a new understanding of today, time and space.

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:54 pm

as an "thought experiment, let us think about our existence
not, not having any type of meaning or purpose....

what if, life as we understand it, does not have any sort of meaning
or purpose or goal?

what exactly does that mean to us?

well, for one thing, it removes the fixed notion that
"one size fits all"....we cannot just assume that existence
has a point or any type of meaning.....and that Meaning/purpose
whatever that might be, can be attributed to the "one size fits all"
mentality of existence.... that the point of existence is to seek
salvation in which then we are in heaven for eternity, for the
sole purpose of spending eternity with the idea of our
worshiping god forever.....we cannot assume this notion to be true...

so what happens if there is no point, meaning or purpose or goal to
our existence?

that there is no fixed "one size fits all" in our existence....

now what?

we must accept that possibility..... and what does that possibility
mean to us?

what does it mean to me that my existence has no point or meaning
or purpose or goal?

the first question becomes, then does life become meaningless?

look at animals, they don't seem to have a purpose or meaning to them.....

look at lions or bears or chickens... what is their meaning or purpose?

I can't really say except what purpose or meaning they have in relation
to us, to me as a human being.....

I love to eat chicken, does that mean that the meaning/purpose of
chickens to to be eaten by human beings?

and what about lions... we don't eat lions, but they have, on occasion
eaten human beings.. does that mean we are, the point or the reason of existence
for lions? the point or purpose of human beings, is to exists as lions food? is to be
eaten, really the point of, the purpose of existence for human beings?

I don't think so......

so, what is the point, the meaning of existence for human beings?

do we really need the "one size fits all" mentality to to achieve some
understanding of what it means to have meaning or purpose?

what is my meaning or purpose?

I couldn't tell you....and that is a problem for me

I don't know what is the point of or the meaning of my existence...

I don't seem to have any purpose in life........

so what does this mean to me?

do you have any meaning or purpose in life?

and why would you think so?

and what does it have to do with our "one size fits all" mentality of

you exist.. you are alive.. breathing and living life.....

do you have to have a meaning or purpose to exist?

and why? why must existence have a point, a reason to be.....
why must we have some meaning or purpose in our existence?

How does having some meaning or purpose in your life, help
you in your life?

what is the point of having meaning or purpose in our lives?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:35 pm

so, why do most people, actually all people assume that their life
has some meaning or purpose?

it is assumed by people that their life has some meaning or purpose....

but why? I would suggest that it is because most people don't actually
examine their lives...they take their lives for granted and they take
their supposed purpose in life for granted.....

they don't even think about what their meaning or purpose is.....

they just guess they have one....

so, take away your assumptions.... don't just assume your life
has meaning or purpose.....

think about what your meaning or purpose or your goal is?

so, what is it?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Dan~ » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:55 pm

As far as i know, the meaning of life is work.
Work making copies of self, turning earth into body, body into mind, mind into spirit.

When we reach a higher intelligence, we can contemplate yes and no, right and wrong, etc.
But before that, all of it is made possible by work and the eco system.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.
Be ware dumbasses that think they are intellectuals.
User avatar
ILP Legend
Posts: 10225
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am
Location: May the loving spirit of papa hitler watch over and bless you all.

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:40 pm

Dan~ wrote:As far as i know, the meaning of life is work.
Work making copies of self, turning earth into body, body into mind, mind into spirit.

When we reach a higher intelligence, we can contemplate yes and no, right and wrong, etc.
But before that, all of it is made possible by work and the eco system.

K: I don't know if work is the right answer... it does take time to make the journey
that we take but I am not sure your examples of "Work making copies of self, turning
earth into body, body into mind, mind into spirit" is the process we human go
through...in other words, is life about turning "earth into body" really correct,
or is turning "body into mind" or "mind into spirit" because you have to
explain what this means...how does one turn "body into mind" or how does
one turn "mind into spirit"

your answer leaves me with more questions then answers.......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:48 pm

Part of the "modern" crisis is the fact we don't examine or
we fail to look deep into ourselves...... we "moderns",
we look at life as if life were just an inch or two deep, like
water that is very shallow vs water that is really deep, like
an ocean.... we don't seek very deep into anything...
if it is deeper then an inch or two, we declare victory
and move on.......

the mystery of who we are as human beings is deep and being "modern"
we simply pretend it is shallow and easily understood....
and thus we ignore it... as we ignore any question of existence
that might make us question our very assumptions....

to be a "modern" human being requires us to make assumptions
and then never look deeply at those assumptions...to assume is
the "modern" condition...we think we have answers, but hell,
we don't even understand the questions or we misinterpret the
questions to get really wrong answers....

and the most "modern" thing we do is hold to our ego and vanities....

we think because we are the most recent, we hold all the cards....

no one digs deep into what it means to be human or what it means to
really ask, "what am I to do?"... the answer is just assumed and never
challenged...in fact, another definition of being modern is

"never challenge the answers we have right now"

we have plenty of knowledge, 1 + 1 = 2 and the E=Mc2....
and how the sun keeps on chugging along.....we have more knowledge
then we know what to do with.....we have plenty of ego and vanity to
go around..... the "modern' need for self-admiration knows no bound...
and is found in our social media.......but in our pretentiousness and
self-importance, we have forgotten that wisdom is far more important
then knowledge...and we have no wisdom..... for to have wisdom is
to have the opposite of the Modern curse, which is our conceited, self worship,
selfishness of the modern age..... the modern man is the one who say,
"I have mine, fuck you"... and doesn't feel any self conscience about saying that....

