a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:35 pm

remove the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions of
a person and what is left? apparently not much.... what do we believe
that is not a myth or not a habit or not a prejudice or not a superstition?

remove any ism or ideology, capitalism, nationalism, religion,
and what is left?

for most people, they would be an empty shell.....
is that a failure of education or a failure in people in general or
a failure in society?

remove that which is a ism inside of me and what is left for me to believe in?

so the question really becomes, what should I believe in?

stripped of our habits and myths and prejudices and superstitions,
what is left for us to believe in?

I offer up a couple of a different things..... ONE, a trust in experience.....
we have experiences and we understand the world in terms of and in light
of these experiences......experience has taught us that we are equal......
for to be unequal means to be treated differently... and everyone wants
to be treated the same or said a different way, equally treated.....

and in in this being treated equally, we want, we expect to be treated equally
politically and judicially.... so justice and equality are the same thing......

so remove myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions, we
would be treated equally because without those myths and prejudices
and habits, we wouldn't treat those with wealthy and power and those of
importance any different than we treat anyone else.....

we treat people differently like those in wealth and power because of
the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions we follow....
and we treat those with disabilities different because of myths and habits......

remove those myths and habits... and we would treat everyone the same,
we would practice equality and we would also practice justice..... for they
are the same thing........

for without myths or habits or prejudice to guide us, we would use experience and
experience tells us that some people lie and some cheat and some tell the truth and some
are honest.........and experience tells us that by their conduct and people's actions,
we treat them differently, not by myth or habit or prejudice, but by actions do we
treat people differently......

we allow experience to guide our judgments and actions...
not myths or habits or prejudices or superstitions......
but experience......we would no longer use those myths and habits
to guide us, but experience... no longer would we use ism's and ideologies to
guide our actions or tell us who we are, we would use experience to guide us
and tell us who we are.......

so what does this mean to education, for example? we would no longer use
education to promote myths or habits or prejudice, but to the understanding
of experience is the point of education........ how would you explain this
experience becomes the standard line in education.......knowledge or facts
becomes a means to understanding experience........

a total revision of the educational system is what is needed......

but what about the emptiness of the soul without myths and habits
and prejudices and superstitions to keep the soul company?

we now tell stories of the interconnection of everything.....
we humans are connected to each other, we humans are connected
to earth, we humans are connected to every atom in space and time......

for that is the point of these myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions anyway...
a means to connect people to each other... we will do the same thing but without
those myths and habits......we will connect people with experiences and with
an understanding of how we are connected and interconnected to everyone and
everything........we replace the emptiness of our soul with a new connection to
each other and to everything...... no longer do myths and prejudice inhabit
and guide who we are, but experience and a new connection to each other......

I am an American and I have this myth inside of me and it has been ingrained in me
for as long as I have lived.......but what does being an American actually mean?
it is following certain values...... and frankly having a piece of paper that says I
am an American..... change an artificial line, like make Minnesota part of Canada
and I become Canadian.......and that is all nationality is... an artificial line agreed
to by countries, which is an artificial concept also, we are bounded by so many
artificial concepts like country and nationality and race and creed and religion.....
and such artificial concepts, ism's and ideologies like capitalism and
Communism and Catholicism and Americanism and Materialism....
so many ism's and ideologies that we follow and they are myths and
habits and prejudices and superstitions.......instead of
using our minds/reason and experiences to explain and understand experiences.....
for we explain and understand experience in terms of and in light of
other experiences.........

man is born free and yet everywhere is in chains......

those chains are the myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions of our education... an education which is lazy
because it depends upon arguments from authority and prior
myths and habits........the goal of education is no longer to train
workers or to create consumers... but to free us of our chains,
our myths and habits.......a reevaluation of values......is what is needed....

the truth is not just out there, but inside of us and inside of every
experience we have........

so think about this, remove your myths and habits and try to understand your life
via experiences, what do you now believe in?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:15 pm

as I am studying the enlightenment right now, I do cheat
and look ahead to modern philosophy occasionally....

I have notice that questions that drove philosophy for
centuries no longer are even an issue... for example,
the problem of the certainty of knowledge which drove philosophy
for 200 years, from Descartes to Kant, no longer is even an issue.....

either it has been ignored or declared solved.. I don't know....
but it isn't a topic in modern philosophy except as a historical
understanding of philosophy past.... what drove Descartes was
his attempt to understand how we can be certain of knowledge and this
is how he approached the problem... but this isn't a modern question.....

today we work with language and science and techniques and ....
but not, not how is knowledge certain.........

this evolution of philosophy tells us a couple of things....

first of all, philosophy must be understood historically, within
the context of its time and we understand that the understanding we
reach with philosophy will change even historically......
for example, our understanding of say, Hume, changes with
new historical research into his philosophy and new research into
his times and other theories current during his times......putting
Hume within a historical context helps us better understand what
Hume is trying to say.....take past, present and future of Hume
and we get an better overall understanding of Hume.......he was part
of a system, he had context in his historical times... he was part of the overall
system of the 18 century and he was part of the philosophical system of that time
and he was in turn influenced by cultural and philosophical events of his past
and his present......could we say for example, he was, to use a 19 century phrase,
"alienated from his times"... and it is quite clear from his biography, that this man,
David Hume was a man of his times and existed quite happily in it... to approach Hume
with 19 century or 20 century or even modern terms or idea's is to rip Hume out of his
times, his system...... and to do so, means we falsify or take out of context his person
and thought.....David Hume can only be understood in terms of his times and his
place within the 18 century systems..... he must be understood within the context
of his times and not with modern ideas or philosophical idea's current in our time.....

the next aspect of the changing understanding of philosophy is that
the philosophy of tomorrow will be different then the philosophy of
today which is different then the philosophy of yesterday......
which means idea's like language understanding of philosophy is
historical driven... they exist as part of the times, within the context
of the times and may or may not be part of philosophy in 5 or 10 or
a hundred years.... just as we no longer pay any attention to the
question which drove philosophy for 200 years, the question of the
certainty of knowledge, the questions that drive us today, won't be
applicable tomorrow because of the changing nature of our systems
and the changing nature of who we are and the changing nature
of philosophy itself........ questions that drive us today will most
likely become meaningless tomorrow... and that is a rather depressing
thought, for me anyway... all this hard work of understanding and my
understanding of what is philosophy and its nature will become moot
as I change and philosophy changes and our society changes and our
systems change............the philosophers of tomorrow will simply
ignore my work and work on the questions of their time... it is the
nature of things and philosophy.......

