The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

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Does life make sense?

Yes.
12
60%
No.
5
25%
I don't know.
3
15%
 
Total votes : 20

Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:03 am

I define consciousness as the basic feature of a biological organism and nothing else so it does not have to
be capable of abstract thought or self aware. It simply has to be a life form which is alive. So all members
of the animal and plant kingdom. And bacteria as well [ since it is from the latter that all other life came ]
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:54 am

It does not have to be capable of it, but it does anyhow. Should it?
Does it make any difference?
If it makes no difference, then humanity should not have evolved anyways.

Because it makes a difference it has become a tautologically oppressive anti-power, argued differentially, from the flatlined reasoning of pure logic.

That is the difference between Frege/Wittgenstein and Russell, besides the primary difference of the definition of substance.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:21 am

jerkey wrote:It does not have to be capable of it, but it does anyhow. Should it?
Does it make any difference?
If it makes no difference, then humanity should not have evolved anyways.

Because it makes a difference it has become a tautologically oppressive anti-power, argued differentially, from the flatlined reasoning of pure logic.

That is the difference between Frege/Wittgenstein and Russell, besides the primary difference of the definition of substance.

Do you really think that there is such a difference between them?

Remember:

Arminius wrote:The founder of the modern mathematical logic (=> logistic, symbolic logic ...) was Gottlob Frege (1848-1925), the spiritual father of Bertrand Russel (1872-1970) and of Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951).
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:58 am

Yes I do. The source is the same, but the effect is different with them.
Russell held to a material substantive, whereas Frege, et. al held to a non material, essential substance.

The significance lies in how this difference influenced people like Quine, and those in the behavioral sciences, who saw a focus on behaviorally based pragmatic-empirical determinants, versus those who sought analysis through linguistic determinants.
There was dissent within the Vienna Circle in respect to it.

Russell was opposed through his upholding a synthesis, as a neo-Kantian idea of his 'sense-data', which is a literal equal of an idea as representation. Critiques reduced this into the absurd notion of the sense(of the sense((of the sense(((of the sense............of......data) )) )))......unto an infinite sequence. This reduction, they claimed totally destroyed the sense of data as material. The detractors, therefore, counter claimed, that the material was essential a representation of pure logic.

And science has never resolved this issue. Absent any formal conciliation, beyond certain limits, the exactness of applications beyond those limits remain in exact.

in case at hand are certain mathematical-logical paradigmns to which data should be expected to ascribe to.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:41 pm

Gottlob Frege influenced everyone, also Edmund Husserl who followed Frege especially by adopting his distinction between logic and psychology (cp. Frege's "Sinn und Bedeutung") which led Husserl to his kind of phenomenology.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:46 pm

And this is partly why the split between Continental existentialism, and Anglo empiricism, post WW2 became (mind) set.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:15 pm

jerkey wrote:And this is partly why the split between Continental existentialism, and Anglo empiricism, post WW2 became (mind) set.

No. (1.) I would not go so far and speak of a "split", and (2.) there was not only an English or, as you say, an Anglo empirism but also a German or, as you say, a Continental empirism. The Berliner Kreis (Berlinese Circle, a.k.a. Berliner Gesellschaft für empirische Philosophie) and the Wiener Kreis (Vienese Circle) founded the Neupositivismus (Neopositivism), also known as Logischer Empirismus (Logical Empirism).
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:10 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:The problem is that "being conscious" is defined differently.

I know, you define "consciousness" as "remote recognition".

It is always up to you to decide what it is that YOU mean when YOU say "consciousness" (or anything else). So just precisely and unambiguously explain what YOU mean by the word. If it isn't too much different than what others seem to mean, maybe they can get their answers too.

Consciousness is the immediately findable total content of the spiritual and emotional (affective) experience.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:22 pm

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:The problem is that "being conscious" is defined differently.

I know, you define "consciousness" as "remote recognition".

It is always up to you to decide what it is that YOU mean when YOU say "consciousness" (or anything else). So just precisely and unambiguously explain what YOU mean by the word. If it isn't too much different than what others seem to mean, maybe they can get their answers too.

Consciousness is the immediately findable total content of the spiritual and emotional (affective) experience.

"Immediately findable total content.."
Ummm...?? :-?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:57 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Consciousness is the immediately findable total content of the spiritual and emotional (affective) experience.

"Immediately findable total content.."
Ummm...?? :-?

The term "immediately findable total content" means that the total content of the spiritual and emotional experience can be immediately found and, for example, communicated to others. Not all content is always present. Forgotten content, for example, is not present anymore, and some parts of the forgotten content come back sometimes, ... and so on.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:41 am

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Consciousness is the immediately findable total content of the spiritual and emotional (affective) experience.

