Philosophy is Friendship

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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:07 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I like dance music.. but not necessarily the electronic kind, but I'm not averse to it.. I need to hear a melodic voice along with my music, which the European version seems to lack.


There you go. You need to hear a melodic voice along with your music. But there is neither melody nor voice in Pezer's masterpiece. This is why you're suspicious. This + the fact that you don't know what EDM it. You cannot possibly be into EDM without first knowing how to define it.

You are also wrong when you say that European dance music seems to lack melodic voice. In fact, only European dance music can possibly have any melody to it. Dutchmen even went so far to invent a breakdown phase during which a long melody is played while everyone is doing nothing but holding their hands in the air.


Why not?
Don't we do that with our notions and beliefs about God?
People are "into God" without actually knowing how to define that "IT" - they just believe they know.

Anyway, I don't actually agree with you there, Magnus.
Music is part of the human emotional experience. We can be "into it" without knowing its history or how it is necessarily defined. We either like something or we don't - though we can come to appreciate it better - we feel it within our spirits or for lack of a better word, our souls.
We resonate to certain music. That's on a different level than intellect.
I love Puccini. I don't know much about his life, actually nothing, and I don't know music but I do resonate to his music. I fall deeper and deeper and deeper into those sounds. I go into another place, and that place needs no words, no intellect, just who I am at my core, my being, my soul. lol


I might ask you how you're defining the word "melody".
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Sauwelios » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:15 pm

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:Sowilos,

Neurotic is oodles better than necrotic.


"Immortals mortal, mortals immortal: the former live the death of the latter, the latter are dead compared to the life of the former." (Heraclitus, Diels-Kranz fragment 62.)


An attempt at a light hearted exchange has been circumvented by more profundity minus the fun.


Whose attempt? Fixed Cross posted his OP in the Philosophy forum, not some mundane babble forum.


Why do the now lurking philosopher kings need my attention at all?


I don't know. Do we?
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby URUZ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:18 pm

This thread is a crucible.


In terms of gaining something here vs sowing, at this point and for a while now I routinely skip past every single post here except for those made by two or three users here. I seriously don't read the rest. Why the fuck would I?

Fixed and Sauwelios, as Fixed notes about sincere friendship, I'll require your earnest critique and ideas with respect to my new work. Ideas too are crucibles. So is music (say hey to Pezer for me).

Friendship is a mystery to most people. I gave a compliment to someone recently at work, they got really quiet and seemed embarrassed. I think people secretly know when and where they lack pride, lack value. But at least they retain their shame, sometimes.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Meno_ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:39 pm

Friendship really is no different then the commercial exchanges which go on in markets and bazaars. People trade their wares, in expectation to get something else. There is absolutely no relation of this to philisophy, where serious thinkers don't expect anything in return, except a brief notice to their altruism.

Friendship is expecting alliance, protection, reliance, a tool to escape solipsism, and a potion against yet more formidable enemies then one's own brethren.

See what happens when the old adage, friends in need are friend in deed are thrown by the wayside? Or when a rich man surrounded by friends of all kinds suddenly find themselves abandoned, when their mo eye is gone?

Or in the case of dishonest philosophers they start throwing mud at each other for some ridiculous bit of nonsense?

I think philosophy was invented to appease those who were left bereft of these superficial frailties.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby MagsJ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:45 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:There you go. You need to hear a melodic voice along with your music. But there is neither melody nor voice in Pezer's masterpiece. This is why you're suspicious.

Is Pezer's track a finished symphony, or the beginning of a work in progress?

Can tunes we like to listen to and to dance to be different?

This + the fact that you don't know what EDM it. You cannot possibly be into EDM without first knowing how to define it.

In the UK we simply call 'EDM' Electronic, so simply a case of confusion in translation on my part, and it's not about a specific genre of music per se but about the actual track that has caught my attention.. regardless of genre, so no definition necessary in my world.

I like all sorts me ;)

You are also wrong when you say that European dance music seems to lack melodic voice. In fact, only European dance music can possibly have any melody to it. Dutchmen even went so far to invent a breakdown phase during which a long melody is played while everyone is doing nothing but holding their hands in the air.