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:21 pm

having studied philosophy from the beginning to where I am now which
is the enlightenment.. I now face my greatest challenge which is
an in depth study of David Hume...I shall spend more time
on Hume then I shall spend on any philosopher up till now....
partly because it was Kant who said that Hume "woke him up from
dogmatic slumbers" and so to know Kant, one must know Hume
and from Kant arises 19 century philosophy.... and one must know
Hegel to make sense of such thinkers as Marx.. I must spend a great
deal of time with Hegel..... so, my next year, shall be engaged
with Hume, Kant and Hegel.... a long year indeed...and in preparation
for Hume, I went out and bought several books on Hume... spent a fair
amount of money.... but if I am to make a stand in philosophy, I shall
make it with Hume, Kant and Hegel......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:55 am

here I am attempting a thought experiment:

so genetic codes for all life.... we are programed via
our coding which is part of the messenger RNA..
Genetic code is basically the rules by which information encoded
within genetic material is translated into proteins by living cells....

so by these genetic codes, we can understand that a person, a man,
cannot, cannot grow wings... because his code, the rules won't allow him
to grow wings... wings like an angel wings for example....

these rules which are coded within our RNA is what makes us a certain height or
have brown hair or be a certain skin color.... we cannot go outside of the rules coded
in us.........

so we also have rules of the universe... a certain coding within the universe
and these codes are, in part, the 3 laws of thermodynamics, among other laws....

so the universe cannot go beyond these three laws.. just like we cannot go beyond
our coding..... so what happens if the universe does, somehow, go beyond one of the
three laws? the stability of the universe depends upon the three laws being obeyed....
because if they are not obeyed they the universe will suffer instability.... and in any
system instability, the system will quite likely fail or collapse........

so if for some reason, the sun decides to disobey the basic rules, like for example,
he simply goes out of the path the sun has been on for, forever basically...
the sun just leaves the planets behind, those dam deadbeats the sun says,
and he takes off......what happens? well, the solar system fails or collapses......
it becomes chaos and anarchy within the solar system which in fact without the sun,
is no longer even a solar system........our system fails...... for material objects in
the universe must obey the basic rules of whatever system they are in... and every
single system has rules, we may not know or understand the rules for any given system,
but every single system has rules and any attempt to violate those rules leads us
to a system collapse.... every single system collapse if it doesn't follow the rules.....

which leads us to the question of how did those rules get set up?
depends on the system..... for example, baseball, it rules were
created 150 years ago and as the game progressed, the rules changed..
it is a system with rules and it goes along its way as long as the rules are being
followed by everyone.......

this leads us a couple of different ways...... if IQ45 doesn't follow the rules,
that has been set up, it creates chaos and possible collapse.... the system,
any system must have rules of some sort... and by violating the rules, IQ45
threatens to damage and possible destroy the American system......

one might claim that Obama violated the rules, but the clear fact that
the system wasn't in chaos or threaten with possible collapse suggest that
Obama in fact did follow the rules...... today we see chaos every single day
with the GOP and with IQ45 with their brazen attempts to maintain their
power by violating the rules of the system.......

you can stretch this idea in many different ways.....

for example, in miracles, religious miracles..... and here is where we
get the Hume connection because one of his attacks was upon this idea of
miracles...if the system, any system has rules and the rules must be followed
or we get chaos and possible collapse.....now miracles violate the rules,
scientific rules like the 3 laws of thermodynamics.... let us take for example,
the bible has the sun stopping over the battle... uh,.... Joshua 10, NIV......
where the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down for about
a full day.......we have our three laws of thermodynamics... the law of inertia is
the first law.... "an object in motion... the sun....continues in motion with the same
speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force"

but the sun and the solar system is part of a much larger system, we
are surrounded by many stars and solar systems.... you cannot stop one
and expect the whole surrounding area not to be disturbed or effected....
the stopping of the sun would create widespread interference and an action
that is quite a bit further beyond just the earth or sun......

let us say, you claim just the earth was stopped.... now we have real
problems.... if the earth stopped, what would happen?

think of a car with passengers.... the car hits a brick wall and stops...
but the people and material inside the car is still moving.... you have
quite a mess and dead people on your hands.... stop the earth and
you still have everyone and everything on earth still moving.....we would
suffer the same fate as the passengers in the car.........we would tumble
and fly into the direction that the earth was spinning...... and yet we have no
record of any such thing and believe me, it would leave quite a mark on
planet earth... think of all that water that was still moving on a stopped planet.....
the planet may have stopped but the water didn't stop and it will keep on going....

so in two ways you cannot have the miracle of Joshua......and we can
continue this in terms of any miracle you may present me.... the laws of
the systems, regardless of the system cannot be violated without severe
consequences to the system, chaos and possible collapse of the system.....

so I believe that Hume was right, we cannot have miracles such as given
in the bible......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:55 pm

we will be touching on areas we have hit before but with a slightly
different ending.....

there are schools of thought in regards to whether we
have innate idea's or do we gain knowledge via experience....

I stand with the experience group......if you think about it,
we gain all our knowledge with experience....

look at children.... they must be taught everything....
from what is heat and cold to learning to separate
themselves from other people..... experience teaches children
they are separate entities from other people.....and we must teach children
1 + 1 = 2... and basic point of language..... now some have made the argument
that children learning language is "innate"..... now that depends on how you
define innate.........I believe that language is only innate in a the sense
that a million years of speaking has rewritten the code within the brain
and thus has allowed speaking.... but, I have heard it said that children learn
to speak language "perfectly" and that is clearly not true......if that were
true, we wouldn't need to have children take years and years of English, for
example..... we spend time with children learning such things as the, to be verb....
I am, you are, he/she/it is, we are, you are, they are..... if language with innate,
why must we spend so much time learning such basic things as I am and you are.....
and if math were innate, then why do we spend years teaching math?