Modern man has forgotten that our wonderful GDP has been built upon
generations of human beings...they worked and we benefit.. and that means
that we must work for the next generations.. as other past generations worked
for us.......

and in our egoism, we have failed to see that....

it is all about us and our greatness....... we are the pinnacle of civilization....
and we truly believe that...... a little modesty and some humility wouldn't
hurt us....for our entire civilization has been built by our ancestors and we
don't even see that.....

the "modern" crisis is where we can't see our true role in this story of
life, of the evolution of who we are......and who we should become......

for life is not a set notion, no, it is a process and we have failed to see
the process of life....the process of being human....... where we
we see the process of existence as being suffering and pain....

it is a process... we need to accept and welcome the very process that has
made us human....and then move beyond, to the next step of the process
of us going from animal to animal/human to becoming/the process of becoming
human, fully human.......

the question of philosophy is the answer of understanding the process of
how we became human....... what does it mean to be human?

and how do we make the next step in that process of becoming fully human,
not just animal/human?

our "Modern" world avoids questions like this because it is too much work,
and it is easier to pretend we are already at the end of the process of being
human and we are not......

"what am I to do?" "what am I to believe in?" "what should I hope for?"

seeking these questions instead of seeking how do I become rich or how
do I become famous or how do I gain titles?

the "modern" viewpoint is very shallow and superficial.... how do we
deepen the way we see existence? how do we get to a world that doesn't take
everything for granted? a world where we must actually work for our answers,
instead of taking our current prejudices and ism's and biases as the "right" answers.....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:51 pm

the real question of our "modern" times is the
question of values... what values are we going to hold?

both individually and collectively...

one might hear, "I am a Christian" and what exactly does that mean?

or one might be accused of being a "socialist" and what exactly does
that mean?

many have accused me of being an "anarchist" or more often a "communist"
and or a "socialist" and yet, few who make such accusations really know what
it means to be an "anarchist" or a "socialist" or a "communist"...

they heard that being called a "socialist" is a bad thing and if someone
says its a bad thing, then that must be true, so in my laziness, I will
simple call someone an "socialist" even though I have no idea what that means....
and that is how the "Modern" method of accusations goes....

Call someone something even though I personally have no idea what it means
and I can dismiss someone who actually knows by calling it "fake news"....

so once again, what are the "modern" values?

no one knows because no one understand what values are.....

"I am a Christian" and what values should a "Christian" hold to?

one should hold to values that are in the bible and values that
god and Jesus proclaimed to be true......but the modern "Christian"
has no need of the values proclaimed by god or by Jesus......

for example, the story of Jesus is very clear about how we are
supposed to treat strangers in our land...recall the story of the birth of
Jesus... he was born in a manger, which is basically a room for animals...

and we should treat people better then having them reside in a manger...

and the story/parable of the good Samaritan... in which we should treat people
with kindness... but today's Christian holds to the values of anger, hatred of
others, lust, greed and yet they still call themselves "Christian" even after
such displays that eliminate them from being "Christian"... the "Christian"
values are love and care for your fellow human being... and yet, the
"Christian" supports the concentration camps we have for children...
and the "Christian" supports violence and hatred and greed toward
any who isn't them....

I hold to the values of the democratic party and to these values
I engage with... tolerance for people, ending bigotry, creating
a level playing field for people to allow them to achieve the
"American dream"... to hold people to be equal and to
choose justice and equality as the values of our political life....

"I am a liberal" and I hold to the values that liberals partake in.....

I am consistent with those values... in other words, my words and my
actions are compatible and logical..... when one says, "I am a Christian"
the words and actions and values must be consistent or they are
engaged in hypocrisy... and we see a whole lot of hypocrisy in
"Modern" day America....

and why? why is the crime of America hypocrisy? because we have
failed in an understanding of what it means to be an American or
what it actually means to be "Christian" or we fail to see
how our words and our actions fail to match because we
are afraid of looking any deeper then an inch or two into our lives.....

to me, I would rather people engage in terrible and dangerous
actions instead of holding to the hypocrisy between their
words and their actions..... which is equally dangerous if not
more dangerous because hypocrisy allows us to feel good about
taking actions that harm others.. when we should feel bad or guilty
about our hypocrisy... but that is the "modern" way when we don't
even notice our hypocrisy in our day to day life....

the hypocrisy of the "modern" age cannot be denied.... the Nazi's practiced
it and the Russians practiced it when they proclaimed the Soviet Union to
be a 'worker" state...as America is practicing it hypocrisy when it claims
to be "Christian" and fails to fulfill even the basic notions of Christianity.....

what values are we to hold? let us drop the hypocrisy of America
being a "Christian" nation when we practice values that are
antithetical to the values listed in the Bible....

let us practice our values..... let us end the hypocrisy of the "Modern"
world..... but what values should we hold to Kropotkin?

Indeed, what values should we hold to?

that is the question of our "Modern" age....

let us walk away from our "modern" age and begin to
engage with both our words and our actions as being
compatible and in synch... let us walk away from
our "modern" hypocrisy and match our words and
our actions...and to do that requires us to look at
ourselves, a long and hard look at what it means to be
an American and what it means to be a human being......

to accept the Modern age means to accept being
a hypocrite and I refuse to do that...and what about you?

are you going to accept being a hypocrite or are you going
to explore, look deep into yourself and see what you really believe
in and what values you really hold....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:04 pm

I have often stated that we human beings are on a process,
a journey from animal to animal/human to becoming fully human......

but what does this actually mean?

well, we haven't changed physically for several hundred thousand years.....

so the journey from animal to human isn't a physical change......

it is mental, emotional, psychological changes that allowed us to
travel down the road from animal to animal/human.....

let us look at cows, what are the inherent possibilities for a cow?

see one cow, you pretty much have seen them all....what do cows do?

well, they do cow things like eat, make baby cows, do all the bodily functions
of cows... and they can wind up on your kitchen table in one fashion or another.....

that pretty much lists all the possibilities for cows....there just isn't a whole lot
we can discover new about cows at this point....and the same could be said
for just about any animal... dogs, goats, cats, elephants, marmots....
the list of possibilities for each of the listed above animals is limited.....

