a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 24, 2018 4:34 pm

each of us, have a self image of ourselves and of our world....

now that image is driven by needs, ego, the myths and habits and prejudices
we were taught from birth, schooling or lack there of and experiences...….

I am no exception, I have an image of who I am and what is my role in the world....

I have very few delusions.... I am not important... very few listen to or even
care if I live or die.....the number who know me can be listed on one hand....
and I am ok with that.....I am well read enough in philosophy to know what
I am doing in philosophy is good work and worth saving...….

who we blame tells us more about who we are then just about anything...…
and as far as I can tell, it is what it is... we cannot change the past but
we can move forward into the future and that is where my thinking is at.....

so those who blindly hold on to the past, get my censure, my blame.....
and those who hold a false and phony understanding of the world, they
get my censure and my blame...……. those who think everything is a conspiracy
and those who blame the jews and blacks and minorities... everyone but themselves.....
they get my censure and my blame.....for I feel they haven't overcome their
childhood biases and myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions.....
they haven't overcome their limitations.... and I blame them...….

that weakness is mine and I accept that...
the path to overcoming begins with awareness.....
my failure lies with me because I have spent years overcoming my
limitations and I expect others to share my need to overcome limitations.....

the path to overcoming begins with honesty... and being honest with themselves is the last
thing people do...… we try to make ourselves the hero of our play and really, if truth be
known, we are just bit players......supporting actors....at best.....

and we are angry at being just bit players, so we blame others to justify
our being bit players.... blaming the Jews and blacks and minorities are simply another
way of having a false and phony image of who we are..... for if we admit the truth,
we would have to admit to ourselves, we are only bit players and that damages
the ego...….much of what we do is about ego and how to protect our ego.....
so we act the star of our lives when we are just minor players...…..

it is hard for the ego to admit, I am a minor, bit actor in the play of life...
I have strutted upon the stage and spoke a word or two and then, then my time
is up... and then I return to the obscurity that is my life...……

I am not the hero... I won't kill the dragon or slay the beast....
I won't win the 7th game of the world series or make the key shot
that wins the game.... I will never get any applause or notice of who I am.....
and when I die, few if any will even take note...…

my understanding of who I am and what my role in the world is clear
and not distorted by ego, or any false or phony myth of the world that is
around me...…. I don't need to blame anyone, people or race or color or
religion to explain my obscurity.... it is a well deserved obscurity...…

I stand alienated from society and the culture around me...….
and it is me that is alienated... I can't blame society or the culture
or the Jews to massage my ego for being alienated...…….

I am an outsider and I take responsibility for that fact.....
I have never fit in and I will never fit it and I take responsibility for that...…
I am a bit player in my life and I take responsibility for that...…
I am alienated from society and I take responsibility for that...…

it doesn't matter if these things are true... I must take responsibility for them.....
for if I don't, who will?

it bruises my ego to admit my failings.....
but I must be honest if I am to overcome who I am...……

my choices are my responsibility and my freedom to make...…

the only question I must ask myself is this, what is next?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri May 25, 2018 5:04 pm

philosophy is the search for knowledge...
this is called epistemology: the theory of knowledge,
especially with regards to its methods, validity, and scope.

From Descartes to Kant, the major problem in philosophy was
questions of knowledge... how do we know what we know?

the famous Descartes body/mind problem is a result of
Descartes trying to find certainty in our knowledge.....

However, David Hume once said: Reason is and ought to be
the slave of the passions" meaning reason is below the passions....

Philosophers work to understand the world rationally... through
rational methods and techniques.....

the methods are rational, the questions are rational, the answers are rational.....

but what about the most famous dichotomy in life,
not the body/mind problem of Descartes....
but the dichotomy between emotions/feelings
and rational/logical thought...……

we men, we leave to women the question of emotions and feelings...
I know I do.....we have philosophy which focuses on the rational thought....
but what discipline focuses on emotions and feelings? why, Psychology.....

Psychology as a scientific study of the human mind has only existed for
less then 200 years....and a great deal of psychology deals with
the how does one handle and deal with emotions and feelings and behavior....
given what we know so far, psychology has not done a great job so far.....

what we need is a topology of human emotions/feelings/behavior.....
in other words, just as we have done for knowledge, we need to do
for emotions/feelings/behavior...….. we have epistemology:
the theory of knowledge, especially with regards to its methods, validity,
and scope...…

we need to study, perhaps using this word, Pathosology: the theory of emotions
especially with regards to its methods, validity, and scope...…

we need to turn a study of emotions into a science...…..
not in regard to the study of the mind, but in regards to emotions itself....

now why this emphasis on emotions/feelings? because if we only study
reason/rationality, we are only studying half the human equation...…
we are much more creatures of emotions and feelings then we are
creatures of reason and rationality...…..

