My entire philosophy in the least words

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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:19 pm

Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:34 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


So what if I am. At least I don't advocate for suicide. What good what that be? You believe that humans can magically spawn their own utopias after they die, but what if you're wrong?
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:35 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


Now where did I say I wanted something nobody else can have? If I banged a dude's hot wife, I would let him have sloppy seconds. And I said everyone should be hot lesbians, not just me.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:38 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


So what if I am. At least I don't advocate for suicide. What good what that be? You believe that humans can magically spawn their own utopias after they die, but what if you're wrong?


I advocate reducing suicidal tension ...
I advocate figuring out how to get the suicide rate to zero in that context.

You advocate fear that will assure re spawning in bullshit again and again.

It's pioneers like me who are going to create heavens for beings... Not narcissists based in fear like you
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:39 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


Now where did I say I wanted something nobody else can have? If I banged a dude's hot wife, I would let him have sloppy seconds. And I said everyone should be hot lesbians, not just me.


You called everyone who wants firsts "a brat" except you.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:48 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


So what if I am. At least I don't advocate for suicide. What good what that be? You believe that humans can magically spawn their own utopias after they die, but what if you're wrong?


I advocate reducing suicidal tension ...
I advocate figuring out how to get the suicide rate to zero in that context.

You advocate fear that will assure re spawning in bullshit again and again.

It's pioneers like me who are going to create heavens for beings... Not narcissists based in fear like you


Some fears are based in reason. It's an evolved response to avoid danger.

Death is an unknown, until you can prove to me we have magic powers when we die to create utopias, I will focus on creating a utopia in the here and now, not putting blind faith in suicide machines.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:49 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Trixie,

How can I be the brat when I want everyone to create their own universe of philosophic zombies from the collective consciousness of the cosmos, and you want something nobody else can have??

You are a narcissist, and a major brat


Now where did I say I wanted something nobody else can have? If I banged a dude's hot wife, I would let him have sloppy seconds. And I said everyone should be hot lesbians, not just me.


You called everyone who wants firsts "a brat" except you.


I never said I wanted first, just don't want venereal diseases.

I dont want the fanciest house ever made, all I want is a decent life, I don't even have a decent life.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:56 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Now where did I say I wanted something nobody else can have? If I banged a dude's hot wife, I would let him have sloppy seconds. And I said everyone should be hot lesbians, not just me.


You called everyone who wants firsts "a brat" except you.[/quote]

I never said I wanted first, just don't want venereal diseases.

I dont want the fanciest house ever made, all I want is a decent life, I don't even have a decent life.[/quote]

You live in the lap of luxury compared to billions of people and in your entitlement, bitch about wealth being translated to everyone.

Considering you repudiate what I say, what you really want is to live in a world where you have something others don't or can't have.

I know this is all shocking to you in the sense that a narcissist can't even formulate like this...

To defend any stratification, is inherently evil.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:58 pm

Lap of luxury? You're crazy. At least africans have friends...My toilet doesn't even flush. Surely you can find some africans with flushing toilets?
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:59 pm

Africans get laid more than I do, but at least the universe gives me food, the only way I can cope with my rage.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:13 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Some fears are based in reason. It's an evolved response to avoid danger.

Death is an unknown, until you can prove to me we have magic powers when we die to create utopias, I will focus on creating a utopia in the here and now, not putting blind faith in suicide machines.


Only a narcissist can find utopia in a place where they get something someone else wants but can't have.

Non narcissists --- this is a living hell.

So.. Since there's a catch 22 in all worlds like this, they expand outside the box, it's the only thing that gives meaning.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:20 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Some fears are based in reason. It's an evolved response to avoid danger.

Death is an unknown, until you can prove to me we have magic powers when we die to create utopias, I will focus on creating a utopia in the here and now, not putting blind faith in suicide machines.


Only a narcissist can find utopia in a place where they get something someone else wants but can't have.

Non narcissists --- this is a living hell.

So.. Since there's a catch 22 in all worlds like this, they expand outside the box, it's the only thing that gives meaning.


You eat meat. You are the biggest hypocrit on the planet.

