a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:51 pm

so what does Pascal, Newton, Descartes, Plato, Marx, Aristotle,
Augustine, Einstein and the bible have in common?

ummmm, they do have something in common...

they, each of them have created a map... a map of reality....
some maps are scientific in nature and some are theological and
some are philosophical in nature... each map has a different starting point...
Einstein and Newton from a scientific starting point, Descartes and Plato
from a philosophical starting point and Pascal and Augustine from a theological
starting point.... thus each one is different....

let us go for our maps again.... I take a map and I use that map to
find my way.... the starting point makes a huge difference....

a map that starts in Detroit is different from a map that starts from New York
which is different from a map that starts from L.A....and thus each
will end in a different place.....and each map is a map of reality...
but because they start from different places will be different maps....

what if the map starts from a imaginary point.... say, El Dorado, the myth
of the golden city that the Spanish followed for many, many miles.....
El Dorado doesn't exist and the Spanish were lead many miles away
from pretty much everything.... in following this myth.......

so if we start from the wrong place.. we have a good chance of ending up
in the wrong place....... that is the trouble with theological maps....
they start from the wrong premise and take us far away from reality......
their map insist that there is a god and heaven and hell and angels and
the devil.... that is a map of their reality... but what if god doesn't exists
and that means there is no heaven and no hell and no angels and no devil...
their map is completely wrong and following a map that is completely wrong
will lead one on the wrong path........

scientist have a different map....and their map of reality is closer to reality
then the theologian.....scientist don't need faith for their map to be right,
and by science, the map is self correcting.... leading scientist toward a
destination.... but that is the problem with science... it doesn't have a
destination, just a method to keep one on track but on track toward what?

Philosophers have their map.... a map of reality.... and Descartes and Spinoza
and Plato and Kant and Hegel all have a different map of reality.........
so who do you follow? the person or the map which seems to be closes to
reality for you.....so for me, the person whose map seems to be closes to reality
for me is Hume and Nietzsche... but for you, it might be Kant and Descartes....
and for someone else it might be Plato and Husserl......you never know.....
but that is the point.... we each follow a philosopher because their map
seems to be the closes to reality that we can see.......

as mentioned, some maps are tainted because they are corrupted by
myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions... these corruptions
make the map unreliable and not very trustworthy ....would you follow
a map that seems to be unreliable? I wouldn't... and you shouldn't either....
this is the point of having myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
that they corrupt our personal map.... and that corruption will lead us the wrong
way..... but how do we find out what is the right destination?
ah, that is the trick isn't it, finding out what is the right destination
and thus finding out what is the right map for us to use.........

is my destination to be an righteous man? then a theological map is the
right one... is my destination to be a accurate man? then science seems
to have the right map....is my destination to be a wise man?
then philosophy or a philosophic map, would seem to be the right one......

the destination it seems help us understand which map to use.....
are we creating an equal and just world? then Marx has the right map....
are we creating a democratic world? then the enlightenment ideals seem
to be the right map..... and that is a very interesting thing about maps...
it can lead us individually or it can lead us collectively......
and the map can tell us our place in the world.. both individually and
collectively......some maps tell us that we exist individually and collectively
and we can be both, individual and part of something.... those maps are
very popular maps... because we can learn who we are and what is our
place in the universe, both individually and collectively... theological
maps are popular for this and the communism map is also popular for this......

so whose map do you follow and why?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:42 pm

we seem to act as if we are done with the evolution
of society/government and us...... as if there is no where
else to go because we have capitalism and representative democracy,
as our systems and that is it... we're done.... we have our political
system and we have our economic system and nothing else needs to be done....
we have reached the final place of history... that's all folks.....

and yet, we aren't done.... for us to adapt, we must change our
systems, both political and economic to adapt the changing conditions...
a system that is perfect at one time, becomes totally disastrous at a later date...

even our current political system has change dramatically since the days of
the founding fathers because of changes in demographics and population growth
and technology among other changes....... the government must change and adapt
to changing conditions like any other system in order to adapt, to function
well....

if we came back in a hundred years, the government we will see, will be
dramatically different then the one we see today and it should change....
it should adapt to the changing conditions....

we must not think that we are at the end of the journey...
we are on a never ending path, a journey...one that will conclude
with an entirely different set of people... just not us.....

