a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:07 pm

the question becomes, what is the role of the individual
in this modern age? From jesus to Marx, ism's and ideologies
have pointed out the role of the individual within society.....

in the enlightenment for example, the role of the individual was
to become free of the powerful groupthink of religion and authority
and to become free of the habits, prejudices, superstitions of the age....
the enlightenment had a much more of a individualist belief in
the role of the individual in society....the enlightenment was
a liberal understanding of the role of the individual within society.....
the enlightenment was fighting the groupthink of the religious and authority
which is by definition, conservative....and that is how we should understand
conservatives, they engage in groupthink to religion and authority and the past.....

for a conservative, everyone should be a Christian, everyone should bow
down to the authority of the state, everyone should be the same, act the same,
believe in the same.......different is unwanted and discouraged in the conservative
groupthink.....the role of the individual in conservative groupthink is to
obey, not question, fulfill their respective role as given to them by
the authority of the state and church....

and the role of the individual in liberalism is to think for oneself,
free oneself of the habits, myths, prejudices and superstitions
of the past perpetuated by conservative groupthink......
but the downside of the liberal understanding of the individual,
is there is no goal to aim for.... like the liberal idea of progress...
there is no ending point, it just goes on... forever.....

and therein lies a failure of liberalism.... it doesn't have or
doesn't create a goal or ending to reach for........ for liberalism to
make the next step, it needs to find the next step for the individual
and society to make..... it must find a goal or ending to reach....
it must create a road map from start to finish..... but liberalism
by its very nature, says improve yourself... by never asking why or what
is the point of improving oneself?

ok, we have freed ourselves of our habits, myths, prejudices and superstitions.....
now what? and therein lies the problem of liberalism....now what, should
be them mantra of the liberal.... after the ideal individual has created himself,
now what? liberalism never asks that question......

so ask yourself, what is the role of the individual within society?

and therein lies the question of the modern age...... what is your role within society?

yah, you... what is your role within society? can you even tell me?

define yourself in terms of your place in society......can you?

and if you can't, perhaps that is a problem......and if you can't....
we might have the source of modern alienation... the inability to connect
with the society in which we live in....feeling separate from, isolated from
society is the classic sign of alienation and we feel it... we feel it all too well....

so what is your place within society?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:07 pm

so we see, in various ways, the alienation of people
in the U.S.....those who support conspiracies are just one group....
those who say, "Pox on both houses".. referring to the political parties.....
are another group....the fact that 50% of all possible voters stayed home
last election is just another indication of the alienation of people.....

the thought is that why do anything when nothing will change...
you see that alienated thought even around here.....

I would guess that at least 25% of all Americans fit into this alienation....
or perhaps between 80 and 100 million Americans are alienated from
society and the government.....and I am guessing that among those who actually
voted, they voted largely for IQ45.....

which leads us to the point that no society can survive with so many
people feeling alienated from the society or government......

so is there an answer to bring these people back from being alienated?

is there an solution to this problem and I do suggest it is a problem when
a quarter of your population just couldn't care less if the society/government
succeeds or failed because they think it doesn't affect them in any way, shape, or form.....

I think this problem stems from two factors.. political and economic.....

the political is obvious, the feeling that the government serves the wealthy
and powerful instead of the people on main street....the government is bought
and paid for by the wealthy... and we have no voice in America any longer.....

over 300 million Americans are left voiceless because of the selling of America
continues on.....the recent tax law is just another example of this....
a majority of Americans opposed the tax bill and no one in Washington
could have cared less because they no longer serve the American people....

that is one source of the alienation of America and the other source is
the economic.... in two ways, first it is no longer true that we
have a society that is open to those who work hard get rewarded
equally well.... the economic system has been rigged, with the help
of bought and paid for politicians, to reward those who are already wealthy,
and punish those who are middle or lower class...... and the second way is
the mind boggling nihilistic manner in which the workers are treated
by corporations..... workers are used and abused and then discarded
when they have no financial value... money/profit is valued higher
then workers or their lives or their values..... we are a society that
prays to money and profit and anything that is not about money/profit
is crushed, denied, forsaken, abandoned, discarded......and this
is when profits are valued higher then people lives.... this pursuit
of profits that is nihilistic has feed into alienation of American's.....
we don't need to be told we have less value then money/profit..
we see this every single day in the words and actions of corporate
america where causing the deaths of thousands of people is simple
the cost of doing business and written off in a tax break....
no loss for the business if it causes peoples lives to be ruined
or wasted or finished... they have bought off the politicians
to escape responsbility for their actions.... and we continue
the path to the alienation of America..... and what is our role
in the alienation? we are complict when we say silent and
hide behind the lie that it is nothing personal, it is the system,
the blind impersonal system that decides the winners and losers...
but that is a lie....because corporate america has rigged the game,
so they are the only winners in the system.......

and we stay silent and complicit in this shell game.....

the march for our lives yesterday is an example of
people no longer being silent and complicit in the rigged game....

you say, you are wrong Kropotkin... but you are lying, to me and to
yourself... for you know the truth.... in modern America, workers
are simply cannon fodder to be sacrificed in the name of profits.....

and by being silent, you accept this... by doing nothing, you accept this....

the alienation of America has lead us to this point... but what is the solution
to the alienation of America?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:18 pm

so, when last seen, I pose the question, what is the solution to
the alienation of America?

first of all, it requires a recognition of our/your alienation
from America.....

understanding that there is a problem is the first step to
being able to find a solution to the problem......

the problem lies in our values..... we value money/profit over
lives.... we must have a reevaluation of values to correct this
basic modern understanding of today's America......

the next step is to no longer remain silent and complicit
in the continuing nihilism of America.....

as the problem lies in two, separate areas of American life,
we must attack both areas, the political and the economic.....
we must attack until the two, as with all values, actually
are one, but we have failed to see this... the political and the
economic are two sides of the same coin and then someday,
we shall understand that they are the same coin.....
dress up in different clothing, but the same underneath....

the understanding in that they are the same lies in the fact
that both attempt to offer up solutions to the problem of,
how are we to live our lives?

the two, the political and the economic are the same because
they attempt to answer that question from different places....
how are we to conduct our relations with other people via the laws,
and how are we to conduct our relations with people via making a living,
or really put, how can we insure the basic necessities we need to live
like food, water, shelter, clothing, education.... that is what making a living
is about anyway, how do we procure the basic necessities to survive....
and what is the basic necessities? you already know that.....
and now the question becomes how do we achieve that?

a good place to start is with Maslow's hierarchy of values/needs...
in which we see what a person needs to become fully human....
we must begin with our basic necessities like food and water and
shelter.....and then we rise to the safety level and then the love/belonging
level, then the esteem level and then the self-actualization level....