...and that is the kind of Electronic music and DJ set that bores the fuck out of me :shock: Sorry, but my attention span does not allow me to be part of a flock with their hands held high worshipping at the alter of the DJ deck. Fuck that cunt!
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby URUZ » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:41 am

EIHWAZ PERTHO NAUTHIZ

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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby MagsJ » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:34 am

MagsJ wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:If we accept the premise that philosophy is friendship, it follows that E is a necessary part of becoming a great philosopher. But I am straying away . . .
Many members here equate some form of drug taking with philosophical epiphanies, but are those epiphanies grounded in reality when they are created elsewhere?

...would appreciate your reply to this more.. on-topic enquiry?
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:58 pm

boy genius wrote:This + the fact that you don't know what EDM it. You cannot possibly be into EDM without first knowing how to define it.

Like you can't possibly be into food if you don't know how to define it.

MagsJ wrote:
You are also wrong when you say that European dance music seems to lack melodic voice. In fact, only European dance music can possibly have any melody to it. Dutchmen even went so far to invent a breakdown phase during which a long melody is played while everyone is doing nothing but holding their hands in the air.

...and that is the kind of Electronic music and DJ set that bores the fuck out of me :shock: Sorry, but my attention span does not allow me to be part of a flock with their hands held high worshipping at the alter of the DJ deck. Fuck that cunt!

Truly.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:11 pm

Wyld wrote:This thread is a crucible.


In terms of gaining something here vs sowing, at this point and for a while now I routinely skip past every single post here except for those made by two or three users here. I seriously don't read the rest. Why the fuck would I?

In as far as actual philosophical development goes, there obviously isn't anything to read except Sauwelios, you, and myself.

For the rest it's just people and their personal lives and ponderings. Some of them know this and as such have acquired a style that is pleasant for me to read in the morning.

Others fancy themselves thinkers and churn out post after post of absolute rubbish. Of course these posts are to be ignored.

I accept these rants in response to my posts as therapy sessions for such individuals.
Im not joking. I see online philosophy as a crucible indeed, serving many 'dirty', i.e. unintended functions.

Fixed and Sauwelios, as Fixed notes about sincere friendship, I'll require your earnest critique and ideas with respect to my new work. Ideas too are crucibles. So is music (say hey to Pezer for me).

Will do

Friendship is a mystery to most people. I gave a compliment to someone recently at work, they got really quiet and seemed embarrassed. I think people secretly know when and where they lack pride, lack value. But at least they retain their shame, sometimes.

I think friendship can only exist between equals, or between two people that have decided that one is the master and the other the slave. Many friendships of stupid people are arranged like that. The former case is what I refer to as a philosophical state; it requires not only that one knows oneself, but also the other. And to that end, one needs to not only know oneself but also master oneself.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:08 pm

MagsJ wrote:Is Pezer's track a finished symphony, or the beginning of a work in progress?


Pezer is a lazybum who will never ever finish anything. Indeed, you can't even say he's starting anything.

...and that is the kind of Electronic music and DJ set that bores the fuck out of me :shock: Sorry, but my attention span does not allow me to be part of a flock with their hands held high worshipping at the alter of the DJ deck. Fuck that cunt!


That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about euphoria (= rush = chills = goosebumps), not DJ worshipping.

In the UK we simply call 'EDM' Electronic, so simply a case of confusion in translation on my part, and it's not about a specific genre of music per se but about the actual track that has caught my attention.. regardless of genre, so no definition necessary in my world. I like all sorts me ;)


I thought you were an American. Either way, EDM is EDM everywhere, especially in Europe (UK including.) EDM has been in popular use since at least early 00's. It was popularized in America recently, but that's only because American and European club scene are not one and the same scene.

regardless of genre, so no definition necessary in my world.


In your made-up world, yes, but in reality, it is necessary. In the same sense that in order to enjoy Pollock's art you need to know who the artist is.

Music is supposed to reflect natural biological rhythm. With these guys, it is the reverse. Music is supposed to suppress this natural biological rhythm.