understand that we are not only in the process of change, we are change.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:59 pm

I have written about myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
that we have.... these myths and so on, are programs written into us
by our families and church and media and state.....we are programmed
from childhood to hold certain beliefs.... America is the greatest country on earth...
with myths like this, we indoctrinate our youth to hold certain beliefs
that we want to passed down from generation to generation....

but what current myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
exist today?

for example, the fake news impression from IQ45....but other myths also
inhabit our world...... for example, the myth that the landings on the moon.
were somehow faked.....the reason for these fake landings are never really made
clear, but that is the point....

the rise of the conspiracy world is no less about myths and habits and prejudices
and superstition then in the past when people believed in spirits and angels and
god and heaven and hell..... how is the believe in such myths and habits
any different then the conspiracy theory of the faked moon landing or in
the other urban myths of today.......the Jews run the world type of myth...
or the secret cabal that runs the world, somehow or the illuminati that runs the world.....
how are these modern myths any different then the age old myths of witches
and demons and angels and god, heaven and hell?

I for one, don't see any difference between the long ago old myths and the new myths/
conspiracies of today.. the fake news of today is no different then the fake news of
yesterday.... it has just changed in the type of myths and habits and prejudices and
superstition we see today, it doesn't change the hold that these myths and habits
have on people.....

and the value that society has in the people having these myths is a rather interesting one...
if people are hung up on these fake news/myths, then they are not paying attention
to what is happening today....the real crimes of anti-democratic actions such as
inequality and injustice and intolerance are being committed......

fake news is perpetuated because it keeps people from seeing what is going on or
to get people to say, the hell with it, pox on both houses and I am just not going
to pay any attention of any kind....it allows people permission to just tune
out the news of the world and not pay attention.......

I know people who hold these conspiracy theory's and they are always
going on about the media is just fake news and the moon landing is fake
and about government conspiracies to take over the nation.....
these people are no different then those who hold views about
angels and the devil and witches and demons..... there is no difference in
the need to hold these myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions....
for that is what they are, these modern urban lies are myths
and habits and prejudices and superstitions....

we cannot grow as a people until we learn to live without these myths
and habits and prejudices and superstitions.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:51 pm

what is the point of being a "Christian" if you don't follow Christian ethics?

the original Christian thought of being Christian as a way of life.....
it wasn't meant and wasn't thought of as an intellectual or theoretical
exercise, it was meant to be a complete and total way of life.......
you didn't just show how Christian you were by occasionally attending
church for one hour a week....no, you vowed to live your life in
accordance to the teachings of Christ....

it is the same for philosophy.... Plato and Aristotle thought of philosophy
as a way of life, not as a theoretical devise to create philosophy but to live
philosophy...... as a way of life....

this understanding is lost in today's world......
why don't use theories or ism's as a way of life.....
capitalism today is not a way of life, but a tool to
enslave millions of people, but it is not a way of life......
communism of stalin/lenin was used to enslave millions of lives,
but it was a false and failed understanding of Marx's communism
that drove this version of communism......... but it wasn't meant
to be a way of life.......

and that is the failure of today..... we hold theoretical views,
though shall not lie.... though shall not kill.... but
we don't practice what we preach, we don't want to
have a way of life... we want easy answers to the question,
how shall we live our lives? certainly no one today, even suggests
that we turn believe into a way of life..... if you are truly an
Christian, then make that a way of life....

be what you believe in....

become that person.....

oh no, that is way too hard to even suggest.....
most people would rather have simple, answers that require no
commitment..... why work to be a Christian? it is easier to
just pretend..... be a CINO....Christian in name only....

and you CINO who approve of IQ45 depriving the poor and working poor
of much needed aid and assistance.... you hold your Christianity lightly
and in name only if you don't work to improve the lot of the poor...
for didn't Christ himself work to help and aid the poor and needy.....

it is an easy thing to proclaim one Christianity if it means you don't have to do
anything..... a Cino would say, let the poor suffer because they brought it on themselves...
we, we work for everything we have and so should they......
it is easy to proclaim ones superiority when there is food on the table and a roof
over one's head.......it is easy to think the world is alright when you
know where your next meal is coming from....

