive to only work on any one part of ourselves. Variety is still the spice of life. Sleep, meditation and observing nature are probably the best ways to find peace and provide us with a silent mind. I find waterfalls work for me - actually anything water brings me peace. Fire always puts me into a trance. Wind … well wind can be annoying after too long - for myself.
We should not strive to only be disciplined - mentally or physically. We should not overthink anything - we should accept our confinement - anyway a break usually refreshes the mind enough to climb higher with our thought. Natures detriment - should never have been caused by us.
This is the last part of my response to your post which can be found here.
First part here. Second part here. Third part here. Fourth part here. Fifth part here. Sixth part here.
A response to the first part of my response can be found here.
Last but not least.
I am not sure whether you are aware of the idea of eating what grows in your local area at the current time of year. Eating what grows happily in the region we live in at the current time of year seems to me to be most logical.
Very hard to disagree with this - I still think there is something to eating what grows in the local area at the current time. Preserves on the other hand seem to be ok providing that they grew in the local area prior. I am led to believe that some things are healthier cooked - like for instance tomatoes. I have some other thoughts on this too but I am not certain how true they would be.
This makes sense.
Now on to answering your response to to my first response.
This is initially what I thought of when writing the original post.
Take our native language away and this would be about what you would have left over.
Indeed.
This is the part of the western mind I am trying to avoid falling into. Leave no stone un-turned. Nothing is as it seems . . .
Yep . . .
Definitely a time for everything.
Conversely . . . thinking about what we are aware of has given us valuable information.
I was hypnotized once . . . I had my perception of time stopped for a moment . . . I could really feel my perception of time stop . . . amazing.
Intuition maybe? . . . Almost everything we perceive through the eyes is processed in a linear fashion - but it is done in a type of grid fashion . . . and is related to time.
Perhaps they are the most limiting facets to our existence . . . kidding . . . I understand what you mean.
We are getting to the stage now where there is simply too much noise for the older systems of analysis.
There is more to this.
Interesting. I think I will put more thought into this. It kind of reminded me of your Ancestral Memory thread.
Overall the silent mind has been touched on through contrasting thoughts and exact thoughts. I would say that it is a little different for all of us.
“Queen of Smilies” I really like that - I would not be embarrassed - I think that is a virtuous title. Smiling can hint at goodness especially when one can have a laugh at themselves. Becoming grounded is also virtuous - as it shows dignity.
eaglerising - here is the first part of my analysis.
Before we attempt to reverse the process lets create a list to analyze its harmony.
[list]One, there is thought and neither you nor thought are consciously aware of consciousness. When you look at the contents of a room, thought identified each object (labels them).
Two, You become aware that something is observing thought
Three, you are consciously aware of the observer and the observed and able to distinguish which is which. When you look a the various objects within the room, nothing labels what is being observed.
Four, there is only consciousness. It is the absence of the observer and the observed. There is only consciousness. There is no “I” or identification with anything. It is the DEATH of the known. Thus, nothing can describe or identify it.
You return to what is called “reality” or your natural state of being by reversing this process.[/list:u]
I think you are implying that there is in fact an “I” in step one with the word “you”. This is ambiguous and would need to be cleared up - in eastern writings there is a different technique used to illustrate what you are saying. I say this because I detect something eastern about these words.
Correct me if you feel I am wrong eaglerising.
Like I said: Perhaps we will discover something new together.
As for mashing the east and west together - it is possible - difficult but possible. I think there is much ambiguity in the usage of language.
Like I say: Language has become quite the chasm these days.
Haha. I didn’t say Queen of Smiles. I said Queen of *Smilies". There is a big distinction there though I do like to smile. Perhaps it’s simply part of my mental makeup though don’t get me wrong. I am quite capable of being sent to Pessimistic Hall by way of Reality Hall. It’s a slippery slope you know.
Anyway, one never knows when someone will need one from another’s face.
I used the smilie function quite a bit when first coming here. I was quite the hedonist insofar as they were concerned. Now I try not to be even the epicurean when it comes to smilies. I think that I have grown quite a bit since coming to ILP. At least I don’t fly as much but I have to admit that there are times when I just can’t help myself. Life is short!
A smile can lead to understanding another person - as too can a frown.
Smiling is an outward expression of ones inner state - when I look at a person I am able to read a smile - the fake smile is the easiest to read. There are many smiles as I am sure you are aware. A smile tells a story all of its own. Much like a frown.
Other facial expressions are able to tell their own little stories a lot like body language.
When I shake the hand of another man that can also tell a story about the man as I am sure my own handshake can.
When a couple is holding hands whilst taking a stroll - if they are close - the story behind their inner state can also be told.
A baby knows when cradled - whether mother or father is untroubled or forlorn.
So many ways to communicate - so many possibilities to read people - the internet holds no exceptions - for that matter.
Smiling:
Reality Hall can be that way - diametrically opposed however, Reality Hall has on different occasions, provided me with some smiles and moments of great value, with the end result being a hide tide of optimism.
Regarding smiles:
I entirely agree.
Epicurus had many good points to make; to attain the happy, tranquil life, in peace and freedom from fear with the absence of pain and by living a self-sufficient life surrounded by friends. I could think of worse ways to lead ones life.
I think being content in reality - keeping the mind free of unnecessary noise - and knowing your loved ones are happy and safe - really helps.
