Posters and Moderation

Well, that confirms the sense I had that you considered yourself finished.

Ah, just realized you mean Iambiguous. A few times you mention people’s names, like say, Eugene, and I have wondered if you know all the personal nicknames of people here. Or you are referring to people I have never encountered.

Though as I have said to Iamb, I find him to be nearly entirely ‘up there’. For him down here is discussion John and Mary’ decision. And learning by experience, other than the experience of arguing via abstractions, is not on the table for him. He does not come across, as you have, as considering himself finished, until you interact with him. Then the finished and impervious become clear or at least, seem clear. I do not know what shifts are taking place behind the mask of the internet. But in practical terms as Iambiguous. I am not saying this merely to trash him, but to note the tricks in disentangling up there and down here. Down here will often be lived through the filters up there, including of course, what up there tells you you cannot know and does not exist. The blind spot in our vision is not interesting because of what we miss most of the time in that patch, but rather the filling in the mind does so we do not see the blind spot. In fact the whole field of vision is in part created as a guess. (I know you know this. I follow lines in my communication.) To Iamb both you and I foolishly ignore Occams’ Razor. We add entities needlessly. You have a fully worked out metaphysics and thus view physics form a completed system, and critique physics from that vantage. I also have a metaphyics, but I am not interested in organizing it in the way you have and then moving towards physics from it. I know there are entities and phenomena that current scientific consensus rules out because they sit uneasily - they think at least - with their models. For me this is empirically based, though I have come critically at this consensus via the philosophy of language - delaing with their metaphors and models - which they tend not to be savvy about, and then also via epistemology. But for me an issue like say, what the results of the double split experiments mean, is not so important, though I like aiming back at mainstream consensus their own consensus opinions which often do not fit with current models and how they rule things out. I am scattershot here, where you are precise and step by step. I have focused more on honing intuition and clearing brainwashing.

That old experiment where you hypnotize someone and tell them there is no chair in the room. This creates a negative hallucination. They will say there is no chair. They would pass a lie detector while saying there is not chair. But they will avoid walking into it. When asked they will justify why they changed direction. Which is a lovely metaphor or really example of how the minds works. Occam, who considered God the only entity that could not be questioned or be superfluous, has been used maliciously as if there are only positive hallucinations. As if dasein could not suppress as well as interpret. I find this the hardest thing for most people to imagine, their possible negative hallucinations. Well, that and getting people to see the full range of consequences of the beliefs they keep insisting they have, but actually only have compartmentalized from their other contradictory beliefs.

You can build a self top down or bottom up of via a combination. I used the former to give direction to the latter and give permission to the latter. You seem to have worked top down. These things make our approaches quite different.

But either way one must have courage. Not the running up the hill to take the machine gun nest courage, which may well be something else other than courage anyway.

Had to look up SAM Coops. I am taking this as literal. A group of people, re social, but the anentropic I am unsure of. I am assuming it is not that the group is literally non-entropic, or at least, this is not all they are. Oddly when I look at the phrase Social Anentropic Molecularism, it comes off as sounding rather Deleuzian, but I find it hard to believe you would have much in common with Deleuze. I can see the term in a number of posts here and have looked through a number of these. I can interpret it as what for most would be a kind of science fictiony term or as a state of consciousness. Presumably it is a balance point, but from there I am not sure. In any case I do not know what kind of ‘actually living’ which you mention below, this would lead to.

This is not a philosophical journal. It is not a collection of papers. It is not a set of formal debates. In fact the title of the forum contains an emotion.

It is not the I am precise philosophically forums. It is I love philosophy. That it’s title is centered on affect - not in the broad Jamesian sense of affect but emotions - is not coincidental to how the communication is carried out here. I doubt anyone actually thinks that formal philosophy includes insults.

AFter our long history as a species we have come to realize, at least some of us, that clear, seemingly logical, cooly presented ideas can lead to the deaths of millions. Calmly stated ideas, but people whose blood pressure stays at normal levels throughout speaking can, if believed, lead to patterns of self-hate and acceptance of tyranny.