Millionaire congressmen think the world has no problem because they
are millionaires and they have food on the table and a roof over their head.....
it is easy to dismiss the poor and needy if you have no want....
if I am fine... the rest of the world can go to hell... I have mine...
the thoughts of Christians? no, the thought of CINO's.....

It is easy to be a Christian if one doesn't actually have to practice Christianity.....
if one doesn't actually use Christianity as a way of life.... just occasionally and
whenever it is convenient to be a Christian....that is the CINO way....
call yourself Christian when it suits you and when it is convenient...
but don't use it as a way of life.... just once a week for an hour a day....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:50 pm

if as suggested that Christianity (and other religions) and Patriotism
are simply myths and habits and prejudice and superstition,
then what should we believe in?

remove such myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
from our belief system and what is left?

what is left?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:48 pm

if we tell our life story, we certainly don't
comment on the forces that impacted our lives.....
I was born in 1959 in Minnesota,
move to a city outside of Chicago in 1963
moved in 1969 to Florida...

this short list of my first ten years doesn't cover the forces that
shaped those years... schooling and the media, the state, events like
the assassination of JFK and Martin Luther King, plus the turbulent 60's.....
I remember watching Walter Cronkite and listening to how many American
soldiers dies that week in Vietnam... and not really understanding what that
meant....I remember my father coming home in the summer of 1968, with
blood on his white dress shirt... blood from protesters of the Democratic
national convention which was in Chicago that year.....he was a newspaperman....

like a small ship on the sea, during a large storm... we are buffeted by
forces quite beyond our ability to manage and often beyond our ability to
understand..... an corporate executive somewhere gets a hankering for
a house in Italy and to make his bonus, he must cut 100,000 jobs....
and then you are out of work....simple as that... he gets his bonus and you get......

how do we find certainty in such a world where if someone gets a hard on for
a house in Italy and thousands lose their job.....

or congress to give massive tax cuts to their donors, cut people
off of Medicare or WIC programs..... how do we find certainty in a world
like that?

perhaps the answer or the goal may not be certainty... we can never be certain
about anything....... so why make certainty a goal, when it is not possible to obtain
any kind of certainty...work with the goals that are possible, so take out the search
for certainty as being a goal of philosophy, so what is left?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:47 pm

what we are facing, our malaise, is simply this,
we have science on one side and religion on the other side, but
and this is important, neither one will answer our questions....
science can't answer our question because we do not understand science....
modern technology which is based on science is incomprehensible to most
people.... even such science as evolution which is pretty easy, is incomprehensible
to most people.......we cannot use science to understand what life is and
what life is about.... there is no why in science and so we can't use science
to create some ends or goals to our life....

and religion, on the other side has been thoroughly destroyed......
the why that exists in religion no longer is applied by people....
the miracles of religions no longer resonate with people...
they no longer matter to people....

if we cannot find comfort in religion and
understanding in science, then what?

what is left?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:57 pm

so on one side we have science and 99% of all people
who have no understanding of science, what it is or how it works....

and we have the religious, where in light of science and the enlightenment
ideals of toleration and freedom have reduce the religious to once
a week on Sunday and absolutely no religious thoughts during the rest
of the week... the vast majority of people in America are CINO'S,
Christians in name only.....

so we have the medieval time period which was the religious
and then we have the reawaking, the Renaissance, from which build
into the age of science and then the age of the enlightenment....and for
400 years slowly we have gone from the religious age to a science age.....

but as I have noted, few understand science... and we have seen the uses
of science and have noted the dangers.... but dangers not from the science itself,
but how it is used.... science is neutral, it isn't good or bad... it just is...
but depending on how it is used, it can be good or evil........

and we have seen enough science being used for evil that we don't
trust science but the danger is with the use of science, not the science itself....

and few trust the religious....if you actually trusted god, would
you need to kill others in his name? no, the ones who prattle on
about others being irreligious or blasphemous, those people are the
ones with weak faith... the noisy ones about faith are the ones who
lack faith.... real faith that god is in charge and you are just along for
the ride.....few, very few have real faith...... and the same can be
said about science, few trust science, really trust science......

so, what about the rest of us? we cannot turn toward the religious,
but we don't trust science mostly because we don't understand it......
you can't trust something you don't understand......