This is why I say it is physically impossible to enjoy Pezer's music. Our bodies simply do not have such vibrations. It's unnatural.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:31 pm

This is background music. It's not something you listen to, it's something that makes noise in the background while you're focusing your attention somewhere else (e.g. hitting on girls, tripping on acid, etc.) This is what makes this music tolerable. This is why most people cannot stand this kind of music outside of the club/rave setting. Noone apart from producers and DJ's has the need to pretend that this kind of music is good. DJ's and producers need to because they build their lives around it. They enjoy the idea that they are doing something truly valuable in their lives. It's difficult for them to say to themselves "listen, what I do sucks, but I have to do it because I need money". Instead, it's easier to say "hey, maybe I don't enjoy it, but these people obviously do, and tastes are relative, for everyone is self-valuing and everything values in terms of itself, so just because I don't enjoy it does not mean it sucks."

The clowns we are dealing with in this thread -- Pezer and Fixed -- have no genuine interest in making music (or anything else, for that matter.) They are just scatterbrained men-children randomly hopping from one activity to another.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Pandora » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:02 am

Magnus wrote:Music is supposed to reflect natural biological rhythm. With these guys, it is the reverse. Music is supposed to suppress this natural biological rhythm.

This is why I say it is physically impossible to enjoy Pezer's music. Our bodies simply do not have such vibrations. It's unnatural.


To me, the closest similar music genre would be either Trapstep or Glitchstep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_(music)

Seems like music is trying to move into its own contemporary age, where you can make music out of noise...out of pretty much anyting, in fact. I remember when dubstep was trying to incorporate sounds from horror movies and video games, and even folksongs. I guess anything is game now.

Like what this guy is doing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0a__OjtxE

The work is minimal since technology is doing everyyhing (it's not like playing a piano, I mean), but it's still a creative process, like making a sound collage.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:01 pm

There was microsampling as early as early 00's and perhaps long before that too (I am not sure, but something tells me Aphex Twin did it first.)



The club scene, like most of the popular music scene, merely repackages old stuff.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Some early sample based beats from my Macintosh.

https://m.soundcloud.com/fixedcross/beat-swazi
https://m.soundcloud.com/fixedcross/wit-raam
https://m.soundcloud.com/fixedcross/vechtmachine
https://m.soundcloud.com/fixedcross/meeuw
https://m.soundcloud.com/fixedcross/amanda

(All my own samples, very few with double notes or hits... maybe 3 in total. So all of the melodies are originally mine.)
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:34 pm

So there was a point in time where your music did not absolutely suck. Sadly, one or two of your songs actually were almost "there", with a few edits or two would have "made it" (in terms of actually becoming a listenable song), but but but then you went down the road of drugs and drummachines and just tumbled down the hill, like Sisyphus.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby MagsJ » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:25 pm

MagsJ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:If we accept the premise that philosophy is friendship, it follows that E is a necessary part of becoming a great philosopher. But I am straying away . . .
Many members here equate some form of drug taking with philosophical epiphanies, but are those epiphanies grounded in reality when they are created elsewhere?

...would appreciate your reply to this more.. on-topic enquiry?

Is the (chemical) drug scene a necessary endemic of the EDM scene? as your silence on the matter would indicate so.

Are great philosophical epiphanies gained through drugs grounded in reality when they are created elsewhere?
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby MagsJ » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:46 pm

Wyld wrote:Friendship is a mystery to most people. I gave a compliment to someone recently at work, they got really quiet and seemed embarrassed. I think people secretly know when and where they lack pride, lack value. But at least they retain their shame, sometimes.

That is your view on the situation, but you do not know why the other reacted the way they did... there could be one or a combination of reasons in why the compliment was not well-received, and it would also depend on what the compliment itself was.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:40 pm

MagsJy,

Are great philosophical epiphanies gained through drugs grounded in reality when they are created elsewhere?



I don't understand what you mean by the phrase "when they are created elsewhere" within this context but I don't think it's the drugs which bring on those epiphanies.

Who knows if they (the drugs) may be the final push (I'm totally opposed to all drugs except for healing and for terrible pain, like medical marijuana) but I don't see epiphanies in that way. I don't intuit that they are some kind of magical things just waiting in the wings. I think that they come about after months or years of observing, listening, studying, et cetera. They may be waiting in the wings of our unconscious minds ALSO which gather intel but which we don't see on the conscious level.