if we are to understand, truly understand the human being, we must
begin to study and understand emotions and feelings...…

we have seen, I have seen anger take over my entire being....
I have been so angry that that there was nothing outside of my anger..
it was the only thing I was...…. and I was out of control with anger...…

I have seen and I have been, so in love, I lost myself entirely to that emotion
of love.... there was nothing outside of my being in love...…

we must begin by placing emotions and feelings in context, which is a word
for experience, we must put emotions into context and that means
historical context which is evolutionary pathosology… the evolutionary study
of emotions and feelings...…why did we keep emotions and feelings
in a evolutionary context? what does emotions and feelings bring to us
in an evolutionary context that allows us to survive? how does being angry
allow us to survive evolutionary? or hate or love or pity?

we have a second field of study which is behavior.... how do the emotions and
feelings impact our behavior? now we know that love is an value and values
give our lives meaning...… but so what is the connection between values and
emotions/feelings? what about justice? is that an emotion?
do the virtues we take as values really exists as emotions/feelings?

I have on occasion listed values.... are those really a listing of emotions?
and behavior created by those values/emotions?

we can never be successful as human beings until we come to terms with,
not only our reason and rationality but with our emotions and feelings...…

and this is another problem of existence..... our emotions and feelings....


Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun May 27, 2018 6:22 pm

another problem of existence...…


I exist and you exist and anyone who reads this, exist.....

now what?

why do we exist? what is the point of existence?

what are we to do in this existence? is this existence without meaning?

or can we find the meaning of existence in our values or in our emotions
or in our reason?

reason is just a tool.... it seems to me, that emotions are nothing
more then a tool...…… a way to help human beings to connect with
each other..... for we do connect by emotions/feelings...…

for emotions/feelings are just another means of communication between
people.....think of emotions/feelings as another communication means.....

and oftentimes the communication is between a human being and themselves....

we communicate with ourselves by emotions and feelings.....

and emotions/feelings drive our actions and behavior...
in fact, emotions drive actions and behavior far too much....

but we cannot ignore or pretend the emotions aren't there....
the inability to understand or enact emotions are considered
a illness of sorts.... Autism is one such inability....
if we don't have emotions, we are quite often unable
to adjust or be able to handle/cope with society...…..

so much of what we communicate is through emotions and
if you unable to process or deal with emotions, you are unable
to communicate with others.....

so what came first? this communication tool or did we develop
this tool, emotions/feelings in response to living in society?

we are clearly born with feelings, as we see animals with feelings.....

but what came first, emotions or our social setting...
and were emotions a response to our social settings?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 27, 2018 6:35 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:another problem of existence...…


I exist and you exist and anyone who reads this, exist.....

now what?

why do we exist? what is the point of existence?

what are we to do in this existence? is this existence without meaning?

or can we find the meaning of existence in our values or in our emotions
or in our reason?

reason is just a tool.... it seems to me, that emotions are nothing
more then a tool...…… a way to help human beings to connect with
each other..... for we do connect by emotions/feelings...…

for emotions/feelings are just another means of communication between
people.....think of emotions/feelings as another communication means.....

and oftentimes the communication is between a human being and themselves....

we communicate with ourselves by emotions and feelings.....

and emotions/feelings drive our actions and behavior...
in fact, emotions drive actions and behavior far too much....

but we cannot ignore or pretend the emotions aren't there....
the inability to understand or enact emotions are considered
a illness of sorts.... Autism is one such inability....
if we don't have emotions, we are quite often unable
to adjust or be able to handle/cope with society...…..

so much of what we communicate is through emotions and
if you unable to process or deal with emotions, you are unable
to communicate with others.....

so what came first? this communication tool or did we develop
this tool, emotions/feelings in response to living in society?

we are clearly born with feelings, as we see animals with feelings.....

but what came first, emotions or our social setting...
and were emotions a response to our social settings?

Kropotkin


I think emotions are originally instinctual
The very basic emotion is based on the existential fear of other animals.

To learn which animal is the more threatening , the basis of fight or flight. So fear is the basic emotion

However that goes along with the earliest appearance of social settings , so it's hard to say which came before which
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon May 28, 2018 12:31 am

Meno: I think emotions are originally instinctual
The very basic emotion is based on the existential fear of other animals.