I am sure there are posters who feel, if not always think, that when they insulted, they won a round. They might not say that an insult can replace a good argument, but the having just insulted quale gives them a state of satisfaction the functions as if that were the case.

And yes, this is a problem. At the same time, this is a meeting of persons, not merely the meeting of ideas. It is also a membrane where ideas meet organisms. Part of our reactions to the intrusion of ideas is emotional. Emotions are part of the cognitive immune system. Of course this does not mean that if idea X makes person B angry or scared, idea X must be wrong. Hardly. Most humans are confused, hyper or hypoallergic. So there are many ‘wrong’ but real reactions.

But to rule out the emotional reactions is a bad idea, I think.

It is an appealing idea to those who want to control and suppress their own emotions and whose skills are in the upper chakras and on the white side of those chakras.

It is a problem when emotional responses are conflated with arguments, but they have a place in interactions. There are many reasons for this. Even if the person in question is ‘wrong’ or wrong, their reaction is part of reality. Their emotional reaction. Too often the idea men have come and pushed changed and changed the surface, and never dealt with the deeper issues locked in the unconscious or based on intuition. In fact the idea men often have known much less than they realize and the people they considered irrational understood, but on a more intuitive level, the problems that would arise from accepting the seemingly utterly rational arguments. There are other reasons, but it would take more effort than I want to make now to present them.

Insults come out of that. That does not mean that any particular instance of an insult is a good thing, but I do not want the restriction. It is good however to point out when an insult or outbursts is being presented as an argument.

But then from the other side. So much hatred can be containing in cool impersonal language and via implication. And it is very hard to show to the colder minds what they are actually doing here.

The outburst need not be seen as a logical step in an argument, but a necessary expression in a process for the person expressing it. And by the way, that his not a condescending analysis. That person may well be correct. The logical or ‘logical’ ideas coming at them may well contain real violence and hatred of life, but the demonstration of this is, at this moment, or even longer term, impossible to do for the person prsenting those logical or seemingly logical ideas. The outburst is a placemaker. Like an objection that is noted in the soul of the person making the outburst.

I would not want a rule to remove them.

I tend to agree, though I am likely to consider a much broader set of valid intents.

Two ‘northerners’ who we know through their writing, where they did not throw hissy fits. Who knows how they would have behaved meeting each other or us in a social setting or on the internet. So two issues. A specific cultural approach being presented as superior, but without justification, based on not necessarily relevent evidence, their writings. But also as I argued above, we have seen how the calm proliferation of ideas can cause real world deaths and also the diminishment of life (though guilt - ideas of Original Sin, say or judgments of sexuality by cooler less passionate minds who need control - or instilled self-hatred, or the implicit denials of selfhood found in many religions and in collectivized philosophies like various communisms or the shame and self-hatred that is created by calmly presented ideas about capitalism). Sometimes calm ideas have a great deal of hate or condescension in them and an outburst is natural and healthy response. To presume that the other person would see their own hatred if presented with some, necessarily incredibly long presentation to have a chance, is not grounded in reality. To call a Monsanto PR person an apologist for death, however calmly he was presenting the ‘research findings’ is not somethign I want to rule out, even here in a philosophy forum. Bystanders may also find themselves woken up out of the trance the ‘logical’ spell has them in. This does not mean that if someone is insulted we should assume they are wrong or bad. It does mean that sometimes an outburst breaks the spell, says no, forms a wall. To go on in those situations ONLY arguing calmly and logially is dishonest, because to do so implies that it is one kind of interaction when really it is another kind of interaction.

I think this is speculative at best. Adn their distaste at the way people move today - having freed their bodies from Puritanical restrictions - or any of a number of others things we have gotten used and this are fine - might well be rather fierce. But that is also speculative.

Sure, no one can rest easy these days. Those days are gone.

Exactly. :handgestures-thumbupright:

Now put the person’s view of his own behavior as the chair. :sunglasses:

Yes, that is as a norm analogous to the chair. And I have some sympathy for the ego just trying to get through a stressful day without also seeing that chair. But nevertheless, despite my sympathy, at least some of us must notice the chair. And notice those moments when we caught just the slightest whiff that we reacted to something we did not notice was there. To have the courage to like a tracking dog follow those nearly fully dissipated chemical swirls before they are gone. That has been my bottom up approach, in a sense. Though given how the emotions are entangled in that, they have also been central.