I'm tormented every night by the horror's of this world. Don't speak to me about piety.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:21 pm

I am a pious narcissist, an angel of good, a god amongst manimals.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:22 pm

I'm tormented by the horror's of this world every night, such as the mouse in my house who won't leave me alone.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby gib » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:19 am

Ecmandu wrote:You're avoiding my point.

I said a million different people may want that house, and I'm repeating myself by saying there are 7 billion people on earth, not just 2. It's like you have a fog for basic reason here.

Those 2 people are zero summing a million other people!!!!!!!!


So you're saying we can't consider 2 people in an isolated exchange, that to understand your point, I have to consider how such an exchange effects the entire world. It's true that in the exchange, no one else but us two are getting the house/money. So even if it's a win/win for us, everyone else still doesn't get what they want.

Ultimately, this means it has nothing to do with exchanges. If I kept my money and the other guy kept his house, the rest of the world would still have neither.

Now this doesn't mean that everyone's unhappy. Only some people are... and only those who are homeless (or hungry, or deprived of sex). I mean, sure not everyone can have the house that I buy, but some of these are billionaires in mansions. I'm happy with the house I bought. The billionaire's happy with his mansion. It's only the homeless to whom this world is a cruel, cruel place.

But sure, compared to a universe in which we can create whatever we want, have as much as we want, like an infinite number of sexy lady-zombies, this world might seem horrible in comparison... for anybody... but I think that's a relative matter.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:33 am

gib wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:You're avoiding my point.

I said a million different people may want that house, and I'm repeating myself by saying there are 7 billion people on earth, not just 2. It's like you have a fog for basic reason here.

Those 2 people are zero summing a million other people!!!!!!!!


So you're saying we can't consider 2 people in an isolated exchange, that to understand your point, I have to consider how such an exchange effects the entire world. It's true that in the exchange, no one else but us two are getting the house/money. So even if it's a win/win for us, everyone else still doesn't get what they want.

Ultimately, this means it has nothing to do with exchanges. If I kept my money and the other guy kept his house, the rest of the world would still have neither.

Now this doesn't mean that everyone's unhappy. Only some people are... and only those who are homeless (or hungry, or deprived of sex). I mean, sure not everyone can have the house that I buy, but some of these are billionaires in mansions. I'm happy with the house I bought. The billionaire's happy with his mansion. It's only the homeless to whom this world is a cruel, cruel place.

But sure, compared to a universe in which we can create whatever we want, have as much as we want, like an infinite number of sexy lady-zombies, this world might seem horrible in comparison... for anybody... but I think that's a relative matter.


So you concede the point. And yes, like I explained in another thread: if you become celibate or chaste, you hurt those who want that sexual bond with you, if you have sex with someone, you hurt all the other people who wanted to share that with you.

No matter what you do in this world system, you hurt ACTUAL and not hypothetical people.

Why would anyone tolerate that??

That's why I say that this world system is inherently evil, and those who defend it are as well.

At a certain point, in this existential crisis of shit, you need to expand out of the box for meaning and purpose;;;; what else is there???
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby gib » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:05 am

Ecmandu wrote:So you concede the point. And yes, like I explained in another thread: if you become celibate or chaste, you hurt those who want that sexual bond with you, if you have sex with someone, you hurt all the other people who wanted to share that with you.

No matter what you do in this world system, you hurt ACTUAL and not hypothetical people.


Ok, but I still don't think this holds for absolutely every move you can make. What if you're old, fat, and ugly, and nobody wants to have sex with you. Then you're not really hurting anybody by going celibate.

I think you're better off making the more general, and simpler, point that we live in a world of scarce resources and millions of people are deprived of basic wants and necessities. <-- That's what makes this world so damn bad, not the principle that every move you make ends up hurting someone.

^ I think more people would agree with you if you just stuck to that.

Ecmandu wrote:Why would anyone tolerate that??

That's why I say that this world system is inherently evil, and those who defend it are as well.


And here's the next point on which I need a bit of clarification. "Evil" to me connotes malicious intentions or a malicious character. The systems of the world that make life so horrible are pretty awful but they're not "malicious"--they don't go out of their way to hurt you any more than an earthquake goes out of its way to hurt you. So unless you want to say some horrible intelligent being deliberately threw us into the situation we're in, I think this is a misuse of the term "evil"--but I still agree, it's a pretty horrible world.

