Fear

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Fear

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:59 am

Since time immemorial ... in various spheres of human life ... one can observe the use of "fear" as a tool. The most popular being the fear of hell in world religions.

The message is usually ... "Do as I say ... not as I do".

Implementing the above strategy has almost always required the use of force or the "fear" of the use of force ... the magnitude of force being directly proportional to the magnitude of the "menace".

One might argue that this age old and proven strategy has diminished in effectiveness in recent decades.

Perhaps the tipping point was in 1933 ... when a few words from Franklin D Roosevelt entered human consciousness:

“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”: FDR’s First Inaugural Address


Reading the news these days gives one the feeling this dinosaur ... "fear" ... is trying to make a come back.
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Re: Fear

Postby mannikin » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:23 am

Yes, because the separation from God isn't enough, eternal damnation with graphic torture should shake the audience into order, especially with the sickly insane as earthly representations of God's justice and harshness, such as ISIS...the behavior alone is enough to shock people into conversion..Don't you see an increasing number of white women wearing Hijabs..

Fear is a natural response, not necessarily negative, it's apart the defense system. It allows you to anticipate danger and respond to it. If a lion is running full charge at you, having no fear keeps you unresponsive and passive awaiting destruction, having too much fear leaves you crippled often resulting in the same destruction. A certain level of fear is required to identify nature and survive within it..

Regarding the quote..

perhaps a better way of saying it would be, all we have to do is be aware of how ideas can invoke particular human emotions then assess the motive behind the idea in respect to the targeted emotion.
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Re: Fear

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:03 pm

mannikin wrote:Yes, because the separation from God isn't enough, eternal damnation with graphic torture should shake the audience into order, especially with the sickly insane as earthly representations of God's justice and harshness, such as ISIS...the behavior alone is enough to shock people into conversion..Don't you see an increasing number of white women wearing Hijabs..


Is it possible ... with repetition over time ... a significant community of people become immune to the grotesque human treatment of other humans ... and perhaps at some point a chunk of humanity starts to crave it? Don't the popular video games, hollywood movies and TV reinforce this psychological phenomenon? Reminds me of the popularity of the Roman circus ... people flocked to the circus for one reason ... to see human blood spilled.

mannikin wrote:Fear is a natural response, not necessarily negative, it's apart the defense system. It allows you to anticipate danger and respond to it. If a lion is running full charge at you, having no fear keeps you unresponsive and passive awaiting destruction, having too much fear leaves you crippled often resulting in the same destruction. A certain level of fear is required to identify nature and survive within it..


excellent point

mannikin wrote:Regarding the quote..

perhaps a better way of saying it would be, all we have to do is be aware of how ideas can invoke particular human emotions then assess the motive behind the idea in respect to the targeted emotion.


I understand the intellectual process you propose ... some people are certainly capable of such reasoning.

OTH ... recent research ... GCP at Princeton ... suggests a significant chunk of humanity responds much like a school of fish ... complete absence of individual reasoning/decision making.

I've been thinking about the mathematical relationship between the magnitude of force ... or the magnitude of the threat of force ... and the magnitude of the threat.

Unquestionably the magnitude of the "threat of force" has ratcheted up significantly on the global scene recently.

Why? What is the perceived menace?
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Re: Fear

Postby mannikin » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:10 am

Is it possible ... with repetition over time ... a significant community of people become immune to the grotesque human treatment of other humans ... and perhaps at some point a chunk of humanity starts to crave it? Don't the popular video games, hollywood movies and TV reinforce this psychological phenomenon? Reminds me of the popularity of the Roman circus ... people flocked to the circus for one reason ... to see human blood spilled.


Yes.

Often, in some countries, there is no need for a community of people to become immune to such treatment as they have been raised among such behavior. Immunity isn't necessary as they haven't been exposed to alternative circumstances, it is normalized in the sense that it is a given,naturally.. culturally, the "grotesque" behavior is justified as a measurement of the crime committed, especially among the "eye for an eye" culture, the seriousness of the law being determined by the harshness of the punishment..

This is why migrants from specific countries find it near impossible to integrate into western societies and will naturally seek to make such environments similar to their own...