“This thread is not about retards. I dismissed them from the very beginning. They do not deserve that much importance as you are thinking”

See that? That’s that aryan Hindu virtu shining through; zinnat’s stern nobility expresses itself in the natural authoritative inclination to honor and sustain a caste system of ranks, with retards at he lower levels. This for zinnat is an instinct, a mere trifle to be dismissed with imperious disregard… not so easy if you are an englishman, woman, or christian. What the European man lacks is this ethos, and zinnat can be a beacon of insight and hope for him.

“This thread is not about retards. I dismissed them from the very beginning. They do not deserve that much importance as you are thinking”

See that? That’s that aryan Hindu virtu shining through; zinnat’s stern nobility expresses itself in the natural authoritative inclination to honor and sustain a caste system of ranks, with retards at he lower levels. This for zinnat is an instinct, a mere trifle to be dismissed with imperious disregard… not so easy if you are an englishman, woman, or christian. What the European man lacks is this ethos, and zinnat can be a beacon of insight and hope for him.

Zoot,

I think that just like Turd, you also need to read the OP carefully again.

I did not dismiss retards because of any superiority/inferiority issue but for the simple reason that they not come near to any such forum whose name includes philosophy, thus no need to discuss about those. Simple as that.

So again, going by the literal definition of retard, there is no one here. Contrary to what you are thinking, i am saying that there is no retard at ILP. Do you understand what I meant to say!

Yes, we have more and less knowledgeable, good and bad mannered, and people of right and wrong intent ( only philosophy wise, not in general terms ) at ILP, the same for other forums too.

You seem to be somewhat offended by the OP, though I am not sure why. It looks to me that perhaps you are thinking I consider many other posters inferior to me and thus do not want to engage with them, but that is not the case, at least to me.

Knowledge was/is never the criteria for me to respect/care anyone. I always give more importance to intent. I have more respect for retards than those who are knowledgeable but do not have right intent, be it internet philosophy or even real life.

Secondly, contrary to what you said about me being pride Aryan or so, I do not think that high of myself. Perhaps you have not read my all posts, I have said manytimes that I rate myself quite low as far as philosophy is concerned. My area of interest is slightly different, and yes, I am certainly far above than average in that vertical.

Lastly, no matter how much people take offence of this, but this is reality that we all are not the same in any way. Blame it to evolution, nature, God or something else, we are not carbon copies of each other.

Forget of human constructs like caste for a momemt, do we all have a same face, same features, same height, same weight, same body structure, same beauty quotient etc? If not, what is a big deal if we do not have the same mental abilities, or the same fate!

Yes, one thing is certainly common that we all are humans and that should be remembered always too. And, that quality alone is more than enough to respect and consider all humans equal, irrespective of all other differences. If you ask my take on equality, I consider all living beings equals, including animals, at par with humans.

Though, I am not a supporter of cast system or any other devide by any means, but I see this labeling all over the world, though through different names.

In India, it is cast system, the same thing is being done through the skin colors in the US, or by the name of religions in Europe right now, and lastly, the labeling of rich and poor will always find place if there is no other one else. So, as long the humans are on this planet, this labeling will also remain there, in one way or another.

Perhaps, it is my choice of words that is giving the wrong impression to some posters. I think that I should have used " excluded " in spite of " dismissed ". Though, I am not sure whether that would have been helped or not.

With love,
Sanjay

I don’t think changing that word makes much difference. You could mull over the term

This implies the vantage of someone who is fully evolved and superior.

I do think people can be superior, but the ideas implicit in the evaluation of the degree of ‘evolvedness’ that seems a little ookie to me, given the ways ‘evolved’ has been evaluated in certain traditions.