this guideline tells us the goals and we need to create a course to
accomplish those goals.... we have foolishly chosen capitalism as
one means to accomplish the goal given by Maslow.....

and this is the point, we aren't about the values presented or
the means used to accomplish our goals, such as ism's and ideologies....
we are about reaching the goals, which is to survival and then
safety and then love/belonging.... and so on..... that is
what we must be thinking about, not the ism or ideology
we are using to reach these goals, but about reaching these goals
without the use of ism's and ideologies....we must being with the
understanding or acknowledgment of the fact that we are alienated
from society because of the ism's and ideologies in present use...

we must have a reevaluation of values that return human beings
to or before or ahead of money/profits.... lives before money/profits...
this is the basic step that must occur before we can begin the process
of accomplishing Maslow's hierarchy of needs....

the question becomes, how do we feed people, clothe people,
house people, educate people without ideology and ism's?

what does it take to accomplish our goal of reaching the basic goal
of life which is to reach self-actualization.... becoming a human being....
becoming who you are.....we can reach that goal within the confines
of the modern world if, if we put people lives and their values first,
before money/profits....

one method is to have economic equality....no longer will people have
more money then the rest of humanity... the top 400 people in the world
have more money then half of humanity... 3.5 billion people... that issue
alone prevents us from achieving our goal of reaching our self-actualization....
we cannot even reach the basic level of our needs, the physical, the basics of
eating, water, shelter, clothing......if there exists economic inequality of this
immense level.....if some say, well, if we prevent people from having billions,
then what incentive do they have to benefit the world, Ayn Rand.....
but I ask, what incentive do people have to work if they spend their lives
barely able to feed or house or clothes themselves in 40+ years of slaving
for their corporate masters? any question about incentives or desire to
allow people their billions can be applied to the middle or working poor classes
in the world.........

so, we have a goal, we must find a way to make it happen...
how do we allow the most people to reach the basic levels
of survival or of achieving their basic necessities without recourse
to an ism or ideology?

is this even possible?

then after reaching the basic level of necessities, how do we reach
the next levels of safety and of love/belonging and then esteem and
then self-actualization.....we have a destination, now we need a road map,
a guide into reaching our goals, our destination.....and our modern
ism's and ideologies are not only preventing us from reaching our goals
and destination, the current ism's and ideologies are a sure path to failure...
don't believe me... look around you... see the failure in our alienation from
society/government... see the poverty in terms of not only our standard of
living but in our poverty of values and our failure to understand
that we exist beneath Maslow's hierarchy of needs because we
don't even see a problem.....we don't even see how we value money/profits
before people and their lives/values.. that we don't even see this modern
nihilism is an indictment of our failure to see or to understand the problem....

to become who you are is not about becoming in an isolated, personal
standpoint but a collective understanding that we can only find out
who we are collectively, together and in full view of everyone.....
we are a social species and in light of this, we can only become who we
are in light of being social with our fellow citizens.....

it is all the same, you just have to see deep down and understand
that everything is one and the same...

at first, two concepts seem apart, separate and distinct..
then they become two sides of the same coin and
then they become one.....that is life....
it looks separate and distinct and then it becomes
two sides of the same coin and then it becomes one......

so, how do we end or solve the problem of alienation in America?

we remember that we are the same, not distinct and separate
and not two sides of the same coin, but one......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:22 pm

When more are alienated then none, then they are no longer alienated , but become the majority. The big problem with alienation is not the fact of being alienated, but of losing the center of the majority. Disperaty then happens, and as it happens , it is in fact the object of political manueverability.

Perhaps even the purpose of it. The question becomes critical when the control and management is lost.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:22 pm

Meno_ wrote:When more are alienated then none, then they are no longer alienated , but become the majority. The big problem with alienation is not the fact of being alienated, but of losing the center of the majority. Disperaty then happens, and as it happens , it is in fact the object of political manueverability.

Perhaps even the purpose of it. The question becomes critical when the control and management is lost.



K: I would make the argument that control has already been lost...and I do agree
with the idea that the alienated have become the majority... but once again,
the question becomes, how do we end this alienation? is there even a solution
at this point? to "recover" people from alienation, we must give people the knowledge
that they do have a voice, that people do have a say in their lives, unlike today,
where people no longer have a say in or control over their lives... either politically
or economically.....if we are to be "saved" from our alienation, we
must regain control over our lives.... to become who we are, we
must, must get control over our lives... we must have a voice in
our lives....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Meno_ wrote:When more are alienated then none, then they are no longer alienated , but become the majority. The big problem with alienation is not the fact of being alienated, but of losing the center of the majority. Disperaty then happens, and as it happens , it is in fact the object of political manueverability.

Perhaps even the purpose of it. The question becomes critical when the control and management is lost.



K: I would make the argument that control has already been lost...and I do agree
with the idea that the alienated have become the majority... but once again,
the question becomes, how do we end this alienation? is there even a solution
at this point? to "recover" people from alienation, we must give people the knowledge
that they do have a voice, that people do have a say in their lives, unlike today,
where people no longer have a say in or control over their lives... either politically
or economically.....if we are to be "saved" from our alienation, we
must regain control over our lives.... to become who we are, we
must, must get control over our lives... we must have a voice in
our lives....

Kropotkin


That's the million dollar question question, how indeed?

Granted , both parties have been de-centered, how else can the whole population be prepped for a centrist government?
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:00 pm

perhaps by beginning to accept the idea that parties, as we know
them is part of the problem, not part of the solution....
it is not as Raygun said, government is the problem, no, the
problem is the political parties in charge of the government is
the problem....so once again, a reevaluation of values in that
we reevaluate the role of political parties as being part of the
solution.... they are not and in fact, a solution won't be
found until political parties are reduced or even eliminated.....

now in my advocacy for a "new America" with new values,
I haven't advocated for party, I have advocated for a position,
a position of liberalism without party.....and it is possible to
have liberalism without a party being our "polar star" as it were....

now would the elemination of party help the current
nihilism and alienation of the American people?

yes, I believe it would be a start, a start to the return of
people to begin the engagement with their society/government.....

until we get people to engage with, to have a voice in society/government...
we must remove those obstacles that prevent engagement of the people
with society or with the goverenment......and political parties are increasenly
an obstacle to the people have a voice with or having an engagement with
society/goverenment.....no one solution however will be enough
as every problem as multiple reasons, not just one reason for
the problem, but many, many reasons a problem and thus
we must offer up many different solutions to our myriad of problems...

for multi-problems like the ones we have, required multi-solutions
and removing political parties is just one solution to the problems.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:01 pm

in moving about some books, I came across a very important
book I haven't read in a very long time....
"All that is solid melts into air" by Marshall Berman....