Personally, i think such behavior transcends law/culture/society etc, and it resides in the carnal nature of man in relation its primal self. promotion of such material that reinforces it provides a safe outlet to regulate natural cravings into law biding conformity, especially in humanistic secular environments. So law, culture etc becomes an expression of it, the same way feminism is a natural expression of women's behavior not the cause of it.. so women are no longer regulated directly, but the construct of feminism is regulated by women, the overseers then regulate women through feminism using it as a tool, specifically a suppressant of male energies, especially of the carnal kind, using social positional status in relational to sexuality...

I also think, given the right circumstance and pressure, every man is a killer, even if it is not consciously known to himself. When war breaks out and a great threat is presented to you, then you might be surprised by what you are capable of doing....



I understand the intellectual process you propose ... some people are certainly capable of such reasoning.

OTH ... recent research ... GCP at Princeton ... suggests a significant chunk of humanity responds much like a school of fish ... complete absence of individual reasoning/decision making.

I've been thinking about the mathematical relationship between the magnitude of force ... or the magnitude of the threat of force ... and the magnitude of the threat.

Unquestionably the magnitude of the "threat of force" has ratcheted up significantly on the global scene recently.

Why? What is the perceived menace?


In the business world the customer is always right, they are always right because you are dealing with emotional beings first and then perhaps rational, arguing with emotion when the objective is to get paid is not a good way to go about trying to negotiate a transaction, the customer is always right because your business's reputation is at risk... it would be foolish to think all living beings who are walking around outside have a particular conscious awareness, especially to the degree of rational thought.

Reality is naturally menacing, whether it be a hurricane, a tree falling, a wolf approaching, or more specifically a human being, or a collective of humans with the aim to survive through domination. Humans have always fed on each other in one way or another..it is no surprise that recent conflicts take place around the Iraq and Syria areas... People maintain a cognitive dissonance..One time I heard somebody say something like " if a tree falls in the woods and there no people around to hear it does it still make a sound?"..as if sound itself is contingent upon human hearing..as if only humans have hearing, as if humans determine reality itself.. to me, this is a sign of the delusional nature of man struggling to come to terms with a world that is much larger than himself..
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Re: Fear

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:56 am

Manni ... yet another profound post!! ... are you truly aware/conscious of your genius? I suspect the answer is a resounding "YES". :D

mannikin wrote:In the business world the customer is always right, they are always right because you are dealing with emotional beings first and then perhaps rational, arguing with emotion when the objective is to get paid is not a good way to go about trying to negotiate a transaction, the customer is always right because your business's reputation is at risk... it would be foolish to think all living beings who are walking around outside have a particular conscious awareness, especially to the degree of rational thought.


mannikin wrote: " if a tree falls in the woods and there no people around to hear it does it still make a sound?"..as if sound itself is contingent upon human hearing..as if only humans have hearing, as if humans determine reality itself.. to me, this is a sign of the delusional nature of man struggling to come to terms with a world that is much larger than himself


The following picture illustrates your above comments.

Candle Light Protests.jpg
The Power of Light over Darkness!!
Candle Light Protests.jpg (79.78 KiB) Viewed 291 times


Questions:
1) Who are the customers?

2) Who is the business?

3) What is asked of the business by the customers?

4) What is the response from the business?

Answers:

1) The people of South Korea.

2) Ba Gua ... the Korean equivalent of the Western concept of God. The South Korean (genesis in ancient China) concept of Ba Gua(God) is so entrenched in South Korean culture it is emblazoned on their nation's flag ... see photo below.

3) Mercy ... Justice

4) A popular ... Western Puppet ... "king" is dethroned in the typical Sun Tzu "Art of War" style ... ergo: the objective is to win the battle without firing a shot ... a strategy that is unthinkable ... inconceivable ... in the Western Psyche.

South Korea Flag.gif
South Korea Flag.gif (9.31 KiB) Viewed 291 times
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Fear

Postby phyllo » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:32 pm

the objective is to win the battle without firing a shot ... a strategy that is unthinkable ... inconceivable ... in the Western Psyche.
That happens in the West ... you're just too biased to see it.