Hmmm… what is happening in New Delhi? 10 million people without water… because one caste felt agreived, for being considered “too high caste”, meant they couldn’t qualify for affirmative action… so they stormed the water system, denied million of people water. Wont be on for days.

Prior to this, some fucking cussing would of been proper, people screeching fucking pissed, lighting flags on fire and throwing mudpies at lawmakers. In terms of social sciences, this is a clear case of the need to pause, take note, and listen. Historically, so of our best politicians have risen from listening to this venom… gone out and tried to figure out how to resolve it.

Decorum isn’t supposed to reign till everyone goes nuts, shuts down the public works raving mad, inevitably killing hundreds if not thousands through dehydration and kidney failure. This us a failure if a society failing to use its curse words, and use them effectively. If you gotta send out your military to resolve a situation, it’s a clear sign something went wrong.

How do we resolve this? By saying “Fuck You”. Everyone say it with me, or at me, now… “FUCK YOU”. It is a conveyor of complex information. Says “Listen to me” and “I am very much not pleased”. Saying them without the curse won’t lead to people paying attention… you go up to someone who is fucking everyone over and say “I am not pleased with your actions”… they are unlikely to change. They will scoff 90% of the time, only a subset of personalities react positively to such decorum. They think horrible things happen through words… that’s the worst. Language police in full force. Better to bury problems, than to take them seriously. Everything can be said in ways we appreciate.

Doesn’t occur to them at all a lot if the repressed violent outbursts in society flow through this. Parlimentry procedure in a city council resolves the flow of information for city councils, but not for angry, pissed off crowds if consistuents. The very core of democracy is chucking that parliamejtry rule out the window and just getting your ass cursed the fuck out, talking to the ringleaders.

Its no different in philosophy on the whole. Natural philosophy covers all angles of consciousness, not just a very minded subset of “Zinnati says” or “Only Humean Says” or “Magsj Says” or even “Turd Ferguson Says”. What is far more important us keeping the dialectics as wide and unhindered between us, be it in a forum or publication, and allow the greatest measure of free speech possible, with as much variation in response possible as we can. Cussing can be tactical… I use it as such, many people, I don’t use it, and not all situations even with the ones I do. If it doesn’t fit for the mindset I’m trying to culture or turn, I don’t use it. You can see it with James too… he is fond of cussing and in his case lying, but it’s tactical to defend his position when threatened. He tried it on me a few weeks back with Lavoy Finnicum, was a disaster on his part (perhaps if he had a case I would of been unnerved). He got a chance to learn it doesn’t work against certain thinkers. Same with Jakob and his Turd Thread… backfired like a motherfucker for him. I even have a thread where I’m teaching Cezar/Historyboy how to curse philosophically, we danced all over the place, was a very pleasant and informative experience.

Cursing one another out can be a culturally fulfilling experience, that raises the bar for debate, open up new paths to knowledge, and cause us to reconsider our mindsets relative to others. It truely us the Eight Wonder of the Ancient World, and I look back to a great number of ancient and modern philosophers for my debt to them in this regard. When I call somebody a cocksucker, I feel closer to the great philosophers in history. Its a unending chain, from past to present, cursing out everyone in the world. I’m especially thankful to the Cynics, who were well practiced in this branch of rhetoric. Our modern system of denouncing politicians is a direct descendent from them. Truly, the modern world cannot long survive without everyone cursing each other out, but we wouldn’t long last through the introduction of a absolute, inhumane decorum. Civil War is sure to erupt as a result.

Truly I say, from my heart, Fuck All Of You, and may my sentiments towards you forever make you self conscious. May it make you into better men, better thinkers, better philosopher.

If you have to be a retard, try to be a good retard … or at least good at it.

Is it possible to fail at being a retard?

James,

You are well aware of my limitations of english, still i would like to give it a try.

You are taking very broad interpretation of retardness, which includes all except some rare perfect ones. One does not need absolutely perfect intellect and knowledge to escape retardness. Merely taking some steps in that direction would serve the purpose.

Let us take a different but similar term to understand this. Take uneducated. Like retard or retarded, it is also in the past sense. Now, how would you define uneducated?