I have begun to reread this classic and quickly realize what I had
forgotten about it.... and then I compare it to the though of Hume,
for example, who I am studying right now... I see how sterile
Hume is... the dynamic thoughts of modernity makes the thought
of Hume seem to be standing still...it is true that without Hume,
the modern world is radically different but still, it is remarkable to
see how sterile Hume is compared to thought of the last 200 years....

and I can see/understand how with each generation of thinkers,
from Descartes to Hume to Kant to Kierkegaard to Nietzsche, we
see the complexity and depth of thought increase....with each generation...
and this complexity challenges us and pursues us to ever greater complexity
and challenges....another way to think about it... the great thinkers
of modernity from Kant to today are playing 3 dimension chess while
Hume play 2 dimension chess.... it was revolutionary in its time....
and Descartes? he played one dimensional chess........and today,
today we must now engage with 3 or 4 or 5 dimensional chess...
to become understood in our modern age........

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:54 am

the depth and quality arise in our age due to the experiences
of the last 150 years... from the deaths of millions in WW1 to the
concentration camps of the Holocaust and the deaths of millions more
during WW2...how can we have sterile discussions of how our knowledge
is exists in certainty like Descartes does when in the background places
like Auschwitz existed......it has been 73 years since Auschwitz was closed
and yet it still exists as experience in our collective conscience....
and the deaths of those millions in those wars of extermination still
exists in our collective conscience....and the most philosophers offer
is a deconstruction of text.... if philosophy will not engage in events..
experiences that have become who we are, then philosophy deserves to
fade into nothingness.....we philosophers, we who talk of how is knowledge certain
or how language games gives us texture to philosophical texts.... and we fail
as human beings by not fully engaging in matters of experiences like the
the Holocaust or the violence that is war.....

to be a philosopher is to engage in the matters of life, of experiences that
collectively has made us, us.......and we are social creatures of the collective
and what experiences of the collective impacts us as individuals.....we share
in society collective beliefs and traumas and highs and lows that the society
experiences......it is not enough to call for morality of our human beings when
we haven't faced the trauma of 9/11 and faced it squarely as philosophers
when face with experiences...... we must explain experiences and turn them
into a source of a guide, a map of who we are and where we want to be......
9/11 effect has been to turn the U.S into a fear ridden society.....
and fear has driven every single decision we have made since then...
and fear is a lousy way to make decisions... make a decision from
fear and chances are that decision will be a bad one because
that is what fear does... it drives people into making bad decisions...
Germany got Hitler from being driven by fear...... we are on the same path
with IQ45....we philosophers haven't come to grips with the events of the
last 118 years..... not the science, not the political events, not the social events,
....... we talk of the deconstruction of the text as if that has something to do with
life... it doesn't...... it is sterile and pointless... we talk of the language games
and what does that has to do with our lives as we have experienced it in the last
118 years or since 1900.....nothing.....we haven't come to grips about the deaths
in either World War and we haven't come to grips with the rise of the Nazi's and we
haven't come to grips with the Holocaust and its aftermath....we have fled
from our responsibilities and we have failed.....we talk about metaphysics
and we ignore the reality of experience......our collective experience of
the World Wars and of the violent deaths of Vietnam and other such experiences
that lay upon the heart of the land.....we cannot move on past these trauma's
until we come to grips with them..... we are survivors of trauma and how does
any survivor learn to cope with their trauma? they talk about it, they discuss it...
they cry and they experience it in the ways necessary to overcome the trauma...
we have post traumatic syndrome and we don't even know it......and until we come
face to face with the trauma, we cannot overcome it.....we still exist
with 9/11 and until we come to grips with it, it will continue to haunt us....

as we continue to exists with the World Wars and the Holocaust because we
haven't come to grips with it.... we have failed and we will continue to fail
until we overcome our trauma....but one may say, that is psychology, not
philosophy.... haven't you learned yet.... there is no separation between things....
everything is connected...and once we understand that we are our experiences
and we are our events and we are our knowledge......we are one with those
experiences that we have had, both past, present... and we will become
those future events/experiences....and they will be added to who we are....

we are our experiences both individually and collectively..... that is who we are....

experiences make us who we are..... to exist, to experience is to understand.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:35 pm

ok, let us do a little historical study.....

I am at this very moment listening to Mozart... now to get his music played
he had to bring his music to someone else to get it played.....
and the same exists for artist in other fields....

let us say, you have something of importance to say.....
you must bring it to someone for them to publish it or
find a means to hold a concert or some other medium....

and this is important... the act of medium.... be it a publisher
or a concert hall or the radio or movies.... you cannot just create
something and then play it.... it needs someone else to
either create the medium for which you can say your something......

the act of creation not only needs an medium in which the material is
distributed, but the act of saying something needs a medium like
playing music or writing a play or writing a book....

so you have two, two different aspects of medium....one is the actual
act of creation and the other is the distribution of that act of creation.....
the artist has little or no control over the distribution of the material....

I wrote a book and I couldn't find anyone to publish it... I couldn't find
a agent who would act as a facilitator to publish the book.... I was unable
to find a medium to publish the book....I finally published on a website....
I found a medium in which to say my thing... but I couldn't write it and then
find some way to distribute it... I needed a middle man to make that work.....

let us say, you make bread and you find out the same process applies to you...
you need to get your bread into a supermarket.. which is a middleman between
the creator and the consuming public....now niche creations can often go and
find a means to take their work to the public directly... either online or direct sales
or in farmers markets for example......

so Mozart needed a middleman in which to publish his works, or
another middleman in which to put his music into the music halls.....

what if the musician build his own music hall?
then the musician would become businessman...
in which he became the middleman.... trying to get works to
play in his music hall... and then as a middleman, content becomes
important.... think of TV... think of all those hours that must be filled...
or a website where you must fill the site with something.... quality no
longer becomes the operative objective, no, quantity becomes the problem...
having enough material to fill up 24/7/365 worth of space/medium.....
for a website is a medium, as it is a middleman between the artist/creators
and the public..... so here we know understand why so much content is crap.....

turn on your TV...if you are like me, you have 500 channels.. and nothing to watch
because those 500 channels have quantity instead of quality....

