Why is Consciousness

getting more and more discredited in Western civilization whose philosophers, artists, priests & poets held it, since the early Greeks, in high esteem.

Is it because modern western sciences pay little attention to consciousness, and if so, only to try to bind it into matter?

Or is it that people are increasingly captured by the material aspects of existence and thus become callous to consciousness?

What is the benefit of eliminating a concept that is accredited to have enriched Western cultures – and of course the grand civilizations of the East, who, by the way, keep its esprit since millennia well and alive.

You will note that both are following what they are told or taught to believe. Mass collective belief leaves little room for individuality. Does fear of the unknown control or actual truth? I go with fear and fear is no way to learn truth.

Western civilization began in the task of thinking, or rather to be more precise, in the task of what we call thinking. Certain poetic or artistic feats flowed out of that primary task as a kind of healthy excess of it.

Today, thinking is de-valued and ridiculed, where it isn’t outright banned (such as at your job, for example, or in the church). Since art proper is a natural excess of thought, art now becomes more of a periphery “niche” sort of thing, an individual preference, or mostly a capitalist endeavor designed to co-opt values and thoughts/thinking to a given capital-arrangement. Art still exists today but it isn’t what it once was; where it used to be a societal-level, truly cultural undertaking and power now it is mostly “individual” where it hasn’t already been subsumed within larger capital networks.

Anyway, you can easily diagnose a culture’s consciousness and thinking through its art. Hence how differences appear even within things like religions; some religion is a womb for slowly gestating thought and new more dynamic powers of consciousness, even if at face value the religion is nothing like that or even seems the exact opposite, while other religion is basically devoid of consciousness altogether and has no womb to speak of.

Luther-ism was perhaps the last time when a religious subjectivity obtained womb-like.

As for consciousness itself, it is simply a complex means of responding to certain ranges of reality. Consciousness is a point of contact from which emanate responses. The famous dualism between material and immaterial with respect to the question of consciousness is, really, a largely unconscious expression of the fact that consciousness is a certain kind of material structuring capable of recognizing and responding to immaterials (to facts, or to meaning, directly).

How do you know most of these Westerners are even sentient? They could be pzombies.

^ Saying things like this isn’t thinking, it’s anti-thinking.

Somehow you’ve been convinced that what you’re doing is philosophy. It isn’t. Probably you were convinced of this by other “philosophers” (charlatans, of which there are many today, mostly in academic philosophy departments).

Robotic and cliche response.
If you believe that every trillion of lifeform is sentient, if you believe that 100% of humans are sentient and 50% of animals are sentient, you better give an explanation about the paradox of exclusive information sets.

I don’t think even you have any idea what you’re saying. I would call you a troll, but you seem to have swallowed your own propaganda; which, incidentally, is one definite of “religion” that I ran into the other day while reading some science fiction…

Its religion to believe that people who have cardboard personalities are sentient. Half the world’s population acts like repetitive cardboard.
What do you think of my robot thread? Think that was a lie? Think again. For all we know we could live in a simulation. 60% of the science community agrees with me. I win. NPCS dont have sentience. Not even sure you have sentience.

“What do you think of my robot thread?”

A robot is to execute someones program - so do some people - but latter is nothing to boast with in a philosophical forum…

90% of you act like robots…it’s nothing to boast about.

Speech without fear is overrated…how many of you would spew the shit you’d spew if I actually lived in close proximity to you and there were no laws and rules giving me a conscience? I mean, everyone here pretty much posts drivel day in and day and out, and spits in the face of one the few people who tries to liven up this mental desert. I mean, how many of you act like automatons day in and day out? And who’s lives will, eventually culiminate into a grand nothing but a gravestone with a pithy remark inscribed on it laying in the dirt? And who spits on the one who tries to change things and actually have an impact on anything beyond your own pitiful so-called minds?

