Philosophies of Animals

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Philosophies of Animals

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:27 am

"Wishes are granted in between blades of grass and inside fine heads of seed."

Image

https://www.wildgratitude.com/meaning-o ... it-animal/

This is a wonderful text about mouse. There is a mouse in my house which is small, its not dirty here, he has been here now and then, comfortable, alone and graciously moving to collect crumbs. A mouse is a Virgo, of course, Mice belong to the maiden.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby XJPhoenix » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:23 pm

I am not quite sure what the purpose of this post is but the title attracted my interest so I am going to respond anyway, without really knowing what sort of debate, if any, you are trying to stimulate.

If the suggestion is that humans are not alone in their ability to think philosophically or intellectually then I must disagree. Other species lead a far more simple existence- that which is dictated by the needs to survive and reproduce only, without any concern for improving their station or deciphering the mysteries of the universe. That is not a philosophical position but a scientific one- it is simply fact that the human has a greater capacity to conceive of philosophical ideas than any other species, a gift given to us by evolution.

I say that the existence of other animals is simple because their's is a natural one- they follow their natural behaviors and needs because that is all that is required for them to survive. Humans conversely are the only species that actively attempt to limit and manage their natural behaviors. going against their nature so to speak- this is a far harder task, as natural urges can often overcome our reason. We actively restrain our nature, which thus makes our life technically more complex, though the reward for doing so is much greater than the rewards animals gain.

To summarize, there really is no philosophy to the life of an animal, other than the philosophy we apply to it. There's is a life dictated by nature and natural behaviors; ours is a life dictated by far more complex forces.
XJPhoenix
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:00 am

XJPhoenix wrote:We actively restrain our nature, which thus makes our life technically more complex, though the reward for doing so is much greater than the rewards animals gain.
I haven't seen it.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby Pandora » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 pm

Diary of a Church Mouse
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4177
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:09 pm

XJPhoenix wrote:To summarize, there really is no philosophy to the life of an animal, other than the philosophy we apply to it. There's is a life dictated by nature and natural behaviors; ours is a life dictated by far more complex forces.

Animals don't think about philosophy or engage in philosophical thinking - at least I doubt it, though perhaps dolphins and whales with their larger brains than ours and complicated social lives do. But each animal embodies a philosophy, a mode of existence, a style. To encounter an animal, such as a mouse, is to encounter a philosophy in action, and that can be profound.

Our lives may be more complicated, but they are still dictated by natural forces and behaviors.

And most humans don't mull over their approach to life either.
Karpel Tunnel
Thinker
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm


Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:25 pm

XJPhoenix wrote:I am not quite sure what the purpose of this post is but the title attracted my interest so I am going to respond anyway, without really knowing what sort of debate, if any, you are trying to stimulate.

Thanks for reviving the discussion. The purpose if there is any, now reveals itself: to express skepticism.

If the suggestion is that humans are not alone in their ability to think philosophically or intellectually then I must disagree. Other species lead a far more simple existence- that which is dictated by the needs to survive and reproduce only, without any concern for improving their station or deciphering the mysteries of the universe. That is not a philosophical position but a scientific one- it is simply fact that the human has a greater capacity to conceive of philosophical ideas than any other species, a gift given to us by evolution.

I do not agree that the term human suffices to imply philosophical ideas. How many humans have philosophic ideas? Maybe one in a million? At best. The philosopher is a type among the soil that we call humanity, but which is absolutely not one species if it concerns the sort of criteria you would grant the whole lot of us. Most animals are far less helpless than most humans, because most humans carry their brain as a burden, it works against them. Hence, the hell on earth for our poor dumb species.

I say that the existence of other animals is simple because their's is a natural one- they follow their natural behaviors and needs because that is all that is required for them to survive. Humans conversely are the only species that actively attempt to limit and manage their natural behaviors. going against their nature so to speak- this is a far harder task, as natural urges can often overcome our reason. We actively restrain our nature, which thus makes our life technically more complex, though the reward for doing so is much greater than the rewards animals gain.

I would say we are beings in the process of learning to restrain ourselves. We are more than rabbits, we are more than sea-cows. But as mentioned, dolphins and whales have large brains and warm blood, they clearly are not simply there to survive. Dolphins are generally experienced by the humans that interact with them as the initiators of the games they share with the human.

The reason we build so much stuff has to do with our helplessness before nature. We are naked, we need tools to even stay warm enough. That causes a specific type of consciousness which, if you take it as the sole criterium for what consciousness is, puts all else in its shadow. But I don't think this is a fair or reasonable assessment of the term consciousness. Most mammals spend more time on play than on survival. Life isn't sufficiently explained as "survival of the fittest to survive"; as least to me it appears as something more actively engaging itself.

But then, that too, is a matter of what species of character comes out of the bloody, self-sacrificing soil of humanity.

To summarize, there really is no philosophy to the life of an animal, other than the philosophy we apply to it. There's is a life dictated by nature and natural behaviors; ours is a life dictated by far more complex forces.

You might seem complex to yourself, but that's not a sign of consciousness of what you are.
Humans are herd animals and thus not disciplined of themselves, their large brains run rampant and force them to expend their energy in engaging debt and wages labour, rendering them to not more than ants. Do you see this as a sign of a greater consciousness than a free living predator?

The physiology of a puma is as complex as a humans but a lot more flexible and vigorous. Consciousness is a result of reflexive electromagnetic activity. I think the human overestimates his prowess.

What happens to a human when he is left without other humans? Generally he becomes an inadequate animal and makes a mockery of nature, in a rare case he is a philosopher and simply becomes happy not to have to deal with humans.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Philosophies of Animals

Postby encode_decode » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:02 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
XJPhoenix wrote:To summarize, there really is no philosophy to the life of an animal, other than the philosophy we apply to it. There's is a life dictated by nature and natural behaviors; ours is a life dictated by far more complex forces.

You might seem complex to yourself, but that's not a sign of consciousness of what you are.
Humans are herd animals and thus not disciplined of themselves, their large brains run rampant and force them to expend their energy in engaging debt and wages labour, rendering them to not more than ants. Do you see this as a sign of a greater consciousness than a free living predator?

The physiology of a puma is as complex as a humans but a lot more flexible and vigorous. Consciousness is a result of reflexive electromagnetic activity. I think the human overestimates his prowess.

What happens to a human when he is left without other humans? Generally he becomes an inadequate animal and makes a mockery of nature, in a rare case he is a philosopher and simply becomes happy not to have to deal with humans.

Man, I could not have put it better myself. It has been a while since I have smiled at something on this forum for the sake of what it is that I am smiling at but this has done it for me.

Thanks FC :D
    Neosophi | HOME | FORUM

    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony
    (James S Saint)


    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
    (Anomaly654)


    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
    (Myself)
    User avatar
    encode_decode
    Philosopher
     
    Posts: 1187
    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm


    Return to Philosophy



    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users