so where is the third way? perhaps, perhaps that is what
existentialism is all about.... finding that third way....
not the path of science and not the path of religion....
but a new path into the future.... and we still are working
out that path.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:57 pm

the evolution of belief has us going from a
"universal" belief in god and angels and demons
and the devil, heaven and hell.....

today, few have a real belief in any of those things......
reading about the enlightenment is the point that the
enlightenment was about freeing us from myths, habits,
prejudices and superstitions of the time......for each time
has its own myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions.....

one of our myths is that we live in a democracy... we don't.....
another habit/myth is we are that the U.S is the freest country on earth...
another myth/habit is that we even have freedom, we don't.....
sure you are free to select your car and your cereal and the shoes
you wear, but so what? freedom of this type is limited because
you have only 4 companies making all that cereal on the shelf's
and you only have 5 companies making all those models of car's....

the freedom to buy merchandise is not freedom.. just crass materialism....
true freedom is the ability to make choices, choices
of who we are and what are our possibilities?...to believe we are free
to choose god is simply not true because you have one choice,
pick god or spend eternity in hell... and that is not a choice, but a threat....
you do not have choice politically because we have no choices politically....
one might claim we can vote out our politicians but the fact is, most
politicians are lock into their positions by gerrymandering....the politicians
choose their voters and not the voters choosing the politicians....
gerrymandering is one of the greatest threats to democracy that exists...
and as long as gerrymandering exists, we shall not have a viable democracy....

another myth/habit is the idea that the politicians are working for us...
how can they be, when they get millions of dollars from corporations and
individuals? Politicians simply follow the money and do the bidding of
those who pay for their influence...

so we have several myths and habits that plague us, we live in a
democracy and that we have economic freedom, because we don't....
if you only have one choice, you don't have a choice... and if we only have
capitalism as our only choice, then we don't have a choice.....

so we exists in a two part tyranny,
both political (lack of democracy and our representatives being bought and sold)
and economic (lack of economic choices and the tyranny of the profit margin/the pursuit
of profit which is nihilism)

the path to freedom, real political and economic freedom must be
our goal, our destination....how are we to free ourselves of these
tyrannies, economic and political?

the path into the future is really a path into real and true freedom,
which means real and immediate freedom of choice... not just a pretend
economic or political fantasy about our freedom of choices.....we have
no choice if we only have one choice......

the choices available must also includes choices that we don't even
approve of.... choices must include all choices, not just ones
we happen to approve of....

politically, today we have two and only two choices....
pretend democracies or dictatorships like Putin's Russia....
those aren't choices if you only have one choice,
the pretend democracy or the dictatorship.....

and as both of them are fundamentally flawed, it doesn't leave us
much choice, now does it?

so how do we escape our dilemma?

by first becoming aware of our situation and then second,
understanding what our possibilities are....what are our choices?

indeed, what our are choices?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:07 pm

in reading about the enlightenment, one argument against
"freethinkers" "Spinozist" "Radicals" "Atheist" was that to believe
in such things, was a path to the destruction of civilization,
of the loss in belief in god lead to people being free to commit
acts of violence and destruction and crimes against society because
this "atheism" lead to a loss of values.... and this loss meant
people were free to act in any way possible to the determent
of society and yet, it is clear that the continued march in the loss
of belief did not lead to such crisis in society.... in fact, if we know our
history, we know that society is safer today, then it was 200 or 300 years ago...
and this loss of belief had no impact on the safety or security of society...
we have less belief cannot be denied and yet, we are demonstrable safer
and more secure today then we were, when belief in god and the bible
was consider essential for the safety and survival of society...

one hears the argument that we must, must believe in the
dogmas of state and society to be able to maintain a safe and secure
society and yet, we have heard this for the last 300 year and it still
hasn't been shown to be true...we have a America being full of CINO'S
and yet America still hasn't fallen victim to the violence and insecurity
of lacking respect for the dogmas/myths/habits/prejudices of
America today....in other words, the loss of belief in god and
religion hasn't degraded America in any noticeable way but the loss
of belief in the American way of life has degraded America....but not
in the anticipated way of the violence and mayhem that was predicted...
but in the crisis of belief that has created a malaise in America and the west....
part of this malaise is from the fact we can't release the old, harmful beliefs
of the past but we can't fully accept the new idea's of the present or future...
we are trapped in a circle of our own making...a circle that cannot be broken
until we release the past and accept the oncoming future........
and part of breaking that circle lies in rejecting the current myths,
habits, prejudices and superstitions of the modern age....
you can't go into the future until you have released the past......