I recall my youth of 1 + 1 =2 and 1 + 2 = 3 and 1 + 3 = 4.... if this is innate, we wouldn't
have spent years, YEARS, learning this stuff.......

what I think happens is this.... people forget their childhood, forget the years spent
learning all the crap we need to know to become adults.......

it is easy to claim we have innate idea's when we are adults because
we have forgotten our long youth of learning such things as language
and math....... a child has to be taught everything.... what are fingers,
what is colors, what is 1, what is hot, what is mom, what is grandpa,
what is light, why do you think children have so many questions about
things..... why do birds fly? where do children come from? why is the sky blue?
they don't know anything, anything at all.... and it must be taught to them.....
now some things are instinct such as the flight or fight instinct we have or
our natural fear of falling......

now for example, people might bring up this idea of children having
dreams or nightmares of monsters under the bed..... but like everything
monsters under the bed is learn, try reading a children's book, it is full of
terrors and monsters and creatures... no wonder children have fears of
the monster under the bed..... they learn that from children's books or
on TV or in the movies... think about children's movies..... they are full
of monsters and terrors.....

would a child that hasn't read a children's book or seen a children movie,
would that child still have monsters under the bed? I don't think so.....
the children experienced the monster and then by imagination, put that monster
under the bed or in the closet....... the child cannot create a monster
from just the thoughts in their head.... the monster needs to be experienced
for the child to put it under the bed.......

now if you want to create different people, then you must change the
experiences of children..... we become who we are by experiences
and by having different experiences we can change people.......
for the most part, we know that those people who engage in violence,
either domestic violence or random violence were exposed to violence as
children.... they experienced violence and they return to that violence
they experienced.....mass killers were quite often as children exposed
to violence, they were mistreated as children, they experienced violence
and they return to violence as they return to something they know........

how we are treated as children, will tell us how we act and interact
as adults...the experience of a child repeats itself in adulthood.......
does this cover absolutely everyone? no, of course not.....
there is always an exception to every rule....and to make the exception
the deal breaker of my saying, that the experiences of a child repeats
itself, doesn't negate my saying it...... the exceptions, they don't disprove
what I said about childhood being repeated in adulthood......

we are who we are by the experiences we have as children and as
teenagers and as adults..... it is the experiences we have that
determine who we are.....

so with this, we can begin to understand that to create a better society,
we must have better experiences for children.....if we have children
have bad experiences as children, that damages them and that damage
lingers into adulthood.... it creates who we are........

if you wonder why life is so cheap, it is because we treat children
lives as cheap...........if we deny them food, shelter, education, clothing,
then we are treating their lives as cheap and meaningless..... we reap what
we sow and into adulthood and that is what we shall see from those children...


Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:03 pm

morality: if you want to have "moral" people, you first
have to understand your goal.......

Morals have nothing to do with god or any religious action....
think of society as a boat... and we have many people on this boat.....
as long as people sit peacefully on this boat... the boat just floats
along the river with no problems.... but what if started to get up
and fighting and causing arguments all over the boat? the boat
becomes unstable and is in danger of capsizing.... society is that boat
and we are passengers on that boat....it takes all of us to keep that
boat working and afloat.....but what if a large group of passengers decide
to just do their own thing regardless of what is happening on the boat.....
that is capitalism..... following your happiness no matter how much danger
it puts society in, the boat....granted, if the boat is big enough and sturdy enough,
it could take quite a bit of individualism within the boat to threaten the boat from
going down.... how the boat is run, that is a matter of preference.... it could
be lead by a traditional hierarchy, Captain, second in command and first mates and
all the rest or it could be run more on a equality basis or even other ways.....
as the boat is just floating down the river, its main goal is to avoid capsizing......
for the boat to thrive and grow, we must all work together to make the boat as
safe and sea worthy as possible....we must practice equality and justice to make
the boat function.... think of a boat where some passengers have better rooms
and is waiting on hand and foot because they have more resources then other
passengers even though contribute the same as other passengers.....
a boat where some passengers are treated differently because of
race, creed, color, wealth, will be a boat heading toward trouble.....
here is where human nature takes over..... why is he being treated
better then I am just because he is.....this results in anger and jealousy
and envy regardless of the person, if in a situation one person is treated
differently because of accidental reasons, it causes resentment
and creates problems within the boat..... this is why we must treat
all passengers with equality and justice.....it helps keep the boat
from capsizing with discontent and hatred and anger.....

so what is needed on this boat.... first of all, we must have
an environment that is conducive to allowing people to have
the resources they need to survive.... and by resources, we
also need, not just material things like food, water, air, education,
but we need love and security and hope, as much as the basics
necessities...... and our environment must allow that......
it is not competitiveness that grow the human soul but love
and being wanted and security that allows us the room to become
who we are....so we must focus on environment first of all......

if you want healthy, valuable, hard working individuals?
then you must value them and love them and cherish them....
the environment decides who we become.... if we have a harsh
and rough environment, that is who we will become........
our environment dictates who will be and so with that in mind,
we must create an atmosphere that is positive and not negative....
so we must give them the tools they need to succeed......
books, papers, pens, computers, great teachers, we must foster
an positive environment within the schools.... that is the environment
which allows children to succeed..... then we can add in competition......
for there is nothing wrong with competition as long as it is secondary....
a complement to the positive environment we must provide for the children.....
we must encourage the positive traits of human beings, cooperation,
working together, valuing each other, listening to each other.......

we must discourage the negative traits of human beings, greed, anger, lust,
envy, hate..........

to create the environment of positive and lasting growth, we must work together.....
and that is the point, we must emphasize working together and cooperation as
the success method of becoming who we are....you want to raise healthy,
happy, successful people, it begins with the environment we provide to them.....
simple as that.....to achieve this today, requires a reevaluation of our values....
because today we emphasize tax cuts to the rich, materialism, individualism,
money/profits, values that harm society.......values that don't promote
a positive environment to raise children...... must we cater to children and
make them our focus instead of us.....YES, yes we must do that.....
that is what parents do, we focus on and promote children's values over
our own selfish values...... we put children first with an understanding
that the key to raising children is environment and we must create a public
environment that values positive values.... not negative values like hate
and violence and anger........

this is why IQ45 is so dangerous, he promotes negative values like hate
and anger and violence.....and why Obama was so good, he promoted
positive values as should we...... so you want to improve the world...
begin with improving the environment of people.......make positive
values the ones we pursue and engage in... cooperation, tolerance,
service to others, love, hope.........

it all begins with environment.....

so how are you going to improve your environment?
how are you going to make it better?
how are you going to make the environment of society better?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:49 pm

so what does the above have to do with "Philosophy" ...
that answers comes with an understanding of what philosophy actually is.....

philosophy isn't the pursuit of knowledge, it is the pursuit of wisdom
and there in lies the problem that most people have.....
Philosophy is divided up into traditional areas of study...
Aesthetics
epistemology
ethics
logic
metaphysics

now tell me, which area is the study of wisdom?

recall that the word philosophy itself means...love of wisdom.....
and this is where people go wrong..... they pursue knowledge of one
of these branches of philosophy but they don't pursue the wisdom aspect.....

how would you go about changing people to become "good"?

would you knowledge or would you use wisdom?

a logical question would be what is the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

knowledge is facts.... wisdom is values......oh, we have seen this before haven't we....
science pursues knowledge/facts and philosophy pursues values

this question of the beginning of creating better people seems to begin, here at least,
with knowledge..... creating a better environment is the start of creating better people....

however, it isn't knowledge that answers the question of environment,
it is wisdom.... and sometimes the difference between wisdom and knowledge
is small, very, very small...........

so, what are you pursuing, knowledge or wisdom?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:08 am

ok, let try this again.... tried to post this yesterday and it didn't go well....