each animal has their tools, be it claws or horns or speed or strength....
all animals have some sort of tools which allowed them to survive....
to prosper......

and yet, look at man..... what sort of survival tools do we have?

we aren't fast, we don't have sharp claws, we aren't that strong,
physically human beings don't have much in the way of survival....

physically, we just don't have the tools of other animals to survive...

so, how did human beings become the top of the food chain if it wasn't
a physical tool?

it is this very lack of a physical tool that allowed us to survive......
we aren't fixed in our use of a physical tool...in other words, if we
were fast like a cheetah, then our tool of survival would be our speed...
we would be dependent upon our speed to allow us to survive and we
would have no need of seeking or creating another tool to let us survive.......
as an animal, we would be at a dead end, be unable to grow anymore because
we have an excellent tool of survival that allowed us to focus on that
survival tool and not look at any other tools we might need.....
every aspect of our survival, our very instincts, would be about
using our speed to get away and survive.....

but we humans, we don't have any great speed, we can't depend upon our
speed to survive in the wild....

so, what tools did we use to survive a million years in the wilderness?

well, certainly not any physical tools, so it must have been our mental,
psychological, emotional tools which allowed us to survive......

the very tools that allowed us to survive, are the same tools that allowed
us to go from animal to animal/human......because it isn't physical tools
that allowed us to go from animal/human....... it was the emotional,
psychological and the mental tools we have, that allowed us to
grow from animal to become animal/human......

it was internal growth of us that allowed us to grow or become animal/human.....

we don't have a fixed tool in which we can turn to, to save us from harm......

and over the million years of becoming, of going from animal to animal/human,
we have refined and cultivated the tools that have allowed us to become who we are.....

and depending on the situation, we can use different tools of salvation that
allows us to navigate any given situation... for example, we have our rationality,
that is a tool we use.... we also have our emotional tools.... for example,
we have such emotional tools like self-awareness, self-regulation, motivation,
empathy and our social skills that allow us to exists in our evolutionary state
of community with others......recall, human beings are social creatures....
we cannot survive on our own.... we must engage with other people to survive...

and that takes social skills....human beings we call men, have a different set
of social skills then women do...this is purely a survival skill.... if both men and
women had the same social skills, then we might develop blind spots that might
prevent us from seeing danger....everything we are or that we do, comes
from the long million years of survival in the African wilderness......

so human existence comes down to the question of what skills do we have
that allow us to survive? one of the greatest skills human beings have
is our ability to adapt to ever changing situations....we can adapt to the changing
environment in all kinds of weather conditions, from the extreme cold of the Artic
to the heat of the desert to the jungles of south America to the plains of America...

it is an adaptability that few animals have.... and this adaptability isn't
just a physical trait, it is an emotional, psychological and mental trait....

the key to human survival comes from the fact that we don't have
any specialize tools or skills to survive.... we don't have speed or
claws or great strength to protect us, so we use our general, overall
skills to advance and protect us....

it is our lack of specialization that allowed us to survive...

the growth we have made from being animal to animal/human has been
because we aren't not specialized animals... it is in our emotional,
psychological, mental general skills that has allowed us to grow from
being animal to animal/human and this lack of specialized skills
and our emotional, psychological and mental skills that will enable us
to grow from animal/human to fully human.....

or to say it another way, the way we will grow into being human doesn't lie in
our physical abilities but in our emotional, psychological and mental skills....

and that is why it is important to understand our questions of existence....
because it is by those questions and the answers we find, that will
allow us to become human, fully human....

"who am I?" "what am I to do?" "what should we believe in?" "what values
should we hold?" "what should we spend our energy on?"

those are the questions that will lead us to understanding what it takes
to become human, not just animal/human.....

the process of becoming is a emotional, psychological, mental process....

that is why some beliefs that we have are so important....
which is why I hold that the tale of Daedalus and Icarus is the
most important tale we have..... sometimes, sometimes we should
travel in the middle because that is where it is the safest...

but sometimes, sometimes we must throw all caution into the wind
and try to fly to the sun... reach for the stars even though there is no chance
of success.. we must try.....for to reach becoming something more, we have
to reach beyond ourselves and reach for something that might be impossible to
reach..... we cannot be animals and not even try because we might be afraid or scared....

it is within that willingness to gamble everything on a toss of the dice is
what made us human beings.... to play it safe, that is being animal,
to dare more is to be animal/human and to be out on the limb,
that is human, fully human....

the greatness of human beings isn't found in the safe behavior
of the crowd but in the reaching for the impossible...

look at the "great" human beings and they are great not because they
sat at home and play it safe..... no, they dare to reach for the impossible....
and that is what made them great... it wasn't a physical attempt that
made them great but they achieved greatness because they challenged
the status quo and they reached for the stars........and that is a mental,
psychological and emotional answer, not physical answer to the question,
how do we become human?

reach up if you want to grow as a human being...

if you want to be an animal.... that is very simple, just stay
at home and risk nothing, challenge nothing, dare nothing....
and animal, you shall remain.....

the possibilities of being human requires us to challenge and to risk...

do you have what it takes to challenge and risk your faith, your beliefs,
your indoctrinations?

the search for becoming lies within us, not outside of us......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:11 pm

so Kropotkin, you say sometimes we have to risk, challenge
and other times, we must seek the middle, the average...
so how do we know when to risk it all and when to
play it safe?

that is why we must pursue wisdom instead of knowledge.....

think about those who we considered to be wise?

usually, usually, we consider those who are older to be wiser...
think of the sages of Greece, each of them was older....
it is hard in fact to consider a young person to be wise....
and why?

because part of wisdom is the experience one gets from life...
and one simply cannot gain any experience while being young...
think about the fact that in the U.S constitution that the youngest
age a person can be elected president is 35....