To learn which animal is the more threatening , the basis of fight or flight. So fear is the basic emotion

However that goes along with the earliest appearance of social settings , so it's hard to say which came before which"

K: I agree with you.... that emotions are originally instinctual.......and with
the basic emotion being fear.... Hobbes called himself a "fearful philosopher"
meaning for him, fear was a driving factor in his philosophy....and if you look
at his philosophy, security was the driving goal of his philosophy.... not freedom or
justice but security.... and those driven to security as the goal of life, are driven
by fear....look around you... read the news.. it is quite clear that American's
are being driven by fear and that fear is being stoked by the GOP.....for
political purposes...

the problem with being fear driven is that once it takes hold, that fear
drives absolutly everything......

all thought, all goals, all purposes... become fear driven...and from
fear, a man will kill his family and destroy everything in some vain attempt
to be safe......fear is easily the most destructive emotion we have....
so then the question becomes, how do we overcome fear?
how do we rise above this base and dangerous emotion?

fear is a limitation that must be overcome........
so how do we overcome?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon May 28, 2018 5:53 am

with the idea that emotions are, in one sense, a means
of communications... we look for examples of someone
with a lack of emotions and the difficulty of communication....

the best example I could find was actually a fictional one...
Data, on Star Trek, The next Generation...

if you recall, Data had a problem with communications if
it was emotional in nature.... logical or command types
of communication, he had no problem with.... but understanding
the often subtle aspect of emotions, required much work....
things a human being will often "get" without much effort.....

the emotion of love is not a logical, rational communication....
words often play a small role in the communication of love...
actions play a much larger role in the emotion of love...…

this communication of emotions allows us to communicate
in ways that mere words would not allow us to communicate....

a simple touch of a man to a women or a women for a man, can
communicate far more then just using words...….

we can lie with words... that is true of any words... the words, "I love you"
can be a lie... but actions are much harder to fake...……..
it can be done... but we can often tell the sincerity of words as
well as actions with great deal of accuracy... this is done with
our emotions/feelings rather then our rational/logical side of our
human nature....

we can interpret others actions and words via our own emotions...
something that Autistic people have a hard time doing because
of their failure to properly comprehend emotions.....

Autistic people will miss the clues that we can see because
we are "in touch" with our emotions/feelings....

now because I am hearing impaired, I often miss vocal clues
offered by speech, clues that hearing people will catch.....

but I often catch physical actions that hearing people miss because
I must "read" people without the benefit of hearing them...….

but that is done on an emotional level, not on a rational, logical level...…

quite often, I have to fill in the blanks in conversations because I miss
something someone said...… so I will fill in words or concepts without
really knowing what someone said... and I miss as often as I connect...
but in either case, it is done from a emotional/feeling standpoint.....

after reading some material about philosophy and emotions...
I suspect that philosophers tend to overthink the entire aspect of
philosophy and emotions/feelings.....

but overthinking is something we philosophers do as matter of course.....

I think it is far more straightforward then people want to
make it...………

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon May 28, 2018 1:40 pm

we often make decisions based on emotions/feelings....
not on logic or rational thinking.....
personally, I have more then once made a decision with
the words, fuck it.....now if you are saying fuck it, in regards to a
decision, you aren't being logical or rational....

the problem becomes, we cannot tell the difference between
our rational/logical decisions from our "fuck it" decisions....

we make so many of our choices and decisions based on emotions/feelings...
because it is so ingrained within us to make our decisions, based on emotions or based
on feelings...…

now in regards to decisions, should we make our decisions based on
such emotionalism or on rational/logical thought?

as usual, it depends on the situation..... love is not a rational/logical
choice.... love is an entirely emotional, irrational decision....

now one of the problems with, or issues with emotional/irrational decisions is
the fact that emotions are often dictated by the initial teaching or training
done in childhood where we are indoctrinated with the myths and habits
and prejudices and superstitions of the society or culture...…

these indoctrination's of childhood are not rational/logical affairs,
no, we are indoctrinated with the emotionalism of the society/culture....
to be indoctrinated against blacks, to become prejudice.. is not an rational/logical matter...
it is emotionalism carried into our lives.....to be prejudice is to be limited..
limitations are to be overcome.... if we want to become human, fully human.....

we can depend on emotions....for they are the means of communication
between people and they are the way we understand ourselves....

but rationally/logical thinking has its place too...…

we must come to some understanding of when it is time to
engage in rational thinking and thinking or saying, fuck it.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 4:33 pm

if there is one thing driving America today, it is fear.....

White people are calling 911 on black people who are just
doing things like a BBQ or sitting in Starbucks.....

this fear is being driven by the media arm of the GOP, Fox news....