could Mozart exists today? yes, but he has the same problem today he had back
then... finding a middleman that will distribute his material/creation to the public....
to make money which is the goal.... one must somehow be able to distribute your
work to the public.... but therein lies the problem......... should the goal be to make
money....shouldn't the goal be the act of creation... of finding a personal medium be it
writing or painting or sculpturing and creating... and creating should be about quality,
not quantity.......it is common, very common for the biggest seller of the day, be it
Mozart's day or be it our day, that the biggest seller of material, say, composer for example,
was not the best composer at the time.... Mozart was clearly the greatest composer of
his time, but was he the biggest seller/draw of the music industry at the time...no......
it is rare indeed that the most creative/greatest creator of material at the time..
be it music or writing or the creation of art is also the biggest seller of the time....
the Beatles were the greatest creators of rock music of their time AND they
were the best sellers of their time... but that is rare.....let us look at creators
in their time..... Van Gough... he sold one painting in his lifetime.... Nietzsche
sold very few books while alive....Hume first book, the one we know him by,
was certainly not a very big seller.... the creators who created the art they
are famous for quite often had a hard finding a middleman to distribute their work....
and even if they found a middleman, the work in question quite often
sold badly or not at all....this leads us to asking if, if the artist should
write their works with the immediate public in mind to make money or
should they create the works they want and let the consequence be dammed....

this entire question is part of the individual's role within society...
the artist... what are their role within society? what part or what role do they
play in society? and how different is their role from my role? or your role within
society? we are both producers... and this is important to note... the artist is a
producer.. he creates something he hopes to sell to make money so he can afford to
produce more......like me, his production can be found in a corporate setting......
I sold my work, my production to a big corporation for 22 bucks an hour and
I spend my days scanning and weighing items for sale.... and how is this
different then Mozart trying to sell his work? Mozart is the creator, I work
for the middleman, selling material to the public......we lie at different
points of the distribution circuit.....now I have railed against the pursuit of
profits/money... let us apply it here... in the supermarket, we buy a product
from someone, the creator, and then we try to sell it for more then we bought it...
that creation of profit fuels the next round of buying things from creators....
so, let us say, I buy Mozart's work... as a middleman, I now am tying to get
others to buy it from me, at a greater price then I paid for it, to make a profit,
so I can go out and buy another round of things from other creators like Mozart
and sell those thing and the process goes on and on and on.... as long as their
are creators like Mozart, I can continue to buy his stuff and as long as there is
the public that will buy his stuff, I can continue this ongoing pattern of being
the middleman buying stuff from the creator, be it Mozart or be it bread....
and selling it to the public......at no point here does quality enter the
picture... selling on a mass market scale isn't about quality but about
quantity.... 500 channels on TV.....how do you fill those hours?

so the modern world is really just a world filled with middlemen who
buy things from the creators be it Mozart or be it bread and then the
middlemen sell that merchandise to the public for more money
the middleman paid for it.....and the process continues on as long
as there is creators and there is the public who can buy that stuff......

the creators be it Mozart or bread must find a middleman to sell their
products to the public.... otherwise someone like Mozart would spend their
entire time engaged in the selling of the material and have no time for the act
of creation of that material.....

so in a real sense, the act of the creation of the economic systems, be it
capitalism or communism is about the distribution of material goods between
the creators and the public....the act of the economic system is really an
act of the creation of the middlemen who are necessary to stand between
the creators and the public....you want to understand capitalism,
really understand capitalism, understand the role of the middleman in
capitalism.......and that role of the middleman is another understanding
of the role between the individual and society......

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:23 pm

capitalism could be, rightly, called the creation of the middleman state....

food for thought....

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:24 pm

let us look at another idea that is no longer talked
about but drove action and conversation for
over a century.... that idea of progress.....

this idea of progress is no longer talked about...
how MAN is progressing from one point, ancient or
medieval to the modern viewpoint....progress is no longer
a goal to be achieved... in light of the 20th century and
the combination of science and technology, which by itself is neutral,
and that science and technology was used for "evil" once again,
we see the impact/influence of the two World Wars and the depression
and the Holocaust and the cold war and 9/11.....
who talks of or about progress today?

and yet, this idea of progress drove actions and conversation
for over 150 years, from the start of the enlightenment to
the Second World War....you may call the dropping of the Atomic
bomb as the end of the age of progress.....

so what does the modern age think of progress?
it doesn't.... our modern age is about the three prong
dance of the creators, the middleman and the public....
do you see where progress can fit into such a trio?

what can progress mean in this age of weapons of mass destruction?

the doomsday clock stands at 2 minutes before midnight.....
progress can only mean we turn the clock back, literally.....

if science and technology created this impasse, but recall that
science AND technology is neutral, that science and technology
created this impasse, what can free us from this impasse that
has lead to the doomsday clock being 2 minutes from midnight?

a rewriting of, a new evaluation of what progress actually means....

progress doesn't have to be, in fact, it shouldn't be about science or
technology...it needs to be about the progress we make in
non-material mastery of who we are and who we can become......

progress needs to be redefined as a new understanding
of our inner nature...... progress is no longer about the external
world but the internal world... does that mean the spiritual world?

no, it has been often said, that MAN has a external, material nature
and an internal, spiritual nature....our slavish devotion to material
goods is in defiance to the inner, spiritual world.... this is not true....

the devotion to the spiritual world is still devotion to something
outside of ourselves, to an external god or nature or to something
"higher" then we are....so what does progress have to do with this
"spiritual" world? Nothing as far as I can tell.....
because the goal, the progress is preparing for one's death and the
external passage into heaven, still outside of us......progress is not
about some external matter that lies outside of us.....

this new understanding is no different then Socrates bringing
philosophy back to earth... from studying the heavens to matters
about the soul and who we are and knowing thyself.....

and what does this have to do with the modern age?

what is progress in the modern age? New and improved toothpaste
and a shiny car seems to be the entire goal of progress in our modern age....

but what about us? can you or will you understand progress as the
rise or the gaining of wisdom within yourself?

progress needn't be about the external world... it can be the progress
gained in discovery in who we are and what is our role within society....
how are we to act and how do we know what is the right thing to do?

are these things "MORAL"... I don't believe so... they are essential
actions of, part of the nature of who we are.... human nature is
understanding who we are and what is our goal or how do we measure
progress in the human soul.....how do we become who we are.....

ask yourself, if progress is not about our material progress, then
what is it really about?

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:06 pm

let us think about this word, progress...

what did progress mean to the ancient Greeks or Romans?