a child cannot grow into being a teenager and then a young adult,
until he/she grows and learns to adapt to new beliefs and idea's....
the old idea's of their being a Santa Claus for example...
and moving past the idea that our parents are the end all, be all
of all knowledge and wisdom....the growth of children into
teenagers and young adults mirrors our growth into releasing
our beliefs in the myths and habits of our time and our
society....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:08 pm

we have 6 media corporations owning 95% of ALL media
in this country.... Walt Disney, News Corp,
Time Warner, GE, Viacom, CBS

the big 4 record companies: universal music group, Sony music entertainment,
Warner music group, iTunes.....they own 80% of all record labels...

Car companies: we have 7 major companies in the U.S,
GM, Ford, Fiat Chrysler, Toyota, Daimler, Hyundai, Honda, Nissan...
basically they make most of the cars in the world....

the breakfast cereals are General Mills, Kellogg, Post and Quaker...
so all those breakfast cereals you see in the aisle are made by
4 companies....

in other words, we all eat food made by the same companies,
we watch TV and movies made by the same people,
we listen to the same music and the same radio stations....
we read the same books and we download the same music....
on the same computers made by the same usual suspects, Dell, HP,
Apple, Lenovo, Asus,

in other words, there might be some regional differences but the truth
is we are impacted by the same forces because the sameness of the
companies that own our lives....

we bank at the same banks and have 401k plans with the same people....

our news, music, TV, movies, food, cars and banking all come from the
same 5 or 6 companies that dominate the specific industries..

can you think of a more insidious tyranny then having the
same companies give you your news or food or cars or movies
or TV?

this is why I deny that we have freedom today, because material freedom
means buying from the same 5 or 6 companies for our needs...
and political freedom doesn't exist because those same companies that
that provide our services also buy and sell politicians to
promote the companies, not work for the citizens of the U.S....
for example, days after the tax cut passed, the KOCK brothers
sent a 500,000 check to Ryan to thank him for the massive tax cuts
they got.... he got paid for services rendered.....and that is how Washington
works today.... you get paid for services rendered... and it doesn't matter
what you do for the average citizens because they can't pay the equal
amounts to get equal treatment..... the politicians work for corporations
today... the same corporations that own the food and media and car and
banking industries....

so if you keep hearing the U.S is number one or that we are the greatest
country on earth, its because the same 6 corporations that own the media
want you to believe that the US is number one or that we are the
greatest country on earth.....it is in their best financial interest to make
you believe that... whether its true or not, is irrelevant....

so what is the answer to this corporate tyranny?
simple, stop buying things, don't buy things...
the corporate world survives and thrives because you and I
keep buying things.....so don't...live below your means and starve
the corporate interests that own and tyrannize this country...

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:16 pm

now let us tie this together....

if we don't live in a democracy and we don't, then we have
something else......if your elected representative only follow
the money and do as the corporate interest want, then they don't
representative you... they represent those corporate interest...
you have no representation in congress and if the president does the same
thing as IQ45 does, then you have no one representing you in Washington DC...
we are no longer a democracy if you have no representation in the political
sphere....the idea of democracy is that the power flows from the people to
places like Washington but that is no longer true..........you have no power
and the corporations have all the power to do what they want, hence we
get massive tax cuts for corporations and individual within those corporations....
we get lobbyist writing laws for congressmen who then simply take the
laws written by lobbyist and hand it straight into the basket for approval
in congress....and then the congressman gets his pay like Paul Ryan got his
payment in the form of a check from the Kock brothers for 500,000 after
passing the tax bill.....

