The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

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Does life make sense?

Yes.
15
63%
No.
5
21%
I don't know.
4
17%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Some Guy in History » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:06 pm

If life ever makes nonsense, then know that the truest sense has already been made and it still didn't make sense without the nonsense.
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:33 pm

Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous once randomness is understood
Because statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:58 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous once randomness is understood
Because statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible

I am afraid that that is not 100% true.

It is still a bit questionable whether "randomness is understood" and whether "statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible".
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:37 am

Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:53 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous once randomness is understood
Because statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible

surreptitious57 wrote:Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known

That does not prove what you said before: "Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous ...."

Questions about the meaning of life do not have to, but can even become more important in that case.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:44 am

Arminius wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous ..."

Questions about the meaning of life do not have to, but can even become more important in that case.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:55 am

oops! ... suppose there is no rational connection to previous posts.

Scanning the recent posts reminds me of Nietzsche ... and I know frightfully little about the man or his writings.

Here's my take on the man ...

1) His raison d'etre ... his life's purpose ... the meaning of his life ... was ---> attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of God ... the coffin science had been building ... and nailing shut ... for centuries.

2) The people of his day wanted this ... they were fed up with all the dribble about God ... whatever/whoever He/She/It was.

3) Nietzsche achieved his life's purpose ... subsequent generations found ... personally experienced ... the meaning(less) of life ... the purpose(less) of life ... the direction(less) of life ... ergo nihilism.

4) If history has any value ... this is a recurring pattern ... and the result is almost always the same. God suddenly and viciously inflicts a severe punishment.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:14 am

Arminius wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous once randomness is understood
Because statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible

surreptitious57 wrote:
Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known

That does not prove what you said before: Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous ..
Questions about the meaning of life do not have to but can even become more important in that case

There cannot be any objective meaning to life if it occurred randomly which it did. Even if life did not occur randomly
that would still not imply meaning. Asking what is the meaning of life is a loaded question because it assumes there is
a meaning. If it could be objectively determined then it would be known. But it cannot because it is purely subjective
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:36 am

Life could appear to have sense going foreward with the idea of having or gaining a will to power the need to develop more control over the choices a person takes to make sense.

In retrospect, even though people tend to remember mostly good events in their lifetime, a lucid and good memory serves well to negate that optimistism.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:42 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Arminius wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous once randomness is understood
Because statistical improbability and divine purpose tend not to be mutually compatible

surreptitious57 wrote:
Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known

That does not prove what you said before: Questions about the meaning of life become superfluous ..
Questions about the meaning of life do not have to but can even become more important in that case

There cannot be any objective meaning to life if it occurred randomly which it did. Even if life did not occur randomly
that would still not imply meaning. Asking what is the meaning of life is a loaded question because it assumes there is
a meaning. If it could be objectively determined then it would be known. But it cannot because it is purely subjective

No, or let us say: that is only half a truth (if "half a truth" is possible at all). You do not know whether life is "occured randomly" or not (##). The question whether there is a meaning of life does always make sense, and people always ask this question. It does not assume that "there is a meaning", as you suggest (probably because you yourself assume that there is no meaning). It is just a question. Everyone may find an answer to this question, regardless which answer it is. An objevctive answer is possible too (I am not saying that I know this answer for sure). That is the reason why I opened this thread.

If you assume that there is no meanig of life for you, then just say that there is "no meaning of life for you" (again: for you!). You have no objective - but only a subjective (##) - argument against those who say that there is an objective meaning of life. There is no proof of the thesis that there is no meaning of life.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:23 am

The conditions which allowed life to evolve were most definitely random. As the number of variables and the time scale involved
are evidence of this. Now given how this is entirely fortuitous there can be no objective meaning to life as such. Because if it did
not evolve [ something that was entirely possible ] then such a meaning could simply not exist. But the fact that it did is entirely
incidental because as soon as the human race becomes extinct then so too will notions of meaning both subjective and objective
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Kathrina » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:57 pm

Randomness has not much to do with the question whether life makes sense. It is a fact that life is everywhere in the universe where it has got a chance. Our universe tends to life.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arminius » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:03 am

Arminius wrote:
MagsJ wrote:To me.. life makes sense, but not our existence.

But, Mags ( :P ), how can life make sense to you and your existence not make sense to you?

All life is existence, but not all existence is life.

So: If your existence is senseless, then your your life is senseless too. Or (the other way around): If your existence makes sense, then your life makes sense too.

Have a nice existence by having a nice life. :)
MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:But, Mags ( :P ), how can life make sense to you and your existence not make sense to you?

Because Arminius ( ;) ), 'our' existence as a species is an odd rarity, and the reason and purpose for that existence still an unknown... if everything has purpose, what is ours? beyond a life that makes sense, but an existence that does not.

All life is existence, but not all existence is life.

So: If your existence is senseless, then your your life is senseless too. Or (the other way around): If your existence makes sense, then your life makes sense too.