What is philosophy - love of wisdom and truth. They both take time. I'm not so sure that the great philosophers would like to think that their efforts/struggles/pains and hard work to accomplish what they have would be so watered down by the effects of drugs.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:29 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:So there was a point in time where your music did not absolutely suck. Sadly, one or two of your songs actually were almost "there", with a few edits or two would have "made it" (in terms of actually becoming a listenable song), but but but then you went down the road of drugs and drummachines and just tumbled down the hill, like Sisyphus.

I must have the haughtiest fans in the world.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:34 pm

Even though it has been locked...

...with regard to your Does Anyone Still Want the Zombie Turd Here thread, why would you initiate such a thread? I'm not looking for an answer to that question but perhaps you can answer it to yourself. Do you know what a projection is, Jakob? :-" I think that you can you see yourself as better than that or are you looking to be the leader of the Herd?

I actually think that he is a good guy.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Even though it has been locked...

...with regard to your Does Anyone Still Want the Zombie Turd Here thread, why would you initiate such a thread? I'm not looking for an answer to that question but perhaps you can answer it to yourself. Do you know what a projection is, Jakob? :-" I think that you can you see yourself as better than that or are you looking to be the leader of the Herd?

I actually think that he is a good guy.

I have acquired the power, and joyfully exercise that power, of separating scum from myself.
All I need to do is write down deeply wholesome insight. The rotten hearts of the world will speak out in horror and draw lines of truth between us.

This is what Politics means in the coming age; separation and regrouping by means of explicating values directly.

Turd is part of a species of ape that has failed to attain full humanity, so is Trixie - they have no 'heart' - only a mind that is essentially parasitic.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:59 pm

I have acquired the power, and joyfully exercise that power, of separating scum from myself.

All I need to do is write down deeply wholesome insight. The rotten hearts of the world will speak out in horror and draw lines of truth between us.


We all have our own view of truth, don't we? How do you know that yours is a valid one, are valid ones, and that those of the rotten hearts of the world you speak of aren't?
How can negatively gathering the sheep to the herder come from a deeply wholesome insight?
It could come from something deeply felt but not really understood or noticed.
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby perpetualburn » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:04 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I think friendship can only exist between equals, or between two people that have decided that one is the master and the other the slave. Many friendships of stupid people are arranged like that. The former case is what I refer to as a philosophical state; it requires not only that one knows oneself, but also the other. And to that end, one needs to not only know oneself but also master oneself.


But Pezar is certainly not your equal. So does that make him your slave? It seems like you're indulging him (joining him in pointless juvenile pursuits) rather than trying to raise him to be your equal (as a lover of wisdom). You're also unintentionally embarrassing him with threads like "What Pezar Said"
As a pillar of rising smoke did my angel condescend and appear, standing without reserve on the exhausted banks of infinite sorrow.

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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Even though it has been locked...

...with regard to your Does Anyone Still Want the Zombie Turd Here thread, why would you initiate such a thread? I'm not looking for an answer to that question but perhaps you can answer it to yourself. Do you know what a projection is, Jakob? :-" I think that you can you see yourself as better than that or are you looking to be the leader of the Herd?

I actually think that he is a good guy.

I have acquired the power, and joyfully exercise that power, of separating scum from myself.



...and that is why you have the haughtiest fans in the world.

Yes. I appeal to peoples instinct for superiority.
Lowly people hate it, and express it through trying to lower what they see, high people enjoy it or feel fine with it.
By lowering the noble notion of Value so violently, the lowly reveal themselves as, objectively, scum.

None of this is meant to convince anyone of anything; it is meant to clarify the master-slave dynamic.
At one point I will cease sacrificing energy to this clarification, but I enjoy seeing scum outlined as precisely what it is. I enjoy its writhing in its self-knowledge.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Philosophy is Friendship

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:10 pm

perpetualburn wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:I think friendship can only exist between equals, or between two people that have decided that one is the master and the other the slave. Many friendships of stupid people are arranged like that. The former case is what I refer to as a philosophical state; it requires not only that one knows oneself, but also the other. And to that end, one needs to not only know oneself but also master oneself.


But Pezar is certainly not your equal. So does that make him your slave? It seems like you're indulging him (joining him in pointless juvenile pursuits) rather than trying to raise him to be your equal (as a lover of wisdom). You're also unintentionally embarrassing him with threads like "What Pezar Said"

You evidently have no friends.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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