Let us take a look at modern life..... what actions do we take that
improve the environment... and we are not talking about climate change or
the earth's environment, we are talking about the human environment....
the environment that human beings create in their contact with each other.....
how do we create a better environment that allows people to become who they are?

it is often said that taxes are the price of having a civilization.. you need taxes to create
a safe and stable and secure environment for human beings, to allow people to create
their own lives... which countries in the world has created safe, stable and secure
environment for their people? it is the counties with the higher taxes.... there is a direct
relationship between taxes paid and a country's safety and stability.... if you argue for less
taxes, you are arguing for less safety and less security and less stability in that country....
less taxes means more chaos in a country and is less conductive for human beings to
become who they are...

thinkin in terms of pocketbook politics runs the risk of dismissing the more
important aspects of human life... or said another way, you get what you pay for.....
if you want your environment to be a safe and stable and secure place, you and
everyone else, must pay for it....

now occasionally, my wife will get cheap on the weirdest things, but
getting cheap on certain things is not only a bad idea but also a dangerous one.....
like parking in San Francisco, you can find cheap spots to park to park, but at what
risk to your car? I would rather spend the money and feel better about my car being
in one piece when I get back... not only for the car, but in piece of mind while we are
out and about walking the streets of S.F.... There is no difference between spending a bit
more for a safe environment for my car and paying a bit more for the safety and security
of my civilization...creating a safe and secure environment for all of us... and that cost
money.....

so a private tax cut to benefit a small or single group of people that hurts our ability
to create a better environment, hurts all of us.... it is being cheap at the wrong time.....

I bring this up as a means of understanding how we are connected to our public
environment.... creating a safe and stable public space is just as important as
creating a safe and secure private space... like your home....

think of your living space as a safe and stable environment... you feel safe and secure
in your private living space and, and that is how we should feel in our public spaces.....
Now what do we have to do to make our public spaces as safe and secure and stable as
our private spaces? and that is the question? how do we achieve this?

Paying taxes is one way to achieve safety and security and stability in our public
spaces, another way is of an active and engage community making sure its public
spaces is safe and secure and stable... it is in everyone's best interest that we create
safe and secure and stable public spaces... you want to be able to walk out of your front
door and feel just as safe and secure as you do in your living space....everyone does..
and if say, I don't want a safe and secure public space, you are lying.....

public policy must be engaged with creating a safe, secure, stable public places and
it is only by paying taxes can we achieve this vision....

I cannot be me until I exist in a safe and secure and stable environment and you
cannot be you unless you exists in a safe and secure and stable public space/
environment....

so when we think about public policy, we must think in terms of creating
safe, secure and stable public and, and private spaces/ environments......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:39 pm

if we look to experience as our guide as I have suggested,
then what does experience tell us about life and its goals?

you are born, you then spend 20 years learning how to be a human,
you then spend 40 years working, then you retire and then you die.....

what goal or meaning can we decipher from our overall life or even
or even aspects of it? many of us, we become parents..... and what does
that mean in terms of a goal or meaning in life for us?

think of your individual experiences, which are different then my
individual experiences.... and think of the meaning of those experiences.....
what did those experiences mean? think of education, for example, what
meaning or goal can we come up with the experience of education?
12 years of grade school, 2 or 3 years of JR high school and then 4 years
of high school, then many of us go on to collage and another 4 years of schooling
and some even go for another few years beyond that.... all that education and
what is the goal or point of it? to get a job? an awful lot of education just for a job...

and how much experience do we commit to become better human beings?
how many years of education do we spend on becoming someone who is
better then today?.... oh, we don't do that, the actual experience is supposed
to be enough to make us better human beings.....now one might complain and
say, better, what is better? better then what? and that is the point.....

we don't spend the time understanding what is a better human being
and that is a failure we have.... now one might say, well experience tells
me that a better human being is...... and another might say, no, this experience
tells me what a better human being is.....and another might say, no this experience
tells me that......

individually we cannot make sense out of what does make a better human being,
but collectivly, we can make sense of it.....within the polis, the city, we can
understand what makes a better human being........ it is within our actions
and interactions with each other, experiences, that tell us what will make
us a better human being............

the problem with human beings is we lie to ourselves..... perhaps a means to
give us hope in this life? or perhaps to keep us from killing ourselves?
I don't know, but we lie to ourselves.....I lie to myself..... and you lie to
yourself.....that could be consider the human trait most common to
everyone....... we lie... to ourselves.....so I lie to myself that I am not
in need of improvement....I lie to myself that I am a good decent human being
that I would never commit crimes or do harm to others.... my lies are my lies...
you have your own lies you tell yourself......and we act upon these lie as if they
are some sort of truth.....I classify these lies we tell ourselves as part of the
myth, habits, prejudices and superstitions we have.......

take away our lies and what is left? very uncomfortable truths....
truths we rather not face...I am not as good looking as I think I am
and I am not as smart as I think I am... but perhaps, perhaps the path to
becoming a better person is unmasking the lies we tell ourselves.....

so the path to becoming a better person might exists in overcoming
the lies we tell ourselves.... this can be an individual act but,
the lies we tell ourselves become expose to us in our experiences.....

IQ45 claimed he would have gone into the latest school shooting in FLA even
if he DIDN'T have a gun......as this is a lie which everyone understood as a lie...
but what is the point of lying to oneself? to create a better self image of
ourselves.... to create an self image we can live with......many people
adopt a self image of being a loner and bad guy and a trouble maker......
we see that here..... but strip these people of there self created lies
and what do we see.... lonely, scared people who won't admit the truth
about themselves.... people stick to the lies they tell themselves
because the truth is too painful.....we cannot face the truth about
ourselves..... for me, it is quite possible that everything I have written here
is just crap, mental masturbation and good for nothing...... for my
pride and feeling good about myself, I need to believe that what I write
here has value and is worth reading........ my job sucks... and I must
believe there is some aspect of my life worth the effort.... so I write here
hoping that it has some value, has some philosophical value....

I lie to myself..... and continue to write.....

what lies to you tell yourself?


Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:48 pm

the lies we tell ourselves......those who call themselves Christians....
they claim to be followers of jesus and yet support mainstream GOP
policies.....which are anti-life, anti-poor, anti-minority, anti-women and whose policies
are in favor of greed, hate, lust, anger.... all of which is against the preaching
and values of jesus and the bible.......I am against paying for children's meal
and against meals on wheels and against programs which educate children because
they cost me money in taxes and by the way, I am a Christian....
if money has a higher value then lives, you are in no way, shape or form
a Christian, plain and simple......to support the anti-life policies
of the GOP and also to claim to be christian is simply lying to oneself
this is just the most brazen and obvious lie to oneself in modern America..
but there are plenty of others lies and some of these lies are communal.......we
are the greatest nation on earth......we have the greatest freedom on earth.....
we are the freest people on earth.... and your proof of this is?
and the answer is always, well you know, everybody knows this......

in thinking about this idea I floated earlier, how do we become better people,
would you think that lying a trait that makes us better people?
is a liar a better person then a non liar? do you find lying a trait
you think is admirable? yet, we lie on a personal level, we lie to ourselves
and we lie to others and we lie in a communal group.... how is that
being a better person or help create a better society?

we are in such denial about who we are and who we are
as a people that we don't or can't even see our lies anymore.....
they are so ingrained in us that they become part of who we are,
part of how we see ourselves and how we want people to see us...
we want people to see the lies that make us appear to be better
then we are.... and as a society, we do the same... we lie about
us as a country to make us appear to be better then we really are......

among them any lies we tell is the many, many conspiracies
theories that surround our lives.... you see them here at ILP
in anti-Jewish and anti-women lies of several weak minded individuals
who write here quite often....... but let us understand why?
why would someone court a lie like the anti-jewish conspiracies
that exist around ILP? they lie to make themselves feel better..
they lie to make themselves feel powerful, they lie because
one way to make yourself feel better is by cutting people down....
conspiracies theories aren't much more then cries for help....
help me.. I feel so badly about myself I have to create anti-Jewish
and anti-women attacks and conspiracies...... and how do these conspiracies help
create better people? or a better society? it doesn't... lies upon lies can't help
create a better person or a better society.......

lies are a mean to protect our fragile understanding of who we are...
we use lies to create an better idea of who we are instead of
actually investigating who we really are.....

it is not enough for the courage of our beliefs,
we must have the courage for an attack upon our beliefs.....

we must have the courage for an attack upon our beliefs, our lies
that we have.... that we use to make us feel better about ourselves....

but of course people would rather live with the lies then truly
attack them... because it is easier to live with lies then
live with the truth of who we really are.......
and thus we have the lies we tell ourselves and the lies/conspiracies
we tell others........

do you have the courage for an attack upon your lies, your convictions?

no, I didn't think so......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:45 pm

we have in America, a more religious and conservative
country then any country in Europe.....a liberal in America is
really a conservative in Europe.....but think about the difference
between Europe and the U.S..........

compared to Europe, we in America have a far greater
problems in regards to several area's....
for example, the U.S is far more violent then Europe...
we have a real problem with violence against women,
we have a greater alcoholism problem, the murder rate in America
is far greater then in any country in Europe... but these points lead us to
ask, why?

I would suggest it is because we are more religious and conservative then
any country in Europe.......every country in Europe is more liberal and
tolerant then the U.S and it shows in the fact that Europe has less violence,
less murders, less alcoholism, less violence against women, less rapes...
and the connection is the fact we are more religious and conservative......

now IQ 45 has suggested that the reason we have the sheer number of
mass killings is not due to the presence of guns but the mental illness
of people, but this argument bolsters the fact that if Europe has less violence
and less gun deaths and less rape then America because of mental illness,
then the U.S has a greater propensity to mental illness and this once again
suggest it is because the U.S is more religious and more conservative then
Europe as a whole or any individual country within Europe.....

now many, even here have attack middle easterners for bringing
violence into Europe... which then helps bolster the argument for
the liberal, tolerant society that is Europe.... people from the middle east,
influenced by the Koran are more religious and conservative then the
people living in Europe which once again suggest that reason for the violence
comes from the very nature of being conservative and religious......

no matter what argument you put forward for the reason for the
increased violence in America, it helps bolster the argument
for the much more peaceful and tolerant Europeans........

I would suggest that reason European countries is more peaceful then America with far
less violence, gun violence, violence against women, rapes, is because
of the fact Europe is more liberal and more tolerant.......

the society where the nature is conservative and religious is
a society that is more violent and has more issues, alcoholism for example,
then a liberal, tolerant society........

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:22 pm

so, I decided to research this matter even further..
picking a country at random... France.....
and I am comparing France with the U.S in various categories....

Crime levels: France: 49.47... ranked 36
: U.S: 55.81... ranked 30....13% more then France..

Drugs annual cannabis use: France: 8.6% ranked 4
:U.S: 13.7% ranked 1st.... 59% more then France....

Drugs Opiate use: France: 0.49% ranked 2
U.S: 0.57% ranked 3rd...

Murder rate: France: 1.31%
U.S: 5%

Rape rate: France: 16.2% ranked 21st
U.S: 27.3% ranked 9th

Total crimes: France: 3.77 million ranked 14
U.S: 11.88 million ranked 1st

Violent Crimes; murders: France: 682 ranked 37
: U.S 12,996 ranked 9th, 19 times more then France

Violent Crimes; murder rate
per million people: France: 10.54 ranked 98th
U.S: 42.01 Ranked 43, 4 times more then france....

Violent crimes; Rapes: France:10,108 ranked 5th
U.S: 84, 767 Ranked 1st... 8 times greater then France....

Violent Crimes; rape per
million people: France: 156.22 Ranked 21st
U.S: 274.04 ranked 9th.....75% more then France...

and one more interesting stat:
Fear of crime: feels safe walking home France: 44.89 ranked 56...7% safer then the U.S
U.S: 41.84 ranked 60th.....

so these stats tell us a story.. I just picked France out of a hat... I could
have used any country....I found these stats on Nation? something like that...
anyway, country vs country France and the U.S compared....I shall look up the full
name of the site I found....

anyway, I think my case has been made......

Kropotkin

and the name of the site was NationMaster......
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:50 pm

in reading Hume, I am struck by how despite the fact that Hume
bases his entire philosophy on experiences, his arguments are
of the logical, abstract, inpersonal, esoteric kind of arguments.....

and that is part of his failure......there is no real world applications of
his arguments...... skeptical arguments do not exists outside of this world...
they must remain here.... on planet earth.... grounded in our real world experiences....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:20 pm

In reading Hume (and locke before) one is faced with this idea....

their idea of how we understand both idea's and matter is completly
wrong....

they act as if MAN was somehow turned into an adult and facing the world
for the very first time and trying to make sense of "reality"
but the fact is, we arise from children.....we can never suspend, truly suspend,
our prior understanding of the world which we got from a lifetime of experiences....

in other words, Hume and Locke pretend that when we face a, say a tree,
we try to understand the tree without any notions preconceived by a lifetime
of experiences.....we cannot look at that tree from the preconceived notions
of a lifetime..... notions gained by a lifetime of experiences with tree's.....