it isn't about the knowledge one may or may not know, because anyone
even a 5 year old can have knowledge... no, the age 35 is chosen
because the founding fathers knew that wisdom comes with

if you hear the word "experience" that really mean age and the amount
of experiences we have, grow as we grow older...

it is from experience that I have learned when to leap and from experience
that I have learned to hold back.....

why does it seem that older people seem to be more cautious then younger
people? the answer is experience.... we grow more cautious as we age because
we have leapt into situations and we have been burned....we have the experience
to see and understand what happens when you leap without thinking about it....

the young will leap because because they don't see all the consequences
of a ill times leap into a situation..... whereas we old folks, we can see
what will happen during an ill timed leap.......

when one has earned enough scars, both physically and emotionally,
you learn to be cautious.......

and that is why we old folks sometimes leap even though all our
cells are screaming against it...... we sometimes, just have to
go for it.....you cannot achieve greatness without risk....
it is as simple as that.....

old people become risk adverse and in doing so, we hinder the
cause of becoming...

in becoming.. one must take risks.....

so, what have you risk in your becoming?

are you aiming for greatness or becoming a ubermensch?

if so, then you must also risk something as great........

there is no such thing as a reward without risk...
the greater reward, the greater the risk....

what are you willing to risk to reach greatness?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:29 pm

and what about our other obligations of the state
and marriage and family, the church?

can we risk everything, can we leap when we have obligations
and responsibilities to others?

we can be good citizens and good consumers and good
workers and good producers and still be able to
think about our leap into becoming.....

our leap into being human, not just animal/human doesn't involve
in us challenging the status quo, although it can, no, the leap doesn't
have to challenge what we might call "good" or "evil" or even
our place within society.......

we become when we begin the process of going from animal/human to
human... which really means we have begun the process of finding out
our possibilities.....

in seeking out my possibilities of being human, doesn't mean I
violate or disagree with the status quo.. although, it might at that...
in seeking what is possible for me, doesn't necessarily mean I am
at odds with the state or society.....although it might.....

it depends upon my attempt to find out my possibilities for me.....

personally I am seeking what is possible for me as a philosopher...

as what is possible for me as an athlete is slim to none because
of my age and my back... so I seek what I can within the possibilities
that I have and seeking what is possible for me as an thinker, as an
philosopher, as a human being is still very possible.......

I have no possibilities as an athlete to achieve greatness...

but I can achieve greatness as an philosopher...

and I hold that I am the greatest native born philosopher, America
has ever seen.....and I believe history will bare this out.....

I hold that we are afraid of trying to achieve greatness....
so, we hide behind our fears, our responsibilities, our current
situation in life......we have become risk adverse, as a nation
and individually.....

so, who dares at greatness?

you must dare to leap into the great unknown and risk everything....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:59 pm

ok, let us think about this question of meaning and purpose of

let us "assume" that existence has no meaning, no purpose.....
we exists and that is it....there is nothing more then that......

now what?

if existence is meaningless and purposeless, then we need to fill
the void and we can do this......

we fill that void of a meaningless universe by our engagement with
our possibilities... what is possible for me? and in answering that,
I create meaning and purpose....

I cannot be a great athlete anymore, not that I was in the first place...
but I can achieve my possibilities, my greatness in seeking what can I be....

can I be a great novelist? perhaps, that is a possibility for me, I am a published
author...can I achieve greatness as a politician, yes, that possibility does exists for me
can I achieve greatness as a mathematician? doubtful, as I can barely add, subtract,
multiply or divide.. math isn't my strong suit, so it isn't really a possibility for me.....

so, if I know and understand my strengths and my possibilities, I can
pursue that which is truly possible for me...I can be a great writer,
I can be a great novelist, I can be a great philosopher.. these are all
possibilities for me....

our possibilities must work with our strengths........

this is where talents and genius works.... if we are talented in many
different area's, we can seek our possibilities in many different area's...
we can achieve greatness in many different area's of possibilities....

think of those of genius and polymaths, they have possibilities
in a great many area's and quite often they achieve greatness in
a great many area's of endeavor.... Goethe was a great poet,
a great writer, a playwright, a novelist, a scientist and a very good
government servant...Da Vinci was a great painter and a scientist
and he created a great many inventions and he engaged in engineering,
and sculpting, and anatomy.... because he was a genius, his possibilities
were far greater then my possibilities.... I could never be a great
painter or be great in engineering... and I understand that.... knowing our
possibilities means knowing our strengths and weaknesses....

I cannot seek greatness in an area that lies outside of my possibilities....
outside of my abilities... knowing that I cannot be a great mathematician is
part of my knowing what is possible for me.....

so I must seek that which lies within my possibilities...
and so being a philosopher does lie within my possibilities...

so, how will you achieve greatness?
what possibility will you seek?
what are you capable of?
and what are your weaknesses?

all of this plays a role in our seeking our possibilities for us....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:39 pm

beware of any attempts to achieve understanding by
a "one size fits all" mentality... hence we must be suspicious,
leary of Nietzsche's "will to power" or his "eternal recurrence"
and even his "ubermensch".......

"One size fits all" answers rarely every answers all....

likewise when someone says, "man is searching for freedom" or
"human beings want security" or any type of "one size fits all" mentality....

we can say, human beings have needs, needs like food, water, shelter, love,
education, health care, warmth...... these are basic biological needs
that all, all living beings have.......and that is the only true thing we can say
about people.... that they have needs......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:40 am

what does it mean when one asks to be "saved"?

what is "salvation" in our modern times?"

what does it mean to be "redeemed" in our modern age?

especially if there is no god!