IQ45 acceptance speech at the GOP convention was a fear driven
speech.. meant to frighten people into voting for IQ45...
and it worked.... people were/are frighten enough to vote for that
pinhead...…….

this is one example of where emotions are overwhelming
any rationality of thought process...……

ask yourself, what emotion drives me?

for most people, it is the negative, lower emotions of
fear, hate, anger, greed, lust, violence...…..

blessed be the peacemakers.... and who are the peacemakers of today?

blessed be the man who turns his cheek.... and who does that today?

blessed be the man who loves his neighbors... and who does that today?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 5:11 pm

and what other myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions,
do we follow till the bitter end?

the religious feeling... the one that promises ever eternal life...
allowing us to forsake this life....this time and this place.....

it is easy to negate other humans and their values if we think
that there is some eternal life awaiting them and us...…

to kill... to punish one for believing in a different heaven or
a different hell is a negation of life and human values...…

and what feelings allow us this type of negation?

the need to be "saved"...…..

the need to be "saved" is a myth, habit, prejudice and superstition
that we carry from our childhood, from the myths we are taught when young....

to negate this world in favor of the next is nihilism...
and any church or religion that favors the next world over this world
practices nihilism...……..

to escape into being "saved" or in negation of today has damaged
the world in untold ways...…. it has made life less worth living and less
worth saving...…..

to focus on the here and now... creates value in our lives...
if all you have is the here and now.. nothing more....
would you waste your days?

it doesn't matter if another worships a different god or
praises allah because all we have is today, the here and now....

and the here and now doesn't care about metaphysical matters....
it is enough to enjoy the warmth of the sun.....
for that is what happens when all you have is the here and now....
the immediate moment is the most important moment.....
and worthy of worship...….

another reevaluation of values..... when the eternal life doesn't matter
and the immediate moment becomes the most important moment....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 5:29 pm

a problem of existence

we have ism's and ideologies and myths and prejudices...
that take the place of experience...…

in other words, we don't experience life... as we should...
we take our interpretations as experience....instead of
being interpretations...….

we say, life is thus... this is an interpretation....

instead we should just experience life and leave the
interpretations to later

we see a play and we ask ourselves, what does the play mean?

and all the while we miss the artistry of the play and the acting
and the writing because we are so busy looking for meaning, interpretations
of the play...……..

this is the beauty of comedy.... it doesn't require interpretations...
it just is...…..

and the very power of comedy leads us to a better understanding of the world...
without the process of interpretations....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 5:43 pm

what is the problem of interpretation?

it is based on the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions of
childhood.... we interpret based on a child basis of understanding which
is the myths and habits we are taught as children.....

in other words, we judge life at a certain age, mine is 59, based
on things we were taught as children... if you haven't overcome
that limitation of our childhood training, then you judge the world
on a child's indoctrination....you interpret with a child's understanding
of the world if you haven't overcome your limitations.....
a reevaluation of values means just that.... you reevaluate (overcome)
your childhood biases and indoctrination and then you can interpret the
world from an adult basis..... and you can understand experiences, not
from childhood biases or indoctrination but based on the experiences
themselves....the problem of interpretation comes from whither if you have
overcome your childhood indoctrination or not.....if you have overcome,
then experiences become something different...….

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 6:22 pm

to judge the world, to act upon the world with fear..
that is a child's emotion.... it is a good and valuable emotion when
one is a child...it helps one to survive by fleeing dangers...

but as an adult, being in fear is a dangerous emotion....
it leads one to irrational and rather stupid decisions...
Hello IQ45......

as an adult, we cannot face the world based on the emotion of fear....
we must overcome, reevaluate, who we are as adults....not based
on our childhood indoctrination.....

we do not need to be a victim to or an accomplice to our childhood
myths and habits and prejudices....our indoctrination.....

we can make a choice....
and we can choose to be adults with an adult attitutude and understanding
of the world........ or we can be held hostage by our childhood indoctrination....

this is the freedom of existentialism.... you can choose to be who you are.....

by overcoming your limitations and your indoctrinations.....

but the path as with all paths, begins with awareness.....

you must be aware of where you are and where you want to be, to
successfully engage in any type of journey.......

to say it another way... a vote for IQ45 was a vote for the lowest base
emotions of the human experience...fear, hate, anger, greed, lust......
to vote for such is to admit you are still held hostage by your childhood
myths, habits, prejudices and superstions, your indoctrinations....

you haven't overcome....you haven't begun the process of a reevaluation of
values.... you have just accepted the values you were taught as a child...
without any understanding of what they are or what they mean.....

as a child, you exist with the base values because you don't know any better...

as an adult, you do know better and yet, many still hold those childhood
fears and values....

it is easy to claim traditional values are the best... because it means you don't
have to think or wonder or understand what "traditional values" mean...

thus you don't or can't understand the problem of existence because
your "traditional values" don't allow or accept that there is even a problem
of existence.....

the traditional problems of philosophy was god, freedom and immortality...
this is wrong...… the problem of philosophy is simple, how do we become
who we are... and this means an overcoming or reevaluation of our childhood
indoctrination...…..