I have climbed on tree's, I have fallen off of tree's, I have run into tree's at full speed,
I have learned about tree's from my parents, my schooling, the media.....I cannot
in any way, shape or form, suspend my understanding of tree's from a lifetime of
experiences with tree's....I see a tree and I see that tree with a lifetime of
experiences with tree's.....and to call that tree a universal or particular,
ignores my lifetime of experiences with tree's.....I can never make a
calm, cool, clear subjective statement about tree's because I have over
55 years experiences with tree's.....we cannot ever, see a tree that is free
from our experiences of tree's.....Hume and Locke assume we can understand
tree's free of our lifetimes of experiences with tree's.....we can't......

this is the failure of their explanation about experiences and how we understand
both idea's and matter..... we exists within our experiences and see life through
those experiences....
we cannot separate ourselves from our experiences.....
though Hume and Locke act as if that is what we do......we don't......

and herein lies the problem with them...... they are wrong right from the very
beginning of their explanation of how we understand experiences.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:35 pm

Hume talks about "looking" into our minds, introspection, and seeing
about such things as causality and our understanding of matter.....

but when we "look" into our minds, we see a lifetime of experiences
that dictate how we understand causality for example.... we learn from
a very young age about causuality..... and every single day of our life is some
example of what we learn as a toddler about the notion of causality but, but
we can not make some separate, independent, isolated examination of
causuality in our minds because that understanding is tinged by a lifetime
of experiences with causality.....we cannot understand causality outside of
our lifetime of experiences with causality... we exists within and are a part of
that causality we have experienced our entire life.......we are defined by
and understand causality by our experience with causality....there is no understanding
of causuality without reference to our past experiences with causality.....
to say if we look into our minds to understand causality and we can then, THEN,
understand causuality is bullshit of the highest order..... we understand and experience
causality within and part of our entire life dealing with causuality.... it cannot be separated
from us in some isolated and independent manner.... it is us.......

and we now see the failure of not only Hume and Locke, but of every single
philosopher, ever......I cannot explain causuality to you because my experience
of causality is different then yours and you cannot explain your idea of causality
to me because you have experience causality different then I have.........

we have a common ground to understand the general, basic idea of causuality,
but not the specifics.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:15 pm

I can say, I see a tree outside of my window, I do in fact see a tree outside of my
window.... now you don't have to go look outside of your window to know what
I am talking about because you have a lifetime of experiences with trees and
you don't need to look outside to understand my point... you get it.....

now let us take another example.... Einstein's "theory of relativity"
it was once said, that only 10 people on planet earth understood it
and 9 of those were Germans..... and yet today, we have millions who
understand it.....what happened? what happened was simple....
the idea of relativity was not understood by the general conception
of experiences that we have.... by experiences, we have learned
what the theory of relativity is and what it means..... but we cannot have
an innate understanding of the theory of relativity, because there are no
experiences prior to relativity that would have allowed us to understand it......

now recall that experiences are also the act of teachings and of experiencing
the world and explanations of the world by others... we experience things via
being taught, son, that is a tree...... by running into tree's...... without these
explanations, we cannot know or understand such concepts like relativity.......

so, what if we to encounter something completely new, say, a
alien species came to earth and told us about their philosophy....
we couldn't understand that philosophy because we have no prior
experiences with that philosophy... it would take human beings time to
understand an alien philosophy because it takes time for us to process and
and experience that philosophy......we couldn't understand that philosophy
at first because we have no experience with it......

let us say, you have no prior experience.....like Hume or Locke would
think....can you deduce what a piece of matter is without any prior knowledge of
that matter?

I hand you a piece of matter..... what is it? as I give you clues to this
piece of matter, you may or may not be able to understand this piece of matter.....

it fits into your hand..... it can be moved by your hands.... it is colored..
but you don't know what color is, so you wouldn't be able to understand that

it has a shape, but you don't know shapes and what they mean...
you can describe it but you don't know shapes, so how would you
describe round or square or a triangle if you don't know shapes....

to describe something takes a lifetime of experiences to make such an
description..... you have to have experiences to be able to describe something....

I could say, you are holding a wrench, but it would take prior experiences
to make sense of what a wrench is and what it does...its shape and color....
you cannot make sense of a wrench unless you have some experiences of
a wrench or some other tool to fix things....you cannot know what a wrench
is before experiences... it is not innate....... and idea's fall into this category
we cannot understand idea's before experiences.........
we experience then we understand....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:43 pm

questions we need to be asking:

what answers do we need?

is the goal of life to be...... successful or loved or honored.. to work....
what is the goal of life?

if you look at human beings, what do you see?
I see beings who play... we have sports, games and acting....
all of which is playing a game of some sort....and some of our
highest paid people on planet earth are people who play...
they play sports or games or act....
I would also suggest that telling a story is part of play as is
reading a book....
in fact, we could define human beings as creatures who play.....

talent is someone who can hit a target no one else can hit...
Genius is someone who can hit a target that no one else can see.....
so what target can't we see?

I exist to......what do you exist for?

I belong to.... what do you belong to?

what I want to know is......?

is death the end or the beginning and why do you need to believe in your answer?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:13 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:questions we need to be asking:

what answers do we need?

is the goal of life to be...... successful or loved or honored.. to work....
what is the goal of life?

if you look at human beings, what do you see?
I see beings who play... we have sports, games and acting....
all of which is playing a game of some sort....and some of our
highest paid people on planet earth are people who play...
they play sports or games or act....
I would also suggest that telling a story is part of play as is
reading a book....
in fact, we could define human beings as creatures who play.....

talent is someone who can hit a target no one else can hit...
Genius is someone who can hit a target that no one else can see.....
so what target can't we see?

I exist to......what do you exist for?

I belong to.... what do you belong to?

what I want to know is......?

is death the end or the beginning and why do you need to believe in your answer?

Kropotkin


Peter,
Sometimes there are answers to these types of questions, sometimes they're left open , or remain in the unconscious store. Evolution can be said to work the magic of its working on its own goals without the presumption that we've got the whole nine yards in our hands.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:54 pm

and there is evolution.....it is just another question in the midst
of many, many questions......

one can get lost in the pursuit of the many questions that
plague MAN....