How do we translate these religious questions into secular questions?

in our modern age, which has no meaning, no purpose, no goal,
what does it mean to be saved? if there is no goal, no purpose,
then how does it matter if we are "redeemed" or not?

our questions suggest that we no longer need to engage in
any sort of religious questions anymore.....

if we take the question, there is no god and we inspect our modern lives,
with that question, we find much of what has passed for inquiry, which
is what the word philosophy actually means in Greek, we find many of the questions
of existence no longer exists, they no longer hold any meaning.....

we may as well ask what "Thor" or what "Ra" can do for us modern people.

nothing, nothing at all, is the correct answer......

theology as a field, no longer has any point if there is no god....

in fact, many of the basic assumptions we moderns have, no longer exists
if there is no god.... we view the universe through theologian eyes..
but modern man is no longer a theologian, no longer concerned with
man and his relationship with god....

our entire viewpoint of the universe changes if we no longer hold to god.....
our entire scientific, historical and economical vision of what it means to be human
is laced with theological questions.......

if there is not god, then what possible meaning or purpose can we human beings have?

if there is no god, then what can pass for our goal as a species?

meaning and purpose no longer exists if there is no god.......

and that is why people are so keen on holding on to god...
they are afraid that their beliefs have/will shattered into a million

a universe with a god is far more comfortable then a universe without a god....

because comfortable means holding a value that has existed since before you were born.....

but if there is no value of god, then what holds the human being to be

what value allows one to have comfort and stability enough to sleep at night?

imagine a human beings without values..... what allows them to sleep at night?

what gives them enough comfort to live out one's life?

how do human beings go on without any values to guide them,
to support them, to hold their fears in place?

think about a universe without values like god or love or peace or even hate?

what a silent universe that would be.......

so what values allow you to peacefully at night?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:54 am

You fucking idiot.

The universe is a consortium of souls. That’s why we have free will.

God not existing doesn’t mean the end of morality.

You troll this concept like a fundamentalist Christian.

Same as iambiguous... “without god there’s no possible morality”
ILP Legend
Posts: 10429
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:10 pm

as you are unaware of Nietzsche, his goal was to create a morality
that existed without god or a religion....Nietzsche wrote:


And what does this mean for morality?

our current, western morality is derived from the bible....

thou shall not........

and the biblical punishments we see, stoning is used when one violates
"god's laws" adultery for example......

and to this day, adultery is condemned, although fortunately not with

so if god is dead, what does this mean for the biblical vision of morality?

what is moral in a universe without a god?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:49 pm

let us take this down to earth.....

we should think about events and understand them....

so we should take a position and understand what that position means....
work out the values from that position, not the work out the position from the

murder is wrong....... but why?

because it takes away someone rights and freedom without their

so we are working from the position, murder, to a values understanding.....
depriving people of their rights....

what we really need to do is to work from the values to the position....

we hold certain values and we act according to the values, not
to the position...

so, let us say, I hold life to be sacred.... and from that value,
I can determine what positions I should hold....

if life is sacred, then I cannot advocate murder or abortion or
any type of capital punishment or allow people, like the police,
to kill anyone.... the values show us the position we must hold....

find the values and then act...

act and then find the values to backdate your validation about
your course of action.....

before we can act, we must hold to or understand the values we believe....

once we know our values and why those values, then we can act
or know what actions we support.......

we must know our values before we can take any action......

for the values affirmed give our actions their validity....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:39 pm

ressentiment: the need one has to blame others for one's

I have heard many a conservative wish that all "liberals" would either
move away, "America love it or leave it" or more drastically, would hope
that all "liberals" would die a rather horribly death....

conservatives have this demented delusion that everything would be
right in the world if the "other" guys would just disappear... be it liberals
or be it Muslims or be it foreigners or something that isn't white, anglo-saxon....

these conservatives think that by this magical disappearance, the world
would be "saved" and the sun would shine and everyone would live happily
ever after........ and then they woke up......

the fact is, that it is the "other" guys that made the world to be as good
of a place as it is.... who has pushed for the very things that has improved the
world over the last 100 years? Liberals..... we have our modern benefits of
being human because of liberals........

pick a modern benefit and most likely it was liberals that fought for it......

and that includes the big bad of Marxism..... for it was Karl Marx who fought
for these benefits... note that the benefits that aided workers also helped bring
about our modern world...

for example, who fought for a 5 day work week? who fought for health benefits?
sick days? vacation pay? 8 hour work days? it was done for the benefit of the workers
and while doing so, has benefited everyone.... and every one of these benefits
were fought for by..... Karl Marx....

for those who blindly attack Marxist and yet enjoy these benefits, I say shame on you.....

our modern world of benefits has been fought for by the lower class and workers
and.... Marxists....

and those who attack leftist groups like Antifa, I would point out that
the words Antifa means anti fascist... in other words, soldiers who fought
against the fascism of Hitler and Mussolini were..... Antifa....
and the fascism they are fighting today, is the fascism that exists
today in IQ45 America...the illegal arrest and detention of Americans
who are legally protesting... when people civil rights are being violated
by the government, that is fascism..... and those fighting it are Antifa.....

to make Antifa illegal is to make the soldier fighting in WW2 illegal...
for their goal was exactly the same....to rid the world of fascism...

and we return to the American conservative.... they support IQ45 and by
doing so, they support fascism.....or by supporting the violations
of civil rights by the police and the paramilitary that exists in places like
Portland or Minneapolis, means you support fascism also....

and we return to ressentiment: the psychological state arising from
suppressed feelings of envy and hatred that cannot be acted upon
resulting in some form of self-abasement......

we know, because they tell you, that the conservative thrives upon hatred....
they hate everyone and they aren't shy about telling everyone....

they hate, in no particular order, liberals, gays, trans, people of color,
different nationalities, different religions.. Jews for example,
handicap people, in fact, they hate anyone who is different then they are....
and they say so, loudly and publicly..... this is why they love IQ45....
he says, out loud what the average conservative thinks......