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 29, 2018 6:44 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:to judge the world, to act upon the world with fear..
that is a child's emotion.... it is a good and valuable emotion when
one is a child...it helps one to survive by fleeing dangers...

but as an adult, being in fear is a dangerous emotion....
it leads one to irrational and rather stupid decisions...
Hello IQ45......

as an adult, we cannot face the world based on the emotion of fear....
we must overcome, reevaluate, who we are as adults....not based
on our childhood indoctrination.....

we do not need to be a victim to or an accomplice to our childhood
myths and habits and prejudices....our indoctrination.....

we can make a choice....
and we can choose to be adults with an adult attitutude and understanding
of the world........ or we can be held hostage by our childhood indoctrination....

this is the freedom of existentialism.... you can choose to be who you are.....

by overcoming your limitations and your indoctrinations.....

but the path as with all paths, begins with awareness.....

you must be aware of where you are and where you want to be, to
successfully engage in any type of journey.......

to say it another way... a vote for IQ45 was a vote for the lowest base
emotions of the human experience...fear, hate, anger, greed, lust......
to vote for such is to admit you are still held hostage by your childhood
myths, habits, prejudices and superstions, your indoctrinations....

you haven't overcome....you haven't begun the process of a reevaluation of
values.... you have just accepted the values you were taught as a child...
without any understanding of what they are or what they mean.....

as a child, you exist with the base values because you don't know any better...

as an adult, you do know better and yet, many still hold those childhood
fears and values....

it is easy to claim traditional values are the best... because it means you don't
have to think or wonder or understand what "traditional values" mean...

thus you don't or can't understand the problem of existence because
your "traditional values" don't allow or accept that there is even a problem
of existence.....

the traditional problems of philosophy was god, freedom and immortality...
this is wrong...… the problem of philosophy is simple, how do we become
who we are... and this means an overcoming or reevaluation of our childhood
indoctrination...…..

Kropotkin



Where does fear place the rexpgnition of it? Sis the latest election found a fearful Trumpian rhetoric the spark that resulted in am improbable outcome of the election, or were people voted as a result of finding an intolerably fearful situation they saw themselves in?

This does , of it can be answered, solve Your initial doubt as to whether the social structure , or the instinctual fear which brought violence about? Or can they, must they be deduced tangentially?
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 8:00 pm

most people miss the point....

you don't find yourself in a "intolerable fearful situation"....

you mentally create an "intolerable fearful situation"...…

I have traveled all over and I've never encountered a situation
that required me to fight or need a weapon or even be afraid of....
my wife has done some traveling and she has encountered, with me,
situations she found fearful.. I didn't find them so.....

so was the situation actually fearful or was it mentally created?

I suggest that we create or interpret situations from our myths, habits,
prejudices and superstions that we are indoctrinated with, and
thus we create or mentally create "intolerable fearful situations"

it is the fear that drives our understanding of the situation, not
the situation itself.... that is why white people call the police on
black people who are BBQing or just sitting in starbucks....

they interpret the situation as being dangerous because they
have not overcome or reevaluated their childhood biases, myths,
habits..........

to say a black man or two, quietly sitting in a Starbucks is
dangerous is to confirm those prejudices and superstions and
indoctrinations of childhood....

this is fear driving our actions and behavoir......
one makes of a situation with tools that one has....
if your tool is about fear, then you will be fearful of a situation...

in other words, if all you have is a hammer, then every thing looks
like a nail...

if all you have is fear, then everything becomes dangerous...
everything.........

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 29, 2018 8:16 pm

if you believe in capitalism as a ism and ideology...
and capitalism is driven by and has as it basic
requirement... greed..... then by default,
you accept the idea that "MAN" is driven by greed...
a false idea but one generated by the requirements
of the ideology of capitalism....your belief creates
the "reality" of the world.. and you react to this belief....

in other words, by believing people are driven by greed,
you assume everyone is driven by greed....

if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed May 30, 2018 4:33 pm

the tools one uses determines the work one is able to do....

if I have as my tool, logic, then everything looks like a logical problem....
if I have as my tool, emotion, then everything looks like an
emotional problem....

but the real problem arises when we when used to make an emotional
judgement and we think that it is an rational response to something....

sometimes we mistake emotional tools as logical tools....
and sometimes we mistake logical tools as emotional tools....

how am I suppose to "feel" about something?

how am I suppose to "think" about something?

we use "feel" and "think" interchangeable, but is it?

try to understand how you come up with a decision....

was it logic or was it emotions?