I have tried, as much as possible, to use myself, instead of the
whole human race, to understand what questions are important..
forget answers, dam, I am still working on the questions......

but like morality, I do not exist separate, independent of everything else...
I am part of many different systems... my family, wife and daughter,
my mother and my siblings, work, living in my condo complex, my city,
and my many political AND economic systems.....within each system, I exist
in some fashion.....depending on the system....my role is large or very small......

we cannot account for human beings unless/until we understand both
our small individual role within ourselves and our larger role within the various
systems we each belong to....... I think of it like the scientific problem of
macro systems that Newton and Einstein gave answers to, gravity, which
solved many problems like how the planets and sun and solar system and
the galaxies all worked......and the microsystems, the small, atoms
and the current quest to work out laws that connect the large-solar systems
with the small-atoms...... this is the holy grail of science at the moment....
and a great analogy for human beings and the systems we belong to......

how to connect the micro-human beings... with the macro-the great
systems we see around us... the immense political and economic systems
that dominate the world at this point...... we now see that
the great scientific problem matches the great political/social
problem of our age..... how do we connect the small with the large?

what is the relationship between the atom and the solar system?
what is the relationship between a human being and capitalism?

we can extend this human being part to include democracy or
communism or dictatorship......... whatever political or economic
structure that we must connect.........at this point, I don't think
waiting for a new understanding of evolution will help us solve this
immense problem........

we have our large understanding of the world.. like gravity, in
communism and democracy and capitalism and Catholicism....

and we have our small understanding of who we are....

but to connect the two?

to connect the two requires some facet of experience that
somehow allows us to connect the two.......

because it is from experience that we understand the world...

as my formula says, to understand the world, we must first experience it.....

so what "law" or "laws" like the "laws of thermodynamics" would allow us to
understand our connection to the large?

and perhaps, from this lack of connection, can we attribute our host of
issues that plague human beings? such as alienation, the angst,
the fear we have, the unease of our modern age, the disconnect we
feel in regards to our modern age?

I cannot help but think that we can solve the immense personal issues
that plague us by making some sort of connection between the large
superstructures that exists in our world and the small, us, as individual
human beings.........

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:05 pm

So to connect the two, simply , try dwelling on dreams or phantasies , which may come up unintentionally. ?
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:15 pm

Meno_ wrote:So to connect the two, simply , try dwelling on dreams or phantasies , which may come up unintentionally. ?


K: I don't know the answer.... maybe dreams might be the answer, maybe experience,
maybe some third alternative? that is what I am working on.......

the real key, as far as I can tell, is not the answer, but in how we ask
the question......ask the right question and maybe, maybe we might
find the right answer.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:05 pm

talent is hitting a target no one else can hit
genius is hitting a target no one can see.....

so what can't we see?

We can't see the beginning or the end of things......

we can't see the meaning of or the point of experience.....

we can't see values......for values aren't material objects....



existence or experience....is about the here and now, this time and this place.......

but existence/experience is influenced by and impacted by prior existence/
prior experience......events and people and material goods created in the past
still exists today.....we see the past in our buildings, our language, our body types,
who we are, in our very name we see past existence, past experience.....

the key to understanding life lies not in our understanding of
concepts or in subjects in school like history or English...
but in understanding existence/experience.......

what does it mean to exist? what does it mean to experience?

throw all the rest away and focus on this one point......
I exist today.... that is all I can know for sure....
I exist right here, right now..... I can't be sure about anything else....
but to exist today, as a biological being means I have a past, a past
that extends into the very beginning of biological existence.......

experience or evolution is an extension into the past where
we can trace the biological beings that created me and this moment
into the distant past.....back to 3 billion years ago, when life, however it started,
started..... we can trace us as biological beings back 3 billion years....
we are the latest in experiences or evolution, not the culmination, but
the latest of.........life is simply about existence.......
life is about experience....... life is evolution.....
and all three words, existence, experience, evolution....
are simply three words that mean the same thing........

as a biological being, I am existence, I am experiences, I am evolution....
and my existence, my experiences and my role in evolution
goes on into the future........and I cannot see that either.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:17 pm

still working on things we cannot see.....

Political philosophy is based on the study of politics, liberty,
justice, property, rights, laws and the enforcement of laws by
authority, what laws are and why they are needed, what, if anything,
makes a government legitimate, what rights and freedoms it should protect and
why, what forms should it take, what the laws are, what duties citizens
owe to a legitimate government, if any, and when it may be legitimately
be overthrown, if ever.....

I think these questions, while important, misses the real point....

and the point lies in the very title, political philosophy.....
philosophy is the understanding of values.....
so what values are important in a political sense?

and the second "miss" is this, what is the role of the individual
in a civics sense.... in other words, what is the relationship between
the government and the individual citizen?

our understanding of this relationship does not stem from
our understanding of the economic...in other words,
our economic system, capitalism, the attitude of laissez-faire,
doesn't play into our understanding of the relationship between
the government and the individual citizen.....

to have a laissez-faire attitude from its citizens to its government
is not an acceptable attitude from it citizens to the government.....
for a government to be successful, it must have active, engaged, willing,
participation from its citizens.....it could be argued that the Soviet Union,
failed because it was a top down government and its citizens didn't or
weren't allowed to engaged or be active within the governmental process
of deciding policy.....the U.S has succeeded because its citizens
have been active, engaged and willing participants in government and
the governmental process in deciding policy.....

a laissez-faire attitude from its citizen's about the government and
its actions will lead to the failure of that government..... that is the first
point to remember.....

the second point is about values and the political process.....
this is where philosophy can aid in the political process...

what values are important in the relationship between
a government and its citizens?

as we understand that a society where the citizens react
to the government with a laissez-faire attitude will fail,
we must have active, engaged, willing participation
by its citizens, so to allow the citizens all the knowledge needed
to make participation effective, we must have open, transparent
government......to prevent citizens from having knowledge
of governmental actions and policy, means the citizen
cannot make an honest engagement with the government.....

hiding the truth prevents someone from being able to make
choices about governmental actions and policy...

if in playing a game of chess and I am unable to know
my opponent's move, how can I make good moves?