I'm also not so keen on blaming people for defending the system, or labeling them "evil"--I think it all depends on what they know of the system they're defending. Most people, I think, just see the world differently from you (you can say they're in denial about how awful it is). I think it's very rare to find an individual you literally thinks: I love that the world is so evil; I only wish it was more evil! BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!! People being in denial about the things you say can be infuriating, but that doesn't make them evil.

Also, wanting to improve the world, or just accepting it because you don't see any other option, is not evil either.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:17 am

gib wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:So you concede the point. And yes, like I explained in another thread: if you become celibate or chaste, you hurt those who want that sexual bond with you, if you have sex with someone, you hurt all the other people who wanted to share that with you.

No matter what you do in this world system, you hurt ACTUAL and not hypothetical people.


Ok, but I still don't think this holds for absolutely every move you can make. What if you're old, fat, and ugly, and nobody wants to have sex with you. Then you're not really hurting anybody by going celibate.

I think you're better off making the more general, and simpler, point that we live in a world of scarce resources and millions of people are deprived of basic wants and necessities. <-- That's what makes this world so damn bad, not the principle that every move you make ends up hurting someone.

^ I think more people would agree with you if you just stuck to that.

Ecmandu wrote:Why would anyone tolerate that??

That's why I say that this world system is inherently evil, and those who defend it are as well.


And here's the next point on which I need a bit of clarification. "Evil" to me connotes malicious intentions or a malicious character. The systems of the world that make life so horrible are pretty awful but they're not "malicious"--they don't go out of their way to hurt you any more than an earthquake goes out of its way to hurt you. So unless you want to say some horrible intelligent being deliberately threw us into the situation we're in, I think this is a misuse of the term "evil"--but I still agree, it's a pretty horrible world.

I'm also not so keen on blaming people for defending the system, or labeling them "evil"--I think it all depends on what they know of the system they're defending. Most people, I think, just see the world differently from you (you can say they're in denial about how awful it is). I think it's very rare to find an individual you literally thinks: I love that the world is so evil; I only wish it was more evil! BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!! People being in denial about the things you say can be infuriating, but that doesn't make them evil.

Also, wanting to improve the world, or just accepting it because you don't see any other option, is not evil either.


Ahh... But if you're old, fat and ugly, YOURE probably hurting, or at least hurting others.

It's like homelessness. It makes some people uncomfortable (hurt). So you get a home, then what happens?? You hurt all the people who think everyone should be homeless (their hurt)

In terms of your evil argument, I think it is blatantly obvious that this is all hurting people no matter what you do. So I can pour through all the books and find that nobody bothered to mention it. That to me is evil (intent) through omission.

In terms of what we can do ... If people stopped defending this world thousands of years ago .., who knows where we'd be now?

I personally think we'd all be on different planes of existence through that much meditation on this truth.

That's because of my experiences. But because not many have had those types of experiences, I have to pick up the slack

I refuse to accept anything about this world other than it has some nice ingredients.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby gib » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:48 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Ahh... But if you're old, fat and ugly, YOURE probably hurting, or at least hurting others.


I doubt that's always the case with old, fat, ugly people. And besides, even if it is, my point is that you're not causing any more harm by choosing celibacy.

Ecmandu wrote:It's like homelessness. It makes some people uncomfortable (hurt). So you get a home, then what happens?? You hurt all the people who think everyone should be homeless (their hurt)


I suppose the argument could be made that for every choice you make, or everything you do, there will be some who are against that choice or that action. All I want to say, however, is that this ought not be thought of as an all-encompassing law of reality--surely there will be cases in which you can make a choice to do something without hurting anybody. If I choose to blow my nose in private, that's not gonna hurt anybody--even if there are anti-nose-blowers out there.

Ecmandu wrote:In terms of your evil argument, I think it is blatantly obvious that this is all hurting people no matter what you do. So I can pour through all the books and find that nobody bothered to mention it. That to me is evil (intent) through omission.


This only holds if those people who failed to mention it did so deliberately out of some spiteful or sadistic kick--as in: "HA! HA! HA! I'm going to write a book about how awesome this world is even though I know it's absolutely horrible. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Like I said, most people just hold different views from you. And most people--whether they're writing books, teaching classes, or just engaged in conversation--don't have in mind the question about whether or not this world is bad/evil and therefore should I say so.