but on some level, the conservative knows deep down that they
are flawed, mistaken people....the conservative is a scared, frighten,
flawed person and they know it...hence we see the ressentiment that
Nietzsche noted....the need to blame everyone but themselves.....
and we see this ressentiment in IQ45... he blames everyone else
but himself... he hasn't taken credit for anything wrong in his life....

the economy goes good, he take credit and the economy goes bad,
and he blames everyone else.... covid 19, he has publicly stated,
"I don't take any responsibility" for it....
the rioting in the streets, "Antifa and thugs are to blame" but never
himself..... so I proclaim IQ45... as the perfect conservative....

full of ressentiment and blame and hate, for everyone but himself.......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:29 pm

think about those who define themselves as "against something"

now why would someone self identify as being "against something"?

let us say, that I am against premarital sex... now taking that one position
doesn't really mean much... but what if I define myself by being against,
abortions, premarital sex, pornography, same sex marriage, equality,
sin.... to name a few possibilities...... I have defined myself by my
being against a whole lot of things.....

but what do I stand for?

we actually can't know because I have defined myself against things, not for

this is the state of the modern conservative... they are against a whole
lot of things, but what do they actually stand for?

we know conservatives by what they oppose, not what they stand for...

we saw this in the last election when conservatives were all about
Hillary e-mails and Obama being from Kenya and the lies of the right
wing media...... but the conservative didn't actually say what they are
for..... MAGA?.... that can mean anything, anything at all...it is so
undefined as to be meaningless...

the liberals say they are creating justice and equality......

the conservative because they are against things, not for things,
will suddenly say, they are against justice and equality.....

the conservative exists in opposition to things, but they don't
stand for anything... I believe in.........you don't hear conservatives
say that....

the latest ad from the dumpster fire in the White house, said,
that if Biden were president, millions of jobs will be lost.....

that has two points to it, first it is against Biden, not for IQ45 and
second, it is about fear.... and that is the second point about
conservatives, the dominant emotion in conservatives is fear....
they are afraid of everything... they fear the blacks and mexicans
and intellectuals and Jews and gays and unions... in fact it is hard to
see what conservatives aren't afraid of...

to a conservative, the world is a dark, scary, negative place where
there is no love, no peace, no hope, no joy, no beauty....

read urwrong... and see what a negative, dark view of the world he has....

he uses violent, dark, menacing language...he wishes violence and hatred
on everything he disapproves of, which frankly is everything.....

but he is a typical conservative in that he is against, never for, always
against something....he never says, why he is for IQ45... but he is against everything else...
Biden has cognition issues.. he doesn't say, vote for IQ45 because he.......

and that is what defines a conservative......

negative, violent, dark, miserly, against, that is the conservative, it is
always about the con, about the negative, conservative... even the name is
against something, con-servative....never about the pro.....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:21 pm

I have come to the conclusion that we "moderns", we are sick....
we have an illness.... and as a philosopher, I am reminded by Socrates,
that we must cure the Illness of society, an illness that no physician or
psychologist can cure... because the "Human condition"
is one of mental illness....

even a cursory look at history can provide us with enough evidence
to convict the human race of being ill.....think of the games of
the Romans, the "bread and circuses" of the people.....watching others
die horrible and gruesome deaths isn't something that I can consider
to be something normal...the very need to watch others suffer is a sign
of mental illness...

and we don't need to go back into history to see this mental illness....
we just need remember Nazi Germany.. the entire holocaust is one
more indictment of the human race mental illness.....

and today, we have lock up children into concentration camps because
their parents, their parents has enough gall to seek a better life for themselves
and their children....

and we have no problem allowing people to suffer without health care and
any possibility of having health care...... the nerve of them to want good health....
without having to go bankrupt to have good health...why tie up health care
with holding a job....no job, no health care..... that tell us our priorities....
a job is more important then having health care.....

it is a mental illness that makes the pursuit of money, more important
then the pursuit of wisdom or the pursuit of love or the pursuit of
justice or equality....

when we make money/profits more important then people's lives, we
are engaging in mental illness....

so how do we philosophers overcome this mental illness?

we reevaluate what is really important...we see that life,
life is more important then money or profits or material goods......

the entire educational system is directed toward creating
workers, to work in our mentally ill system of capitalism...
which puts money/profits over the heath and welfare of the
worker and the consumers.....

until there is some recognition that we are perpetuating a system
which degrades and negates human beings, we cannot begin to
work our way toward having healthy mental health....

and that is part and parcel of the current mental health crisis,
we are engaged in degrading and negating human beings for
such pitiful goals as money/profits, wealth, material goods....

until we become aware of just exactly how mentally ill we are,
we cannot come to grips with some sort of solution to find a cure....

everything you believe in, comes from a mentally diseased state....

how are you going to go from being mentally ill to mentally healthy?

it all starts with awareness of being mental ill and that is what
is needed.... an awareness of who we are......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:33 pm

think of the conservative mantra of hate and anger and
the threat of violence.....

now think of those of whom we have put up statues...
think of Gandhi and the Buddha and MLK.......

think of what those people stood for... did they stand up for hate or
violence and anger? No, no they did not... why have we put up statues
to those who have advocated peace and hope and love.... because
that is the road we must take to escape our "modern" mental illness.....

to promote such destructive ism's and ideologies as capitalism
and communism is to take the path of more mental illness.......

capitalism promotes the negation and denigration of human beings
so if you approve of capitalism, you approve of the negation of
other human beings...I don't see how you can spin that to be anything
other then mental illness......if you see someone putting others
down to make themselves feel better, you would call that a mental illness,
and you would be right....our modern age is one where every ism and ideology is
an aspect of mental illness.........

we must first see what is happening before we can find a way out.......