I can't.... the key to making decisions, any decision, is to have
all the facts, all the knowledge necessary to make an intelligent
choice and by the government hiding information prevents that.....

so, a value we need from government is transparency and openness....
honesty is a value we must have from government to better allow
citizens to make "good" moves......

the key phrase is
"government of the people, for the people, by the people"

either that is true and we must, must have more inclusion of the people,
for the people, by the people in government or we risk failure of the government
as the failure of the Soviet Union shows us.......

so one of the key understanding of the political is the
inclusion of philosophy into the political as we must
begin any thought or action to be taken in terms
of values..... what values do we want to express
by governmental actions and by governmental policy?

do we want to express values like hate, anger, violence,
bigotry in our governmental actions and policy or
do we want to express values like love, hope, honesty,
peace, charity in our governmental actions and policy?

decide on which values we want to express and we effectively
decide governmental action and policy....

do we follow anger and fear by governmental actions
and policy with say, an increase of the already massive defensive
budget or do we express values like peace and love with an equally
impressive increase in our social budget.......

and in this we return to an earlier point, which is
what value is more important, security or freedom?

and we now can express values in terms of governmental
actions and policies by asking, is it security we are focusing on
or is it freedom... with our governmental actions and policy....

which values are we going to support as citizens?

political philosophy is really about which values we should
and must support... and so, political philosophy is about values
and values is philosophy......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6893
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:01 pm

conservatives hold security as the primary goal and
interest of government......security as in a strong defense
force in the world... to "protect" us in an insecure world....

the liberal ask, what is the point of a strong defense if
we don't allow such values as freedom and the right to
our "inalienable rights" as defined by the declaration ...
"the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
and those "inalienable rights" have been extended by generations
of Americans to include the right to the essential
necessities of life which include food, water, shelter and healthcare
and education.....

the conservative considers those essential rights of life of food, water,
shelter.... as to be of less importance then the right to security...
as they, conservatives, have pursued a public policy of increased
"security" spending over increased essential necessities like food and water.....

this is self evident by their spending bills of conservative congresses
and presidents.....in the last spending bill, they cut social services
and increased defense spending.... those actions tell us the values
that conservatives hold.....safety/security over freedom or the essential rights of man
as defined by the declaration.......so which values should we hold?

now the second point of understanding political philosophy is
what is the role of the individual within society/government?

it has been said that political philosophy is really about two things
and two things only.... who is in charge and who pays for things....
that is all political philosophy is engaged with... who is in charge,
who makes the decisions and then who pays for those decisions.....

but nowhere in this cynical viewpoint of political philosophy
is any commentary or concern about values and which values
should, we as a society or government hold?
and that includes which values we as individuals should hold in
regards to governmental actions or policy.....

in which lies my second point, which values should we as individuals
should hold and engage with politically?

the oath of the President states: "he" will to the best of his ability,
preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States"

this lead us to an interesting conclusion about this oath...
it doesn't say, to "defend the United States... no, it says the constitution
of the United States.....the constitution is a continuation of the
"declaration of independence" which is a document about values.....

which values shall we uphold......and what is the role of the
individual citizen in our government.......

as government and political policy seems to be about values..
is the same to be said about our economic system?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6893
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:40 pm

Peter Kropotkin:conservatives hold security as the primary goal and
interest of government......security as in a strong defense
force in the world... to "protect" us in an insecure world....

the liberal ask, what is the point of a strong defense if
we don't allow such values as freedom and the right to
our "inalienable rights" as defined by the declaration ...
"the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
and those "inalienable rights" have been extended by generations
of Americans to include the right to the essential
necessities of life which include food, water, shelter and healthcare
and education.....

the conservative considers those essential rights of life of food, water,
shelter.... as to be of less importance then the right to security...
as they, conservatives, have pursued a public policy of increased
"security" spending over increased essential necessities like food and water.....

this is self evident by their spending bills of conservative congresses
and presidents.....in the last spending bill, they cut social services
and increased defense spending.... those actions tell us the values
that conservatives hold.....safety/security over freedom or the essential rights of man
as defined by the declaration.......so which values should we hold?

now the second point of understanding political philosophy is
what is the role of the individual within society/government?

it has been said that political philosophy is really about two things
and two things only.... who is in charge and who pays for things....
that is all political philosophy is engaged with... who is in charge,
who makes the decisions and then who pays for those decisions.....

but nowhere in this cynical viewpoint of political philosophy
is any commentary or concern about values and which values
should, we as a society or government hold?
and that includes which values we as individuals should hold in
regards to governmental actions or policy.....

in which lies my second point, which values should we as individuals
should hold and engage with politically?

the oath of the President states: "he" will to the best of his ability,
preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States"

this lead us to an interesting conclusion about this oath...
it doesn't say, to "defend the United States... no, it says the constitution
of the United States.....the constitution is a continuation of the
"declaration of independence" which is a document about values.....

which values shall we uphold......and what is the role of the
individual citizen in our government.......

as government and political policy seems to be about values..
is the same to be said about our economic system?

K: ok, in terms of the economic, what seems to be "our" values?

we have profit... modern capitalism is all about profit...
and both human beings and human values are irrelevant, because they don't contribute
to profit....thus modern capitalism is nihilistic.. anti-human, anti-life....

so, we ask, what is the role of the individual in regards to capitalism?

clearly, the individual has no value in modern economic theory, the
individual has no value in capitalism outside of being a worker or
a consumer.... that is the extent of capitalism interest in the modern worker...
either they work or they consume.... and the creation of profit is the sole
and only concern of capitalism.........this leads us to the understanding that
capitalism has no values.....we cannot engage with capitalism in terms
of values because capitalism has no values..... so what is the role of the
individual in regards to capitalism? the role of the individual within capitalism
is simple to be cannon fodder for the capitalist... to be used and abused
as capitalism see's fit and then discarded when no longer necessary.....

we must engage in capitalism in these terms.... we must remove or
eliminate the only goal of capitalism which is profit..... until we remove
profit from capitalism, we are only a tool to greater profit, a tool which
has little or no value outside of the creation of profit...... we, we humans
are expendable and only have value for our role in the creation of profit....
we have no other role in capitalism...

so, we have "inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......

but our rights are denied by the corporation right to profit... we are dehumanized....
because of this fact that our "inalienable rights" are deemed to be of far less
value then profits.... which has come first for corporations, life or profits?
that answer is quite evident for anyone with eyes.... our liberty is sacrificed to
the alter of profits and the only pursuit of happiness allowed is the pursuit of
material goods and our lives are defined and given value by our creation of wealth..
both personally and collectively...... we, Americans call ourselves the greatest country on
earth due to its GDP and for no other reason.... we define ourselves due to our
economic activity and not for our virtues or goodness or values... but economic
activity.......and this is how we define the pursuit of happiness... economically....
and not by any other standard........

so the political and the economic exists on separate fault lines...
the economic being the far greater danger and far greater
tyranny to our well being.........

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6893
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

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