Philosophy and Art

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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:20 pm

Do you think that a thought can be illustrated?

Another.

cigarette smoking can cause death.jpg
cigarette smoking can cause death.jpg (9.64 KiB) Viewed 290 times



enlightenment.jpg
enlightenment.jpg (5.83 KiB) Viewed 290 times



ecstatic.jpg
ecstatic.jpg (4.98 KiB) Viewed 290 times


They do it in advertising all of the time.


All you need is to be able to understand a word or phrase by personal experience and it comes into existence.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Alf » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:01 am

All your examples don't and can't show what I've meant. I've meant whether a thought can be illustrated in the way that all humans would do it each time in the same way (your example "thought", for example, does not show this, because it can be interpreted in many, many other ways and from time to time very differently) and whether a picture can be thought by all humans each time in the same way (for example: a planet as a picture and Saturn as the thought always in the same way by all humans, but that is not the case either). What I mean is that we have the subject/object problem here again.

What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?

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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arminius » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:02 am

Alf wrote:What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?

If I may answer:

I think of Alf and would illustrate that thought as follows:
                    Image
:)
Image
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Alf » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:59 pm

Arminius wrote:
Alf wrote:What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?

If I may answer:

I think of Alf and would illustrate that thought as follows:
                    Image
:)

But that’s not what everyone thinks and would illustrate.

I, for example, think of my birth place when I see my avatar and my illustration of this thought would be the birth house, and that is not illustrated in my avatar.

My avatar shows pretty clearly the church and pretty dimly a few houses of the village where I was born, but not my birth house.
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:34 pm

Alf,


What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?


Of course, I may be wrong here but when I see your avatar, aside from what you revealed of it, I think of someone who likes or loves his solitude, likes to enmesh himself in mystery, likes deeper shades and shadows rather then bright sunlight, enjoys a place much less traveled by people, likes to reflect on his life, someone who likes to get up in the early morning before the world gets up and someone who likes to stay up late at night when others have already gone to sleep. Someone who is content and at peace with himself when he has a sense of being all alone in this world.

There is a kind of sacred essence which I glean from the avatar.
Now you can laugh but that is what I sense from the avatar.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arminius » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:58 pm

Alf wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Alf wrote:What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?

If I may answer:

I think of Alf and would illustrate that thought as follows:
                    Image
:)

But that’s not what everyone thinks and would illustrate.

I, for example, think of my birth place when I see my avatar and my illustration of this thought would be the birth house, and that is not illustrated in my avatar.

My avatar shows pretty clearly the church and pretty dimly a few houses of the village where I was born, but not my birth house.

Because you wrote the following text too:

Alf wrote:Food for thought or for illustration.

Do you think that a picture can be thought?
Do you think that a thought can be illustrated?


Is it right that you are saying that there are many differences when it comes to thinking a picture and imaging a thought?
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby MagsJ » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Arminius wrote:The similarities between philosophy and art are not caused by an accident.

What do you think about the similarities, the analogies?

The two are inextricably linked.

From Art and Design, and Poetry and Writing et al, comes Philosophy. We think first, then we feel/express after.
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Alf » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:39 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Alf,


What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?


Of course, I may be wrong here but when I see your avatar, aside from what you revealed of it, I think of someone who likes or loves his solitude, likes to enmesh himself in mystery, likes deeper shades and shadows rather then bright sunlight, enjoys a place much less traveled by people, likes to reflect on his life, someone who likes to get up in the early morning before the world gets up and someone who likes to stay up late at night when others have already gone to sleep. Someone who is content and at peace with himself when he has a sense of being all alone in this world.

There is a kind of sacred essence which I glean from the avatar.
Now you can laugh but that is what I sense from the avatar.

No, I don't laugh, but I don't like shades and shadows more than bright sunlight.

Arminius wrote:
Alf wrote:What do you, for example, think when you see my avatar?
How would you, for example, illustrate this thought?

If I may answer:

I think of Alf and would illustrate that thought as follows:
                    Image
:)
Arminius wrote:
Alf wrote:But that’s not what everyone thinks and would illustrate.

I, for example, think of my birth place when I see my avatar and my illustration of this thought would be the birth house, and that is not illustrated in my avatar.

My avatar shows pretty clearly the church and pretty dimly a few houses of the village where I was born, but not my birth house.

Because you wrote the following text too:

Alf wrote:Food for thought or for illustration.

Do you think that a picture can be thought?
Do you think that a thought can be illustrated?


Is it right that you are saying that there are many differences when it comes to thinking a picture and imaging a thought?

Yes. That's right.
Last edited by Alf on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:17 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:The similarities between philosophy and art are not caused by an accident.

What do you think about the similarities, the analogies?

The two are inextricably linked.

From Art and Design, and Poetry and Writing et al, comes Philosophy. We think first, then we feel/express after.

Are you sure? I mean: Do you always think before you feel? :P
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby MagsJ » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:33 am

Arminius wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:The similarities between philosophy and art are not caused by an accident.

What do you think about the similarities, the analogies?
The two are inextricably linked.

From Art and Design, and Poetry and Writing et al, comes Philosophy. We think first, then we feel/express after.

Are you sure? I mean: Do you always think before you feel? :P

I see you made a funny there...

Even if one was acting on instinct, any actions would still be triggered by a subconscious thought.
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Re: Philosophy and Art

Postby Arminius » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:07 pm

MagsJ wrote:Even if one was acting on instinct, any actions would still be triggered by a subconscious thought.

What is a "subconscious thought" (according to you)?

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