I am willing to bet, we decide most things emotionally
and not intellectually.....

and we can't even tell the difference... because we are so used
to using them interchangeably.....

so think of your process into making decisions...
what is your process?

and I am willing to bet it is emotionally, not rationally.....

and so we have people one ILP who make arguments for
liberals being shot and/or being deported or making jews
scapegoats for what ails society or what ever prejudices
they have.... and that is the point.....
they mistake their prejudices and myths and habits
and superstitions as being a thought process when in fact,
it is simply their childhood indoctrinations that they are
repeating... but they can't see their childhood indoctrinations..
they think that they are being rational or logical or some other
process but in the end, it is a prejudice turned into opinion....
and nothing more.....

they haven't overcome their limitations of the childhood
indoctrinations.....

to those who assume that their prejudices and childhood myths and
superstitions, are the reality of the world... you haven't escape
your childhood, you are simply repeating it without any thought....

and that is what happens if you don't overcome your childhood
myths, biases, prejudices, superstitions and habits...…
you use those to understand or interpret the world...
and because those biases and myths and prejudices are
simply in your head and not in reality, you have a
false and skewered vision of reality...………

you are seeing the world through childhoods eyes
and childhood reality because you are using your childhood's
biases and myths and prejudices to interpret and understand the world,
and not adult eyes and adult realities...……
you haven't overcome...…

am I understood?

I doubt it because who here as the courage for an attack upon their convictions?

most people here congratulate themselves for the courage of their convictions....

and they fail to see...……

I am talking to you...…..

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed May 30, 2018 5:37 pm

what myths and biases and prejudices and superstitions
am I talking about? the childhood indoctrinations
of state, religion and of man.....

that America is the greatest country on earth is one such myth,
the cult of American exceptionalism...…

that there is a god and a heaven and hell and one
must be saved...… prejudice of the worst kind.....

that we have a fixed and determined nature..
man has a fixed and determined nature...…

that the jews conspires to control all...

that being liberal is a mental disease....

all myths and prejudices and superstitions we were taught....

childhood indoctrinations all...….

but have you overcome?

have you challenged your convictions/myths/prejudices/ biases?
have you overcome your childhood indoctrinations?

Socrates said, know thyself.....
Nietzsche said, become who you are.....
have you overcome?

these are the same sentence...….

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed May 30, 2018 6:05 pm

it has been said that one who philosophizes is also confessing....

but what am I confessing?

the myths and biases and superstitions and prejudices
I have today.... then I must overcome these.....
and then confess to the new myths and biases and superstitions
and prejudices of the week....

I must always be in the process of overcoming....
overcoming my limitations.....

that is what I continually confess....
the latest myths and biases and prejudices I have...…

what is your confession?

what is your philosophy?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 31, 2018 6:41 pm

the problem of existence...isn't really a problem to most people....
existence just is... and there isn't anything else to it... we just are.....

and for most people, that is enough... existence just is and the modes
of comprehension we have for understanding existence, the biases and myths
and prejudices and superstitions are enough for most people.....

the real story about people is that they take the path of least resistance....
it is easier to follow the lower, instinctual path of human existence....

to follow the higher path of love and peace and charity, that takes work
and sometimes a lot of work.....

it is far less work to simply hate and
be angry and hold to childhood biases and myths.....it is the path of least
resistance...……to simply follow the time worn path of following the
expectations of the family or society and not question or doubt.....

and that is what most people do... they follow the myths and habits
and prejudices...……..the indoctrinations of childhood.....

we are creatures of habit...……. even to the point of living out our lives
to already set habits... habits set by generations past.....

so the problem of existence doesn't exist for most people..
because they have their myths and habits and prejudices,
and that allows people the ability to avoid the problem of existence....

for most people the question becomes, how do I best fit into this system?

but for a few, a lucky few, the question of existence, the problem of existence
is such, that we not only question how we fit into the system, but if
the system is the right system? we question the very system itself.....
and such is the problem of existence.... we question the system itself....

it is not enough to engage with the system but one must begin with
doubt about the system and the system's usefulness...….

for most people, it is enough to engage with problems like who
will pick up bobby after work and what is for dinner and where will
we go for our next vacation.....that is as far as people go in questioning
the status quo.....it become questions about how to work within the system,
and what is necessary to move up within the system and how to
"improve" one's live via the reigning ideology/religion which is
materialism... buying goods...……

most people live shallow, superficial lives engaged with shallow,
superficial matters...…. the lower level of human existence....
and why? because it is the path of least resistance...…
it takes less work to take the path of least resistance.....
and it doesn't demand much to take such a path.....
you simply go on autopilot and live out your life...
the system, the myths and habits and prejudices of childhood
will simply carry one from birth to death without any doubts
or confusion or questions about the problem of existence.....

one simply lives from birth to death with the waters being calm
and the mountains steady and firm and the river flowing in its banks.....

and what of the rest of us? we live in the moment of Zen…..
where the sea is wild and in a frenzy and the mountains
dance like waves and the river overflows its banks...…

most people never reach this moment of Zen…..
where our very existence is in doubt...….

this is the moment where we truly wonder about the problem
of existence...…….. we doubt and we question and we find
the very earth we stand on, to be of quicksand......

the problem of existence shakes us to our very core....

and most people blithely go on with their shallow and superficial
lives..... never knowing or understanding what we face, as we stand
in front of Nietzsche's abyss...