Cardboard cut-out…wer-wer bebop do the robot:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU6vlbW4Ft4[/youtube]

I am not even sure that the science we have today could be considered “real science” despite some impressive results here and there. I think science has lost its own consciousness and is more like a swarm. I love how the latest science so easily convinces itself of what consciousness is when it appears that what science has is merely a theory - still! Or did I miss the memo that the theory of evolution has become a law. If I were to choose a theory it would be “string theory” or “m theory”. But ineffective rhetoric aside - I myself sensed material captivation as a correlation to this lovely new science. Look at the world now - what is science really doing for it? I see that eliminating the concept of consciousness has had no actual benefit to any of us. More rhetoric and ineffective still and I apologize for that - but I felt the need to say something. Science seems promiscuous to me now and adulterous. That is all I have to say on the matter - I have no intention on debating my own rhetoric here.

:smiley:

Smile is all I can really do - because “sleep” is not an option . . . open to interpretation . . .

being a “slow learner” is not a bad thing!

“slowness” tends to facilitate penetration … as in penetrating consciousness.

as the saying goes … if the shoe fits … and me thinks the “shoe” is like panty hose … “one size fits all”

Like it or not folks Trixie is a genius! The complexity of her posts are often 4-5 layers higher … as in more complex … than the simplicity of the words and phrases she uses to deliver it. I don’t know whether it is always his/her intention … or by accident. Doesn’t matter the “goodness” is there and the fountain is Trixie’s genius.

Let me try to illustrate with his/her recent use of the word “robot” and the (un)known association(s) to humans he/she implied in his/her post.

Let me start with an anecdote involving my eldest daughter … currently about age 43. She is not a philosopher by trade yet she is not an uneducated woman. She wears the moniker/badge PhD … with some pride I might add. For me … those who wear this moniker/badge have serious constipation in their individual consciousness.

On with my story … a few years ago my daughter shared her philosophy of life … paraphrasing … like the tiger and the rabbit I get up in the morning and start running … looking for food.

See the ‘robotic’ behavior here? … we are taking directions/instructions from our stomach.

For tigers and rabbits … that’s what they do … no more and no less. How many photos have you seen of tigers lazing around in the sun or in the shade.

OTH … for people the word “food” has a much broader meaning … education … career … stature/status in the community and so on.

See the ‘robotic’ behavior here? … we take directions/instructions from our family/culture/ambition and so on.

In many many ways … perhaps almost all ways … people are robots.

Trixie … you’re a genius!!

Has anyone achieved individuation? … anywhere? … anytime?

Sure … they’re called:

  1. freaks

  2. degenerates

  3. insert here

  4. insert here

In the last few decades the entire world has more or less embraced the notion of Market Economy … humanity has virtually no wiggle room … all humanity is reduced to robotic behaviour.

The destructive strain(s) of such an economic model have been evident almost since it’s inception … first at a local level … growing to a regional level and finally (currently) a global level.

The strain(s) will eventually result in a total collapse … in ancient Chinese Philosophy … known as “Reversion of Extremes”.

In nature, this can be seen in a rose blossom … just when the rose blossom finally reaches it’s zenith … the flower is open, beautiful and fragrant … very quickly the next phase sets in … the ugliness of death.

The death of the individual rose blossom is not the death of the rose plant … likewise for humanity … when the current economic model dies a new one … better or worse … will replace it.

Civilisations change - and so do their sociopolitical- national- religious- economical setups* - but Homo remains the same.
Nothing wrong with it - we are what we are - but in times of trouble, or even danger of extinction, it is recommendable that we wake up from our self-complacent dreams.

  • Yval Noah Harari calls them Myths - see his new (highly recommendable!) work: " Sapiens, A Brief History Of Humankind"

Everyone is subject to circumstances - and vice versa. Later aspect entails responsibility.
Since collectives have low and slow response-abilities - the individual (Lat: Undivided) might be the best guide through troubled waters (times)

P.S. I am sure Buddha, Socrates and Copernicus were called nuts and freaks too.

empirical evidence (Confucius, Lao Tzu, Abraham) suggests the truly individuated individual (Lat:undivided) has been born into the human family at the appropriate time … always.

I am certain they would have been as I know I have been.

:smiley:

I love your avatar - Salvador Dali if I am not mistaken.

Dali named it

“Geopoliticus son watching the birth of the new man”