how do we find salvation? how are we to be redeemed?

we must find our way of our the collective mental illness that
makes our age, the "modern" age.....

we must seek to find out what is "not mental illness" and follow that
path and it seems that those who we put up statues to, they are the
ones who are mentally ok.... they have put people ahead of money/profits
and they have paused to understand what is really important in our lives
and they have seen the beauty of the moment.. something we cannot see at all
because we are in the grips of a mental illness that allows us to put children
into concentration camps and put money/profits over peoples lives and
fail to see the beauty of the universe around us.... because we are too busy
making money and having experiences and building houses in the beauty of
tree's and forests......

anyone who thinks it is a good idea to send children to school in the midst of
the worst pandemic in our lifetime, clearly is mentally ill because they are
putting the economic before children's lives.....existence comes before
anything else.... and we must put lives before money and material goods
and cars and......

in other words, because of our mental illness, we have lost perspective on
what really matters... we no longer know what is important and what isn't....

so, what is important? do you know?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:14 pm

Nietzsche attack upon such ism's and ideologies as Christianity is
because, according to Nietzsche, Christianity made human beings
"weak" and that "weakness" has corrupted our Modern age....

because of Christian "morality", western man has become
weak because Christian "Morality" is about bringing about
weakness in human beings....

slave morality which was championed by the Christian church,
is anti-life, anti-body, anti-sex..... these "ideal's" are what have
weakened human beings in the west.......

the "herd" mentality is one designed to raise the weak to compete
or even destroy the "strong"......

whereas I hold that the "herd" mentality is held because of the failure
to overcome our indoctrinations of childhood.....

we haven't overcome... that is the "herd" mentality.....

and this is one of the differences between Nietzsche and myself.....

whereas Nietzsche hold that democracy is "herd" mentality, I hold
that we can use democracy to become who we are....

Nietzsche held that Goethe basically made himself.... he created
who he was and for Nietzsche, Goethe was the quintessential
human being...the "higher" man....and what made Goethe the
quintessential human being?

he was self directed, he made his own "rules", he was rational,
he was autonomous...he was one of the great "creators" of literature
in history... he was able to find and fulfill his possibilities as a
human being, writer, thinker, poet, scientist, government official,
everything he did, he was great at it....

Goethe was anti-Christian... and in part, that was part of his appeal
for Nietzsche......and Goethe had no use for such silly concepts as
democracy and liberalism and other crutches used by the great
unwashed masses....he was above such things as ideologies and ism's.....

I hold that we can rise above such things as "slave" morality by
becoming free of such things by our overcoming, by our
escaping our childhood indoctrinations........

we can create who we are if we no longer hold to human beings
as being dependent upon such ideal's as religions, political parties,
beliefs in such ism's and ideologies as capitalism and communism.....

we can escape the tyranny of ism's and ideologies by
following our values instead of blindly following
ism's and ideologies....

such ism's and ideologies as democracies and capitalism is really
the beginning of the story, not the end..........

because what comes after democracies and capitalism is the story,
not the end....what is next?

such isms and ideologies as democracy and capitalism and political parties
are in synch with our stage of evolution of being animal/human... but to
grow into becoming human, fully human, we must take the next step into
our future.. and ending the need for such damaging and destructive
ism's and ideologies as democracies, capitalism, communism, catholicism,
Buddhism, Christianity, political parties, and to find our growth as
human beings in our becoming who we are, not in our ism's and

in becoming human, not just animal/human... that is where our growth
as human beings will come and that means we must walk away from
ism's and ideologies that hold us hostage to viewpoints that
prevent us from exploring our possibilities as human beings.....

Goethe wasn't engaged with democracies or communism or
political parties or religions because they don't aid us in our
becoming who we are... he engaged in writing or science
or writing plays as part of becoming human, not as an exercise in
ism's or ideologies.....

Goethe was seeking his possibilities, not as an participant
in ism's or ideologies....... he didn't care about ism's or
ideologies.. he cared about becoming, he cared about what it
meant to be human, he cared about seeking his possibilities..
he cared about what values he held.....

his book, "Faust" is an exploration of values....
are Christian values worth having? no was his answer.....
what values are worth having as a human being?

virtually the very first lines of "Faust" is this:

"I have, alas, studied philosophy,
Jurisprudence, and medicine, too,
And worst of all, Theology."

Goethe answer was to reject these ism's and try to find
another answer....and Faust then to engage with
the use of lust and power...... he tried the old method
of seeking women and power.. and that was quite
a spectacular failure..... his "Faust" is an exercise in
the modern techniques of seeking fame, money, power,

and his "Faust" failed.... because seeking these "Modern"
methods themselves, are the path to failure....

the book "Faust" was an engagement with, what not to do
as a "modern" person.....

after one seeks fame, and power and money and lust
and titles, what is left? an engagement with the values
we hold...

our search for becoming who we are, has nothing to do with
ism's and ideologies and political parties and the "modern'
engagement with fame and money and power and lust......

becoming rational and autonomous, that is something worth
pursuing.... because that is something that can lead us to
becoming who we are..... seeking values is something
worth pursuing.......

seeking the ago old failures of religions and politics
and money and power... they go nowhere because
they have no where to go... what happens when you achieve
money or power or fame.... there is no place to go afterwards.....
it leads nowhere.. you can only work toward achieving more money or
more power or more fame, it cannot lead you to further growth as
a human being... that is the modern path of failure... to achieve
anything of value in the Modern world means you have no where
else to go... it is a dead end.. money, wealth, power, fame, titles...
what is after them? nothing.......

but values, to achieving values, that can lead to growth as a human being,
to achieve growth in going from animal/human to being fully human,
that is growth that can lead us to new grounds to what it means to
be human.....

so the modern answers of religion and political parties and wealth
and power is not an answer because there is no growth as a human being
while engaged in those modern answers....

seek something different...... become rational or autonomous or
seek your possibilities as a human being......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:35 pm

seeking the "Modern" answers of wealth or power or titles or fame,
means you are not seeking becoming who you are.....

those "modern values" don't allow us to grow as human beings....

modern ism's and ideologies are a dead end and lead us nowhere....

there is no further possibilities in modern ism's and ideologies....

becoming Christian isn't about being rational or autonomous,
it is about following the script that someone else wrote....

following ism's as in capitalism or communism is to follow a
script that someone else wrote...

the same goes for any ism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Christianity,
Fascism, hedonism, scientism........

freedom, true freedom comes from seeking our own possibilities
of being human... what does it mean for me to become human?