It didn't mean anything, they didn't have such a word...
and because their thought was not linear, not in a straight line,
but circular, that time and events and experiences occurred
again and again and again.. repeated over time....
there was no such thing as progress...

let us think about the medieval man and for the next thousand years...
from say, 400 AD to roughly, 1400 AD, there was certainly no thought to or
understanding of progress... things remained the same for centuries.....
for the vast majority of people... what little growth in technology, such
as in agriculture added people, but it was so slow as not to be a factor
in people's lives....

our modern idea of progress began in the enlightenment... roughly around
1700 to 1750... and reached its culmination during the 19th century...
and was badly damaged from the events/experiences of the 20th century...

most of what we call progress, has occurred in the last 200 years...
from the new technology of the railroad to the newest smart phone....

a man born in the 1st century AD could still have identified with
a man born in 1750 because the mode of travel and the technology
and how they lived their lives was fairly similar...but a man born in
in 1749, Say, Goethe, would be hard pressed to identify with modern
man and all our science and technology.... for over 2000 years,
progress as such, didn't occur and that in the last 250 years, more
advances in "progress" occurred then in the prior 2000 years....

have we progressed "more" then ancient man? or have we progressed
more then the medieval man? or even the man of the enlightenment?

perhaps, but once again it depends on how you define "progress".....

are we wiser or smarter or have more knowledge then the previous
ages? more knowledge perhaps, but being wise has nothing to do
with knowledge, facts like the earth is 93 million miles from the sun.....
there is no wisdom in that fact........

so how are we to live or what is our purpose or how do we
become who we are or how do we better know ourselves?
how are we to act and upon what basis are we to know how we are
to act?

questions that progress or science or technology cannot answer...

is modernity a solution to these questions of how we are to live?
and is modernity a solution to the question of how we are to act
and upon what basis are we to know how we are to act?

I will give to the age before our "modern" age one bonus point...
that is they had rules about how they are to act and upon what
basis how they knew how to act.... but the problem becomes
their solutions are not our solutions.....the rules, morals, laws
must change with the changing environment and changing
science and technology........ the idea of progress changed
because our environment, our very world changed and the idea
of progress must change to match the ever changing world.....

and this is why the idea of progress is what is was for the
ancient Greeks and different for the enlightenment and different
for us.... times change and we must change our idea's and ism's and
ideologies with the changing times......

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:56 pm

as I laid down for a nap, as is my habit before work....

I was thinking about this idea of progress....
one argument against progress is this....
this idea of progress makes us or puts us outside
of nature.... we become outside of or exempt from or
apart from nature and this is simply not true....

we are part of, as much as plants and trees and forest,
part of nature... we exist within and part of nature....

we cannot isolate who we are from the enviroment that
created us.....and this idea of progess isolates us from
nature......progress is not an idea that put us into context with
nature, as one with nature, but outside of nature....

progress from our standpoint would be not to plant
hundreds of or thousands of or even millions of plants,
tree's, grassland, but planting billions of acres of plants,
tree's, grassland.... we must reclaim our vast deserts into
green lands of tree's and plants and grass and rivers and
waterfalls..... we must return to nature to become who we are..
for we are of nature and that nature is tree's and plants and grass....
from whence we came...... we must understand progress in terms
of a different standard.... as an understanding of where we stand in
regards to and as part of nature.... just as we need to understand our
role in regards to society, we must understand our role in nature...
not nature as we human beings deem it to be, but as nature really is.....
not as a park like Disneyland but as a park that is wild and free to be...
more like Yosemite park without the massively overbuilt valley.....

in these terms, progress becomes something entirely different....

it is not longer about human beings, but about the nature that
we came from and are a part of...... nature or the environment
becomes the source of progress, not man......
how do we return nature to the prominence that it needs to be...
by sacrificing our human needs for the needs of the planet..
and plant the shit out of our planet.... we need to and we must
plant billions of tree's and billions of plants and billions of acres
of grassland.......... recall that tree's and plants use carbon dioxide and
so we reduce the creation of human carbon dioxide by increasing
the element that uses carbon dioxide and creates oxygen.....

this is the new understanding of progress..... as an equation....
to match one side of the equation with an aspect that
matches the other side.... if we increase something, we must
create an equation that subtracts something... that is the new
vision of progress... an equation.....which matches our actions
with actions that equalize our actions....

progress is to make things equal.... and that equal is also another
vision of justice......so we have three things being the same,
progress, equality and justice........

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:51 pm

I was just daydreaming a bit ago and let myself go....

what if I were to become famous... I would go on TV and be
interviewed... but and this is the important part... I hate wearing suits....
I really, really, really hate wearing ties....
but to go on TV, one must wear a suit... but I thought why?

why is it important to wear a suit? especially on TV....

one might claim it is decorum, another might claim that it is a sign
of respect...another might claim that it is proper etiquette...another
might claim it is distracting not to wear a suit on TV.......one might claim
that in the important times in life, one must wear a suit of distinction to
be taken seriously.... as for me, I just want to be comfortable....blue jeans,
t-shirt, tennis shoes and I'm good to go....at present, I wear a polo shirt at
work, so I suppose I could wear a polo with my jeans... but why wear anything
fancier? does society's right to decorum, trump my right to comfort?

and here we reach from another side, the debate between the individual
and society......

now I can imagine TV execs demanding that I wear a suit or not be on TV....
I would choose not to be on TV personally, but this little debate lays out
part of the question of what it means to exist within our current society.....

the role of the individual within society, does that mean to dress as society
demands? be the role that society demands? if you want to be President,
you must wear a suit all the time... the role requires it.. to be "presidental"
but what does that really mean? as far as I can tell, it means to match the
expectations of the voting public... expectations.... and that is a good word here....

people have expectations of what certain roles should look like....
try to imagine a.... doctor, who went into work wearing a t-shirt and blue
jeans and tennis shoes? that the doctor saw you in those clothes.....
what would it tell or suggest to you? a doctor is suppose to wear a white,
clean coat.... that is what is expected....otherwise doctors wear scrubs....
again, it is expectations.... so roles have certain expectations like dress
and probably behavior expectations....here I am not referring to the
the fact that clothes worn by such professionals might get dirty with
bodily objects and needs to be able to be tossed easily... no, I am not
talking about that part... I am talking about the expectations we
have for certain roles.....and part of that expectations is certainly dress
and manner for that role.....are these expectations driven by the institution
like the hospital to create a "professional" appearance... or are the expectations
driven by the patients who need/want certain roles to have defined looks....

is it the institution psychology that drive the expectation game or does the
patient psychology that drives it? I am sure studies have been done on this
which leads us to another question, do we know without an study being done?
can we know or understand without somebody somewhere doing a study?

questions leading to more questions....

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:26 pm

Part of the trouble in playing the game game is , that the outer, dressed man, and the inner, habe to have some connective parcels to bring the two together.

This is the structurally manifested rule number one
Am I over dressed, under dressed for the occasion? And why is it so important?

Lets assume some one is famous, or on the verge of be coming one, and lets further suppose that same one sitting next to some late night host decked out in his best apparel.

Them some person shows up dressed in modern rags in stark contrast to the host and others. I would think a person who is already famous is presumed to know the rules of attire , and is naaong that presumption , knows them, and is licenced to be as extravagant and even outlandish as to appearance.