Would you call only doctorate degree holders educated and everyone else uneducated! I do not think that would be fair to bachelor and master degree holders. Yes, there must be some cutoff line. I think that it would be fair to call high school pass-outs as educated ones and below those uneducated. Having said that, merely becoming able to read and write is still not enough to become educated. There is different and lower term for that stage; literate. But every literate person cannot be considered educated by default. And, then comes illiterate, the last stage.

In the same way, i see stages in intellectuality too. To me, retards are those who yet have not crossed high school benchmark. To translate in the above analogy, they are mere literate in philosophy, not educated.

Thus, in the context of philosophy (read internet along), retards are those who are totally incompetent to observe, deduce and express. Again, i am saying only in the context of philosophy, not general. Means, a philosophically considered retard may be normal in the context of social sites like Facebook, Twitter and in other fields of life.

The cutoff line or eligibility needs to be decided according to the context and purpose. They should not be the same for all fields. And, i think that we follow this simple premise in all verticals of life. Do we not select relatively physically fitter persons for military, or relatively mentally fitter persons for administration? Why do we not use the same physical and mental benchmarks in both selections?

In the same way, why the same thing should and cannot be done in the case of Philosophy forums? Why a philosophy forum cannot have a different and slightly higher benchmark than routine social sites? Is/should be some difference between ILP or Facebook or not?

Let us not lose the actual purpose in the name of free speech or political correctness. Internet philosophy certainly covers more spread than its academic version, yet it would be wise neither to open it for all nor limited to a very few selected ones. The eligibility benchmark should be somewhere between the both extremes, instead of either keeping is extraordinary high or eliminating it totally.

with love,
sanjay

Facebook has been systematically violating free speech across Europe and Asia, and are therefore a integral part of the violence and social strife occurring in those backwards countries. Had they chose to take the higher road and enforced free speech against guys like you, Zinnati, we wouldn’t see so many Asylum Buildings burnt down in Germany and Sweden. The people lost the right to object verbally, in their anger ahead of time. As a result, it’s clandestine arson and psuedo-military police gangs in Europe, and in Asia, lives are loss.

I propose, instead, Zinnati and people like him be charged with crimes against humanity, and locked in a United Nations Detention Center, for advocating for the systematic erosion of the peace, and thought control, and revoking people’s human rights, including the right to free expression.

The actions you propose lead to abuse, loss of freedoms, suppression of free population, subversion, emergence of gangs and tongs, violence and open rebellion. However, freedom of speech leads to keeping such evil bastards at bay. They can’t stand the words of freedom, and shrink away, crawling back into their evil lairs. Free people know never to give such monsters the stick.

The world is a freer place with freedom of speech. People can air their difference, resolve them, leave conflicts. States obsessed with moderation are doomed to develop a siege mentality, and remain eternally tense for false reasons of personality deficiencies, of just a few, subjected on the many.

Its one of the pillars of war, and I reject it. I want freedom instead.

Fuckity Fuckity Fuck Fuck Fuck! PENIS!!!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBpeQbVD1i4

that’s one line of defense for insults. In post you are citing above, I made others.

I was neither arguing with your post nor correcting your English. I was further explaining.

And the difference between “retarded” and “uneducated” is that the former is given to you and the later is not. Uneducated means that you do not have something, “education”. “Retaded” means that you have been slowed down, given slowness relative to an untampered homosapian of your breed. Often retardation leads to the lack of education due to the issue of keeping pace in order to acquire the education.

Zinnat,

That’s not necessarily true, Zinnat. Though there really isn’t any of what you call perfect intellect and knowledge since new information is always being brought to the forefront and one can always learn to use his brain in a more optimal way, no one is perfect in that way…no one is perfect PERIOD. The irrational and nonsensical ways in which we behave often have nothing to do with our intellect and with reason. Someone can be highly intellectual but at the same time quite idiotic.
Someone can be quite the philosopher and still have no wisdom or discipline when it comes to putting what he knows or has learned into the practice of everyday life.