"Immediately findable total content.."
Ummm...?? :-?

The term "immediately findable total content" means that the total content of the spiritual and emotional experience can be immediately found and, for example, communicated to others. Not all content is always present. Forgotten content, for example, is not present anymore, and some parts of the forgotten content come back sometimes, ... and so on.

So consciousness, "spiritual and emotional content", is "found" .. by what?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:09 am

JSS,

By what? The soul, the seat of consciousness.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:17 am

"Soul" is too vague to be used in an analytical definition (but then so is "spiritual experience").
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:22 am

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:The term "immediately findable total content" means that the total content of the spiritual and emotional experience can be immediately found and, for example, communicated to others. Not all content is always present. Forgotten content, for example, is not present anymore, and some parts of the forgotten content come back sometimes, ... and so on.

So consciousness, "spiritual and emotional content", is "found" .. by what?

I did not say "is found" but "can be found" or "is immediately findable", namely by the owner of the consciousness, philosophically said: by the subject. This is important, because the owner of the consciousness does not always immediately find the spiritual and emotional content.

Biologically and especially neurologically said, the consciousness is part of the brain.

Arminius wrote:Image
1) Dark blue: Instinct brain.
2) Pink: Kleinhirn (cerebellum).
3) Red: Emotion brain.
4) Light blue: Reason brain.

Now, neurologically and psychoanalytically, Freud would perhaps say that the instinct brain is neurologically what the "Es" (in English: "Id") and "das Unbewußte" (English: "the unconscious") psychoanalytically is, that the reason brain is what the "Ich" (English: "I", "ego""self") and "das Bewußte" (English: "the conscious") psychoanalytically is.

The conscious parts of the brain can be found in the reason brain (light blue => 4), in the emotion brain (red => 3), and in the Kleinhirn (cerebellum [pink => 2]).

But because of the fact that we are talking about this more philosophically, we have to talk about the owner of the consciousness: the subject.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:20 am

"The owner" and "the soul" are pretty much the same terms and don't really tell us much of anything. Are you certain that the consciousness is not "the owner"? If not, who/what is "the owner"? Precisely what is it that is potentially finding that emotional content? What is it doing when not finding it?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 24517
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:31 am

James S Saint wrote:"The owner" and "the soul" are pretty much the same terms and don't really tell us much of anything. Are you certain that the consciousness is not "the owner"? If not, who/what is "the owner"? Precisely what is it that is potentially finding that emotional content? What is it doing when not finding it?

One can also say that the consciousness itself is the owner - it depends on the so-called "point of view". This was the exact reason why I opened a thread dealing with a "superconsciousness". Do you remember?
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:37 am

JSS,

(Not you Arm, not in the mood for your shenanigans) MM wrote
To me the soul is not mystical and vapid (vapid, really?). It has dimensions, a placement within a human body, a job that it does, and a disposition or essence (facets) that transcends time. It also has memory, but without an emotional framework.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:47 am

A thought, the vast memory of the soul has no emotional context due to a conflict with the soul's primary function to process emotions, the pinnacle of experiences.

What if emotions are the source of consciousness? What type of being or machine could convert an emotion into an electric energy signal?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:13 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:(Not you Arm, not in the mood for your shenanigans) ....

It seems that you are in the mood for your shenanigans.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:16 am

Arm,

You are wrongly fixated on the brain, sorry.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:25 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:
What type of being or machine could convert an emotion into an electric energy signal

Emotions emanate from thoughts and thoughts are electrical signals firing in the brain
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:28 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:Arm,

You are wrongly fixated on the brain, sorry.

Stop derailing this thread, Maniacal. Personal attacks are not needed here. And if you really want to be in the mood for your own shenanigans, then do it in another thread - not in my thread.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:31 am

Perceptual sensations are what is firing, processing in the brain. Show me proof that that is where a thought, a reaction takes place.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:34 am

Arminius wrote:
Maniacal Mongoose wrote:Arm,

You are wrongly fixated on the brain, sorry.

Stop derailing this thread, Maniacal. Personal attacks are not needed here. And if you really want to be in the mood for your own shenanigans, then do it in another thread - not in my thread.


Being told that you are wrong is an attack, are you a democrat? I have been speaking to the content so stop ragging Arm.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:57 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:
Perceptual sensations are what is firing processing in the brain. Show me proof that that is where a thought a reaction takes place

All consciousness emanates from the brain. Whether you call it perceptual sensation or thought is academic. Without a brain there is none
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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