Have a nice existence by having a nice life. :)
One is not dependent on the other to make sense... whilst living our lives, most always have a feeling that there is more/meant to be more than the existence the human race has mapped out for itself.. an action plan that none of us actually signed up to, or perhaps the only prerequisite for this is birth.

Humans as a whole exist, but for what?

So you are saying that the life of the human species makes no sense, whereas the life of a single human being makes sense, at least for you. So perhaps we have to distinguish between evolution and history, between nature and culture or a person. Then the answer to the question of the meaning of life has indeed two sides. A person or a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture can have a goal, so that life makes sense, probably because of getting respect, the will to power, or/and just because of each moment. This could also mean that the life of the human species makes sense. But can we know that for sure? Maybe there is only a subjective answer possible, an answer of a person, a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture - if each of them is a subject. The objective meaning could be the framework condition of evolution or nature, for example the fight against the entropy, or the completion, the achievement, the perfection of what was set or placed with its earliest beginning, the fertilizaition, conception.

The human species is merely a zoological concept. But a human as a person or humans as another subject - like a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture - can have, should have and often do have a goal which shows that their life makes sense, has a meaning.

By the way: It is possible too that the „Brexit“ can become a meaning of life to you, if you spend your life time with it (and - perhaps - get power because of it). :)

Kathrina wrote:Randomness has not much to do with the question whether life makes sense. It is a fact that life is everywhere in the universe where it has got a chance. Our universe tends to life.

Agreed.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon May 01, 2017 3:08 pm

MagsJ wrote:What is our goal as a species?


MagsJy,

I love the blues in your avatar.


I don't think that there could ever be ONLY one answer to your question as we are individuals with our own particular lives. There cannot either be ONLY one goal.

I've read some school of thought which says that our goal is to become like gods.


Some might say, to which I agree, that it is to guard and perpetuate our own species along with that of all other species. We haven't been doing the greatest job here - sometimes we fail and sometimes we are continuing to exceed.

Some might say that it is to grow and to learn everything there is to learn about our universe, both the universe within and the outer universe. (I think that goes towards "to become like gods".) That is not really speaking heresy ~~ for those who are religious. That may simply mean coming to full total consciousness ~~ not that that is totally possible ~~ like the pure light energy (for lack of a better expression) which created the universe.

Then there is the goal in which we seek to discover what our goal[s] are and which ones make sense and are capable of furthering all species.

...et cetera... There are as many different goals to reach for as there are different fish in the sea.

The so-called meaning of life is like the goal perception. One size DOES NOT FIT ALL.

Could there actually BE meaning to life without the observer who ponders it, interprets it, and experiences it?

Sometimes our lives, our existences ~ which IS life flowing through us ~ make great sense. When it does not, it is only because, obviously, we cannot make sense of it and we struggle to. The more we struggle, the less it makes sense.

I once wrote a poem when a part of my life was not making sense. The clarify only came to me as I watched a little seagull body surf. The ocean was pushing him into these rocks. Back and forth, flowing and ebbing he went. Did it bother him at all? No, he seemed to be so in tune with it all. Flowing and ebbing, flowing and ebbing, he rode those waves. I wonder what it feels like to a seagull who rides the waves? lol I watched him and by the time he flew away, I understood.

Life made sense to him.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby MagsJ » Mon May 22, 2017 6:44 pm

Arminius wrote:But, Mags ( :P ), how can life make sense to you and your existence not make sense to you?

All life is existence, but not all existence is life.

So: If your existence is senseless, then your your life is senseless too. Or (the other way around): If your existence makes sense, then your life makes sense too.

Have a nice existence by having a nice life. :)
Our existence is a mystery, but my life isn't.. I know how I came to be, but how did we come to be.

So you are saying that the life of the human species makes no sense, whereas the life of a single human being makes sense, at least for you. So perhaps we have to distinguish between evolution and history, between nature and culture or a person. Then the answer to the question of the meaning of life has indeed two sides. A person or a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture can have a goal, so that life makes sense, probably because of getting respect, the will to power, or/and just because of each moment. This could also mean that the life of the human species makes sense. But can we know that for sure? Maybe there is only a subjective answer possible, an answer of a person, a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture - if each of them is a subject. The objective meaning could be the framework condition of evolution or nature, for example the fight against the entropy, or the completion, the achievement, the perfection of what was set or placed with its earliest beginning, the fertilizaition, conception.

The human species is merely a zoological concept. But a human as a person or humans as another subject - like a couple, a family, a kin, a clan, a tribe, a nation, a culture - can have, should have and often do have a goal which shows that their life makes sense, has a meaning.
Yes.. we have made sense of our lives and living (normality permitting) but our existence keeps us constantly on the back foot of confusion.