The Velvet Revolution (Czech: sametová revoluce) or Gentle Revolution (Slovak: nežná revolúcia) was a non-violent transition of power in what was then Czechoslovakia, occurring from November 17 to December 29, 1989. Popular demonstrations against the one-party government of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia combined students and older dissidents. The result was the end of 41 years of one-party rule in Czechoslovakia, and the subsequent dismantling of the planned economy and conversion to a parliamentary republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
Solidarity (Polish: Solidarność, pronounced [sɔliˈdarnɔɕt͡ɕ] ( listen); full name: Independent Self-governing Trade Union "Solidarity"—Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy „Solidarność” [ɲezaˈlɛʐnɨ samɔˈʐɔndnɨ ˈzvjɔ̃zɛk zavɔˈdɔvɨ sɔliˈdarnɔɕt͡ɕ]) is a Polish labour union that was founded on 17 September 1980 at the Lenin Shipyard under the leadership of Lech Wałęsa.[1] It was the first trade union in a Warsaw Pact country that was not controlled by a communist party. Its membership reached 9.5 million members before its September 1981 Congress (when it reached 10 million),[2][3] which constituted one third of the total working-age population of Poland.[4]

In the 1980s, Solidarity was a broad anti-bureaucratic social movement, using the methods of civil resistance to advance the causes of workers' rights and social change.[5] The government attempted to destroy the union by imposing martial law in Poland, which lasted from December 1981 to July 1983 and was followed by several years of political repression from 8 October 1982, but in the end it was forced to negotiate with Solidarity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarit ... rade_union)
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Re: Fear

Postby encode_decode » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:22 pm

I have seen this first hand . . .
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Is it possible ... with repetition over time ... a significant community of people become immune to the grotesque human treatment of other humans ... and perhaps at some point a chunk of humanity starts to crave it?
I can not speak for the east but I see it from afar. As for the west - some people see fear as a vehicle to elevate their social status - I find this is a sign of stupidity and usually I get proven right once I continue to follow the psychological pattern of the individual involved. Those around the said individual are usually only using the said individual to elevate their status - again stupidity. A chunk - well that depends how you define chunk - here I give an example of a smaller chunk than I imagine you are talking about - so I will say this - it starts to become unconscious among individuals the larger the chunk - like an autonomous thing that people just do. Finally people just accept it with fear common to challenge the status quo.

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Re: Fear

Postby Is_Yde_opN » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:59 pm

Sun Tzu wrote:Generally in war the best policy is to take a state intact, to ruin it is inferior to this.
To capture the enemy’s army is better than to destroy it; to take intact a battalion, a company or a five-man squad is better than to destroy them.
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy’s strategy.


So how is this done?

Sun Tzu wrote:Attack plans at their inception. In the Later Han, K’ou Hsun surrounded Kao Chun. Chun sent his Planning Officer, Huang-fu Wen, to parley. Huang-fu Wen was stubborn and rude and K’ou Hsun beheaded him, and informed Kao Chun: ‘Your staff officer was without propriety. I have beheaded him. If you wish to submit, do so immediately. Otherwise defend yourself.’
On the same day Chun threw open his fortifications and surrendered.
All K’ou Hsun’s generals asked: ‘May we ask, you killed his envoy, but yet forced him to surrender his city. How is this?’
K’ou Hsun said: ‘Huang-fu Wen was Kao Chun’s heart and guts, his intimate counsellor. If I had spared Huang-fu Wen’s life, he would have accomplished his schemes, but when I killed him, Kao Chun lost his guts. It is said: ”The supreme excellence in war is to attack the enemy’s plans.” ’
All the generals said: ’This is beyond our comprehension.’



By destroying the enemy's morale, its spiritual and intellectual leadership.

Modern words for it are things like 'Deconstructionism'.
Or more cleverly liberation of the society.
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Re: Fear

Postby phyllo » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Undermining the West is a full time job. :D
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
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Re: Fear

Postby Is_Yde_opN » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:11 pm

phyllo wrote:Undermining the West is a full time job. :D


Tell me about it, but since there are not many places left for retreat you have to push against it.
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