What do you mean here by “in the past sense” and did you mean to say sense or tense?
In our everyday vernacular, retard can be a verb (to slow down) and a noun (as an insult) and the stupidity and laziness of a person to find a more civilized humane way to express one’s self when speaking about special ed people.

  1. Uneducated: Someone who has not had much of an education by most standards perhaps never went to high school.
  2. Uneducation to some may also mean lacking finesse, not knowing how to behave under circumstances where one needs to behave appropriately…not politically correct but logically and reasonably appropriate.
  3. Someone who has learned what needs to be learned and still doesn’t “get it” or “utilize it” may also be seen as uneducated.
    …et cetera.

.
That would depend on the individual and how much further he took to perhaps also educating himself. Let’s not forget all of the books and knowledge that there are out there. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I may be wrong here, Zinnat, but do you view education only in terms of high academics? Maybe I said that incorrectly. I’m a peon when it comes to high education. lol

One thing I will say here. I hate the word "retard’ (it rubs me the wrong way) whether to describe someone who is mentally challenged or as an insult. The way I look at it, there are some people, whether they are highly educated or not, who would not use that terminology. For me, these people are more “educated” than those who think highly of themselves when it comes to “learning”.

I may be wrong here but on a philosophy forum, could there be someone who is TOTALLY INCOMPETENT to observe…et cetera?
I wonder, if places like Facebook, Twitter et cetera, these same people would act in the same way? Venue has nothing to do with anything…wherever we go, we carry ourselves and our egos with us.

[b]bench·mark/ˈben(t)SHmärk/
noun
1.a standard or point of reference against which things may be compared or assessed.
2.a surveyor’s mark cut in a wall, pillar, or building and used as a reference point in measuring altitudes.

verb
evaluate or check (something) by comparison with a standard. [/b]

You don’t think that there IS a much higher standard, intellectually speaking, between a philosophy forum and a place like Facebook (which I absolutely destest)lol? albeit at times the irrational behavior in here is akin to the irrational behavior on facebook.
Irrational aside here, there are some threads in here where food and recipes are discussed sometimes (nothing wrong with this, this is also a social forum) but on facebook, do you ever notice the high degree of focus on what someone has eaten or prepared for dinner or how many drinks they have consumed in one night? Quite boring. Facebook is a sign of the times indeed.

.
Hmmm…if that were the case, they probably wouldn’t let me in. :laughing: So personally I’m glad that’s not the case.
I don’t know Zinnat. Maybe I’m making too much of it but with your statement above, you seem to be going into some territory where boundaries are crossed or at the very least, exclusivity. The last I heard, Carleas thinks of ilp as a democratic forum and I think this is true for the most part. But, since this is a democratic country and for the most part, the rules of a philosophy forum are more or less guided by its owner, within reason and without crossing the boundaries of inalienable rights, I suppose any philosophy forum would have the right to deny access to people who they thought were “not intelligent or knowledgeable enough”. But that seems a bit extreme to me.

I may be wrong here but that seems to be a really wide margin.

With love,
arc :mrgreen:

Zinnat,

I took your statement here at first to mean retardness in the sense of idiotic behavior. You may have meant mental slowness so my first response wouldn’t hold water in that regard.

“Do you understand what I meant to say!”

Yeah I understand you alright… you’re buckling under the pressure because you are in the company of europeans, canadians, Americans, and west virginians. This is to be expected zinnati; your superior culture and politik (spelled that with a k… that’s the intellectual german way to spell it. Now if I said polis instead, I’d get a nod from all the lovers of Greek philosophy) will always be the subject of ridicule and envy for such decadent western inferiors.

“Do you understand what I meant to say!”

Yeah I understand you alright… you’re buckling under the pressure because you are in the company of europeans, canadians, Americans, and west virginians. This is to be expected zinnati; your superior culture and politik (spelled that with a k… that’s the intellectual german way to spell it. Now if I said polis instead, I’d get a nod from all the lovers of Greek philosophy) will always be the subject of ridicule and envy for such decadent western inferiors.

I’m signing myself up to be a moderator on ILP. Who would vote for me?

I would make it compulsive and mandatory for everybody visiting the site to watch midget or clown porn.