surreptitious57 wrote:In a system with maximum entropy no work at all can be performed
surreptitious57 wrote:.. in most cases it does increase
Pandora wrote:That's very broad. Everywhere I'd look I would see power because change is happening everywhere. (Maybe transfer of energy would be a better description).Magnus Anderson wrote:Power is the ability to change.
Right.James S Saint wrote:"The ability to cause change" is "potential energy". The changing itself is "energy". And then "power" is how much change is caused within an amount of time (usually conflated with "potential power").
In physics, power is energy over time = how much changing (the "work") is done within a specified amount of time (the rate of energy transfer or the rate of changing of the changing).
Well, I can only speak on that which I can observe and that which makes sense to me. I cannot, in honesty, really speak as to what's going on elsewhere in the universe. How would I (or anyone) know anyway?James wrote:Although universally, it increases in exactly one half of the cases.
Yes, and in physics, as James noted, that ability to change would be considered potential energy. In physics, there would also be additional variables considered for power, such as speed of such change. You can do the same quality and quantity of change but doing it faster would be considered more powerful (in physics anyway), so, as an example, blasting a large hole in the mountain with dynamite in 2 seconds vs. digging it out by hand for 15 yrs vs. natural water erosion by rain water for 2 million yrs. Same result, different pace. (the first example of work would be considered more powerful on the account of speed) But then, in energy transfers, and work done, isn't there also an efficiency factor involved, or the amount of energy used up for work. Which of the three would be most efficient? I'm thinking the third example. Sport vehicles, for example, maybe powerful and faster but would not be considered efficient, as they also consume a lot of fuel in the process. Maybe this does not specifically have anything to do with power per se, but if you're talking change and energy transfers these elements start coming into play as well. It seems to me that the efficiency factor may actually exist independently of power factor. So far, I've identified four variables in energy transfer dynamics: potential energy (ability), power (rate), work (amount of change or the amount of energy transferred by force), and efficiency (energy lost/conserved in the process). Perhaps it can be debated whether power should be further differentiated to include rate and not just work (as it seems to be usually understood).Magnus wrote:Whenever you see one object changing another object -- change must be caused -- that would be a manifestation of power i.e. the ability to change. That, however, does not mean that every object has the same ability to change, in terms of both quality (kind of change) and quantity (degree of change), as every other object.
It is useful to define what ability is.
Ability means being able to do something.
Ability to do something means that you can do that action. That means nothing other than that you will perform that action when you're expected to do so.
Pandora wrote: I cannot, in honesty, really speak as to what's going on elsewhere in the universe. How would I (or anyone) know anyway?
Pandora wrote:(Well, so much for me attempting to geek this thread out. )
Pandora wrote:I was trying to see it in terms of physics alone but that requires a certain kind of looking at things that I am not used to. I mean, don't physicists see the physical world in terms of interplay of different forces? Perhaps they cannot capture all of it, especially when it comes to human behavior, but we must also act within the laws of physics or natural world, as we are just part of it. So language use and labels become problematic sometimes if you try to change the framing.
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