Been there and done that along the way through the myriad channels of upward climbing. However, on the flip side , if he is trying to negom the long and arduous climb and thinks may be wearing ill fitting or pit of style clothes in order to garner attention and use it to promote himself, well them its a different game , and he might think twice about showing up.

It will not work , because instead of elevating into a reasonably thought out appearance , it will dig into the instinctive feeling on the host's part that it is meant to depreciate the show.

Bit instant fame bypasses this and the super famous neuvo rich can do whatever , out of superbly poised instinct, do dress however, case at hand: Lady Gaga.

She is a real lady, in parity with any English Duchess.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:54 pm

and what of so called, Rock chic, which for men is
a sports coat over a t-shirt with blue jeans and whatever type of shoes
the wearer wears...... does this fit expectations of how a rock star dresses?

and what of Lady Gaga.... who btw, I wouldn't know if she introduced herself to me.....
this brings us to another question... the expectations of men clothes versus
the expectation of women's clothes..... men wear limited style clothing, both
in color and in type of clothing.... women wear a far greater, far different
clothing types.... a women could and have worn both dresses and suits with or without
ties and sports coats, not in a man's style but in a women's style... men have a limited
amount of clothes they can wear socially... why? my wife tells me all the time how to
dress and what "works" and what doesn't... both in regards to color and in regards to fabric...
whereas I don't know AND I really, really don't care... but what does this say about
expectations of people and gender in regards to, say clothing for example......

and we return to this question of expectations in regards to what is "appropriate"
style and fashion for people and what is "appropriate" for people in regards to sex,
career, lifestyle, behavior, language.... and why? why is it "appropriate" for some
people to do something and not others? this is the expectations of roles we have
in society...if you have a certain "role" in society you cannot do something or you
are the only one who can do something... depending on the role you have.....

I am old.. and I am expected to engage in actions and behavior that the old
engage in.... the type of actions and behavior that I engaged in as a youth, 40
years ago, is not "appropriate" for someone my age.... why?
now granted I certainly cannot go out late at night and drink like I did..
my bedtime is 9:00 and I really can't stay up past that anymore.... so my
physical limitations of being old play a role in the actions and behavior I
can engage in...... it is assumed that I have too much dignity and smarts to
engage in youthful behavior because I am old...... I have too much sense....
expectations once again....... we all have expectations that weigh us down
in some fashion...what it means to be a man... what it means to be a women...
what it means to be old.... what it means to be professional....what is means
to be a child...... what it means to be a part of society......what it means to
to be alive.......we have expectations for all aspects of our lives......
is this a good thing or a bad thing? personally, I don't know.....
do I have expectations for other people... of course, for I am only human....
and that is the point....

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:39 pm

Peter ,on the road again o shall return to this interesting topic again as soon as I can take a.deep breath and sit down
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:40 pm

no rush....

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:11 pm

Peter, upon re reading I realised that I should save You the trouble is trying to figure out my meaning.

Therefore a re affirmation of earlier relevance is needed here. I had a very hectic day and my script looked it.

So, with that said, what I meant was this:

The theme of the essay revolves around the question of why can't a person dress the way he wants to, when invited to be on a show.

Most are invited.to shows of caliber, other then contestants game shows , which are predictably more lax, requireing certain dress codes , whereof they propose to begin the journey to fame.

They begin to know that outlandish and out of place attire will not be beneficial to their role of upward climbing, and the likelihood of such a person trying to present the best.picture of themselves as possible, may choose not to upstage the members of the show. It simply makes little sense for an upward bound regular guy to dress out of kilter, because in most shows, execs can immediately overcome the thought that the person's demeanor , as basis for nudging their capacity. , whatthey really are interested in, is the substance of their talent or whatever they are on the show in the first place.

They are experts, that is why they are good at what they know best: : Show Business.

The excuses of age, disability, special circumstance do to a degree excuse them for their appearance, , but then what comes out is a focus on how and what those excuses mean in real terms.

So sure , one can dress for any part, which , at first can be managed by dress varience, but I can't help to think it would work on an average person to their advantage to not adhere to some norm in attire.
The execs may be thinking that the guy is hiding some deficiency, which they are trying to cover over zealously.

Already famous people, can usually dress pretty much the way they want to, even dress up as Micky Mouse , or goofy,
Its time they cash in , on earned credit of allowance ,resulting in opinions of a sort of poetic licence of kinkiness.

That is the whole nine yards of what I meant to convey and I regret being off target.

Finally. at least goes to reason, that gestures determine somewhat the intentional use of a character role. But in the beginning it is unlikely that simply a wearing a costume will reveal the difference in whether the sought after role was intentionally developed or. there was no substational workup , that results merely in wearing clothes rather then a costume which has some intentional role in development .(of the character)

In again other words, yes, all the world is a stage and everybody acts. but professionals usually have a pretty good idea of where their role belongs between the average man, and the man who becomes famous for other reasons then to become famous for fame's sake.

And the tie in here is that itshould become obvious to anyone with concerns with dress, that in show biz, they can tell if one dressed for a part, or merely put on a costume, these are concerns anyone should have in relation to acquire achievement-fame.
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:47 am

I am going to come back to meno at some point tomorrow...as
I try to understand this point....

the symbol of our age...... it is Disneyland.....
a pretend, safe, corporate place where "dreams" are
sold to people....go to Disneyland and every single aspect is
finely tuned to be non-threating and soft and warm and fuzzy....

it is made that way in return for cold hard cash...... every aspect
is false, created, carefully planned to the very grass grown on the lawn
to the flowers of the train station...to the impossible clean road
that people walk on...in Disneyland there is no event, no experience that
is not preplanned and organized to the smallest detail....every aspect of Disneyland
is choreograph to the millisecond....and this experience of Disneyland lies at
the heart of what wealthy and powerful want to create..... Disneyland is the
existential experience of what they want to turn America into....

if you want to see or understand the future, visit Disneyland and
know the goal of the upper class is to turn America into a safe,
sterile, homogenized version of Disneyland........from the fake experiences
to the massive price gouging.... Disneyland holds our future as being the
idealize version of the tomorrow we face....travel our cities and
know if they could, they would turn those cities into Disneyland.....
with fake experiences and fake thrills and phony promises of returning to
yesterday... a clean and sanitized version of yesterday that has no basis in fact....

Disneyland.... a fake yesterday, a fake today and a fake tomorrow...
perfect for corporate America....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:07 pm

here I try to tie up several different points into one
pretty little ball...