the problem of existence isn't a light or superficial affair..
one taken lightly like a glass of wine at night...…

when face with the problem of existence... one takes a bottle
of Jack and fortifies with all the courage one can muster.....

for the problem of existence challenges one to very bottom of
your existence...… for the problem of existence is an all or nothing
matter...………either you commit all the way or you don't and if you don't,
go back to your easy path of myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions....
your childhood indoctrinations... they are the easy path.....

you must challenge the problem of existence.....
or as the ancient Hebrews thought of it, they wrestled with god.....

have you overcome the easy path of myths and habits and prejudices
and superstitions?

is the problem of existence, even a problem for you?

no, why not?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 31, 2018 6:55 pm

the definition of insanity: doing the exact same thing
over and over and over again and expecting different results...…

so by following the exact same myths and biases and
prejudices and superstitions as everyone else...
how do we expect to have different results?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 31, 2018 7:19 pm

we have myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
from our childhood indoctrinations...…..

but what are they?

god, country, nationalism, white superiority, the negation of
minorities and of women and religions.....

are all myths and biases and habits and prejudices and superstitions....

so what of those who have taken the easy path of nationalism and
of white power and haters of women and minorities and Jews?

they are defenders of the faith.... defenders of their childhood indoctrinations.....

and the greater they defend their indoctrinations, the weaker they really are....
for they lack the courage to overcome.... they lack the courage to see beyond
their myths and prejudices and superstitions...… they are weak and they know it.....

it is only by hiding behind their childhood indoctrinations, do they feel strong
and powerful...……and the harder they fight for their biases and prejudices, the
weaker they really are...…… the man who fights for the right to be prejudice
and superstitious is the true "sheeple"...………..he can't even stand up for himself
and overcome his childhood biases and prejudices.....

a small man indeed.....and a foolish one...……


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 31, 2018 7:36 pm

did your parents teach you about god?

did your parents teach you nationalism?

did your parents teach you American exceptionalism?

do you still hold these beliefs?

if so, then you haven't grown or change or become something new.....
since childhood.... sad actually.... that you haven't changed since childhood

you have no courage of challenging your beliefs and no
strength of character...….

relying on old, tired, worn out clichés of how great America is
and how white is right and of American exceptionalism...…

you small person who bleats of hate and anger and biases of childhood...
USA, USA, USA, USA, USA...……… and the Jews control everything
and hate everything different than you... because you are weak and a coward...
afraid to challenge your childhood biases and myths and prejudices...…..

proud of the courage of your convictions....
but lacking the courage for an attack upon your convictions...…

take away your hatred and your childhood biases and prejudices and what
do you leave behind? nothing..... nothing at all.....and that is your fear....
you hope no one ever figures out that outside of your childhood indoctrinations,
you have nothing... nothing at all...not courage, not bravery, nothing.....
just weakness and cowardliness.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 31, 2018 9:38 pm

so we return to existentialism... and its understanding of
the "authentic" life...….

and this revolves around the question of our childhood indoctrinations....

if we accept and act upon those childhood indoctrinations of
myths, biases, habits, prejudices and superstitions....
then we operate under the tenants of the past.....
the truths of our grandfathers and great grand fathers
exists within those childhood indoctrinations....

but can you call living with the myths and biases and prejudices
of the past, being authentic? I don't see how.....if we believe
in the myths of nationalism and the myth of American exceptionalism,
then what exactly is "Authentic" about you? you don't have thoughts or
understandings of the world based on your experiences and your interpretations of
the world.... someone else has given to you, your understanding of the world...
how is that "being Authentic"?

the false, phony distorted understanding of the world you have is from
your society and your state and your church and your parents, but
what is yours? and without bringing something of you into this mix of
childhood indoctrinations, what exactly is your contribution?

your very beliefs you act upon and willingness to die for, isn't your beliefs
or myths or prejudices or biases or superstitions.... those beliefs and myths
and prejudices were given to you by someone else as your means of
orientation into the world.....what your place in the world was given to
you by others...….your parents, your state, your church, your culture....
and because you lack the courage of overcoming your limitations,
you live and die by, the childhood indoctrinations you were given.....

and living and dying by childhood indoctrinations isn't what I would
call, "Authentic"...… to be "Authentic"... one must bring to the table
the understanding of the world brought by your overcoming your childhood
indoctrinations...…….

only in overcoming can you really and truly be "Authentic" because
now the beliefs and thoughts and prejudices and myths are yours
and yours alone...… derived from the blood, sweat and tears of
the overcoming of your childhood...…….

there is no way to overcome without being in the Zen moment....
where everything is tossed up and down and all around....
you can only reach being truly "Authentic" by the path of most
resistance....wrestling with god.. as the ancient Hebrews said...….
it is a tough road to follow, to overcome and find out who
you truly are...to become who you are isn't easy and it isn't
very pretty and it is full of dark days of doubt and fear...…

but to become "Authentic" one must pass through the darkness into
the light of becoming who you are...…….