I must walk away from constricting ism's and ideologies that
deny me my possibilities of a being human....

and those possibilities are found in the values I choose to seek,
like seeking love, hope, charity, peace, justice, cooperation,
authenticity, balance, compassion, honesty.. among some of the
many values I can seek of becoming human....

if I were to seek say, justice/equality, there is room to grow
if I were to make justice/equality as my purpose in life, my meaning
in life......seeking justice/equality as a value gives my life purpose
and meaning and in seeking justice/equality I have become closer
to becoming human, not just animal/human....

seeking justice/equality isn't the dead end that our modern pursuit
of capitalism or communism or wealth or titles is.......

today, we are not the end product of what it means to be human,
we are at the start of what it means to be human....
we are on the road to becoming human........

and that is our engagement with what really matters, not
our economic or political or social ism's and ideologies that we might
follow.... but to seek that which gives our lives values and meaning,
the values of existence.... becoming justice or hope or peace or love....

that is the values of becoming....

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:34 pm

the question of ism's and ideologies is to teach men to
become something of value toward the ism and ideology in question....

so, Christianity is about teaching human beings to be a good Christian,
and the state teaches us to be good citizens and the education system
teaches us to be good workers and the media is teaching us to be
good consumers....... but who is teaching us to be human beings?
and who is teaching us about reaching values that allow us to
become human, fully human?

the state and the media and the church and the schools is teaching us
to be something but that something has little or no value in reaching
the real goal........ which is to grow from being animal/human to being
human, fully human.....

in other words, we are taught to be good citizens and good Christians
and good workers and good consumers.... but these have no real value.....

they are the mindless goal of being wealthy, having titles, gaining power,
being famous, to have a a lot of material goods that mean nothing if we
actually would engage in some sort of reevaluation of values....

for those goals of wealth and power and material goods are simply
childhood indoctrinations that we haven't overcome yet.....

what is truly important in our lives?

we don't know....... because most/almost all people
are afraid of exploring these indoctrinations of our childhood....
to see if those indoctrinations have any value at all....
to the goal of becoming human.......

what goal are you reaching for?

who is your hero?

who has become what you ought to become?

in other words, we should follow those who have real value.....

not Bill Gates or IQ45 or even Oprah... no, we should follow those
who have attempted to seek out their possibilities.....

Da Vinci, Einstein, Goethe, Shakespeare, MLK, Gandhi, Nietzsche and
Socrates, Goethe......

these should be our role models...... people who attempted to
discover what it means to be human.... not with an engagement with the old
role models that history has provided, Caesar, Paul, Rockefeller, Henry Ford,
where the goal is wealth or power or fame or titles.....

the goal isn't what we can gain in material goods or wealth, but
the question is "what can we become".....

"how are we to live?" "what are we to do?" "what should we believe in?"
"what should we hope for?"

none of these questions have anything to do with wealth or fame or
material goods or titles or power..... those things are just not important....
to the real point of existence.....

what does it mean to be human? what does it take to become a real human
being? not just a worker or a producer or a citizen or a consumer or animal/human?

existence can have meaning or a point or a possibility if we
remove the phony answers of existence and concentrate on
the real goal or purpose of existence....

to answer the question..... what does being human really mean?

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:11 pm

a reevaluation of values.......

when I see land, what do I see?

for example, I live on the San Francisco Peninsula, right in the middle
of the Peninsula... and the land my condo sits upon is consider to be
valuable because of the condo complex that sits upon it.....

but to me, land that has any construction on it, be it
condo's or a house or a strip mall or a factory or a campus,
educational or business, facebook or apple for example,
has no value... it is worthless......

I can look to the west, on the hills above the freeway 280 and
see tree's and forest and that land, that land is far more valuable to me,
then any land with construction on it.....

so any land with forest or desert or hills or mountains are far
more valuable to me because they don't have any sort of
civilization on them.....

putting any type of building on land or making "progress" with the land,
actually devalues the land, makes is worthless.... the land my condo is on
might be worth millions because of where it is, but in truth, because it
has construction on it, it is worthless.... it is just another attempt
to create progress when progress isn't just putting up buildings...

we have to redefine what progress actually means because right now
the idea of progress really negates and denigrate what it means to be
human.... it gives a false idea of what progress really should be about.....

whereas the idea of progress isn't about the GDP or what land has been
destroyed in some false notion of what is progress......

progress is about going from animal to animal/human to fully human.....

progress is about learning to live as a human being, while being
rational and autonomous and thinking about what it means to be
human.... that is what progress really means......
not how much land can we destroy while building crap buildings.....

that isn't progress, that is wonton destruction to achieve false
and dangerous ism's and ideologies like money, fame, titles,
and material goods....capitalism means the destruction of values
and putting material goods and money and fame in its place....

progress is understanding what values are our values.....

progress is finding out what it means to be human.....

progress means discovering what is left after
a reevaluation of values takes apart the installed, indoctrinations
of childhood...

progress is about discovering what it means to become who we are.....

progress is about finding out what we humans are made of, not
how many buildings we can build and turning land that has value
into land that has no value......

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state


Return to Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users