I am trying to understand our age in general... an overall
look at who we are and what is happening....

and I am reminded of the old Zen saying....
before Zen, the mountains are level and the sea is calm and
the river flows calmly.....

during Zen, the mountains jump and the sea rages and the river
flows over its bank....

after Zen, the mountain is level and the sea is calm and
the river flows calmly.....

we are at the point of during Zen... when everything is toss into the air
and everything is muddled and nothing makes sense.....

but why? Why should things be so, so up in the air.. everything is
so unsettled...so why?

I was watching some show on Scifi called Krypton... about the backstory
of Superman and his ancestors, grandfather and the like and then
the fact that this lead character is Superman's grandfather....Seg....

and the basic premise about Superman's home world is twofold,
first, that they believe that they are the only beings in the universe
and that belief is religious based and the second theme is that Krypton
is a class base society...it has caste, a warrior caste for example
and a science caste.... by no means is this a new idea, but it did
click some idea's in that a caste base system is on where you know,
absolutely know your place and role within society....

this is an idea lost in our "modern" society....Europe did have
a caste system in place for a thousand years.... you knew your role...
the caste system could be thought of as a hierarchy based society....
defined roles played by every caste and person within that caste....

even today, England still has that with the Hierarchy top being
the Queen of England and every step below being rigidly decided...
Prince Charles and William and Kate and Harry all having their fixed
roles within that Hierarchy and English society flows down from that
fixed hierarchy....heaven help the person who tries to deviate from their
roles...

we too a lessor degree have a hierarchy.. money and fame
and some official position like being the President gives America
a semblance of a hierarchy....but what of us? what of the over 320 million
of us who don't have money or fame or an official position.... what is to be our role
in the society..... and thus we have "during Zen" because we are not sure anymore
of who we are and what is our role.... and everything points to this.....
for example, as discussed above, dress.... the way we dress tells everyone
our role and what we think our role is....dress is one means to create
an hierarchy within society....status as in wealth is another means to
create an hierarchy within society....Keeping up with the Jones in not just
about material consumption but about our roles and our place within the
hierarchy....

the rise of megachurches is just another step in our confusion
about our role within society.....the rise of megachurches is another
attempt to create an hierarchy within society... the medieval
attempt, of the closer to god one is, the higher up the hierarchy one is....
these attempts to create hierarchies within America are not isolated
attempts, but they are not coordinated attempts but given the situation
of our collective confusion as to who we are and what are we to do,
the attempts to create hierarchies are not surprising....

everything is confused, mixed up, nothing has solidity or is grounded...
the mountains are jumping, the sea is raging and the river has jumped
its bank.......and all our attempts to settle the mountains, the sea and
the river, so far has failed...... as it should fail..... because we
are acting from instincts like fear and anger and hate in attempting to
overcome the unsettle world..... you cannot overcome with hate or fear
or anger....those base emotions only bring about more hate and anger and
fear... and we see this every day in the news.... attempts to create
an hierarchy based on fear and anger and hate will fail... because
you can't have an hierarchy based on the lower, base emotions....
it doesn't work.... Look at Nazi Germany..... it failed....
and the Soviet Union, it too failed... and then look at the creation
of America... another attempt to settle the world and have knowledge
of who we are and what we are supposed to do...

"in order to form a more perfect union"......

"we hold these truths to be self-evident,
that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain
inalienable rights, that among these are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

this language suggests that it is another attempt to understand our role in society
and what we are to do...

our age is one where we no longer understand what our roles are and what
we are suppose to do.. who are we, when we don't know or fail to understand
what our roles are to be.... in society and within us.....this pursuit of money/profit
has hidden from us... our real meaning and role within life and society.....
we, we human beings, are so much more then lowly consumers and producers
of matter... but that role, the only role we are expected to play, fails to
to understand, explain, become all the possibilities that exist within
the human being.... we have possibilities and potentials and they are
being wasted in some silly pursuit of wealth, of money and profits......

we, at some level, seem to understand this... and we are in the midst
of the mountains jumping and the seas raging and the river overflowing its bank....

all the themes of this thread come together here..... who are we and what
are our possibilities? we cannot know if we only allow human possibilities
to be invested in the pursuit of money/profit.......we cannot allow
hierarchies to limit us in our possibilities.... we are more then our
role of consumer and producer and we are more then some false
attempt to create hierarchies..... we are our possibilities...
and what are they? we shall not know until we
begin to challenge conventional notions of the form of our roles...
we cannot know until we challenge who we are and what are our
possibilities and just being a consumer/producer won't allow us
the chance to discover who we are and what we are to do......

it is not enough to have the courage of your convictions,
you must have the courage for an attack upon your convictions......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:47 pm

thinking about philosophy (and science for that matter)
and thinking that philosophy done right should not be safe or
comfortable or PC.... philosophy done right should mean
that the mountains are shaking and the seas are raging
and the rivers have gone over their bank....

philosophy is not safe or PC... it is dangerous
and philosophy should rock your world.. if done right.....

to think that philosophers like Socrates, Spinoza,
Hume and Nietzsche is safe and comfortable is
doing a disservice to those philosophers....

to understand, to truly understand those philosophers
bring one to the edge of the abyss....

that is the problem with university philosophy teaching....
it makes dangerous philosophers like Spinoza and Nietzsche
seem like part of the status quo and as safe as a trip to
Disneyland... in fact, that is what the university teaching
wants you to think, that those philosophers are so safe
and unthreatening as to be like a reading version of Disneyland...
nothing dangerous, nothing out of hand, mild and socially acceptable
teaching of philosophy is all that is acceptable... universities
try to turn radical thought into Disneyland for the mind...
safe at every turn and nothing to worry about.....

but that isn't philosophy.... reading and understanding
philosophy is the "during Zen" time... all is unsettled...
and it should be....it should be about the mountains becoming
loose and the sea's raging.....and that is philosophy done right.....

but in America we want everything and I mean everything to be
as safe and sound as Disneyland.... nothing risky or dangerous...
the greatest danger in Disneyland is tripping over the curb.....
and if they could figure out how to remove that, they would....
and so would America... making those dangerous thinkers
as safe as Disneyland for the mind...... too bad....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6796
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:57 pm

as there is no possibility of being original, I am once again
not original... my thoughts have been geared toward a society
that is ill and that the individual within that society is ill also....

so, in mucking about the web AND I came across William James and
his concept of "soul sickness"... and once again, I am just following someone's
else road...

we are, the modern world, soul sick and we don't even know it....

most of America claim to be Christian but look at what they support
and it is clear they are not Christians....Jesus message was about love
and the way to heaven which means following his message.....
the rich will have an easier time passing through an eye of a needle
then reaching heaven... that kind of thing.... and practicing
the laws of god.. thou shall not....and look at what the soul sick
Christians support... a lying, thieving, adulterer president.......
and the soul sick Christian barely said a peep about the use of torture
in obtaining information to "protect" America.....

and that is being soul sick when you no longer engage in values
that your profess..... to be Christian is to value such things
as love and charity and hope before actions as in torture
and lying and stealing and adultery.......

that is the soul sick America at work......we claim to support
such principles as justice, equality, honesty, love and yet,
and yet, we actually give approval to such actions as violence and hate
and anger and bigotry....it is the Christians that is driving
such actions as violence and hate and bigotry.....

this is not a anti-Cristian diatribe.... not at all, this is using them
as an example of the soul sickness that has griped America....

where the words spoken and the actions taken are diametrically
opposed.... that has lead to our current soul sickness....