By the way: It is possible too that the „Brexit“ can become a meaning of life to you, if you spend your life time with it (and - perhaps - get power because of it). :)
Brexit is simply about regaining control of our country back, from a corrupt EU organisation with self-appointed power-mad and money-hungry officials.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Exuberant Teleportation » Mon May 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Each End of Everywhere could be connected to the Mountaintop, its core roots, the value of a sphere that can be woven above the risky currents and the dangerous flows divide a triumph through flags of conquest and an avalanche of a fissure drains the ozone layer beyond melted shells or coverings extended over transformation, or raising the pie charts and probabilities of failure, sabotage, disaster, death, staying underground, or avoiding levity, even vacations slay a yawning channel breaking engines and establishing bounce, so if we could defy gravity, sink through a very slow fall into their air, gradually assume more liquid or float like forms, flavors and rough forks flipped into music could satisfy a peace.

That's kind of confusing, or there could be doors and sidewalks, different passageways or alternatives for vaporizing a smoking oracle ball renders a clear vase of liquid light breathing aerial sweeping through clouds and formulas preexisting or having a philosopher's treasure hunt, so maybe it's how far we entail conspiracies, wake up to the climb of texts skyrocketing language through the roof of feet and travel to go anywhere, see and do anything with maximum entertainment, not being limited in the span of distance, but just imagining yourself there, prized, alive, welcoming, and wishing big.

Perhaps reality could fulfill any thin film of fuming alchemical solutions from other planets, or racing open on a heated checker board that drops a time bomb, a limit to how long you can wait before moving or, perhaps with lakes on a canvas, or texture riding cravings for water being flavor filled rather than food, or excitement for new sense and discovery lifting the veil to the evening, bringing your face to rule on the moon and be seen everywhere, by being bigger and stronger than all terrestrial life, you can alienate yourself from society, stay away from its concerns and problems, push a shackle on extra pains, no longer be tormented, haunted, ruined, sought after for a worse or less promising existence, so if one were sufficiently devoid of passions, not concerned by immediate comforts, then our focus could penetrate with great ease through a trial of realizations and lightningbolt quick reasoning, finding the chain as a line, or being able to put any accomplishment out there imaginable.

But, more than anything, with a big and strong imagination, all of life comes alive.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue May 30, 2017 6:37 pm

and at the beginning, middle and end of the fucking day, the meaning of life is still; at it's core; 'to live'. Very easy to make sense out of, therefore the answer is 'yes' to does it make sense, which makes you really question why this thread needed to be so damned long.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed May 31, 2017 7:15 am

Kathrina wrote:
It is a fact that life is everywhere in the universe where it has got a chance

There is no evidence for this statement at all even if its premise is true
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed May 31, 2017 7:21 am

Kathrina wrote:
Our universe tends to life

Life tends to the universe
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed May 31, 2017 10:55 am

surreptitious57 wrote:Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known


Randomness simply means that every possible outcome is equal in probability to every other. We can speak of randomness only in the absence of prior observations. Once you take into account prior observations, there can be no room for randomness since there is always some kind of bias.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed May 31, 2017 11:38 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Randomness just means where there are multiple possibilities no single
outcome can be guaranteed because not all of the variables are known

Randomness simply means that every possible outcome is equal in probability to every other. We can speak of randomness only in the absence
of prior observations. Once you take into account prior observations there can be no room for randomness since there is always some kind of bias

Some outcomes may be more or less probable than others so not all are necessarily equally probable
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed May 31, 2017 12:39 pm

I am describing randomness. Randomness means equally probable outcomes. There is no such a thing once you take into account memory of events that have been experienced in the past. In other words, randomness is an expression of ignorance or blindness or forgetfulness or laziness. It either means having no experience or memory of it or it means making no effort to discover patterns in what has been experienced in the past.

Meaning . . . that's just a formula for calculating what's going to happen in the future based on what happened in the past.

Data has no meaning.
But meaning is based on data.

"The universe has meaning" means "I have processed all of my past and now I have a clear sense of what's more likely to occur in the future and what's less likely to occur".

"The universe has no meaning" means "I struggle to process all of my past so I am quite unsure as to what's more likely to occur in the future and what's less likely to do so".

No past, no meaning.
Forget everything and you're left with nothing but infinite possibilities that are equally probable.

Will the Sun rise tomorrow?
We don't know. Maybe, maybe not.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:15 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Will the Sun rise tomorrow

The Sun does not rise but it will carry on converting hydrogen into helium for another five billion years because that is what stars do
So even though this event has still to occur there is no doubt that it actually will for some future events can be accurately predicted
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:30 am

Hmmm, the Sun does not rise. That's being unnecessarily pedantic. My point being precisely that these are models of reality we're speaking of here and not reality itself. You're trying to reduce these models to a single model and to dismiss all others as being incorrect.
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Re: The Meaning of Life. Does life make sense?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:32 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:If life ever makes nonsense, then know that the truest sense has already been made and it still didn't make sense without the nonsense.


I imagine that what you mean by "truest sense" is meaningfulness. If that is the case, this is also true for me too. How can we "know" something without it's opposite to compare it to ~~ if that made any sense to you. :evilfun:

If you could be anyone in history, who might it be?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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