to find your possibilities, not other people or myths or prejudices possibilities...
but your possibilities.....that is what it means to be "Authentic" to discover who you
are...…and that is only possible taking the high road into the mountains of self learning....

the path of least resistance is the path to being "Inauthentic"...…..

you want to be "Authentic", take the least traveled road..... and be ready to
suffer.... for the only path to be "Authentic" is the hard painful road of
overcoming...…

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Dan~ » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:33 am

the false, phony distorted understanding of the world you have is from
your society and your state and your church and your parents, but
what is yours? and without bringing something of you into this mix of
childhood indoctrinations, what exactly is your contribution?

Peace and silence is our birthright.
It's something men flee from.
They fight, and pull, and scream, rather than embracing peace and acceptance.

I consider it a memetic disease of sorts.
It spreads faster than it is overcome.
Therefor it exists.

Our original, undivided, silent, wordless mind, is an authentic self.
It's still there, but you have to de obstruct it.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Dan~ wrote:
the false, phony distorted understanding of the world you have is from
your society and your state and your church and your parents, but
what is yours? and without bringing something of you into this mix of
childhood indoctrinations, what exactly is your contribution?



D: Peace and silence is our birthright.
It's something men flee from.
They fight, and pull, and scream, rather than embracing peace and acceptance.

I consider it a memetic disease of sorts.
It spreads faster than it is overcome.
Therefor it exists.

Our original, undivided, silent, wordless mind, is an authentic self.
It's still there, but you have to de obstruct it.


K: this "original, undivided, silent wordless mind"

think about it... you are born...for that second and it is only a second..
you are that "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind".....

from that second to the second you die, you have incoming
sensations, events, experiences that your senses record and
and transmit to your brain...… a newborn doesn't have the tools
to interpret these experiences as recorded by the senses....
the ear hears and the newborn doesn't have the experience or
knowledge to understand that noise... it is just noise and nothing
more to the newborn.... the newborn has nothing to judge or
understand that noise....we who are older and have experience,
might know that noise as talking....but it takes a while to make
sense (from a newborn perspective) what talking is and what's its
purpose...so that is why dad's and mom's will talk to the newborn
and say, "da-da" and point to themselves... its an attempt to
have the newborn understand that the noise, "da-da" means
something....and the newborn won't understand what "da-da"
means because understanding requires connections from the
experience or event or person to another experience or event or
person...…

I say "da-da" to a newborn and point to myself....now am I pointing out that I am a man,
or a father, or someone without hair, or have facial hair or wear Hawaiian
shirts? what exactly does "da-da" mean? to understand what a "da-da"
is, what a father is, actually quite a sophisticated piece of thinking....

now think back to our original thought.....

that we must return to our "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind"

how does that "original, undivided, silent wordless mind" understand
such concepts as "da-da" or father or what talking is?

how does an "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind"
understand the world? how does comprehension work
in a "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind"?

this concept of the "original, undivided, silent wordless mind"
really strikes me more of the metaphysical, mysticism that
people like to engage with.....instead of just sticking with the
facts as we know them...………

there is no evidence of any type for a "original, undivided, silent, wordless, mind"
it is more of the wishful thinking school of thought....it reduces the
problem of existence down to "just simply become what one once was"....
simple become, "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind" just become that
once again...…. but we were never that in the first place...…

there is no evidence that we were once, "original, undivided, silent, wordless mind"
so there is nothing to go back to.....the point is, the journey of life, is forward....
always forward.... that is the problem of existence.... the path is forward, never
back.....you can't solve anything by looking back or returning to something that
never was...……….the problem of existence is always ahead of us, never behind us.....


what am I to do? what is the moral life? what are my possibilities?
who am I? what is my place in the universe?

all questions of the forward kind.... now the past may provide clues to
your understanding of, who you are...…..and the past may provide clues
to, what are my possibilities? and what is the moral life? is certainly
something the past may help us answer, but the question itself faces
forward, not back......the past experiences may aid us in understanding
but is not a guarantee of future performance or understanding...…

we strive forward, but understand looking past...…

it is rather hard to explain, I will grant you.....but it is important to
try to understand...…...

there is one direction and one direction only for human beings..
and that is forward, into the future.... and that is where our
mind and thinking and understanding must lie.....to return
to some mystical "original, undivided, silent, wordless, mind"
is to reject one of the basic problems of existence...
everything flows forward, never backward...……..
and our understanding of who we are and what are
our possibilities must also flow forward, not backwards.....

who am I? what is possible for me? what is my journey?

answers that require, demand us to look forward, not backwards....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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