I am giving a diagnoses of America.....
and the Christian is an excellent choice to uncover this soul sickness.....

we are the sick man who doesn't even know his is sick......

look, look around you...... what do you see?

you see human beings whose souls are crushed by society
and the demands of capitalism.....

you see American trying to escape their soul sickness with opioids
and other such drugs...what do opioids do? they quiet the soul to
prevent thinking or feeling.... that is the crisis of our day... not
the opioids epidemic but why do we have an opioids crisis....
it is because of what the drugs do that is important...
you can escape even for an hour from your soul sickness

booze and drugs fill the void that is inside of us....
a void cause by the modern world and its
dehumanization of us all......

the real epidemic of our day which is not
drugs or booze but escaping our soul sickness....

because of the nihilistic assault on the bodies and souls
of us all, we try to escape into drugs and booze but also
such fantasies as in video games and movies and music
and the relentless voyeurism into the lives of celebrities

all of which comes from the sickness of our souls....

even at the lowest level of their being, people are beginning
to understand the futility and despair of their lives.....

for such soul crushing ism's and ideologies as capitalism
and Catholicism, in fact, in any ism or ideology today crushes
the soul.......Americanism is one of the worst soul crushing
phenomenon of our day.... for Americanism offers us a phony
bill of goods..... believe in the American dream and you shall be
rewarded..... it is no different then the false promise of
religion.........believe and ye shall be rewarded.....

this soul sickness has been an undercurrent in modern life since the beginning
of the industrial revolution..... it is evident in Goethe's Faust and in the writings
of Marx and Kierkegaard and Nietzsche......... it is so entwined in 20th century writing,
that of the modern era, that it isn't even commented upon.... the soul sickness of
the modern era is so prevalent that it is part of the words, sentences and language
of the 20th century writers......

how do we escape this soul sickness that permeates every part of society,
and us, as to become part of our very essence......

this is the modern question.... how do we escape our modern age and its
ever present soul sickness?

we cannot escape by drugs or booze or fantasy actions like video games....

those passive measures only help fuel this fog of soul sickness that surrounds
all of us......

passivity is not an answer to our soul sickness....

only action can offer us deliverance from our current crisis......

it is not the time for withdrawal into ourselves, that help
lead us into the medieval ages..... the only path out is action...
and what action is right? find a cause..... global warming,
gun control, global population growth, income inequality,
pollution and fight.... fight for that cause.... that is the solution
to our current, modern, crisis......it doesn't even matter what
cause you pick.... pick a cause.... and become that cause.....
that is how you fight soul sickness.... you engage in some cause
that you believe in....hold fast to that cause no matter what the
obstacles... for therein lies your salvation.... the cause......
not god, not Americanism, not some ism or ideology..
but a cause....not some pie in the sky ism or ideology...
but some real, tangible, touchable cause that can change
lives in some positive fashion.... and become that cause....

you want to be free? find a cause......and create change...
and the change you will create will be in you and that is the
real effect of becoming a cause... you become the change.....

you find the real you in the landscape of creating change
for others.....search for some answers in creating change
for others and the answer you find is you.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6796
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:39 pm

as I struggle with understanding.....

I am struggling with who we are and how did we get here...
not necessarily with where do we go from here as I usually struggle with...

I am trying to understand modernity.... what does it mean to be a "modern"
man in a "modern" world...... and I do so by comparison with an earlier
age, the enlightenment........what does it mean to be modern?

and I believe it means this......... you can't go home again.....

this is the entire point of modernism.....you can't go home again....

but don't mistake home as being the place of residence, either past or present....
no, home here means something far greater.....home means something..
it is not just a home, but it stands for something....home means safety and security
and comfort and for some of us, home means love.....to share a home with the ones
we love......wife and daughter in my case, but every case is different.....

but to be a modern man means, you can't go home again....WTF does that mean?

we exist within other homes and we have existed in prior homes....
now don't mistake home here to be a fixed, material place....

home is also where we hold our ism's and ideologies and habits,
myths, prejudices and superstitions...... because those habits and
myths and prejudices and superstitions also mean safety and security
and comfort.......home is not just a physical place, but it is a mental
construct with idea's and ism's and myths that we have either once believed
in or do currently believe in......

and what does Modernity have to do with home?

my past is full of homes... my childhood home in Illinois.... long gone,
decades ago..... the house still exists, but it isn't my home anymore....

I can't return there anymore....the home I once knew, of family and of
habits and of ism's and a dog named Troubles....all gone.....for me anyway...
and that is modernism.... the past no longer exists......one of the sad
parts of education nowadays is that they don't teach history anymore.....
modernity has no interest or understanding in history.....
we live in the midst of long gone homes and of long gone
ism's and ideologies and prejudices and superstitions.....
you can't go home again to ism's that no longer exists....

to be modern is to exist without the ism's and ideologies and habits
that nourished human beings for centuries...... the ghost of ism's
still exist today... of ideologies like Catholicism and religions like
capitalism and superstitions like god...... they still exists.....
but as ghosts in the modern age....

you can't go home again.... once you have lost the faith and devotion
that ism's and ideologies must have, you cannot rekindle it again by
the false devotion you see in the false idols of our times.......

the essence of our times is you can't return to the ism's and ideologies
that created safety and security and comfort that existed in our
homes of yesterday........we have to rewrite what it means to
be safe and secure and be comfortable in the new homes of
ism's and ideologies that are struggling to be created today.....

to be modern means to be without past.......the past of ism's and ideologies
that feed our forefathers.....you can't go home again.... speaks the modern man....

a home that no longer exists.....no matter how hard we try to recreate
the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions of yesterday.....

what myths or habits or ism's or ideology is possible in the
shadows of Auschwitz or Hiroshima or the two World Wars?

you can't go home again... to the time before Auschwitz or Hiroshima
or the World Wars.....to the beliefs and myths and ism's that fueled
those "modern" events....

I am a modern man, who in good conscience, cannot accept ancient
fables and myths and habits like religion or god or ism's like
Americanism.........

I cannot go home again......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6796
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

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