But your point about evil intention through ommission is still relevant. It does address my point about what can be called evil and what can't. Cancer, though causing great suffering and taking the lives of many people, is not quintessentially "evil" because it is just an unconscious, accidental disease. It's horrible, sure, but not "evil". But when you talk about the world being evil--do you mean the physical universe we live in or the people who make up our social and political systems, people with intentions, motives, selfish desires, personal goals, etc. <-- Are we all evil because we can't seem to live together in such a way that everyone is happy, that no one is ever disatisfied with anything?

Ecmandu wrote:In terms of what we can do ... If people stopped defending this world thousands of years ago .., who knows where we'd be now?

I personally think we'd all be on different planes of existence through that much meditation on this truth.


Again, I think it comes down to what people know. If you could show them that creating zombie universes is easy as cake (and also explain to them what that means), then maybe you'd have a case to say that those who continue to accept this world are making backwards decisions (I still think calling them "evil" would be an extra stretch).

Ecmandu wrote:That's because of my experiences...


Exactly! I think everything turns on this point. I think you've had a rough life and some very esoteric experiences, which means most people are, at best, not going to be able to appreciate you, and at worst, going to mock and fight against you because of the prejudices and biases we have in this society.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 pm

gib wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Ahh... But if you're old, fat and ugly, YOURE probably hurting, or at least hurting others.


I doubt that's always the case with old, fat, ugly people. And besides, even if it is, my point is that you're not causing any more harm by choosing celibacy.

Ecmandu wrote:It's like homelessness. It makes some people uncomfortable (hurt). So you get a home, then what happens?? You hurt all the people who think everyone should be homeless (their hurt)


I suppose the argument could be made that for every choice you make, or everything you do, there will be some who are against that choice or that action. All I want to say, however, is that this ought not be thought of as an all-encompassing law of reality--surely there will be cases in which you can make a choice to do something without hurting anybody. If I choose to blow my nose in private, that's not gonna hurt anybody--even if there are anti-nose-blowers out there.

Ecmandu wrote:In terms of your evil argument, I think it is blatantly obvious that this is all hurting people no matter what you do. So I can pour through all the books and find that nobody bothered to mention it. That to me is evil (intent) through omission.


This only holds if those people who failed to mention it did so deliberately out of some spiteful or sadistic kick--as in: "HA! HA! HA! I'm going to write a book about how awesome this world is even though I know it's absolutely horrible. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Like I said, most people just hold different views from you. And most people--whether they're writing books, teaching classes, or just engaged in conversation--don't have in mind the question about whether or not this world is bad/evil and therefore should I say so.

But your point about evil intention through ommission is still relevant. It does address my point about what can be called evil and what can't. Cancer, though causing great suffering and taking the lives of many people, is not quintessentially "evil" because it is just an unconscious, accidental disease. It's horrible, sure, but not "evil". But when you talk about the world being evil--do you mean the physical universe we live in or the people who make up our social and political systems, people with intentions, motives, selfish desires, personal goals, etc. <-- Are we all evil because we can't seem to live together in such a way that everyone is happy, that no one is ever disatisfied with anything?

Ecmandu wrote:In terms of what we can do ... If people stopped defending this world thousands of years ago .., who knows where we'd be now?

I personally think we'd all be on different planes of existence through that much meditation on this truth.


Again, I think it comes down to what people know. If you could show them that creating zombie universes is easy as cake (and also explain to them what that means), then maybe you'd have a case to say that those who continue to accept this world are making backwards decisions (I still think calling them "evil" would be an extra stretch).

Ecmandu wrote:That's because of my experiences...


Exactly! I think everything turns on this point. I think you've had a rough life and some very esoteric experiences, which means most people are, at best, not going to be able to appreciate you, and at worst, going to mock and fight against you because of the prejudices and biases we have in this society.



Why should someone who's old, fat and ugly... Just give up on sexual feelings just to fit in with society? Does giving up on a dream really make someone happier? What about the additional dream of not even being old, fat and ugly?? I think someone who has a choice, and still chooses old, fat and ugly, just likes to piss people off! To get a reaction (negative connotation) from people, revolsion.

