ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

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ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:38 am

Nihilism is the lack of objective meaning to either the universe or to existence. Specifically human existence. Now such absence is not really a negative rather a
blank canvas upon which one can give meaning to ones own existence. So it can be regarded as either neutral or positive. Though ones subjective interpretation
of reality should not be incompatible with actual objective reality. Furthermore one should not attempt to change that that cannot be changed. Only that which
can. That which cannot be changed should simply let be. Operating from such principles one can still be a nihilist. Not a true nihilist. Since they do not have any subjective meaning to their lives. Instead a positive nihilist who sees the lack of objectivity to the universe or to existence as beneficial to developing their own individual philosophy or world view outside of existing belief systems
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby phyllo » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm

Why start ANOTHER nihilism thread? :evil:
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:07 am

What is "objective meaning"?
What is "meaning"?
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:20 pm

What it is referenced to. When it has no visual reference besides itself, then it means it is connected to positive feel good emotions, such as a hobby bringing "meaning" to your life (the sense of feeling good is the meaning.)
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:20 pm

Excuse me?
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:35 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Excuse me?


The meaning of a ball is that is round. Meaning is a clarification of forms. The meaning of a word is what it is associated to. Meaning of ice is that it is frozen water.

We dont have a meaning of the afterlife, because we don't actually know where consciousness goes after death. Thus, life feels meaningless.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:19 pm

What do people mean when they say "life is meaningless"?
I have my own answer.
I ask for yours and S57's.

Once that question is answered, you have to define what "objective meaning" is.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby gib » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:34 am

surreptitious57 wrote:Nihilism is the lack of objective meaning to either the universe or to existence. Specifically human existence. Now such absence is not really a negative rather a
blank canvas upon which one can give meaning to ones own existence. So it can be regarded as either neutral or positive. Though ones subjective interpretation
of reality should not be incompatible with actual objective reality. Furthermore one should not attempt to change that that cannot be changed. Only that which
can. That which cannot be changed should simply let be. Operating from such principles one can still be a nihilist. Not a true nihilist. Since they do not have any subjective meaning to their lives. Instead a positive nihilist who sees the lack of objectivity to the universe or to existence as beneficial to developing their own individual philosophy or world view outside of existing belief systems


Hmm... the challenge there is how to actually believe in your own subjective/invented values and beliefs. If you know they're subjective or made up, how to go about your life as if they were real.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:50 am

One can have subjective values as long as they are not incompatible with objective reality because that creates a disconnect. They are real inasmuch as one
holds them to be true. They are therefore subjectively real. They do not have to be true for every one. But if they were then they would be objectively true

Objective reality is that which is true regardless of subjective interpretation. And meaning in an objective sense pertains
to the universe or existence having a specific purpose. Obviously they do not and so this is only true in a subjective sense
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Pandora » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:04 am

We still don't know what we can and cannot do. Can we harness antimatter? I don't know. A better question would be whether it would increase or decrease of our chance of survival in the long run.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:48 am

surreptitious57 wrote:Objective reality is that which is true regardless of subjective interpretation. And meaning in an objective sense pertains
to the universe or existence having a specific purpose. Obviously they do not and so this is only true in a subjective sense


I am not satisfied with your definitions. So I will offer you mine.

Meaning: a set of interests (= desires = goals = instructions = commands) that determine the manner in which organisms attempt to live their lives

Realistic/objective meaning: a set of commands that are executed when issued

Unrealistic/subjective meaning: a set of commands that are not executed when issued

Universal meaning: belief that every organism in existence shares, or should share, the same set of interests according to which they attempt to live

Shared meaning: an observation that a set of interests is shared among a group of organisms

What does it mean when people say that "life is meaningless"?
It means that they have failed to accomplish their goals.
That their expectations are unmet.
That their commands are not being executed.
But instead of taking responsibility for their actions, by adjusting their expectations, they blame the world for failing to meet their expectations.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:54 pm

Objective meaning as in the grand scheme of things such as universe or existence not commands that have to be executed. Subjective
meaning as alternative to lack of objective meaning not commands that cannot be executed. You are thinking small scale but that has
nothing at all to do with nihilism and so your definitions are invalid
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:57 pm


Not really sure what anti matter has to do with nihilism
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:58 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Objective meaning as in the grand scheme of things such as universe or existence


What does that mean?
Grand scheme of things?
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:20 pm


An absolute meaning to the universe or to existence known as God
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:24 pm

How can universe have a purpose?
It makes no sense.

Once you understand that purpose means goal, or more precisely plan, it becomes apparent that only conscious beings can have a purpose.

After all, the term "universe" refers to nothing specific.
At best, it means everything, as in, every single object within the universe.

Does every single object within the universe have a purpose?
No, only objects that can plan do.

Do rocks have a purpose?
No, they don't. They cannot, do not, plan.

You see, the universe has no purpose means nothing other than the universe does not work according to my plans.

That's it.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:49 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
An absolute meaning to the universe or to existence known as God


In other words, I am not aware of any plan, set of expectations or model of reality with which I can predict the universe flawlessly.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby phyllo » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:05 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
An absolute meaning to the universe or to existence known as God
The meaning or purpose is not the same as God.

If one believes in god(s), one tends to also believe that god(s) created the universe with some specific intentions.

But even without a belief in god(s), one can believe that the universe is moving in a particular 'direction' and towards a particular 'destination'. That would be an objective meaning or purpose.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:38 pm

So meaning means pattern?
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:46 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:What do people mean when they say "life is meaningless"?
I have my own answer.
I ask for yours and S57's.

Once that question is answered, you have to define what "objective meaning" is.


Life feels 1 dimensional, like objects have no connection to anything besides themselves, no function other than their own existence. Thus life feels meaningless and without purpose. A Cause gives life purpose and meaning, until there are no more villians to vanquish, then it's back to the aimless peace of the Shire, almost intolerably dull, so we make videogames to distract us from the void.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:08 pm

Cool.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:35 pm

phyllo wrote:
But even without a belief in gods one can believe that the universe is moving in a particular
direction and towards a particular destination. That would be an objective meaning or purpose

No it would not because that would be function which is a purely physical process. Whereas purpose
pertains to the nature of existence and is ontological. So they are entirely separate from each other
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:08 pm

I don't understand how universe, and not merely things within the universe, can move in particular direction towards particular destination.
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby phyllo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:20 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
But even without a belief in gods one can believe that the universe is moving in a particular
direction and towards a particular destination. That would be an objective meaning or purpose

No it would not because that would be function which is a purely physical process. Whereas purpose
pertains to the nature of existence and is ontological. So they are entirely separate from each other
The purpose is in the form and function of the physical object. The shape of a car and what the car does , manifest its purpose. If the designer of the car is not there to tell you about its purpose, then you have to deduce it by examining the object.

The universe is just a large complex object.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: ANOTHER BLOODY NIHILISM THREAD

Postby James S Saint » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:39 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:I don't understand how universe, and not merely things within the universe, can move in particular direction towards particular destination.

"Direction" in development or in time, not direction in space.

And the "destination" is the continuation. It cannot be stopped.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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