Well... For body cohabitors; some may like picking and eating nose stuff as one of their favorite activities in life... So to use tissue or handkerchief pisses them off greatly! If you choose to appease them, you are pissed off... This is all called compromise - and not very acceptable when you think about it.

As for your stance against everyone being guilty to be defined as evil who defends this type of world system, or doesn't realize this truth.

I think people who don't realize this truth are evil oriented. I mean, it's so obvious to the good. It's like a serial killer who doesn't understand why people are so mad at them!!! It cannot occur to them!! But they are still evil!!!

As far as dissatisfaction goes...

Maybe someone writes a philosophic zombie world for themselves that has elements of dissatisfaction because they enjoy it somehow. At least it doesn't become another's dissatisfaction who doesn't want that!!

As far as the ease of construction...

I work on it every day, but I'm just one person ...

I can guarantee you that if 7 billion people understood the problem and looked for escape, we'd figure it out really quick!

I've seen more amazing miracles (most of them hells!!) than I have fingers...

I know for a fact that if you get 7 billion people to say, "this is complete bullshit for this reason and completely unacceptable". That we will actually move to a new plane of existence.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:31 pm

Problem is, most of these people are getting laid, they have their needs filled, so they dont seek to rectify the problem of needs.

I said it before and I said it again, I dont want to die and be reborn a happy person who eat-meat, I want to be born a tofu vegetarian who is unhappy, can't stand happy people who torture animals. I want to blow off cruella devilles head with a 12 gauge shotgun then rape her dead corpse.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:51 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Problem is, most of these people are getting laid, they have their needs filled, so they dont seek to rectify the problem of needs.

I said it before and I said it again, I dont want to die and be reborn a happy person who eat-meat, I want to be born a tofu vegetarian who is unhappy, can't stand happy people who torture animals. I want to blow off cruella devilles head with a 12 gauge shotgun then rape her dead corpse.


And you can do all of that in a philosophic zombie universe without bothering anyone else.

You can make every plant and animal a philosophic zombie... You can make all the reincarnation sequences philosophic zombies, you can make cosmic consciousness a philosophic zombie.

All you need are behavioral signatures...

Maybe you love your cat so much that you want it forever. Why should the cat have to put up with you or even being a cat forever and ever... Not a problem at all in philosophic universes because you can modulate behavior signatures without hurting anyone!!
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:53 pm

Why would I want to marry a p-zombie? Im sure there are others who want to be hot lesbians with me.

You are an awful lot of talk but no evidence. Im supposed to believe that when I die I will get magic powers to make a utopia...where's the evidence? And something about it seems odd...if we can just snap our fingers and make p-zombie worlds, why are we on this shitshow with no p-zombies? Its the old question of, why didn't God just put us in heaven in the first place?
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:58 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Why would I want to marry a p-zombie? Im sure there are others who want to be hot lesbians with me.

You are an awful lot of talk but no evidence. Im supposed to believe that when I die I will get magic powers to make a utopia...where's the evidence? And something about it seems odd...if we can just snap our fingers and make p-zombie worlds, why are we on this shitshow with no p-zombies? Its the old question of, why didn't God just put us in heaven in the first place?


Your proclivity to want to marry is enough aggression to get you laid!

But that's besides the point...

You can't empathize with people enough to realize that real people hurt.

I'd rather know everyone is happy and be in a philosophic zombie universe than with reals and know that someone isn't happy at some time because of my selfishness or need for approval from a real being to feed my ego.
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Re: My entire philosophy in the least words

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:06 pm

You aren't listening at all. Signs and symtpoms of your low empathy.

My thing was, if we have magic powers to create pzombie utopias, why are we on this shithole in the first place? Think about the paradox of it also, if this world isn't already a Pzombie land, that means everyone is conscious, which means consciousness must cycle through every miserable wretch in this world before it escapes it. Also it means that consciousness will continue to cycle until every creature on this world is dead unless the consciousness escapes the gravitational pull of earth.

Second, why the hell would an asshole who gets sex go to hell for eternity? Seems like an injustice. Im well aware of how the process works, I know how females think, a guy comes on to you, and you don't really want to hurt his feelings, but you don't really want to have sex with him either, so he keeps trying and being more assholish and eventually you cave in to his aggressive demands. Im well aware of how it works, still why would they go to hell for eternity for such a minor crime?
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