and we don't have economic freedom if the only economic system is
capitalism which is built upon the theft of wages from it employee's...
how do you think corporation and individuals build up such wealth?
it comes from wage theft of its employee's... if you create $5 dollars of
goods or effort and the company sells that good or effort for more then $5
dollars, then your creation of goods or effort is sold for more then they pay you...
for example, if you wage is say, for convenience sake, $5 dollars an hour,
the company to make a profit must sell your work for more, say, $10 dollars
an hour and who profits from this extra profit? certainly not you.. the company
pockets the creation of the extra $5 bucks and thus from your work, pay
the enormous salaries and bonuses of CEO's.... not their work, your work creates
the profit they use to create their enormous pay.....so economically,
we are certainly not free, not a consumers as I showed by the few companies
that own the media and car industry and food industry and banking and
breakfast cereals....... you don't have freedom in any economic sense because
of the small number of companies that control the various markets....and you don't
have any freedoms as an employee... remember the right to work states, which
can fire you for anything at anytime... without cause... you are at the mercy of
corporations, both in terms of what you can buy and how you can work.....

so we don't have any political freedom and we don't have any economic freedom,
so what freedom do we have? free speech? try trashing the company you work for
on social media and you will get fired... you have a very limited free speech...
do you freedom of actions? no, government intrusion into social aspects of life,
like preventing abortions...... you have a very limited free actions......


so lf you lost your myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions,
you would see and thus know, that you are no longer living in a democratic
society with freedom of actions and speech limited... you live in a world
where it is a political system called Corporatcracy......
a society or system that is governed or controlled by corporations....

do you want to continue this course where you have no rights and no freedoms?

say nothing, do nothing and your life will be controlled for you by
corporations..... the battle for who you are has already been decided
in corporate boardrooms all over the world..... do you want your fate to be
decided for you? if you are ok with that, then do nothing, say nothing..
don't march or protest, just sit on your couch watching spoonfed
media, designed to keep you passive and silent.....

make a choice....become who you are... by your choice, not some corporate
choice make for you.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:19 am

and what does this have to do with my constant call
for people to become who they and find their possibilities?

why everything..... you don't exist independent of society or what
happens in society....the tide of forces beyond our control
and forcing up to become passive and silent worker bee's with
no rights and no freedoms and no possible course of actions.....

you have two choices, one is be a worker bee and two, become
engaged with your own garden.. don't become involved...
disengage in society and work on your stuff....

but you are not given the third choice.... fight back....
engage in what has been a 40 year class warfare against the
poor, minorities, working and middle class driven by
the ultra rich.....they have been engaged in class warfare
since the earlier 1980's... fight back....this is war...
defend yourself against those who have taken your political
rights away and the same people who have taken your economic rights away.....

or just give and say, pox on both houses... let the revolution begin without
actually defining who we are fighting and what is our mission statement is....

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union....."

this is one such mission statement..... and we need another, newer
mission statement that fits our new and ever changing environment....
where we are no longer subject to the old tyrannies but subject to
new tyrannies of economic domination of our lives by our corporate
overlords.....

I can now see why the French had a revolution and the Romans did not,
the French monarchy didn't even care enough to offer up "bread and circus"
whereas at least the Romans did so and so went without a major revolt
the last 500 years of Roman existence.....Years that went very badly for
the Roman Peasants but they had their "bread and circus" to keep them
amused.... the French revolution is one such example we must keep in mind
in plotting our new revolution... the Russian revolution is another example....
when you have nothing, not even hope, where your life no longer makes
any type of difference, you have nothing to lose in engaging in revolution....
we have nothing to lose, we don't have any political freedom and we don't have
any economic freedom, but we do have our "bread and circus" and perhaps
that will be enough to avoid revolution in our country.....
such flimsy excuse to avoid reclaiming your life...
I can't fight for who I am because I have to watch the Kardashians tonight....

and we return to the chains of our myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions... these chains hold us from acting upon what is in our best
interest which is overthrowing the corporate overlords.. and recovering
our lives, being saved as it were... you want salvation, here is your chance
to find salvation and be saved.... save yourself from the chains that keep
you tied up in our corporate political system....discover what myths and
habits and prejudices and superstitions you hold onto, that allows
the corporate overlords to keep and maintain power over our lives

that is the true meaning of salvation, the true meaning of being saved....
saving yourself and your children from the tyrannies that hold us hostage.....
using outdated myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions that allow
them to keep power...... America is the greatest country on earth.....
that myth helps keep them in power... America is the freest country on
earth, that habit and prejudice helps keep them in power....

the mantra that I have preached over these last 2 years come into play
now.... become who you are by taking control of your life, economically
and politically and socially..... walk away from the current religion of America,
commercialism....materialism, the fetish of buying goods for the sake of
buying goods and not for the betterment of you or your society......
you buy crap because that is what keeps the system up and running....
so shut it down... literally by not buying what they are selling,
both as an ideology, a religion and as a system.....
stop buying goods and material to fuel your materialist lifestyle....
and in doing so, we damage the system.... we have to crash the house
around our ears to regain control of our lives...

but if you want to be a slave to the corporations, please do nothing,
say nothing, be silent and passive...

your corporate masters thank you......


Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:03 pm

words to remember: reasonable, moderate, judicious, measured,
average, compromising, gentle, soft, temperate, disciplined, sober....


now in regards to my last post calling for a revolution because we
have a tyranny in this country, a tyranny of the economic and political....

one might say, Kropotkin, you have been talking about self and finding
our possiblities and other such philosophical issues, now you are calling for
a revolution to overthrow the so called tyranny in America.....that calling
for a revolution is extreme and radical, illadvised and intemperate.....
there is no such need for such radical action... moderate actions are needed
and required.. be patiant and measured and moderate and judicious in words
and actions... don't be a radical......moderate solutions are what is called for,
not such radicalism....

I say look at France circa, 1787.....after years, indeed decades of
fiscial mismangement begining with the building of Versailles...and going for the next
100 years.... the people were suffering and there were even famines.....
due to some crop failures.... the people had enough... there millions who
were in extreme poverty and millions more were barely making it....

and what moderate solution would have fixed that extreme poverty?
what reasonable solution would have brought millions out of barely surviving?

no, extreme times calls for extreme solutions.....

recall Russia circa, 1917....the first World War has brought Russia to
ruin... after decades of mismanagment, Russia was on the brink of complete
collapse..it was an extreme situation and what moderate and sensible and
temperate solution would have save Russia from collapse?
extreme time calls for extreme solutions.....

so we today, we exists in extreme times, what moderate and reasonable
solutions would you have us do to fight the extreme radicalism of the right...
who deny the basic and fundamental rights of people to have food and shelter
and schooling and basic protections of the law and live in fear
of the police and being deported.......

the radical extremism of the right forcing people to choose between food
and medicine, my mother who is 83 must make this choice as the price
of her medicine has grown to the point where she must make a choice
between food and her medicine and millions upon millions of people must
make the same choice....why should she face a retirement where
she can barely exist and then is threaten with the reduction of social security checks
and increase cost of medicare and Medicaid..... or mothers who because of the
reduction of such programs like chip and WIC must choose who gets to eat because
of these reductions in needed services for children.....

and what does the radical right offer in place of people facing starvation?

tax cuts! and not for the poor, noooooo, massive tax cuts for the wealthy and
powerful...and what moderate and sober and reasonable solution do you offer
for millions facing such horrible choices between food and needed medicine?

a tax cut? for the wealthy? if you offer such a thing, you are without a soul....

and what reasonable and moderate solution would you offer to
help feed children who have very little to eat as it is?

and how do we educate such children when we reduce
the money going to schools and offer vouchers? vouchers to
get kids into schools when they can't afford to eat, little
less be able to get into a charter school or some other type
of private school.....

these are radical times, extreme times and radical times call for,
demand radical and extreme solutions.... when a man is starving,
do you offer him a tax cut? if you are a soulless republican, yes,
you offer a starving man, a tax cut... a rich person solution to
a poor person problem....and that is what is wrong with America....

the GOP offers a rich man solution to a poor person problem....
a tax cut won't feed your children and a tax cut won't solve
the problem of a older person choosing between
food and medicine and a tax cut won't pay for your heat during
the winter months and won't pay for an education for a child....

why? because a tax cut is a reimbursement for expenses made
and these people are too poor to have the expenses in the first place...
they can't get a tax cut for an expense they can't afford.... that is why
tax cuts are a rich person solution because they can afford the expense
in the first place and thus can claim it later on their taxes.....

a tax cut is after the fact and that doesn't feed people or children
or old people at the moment when they actually need the money to pay
for food or housing or shelter or heating costs.....a tax cut reimburses them
afterword..... when it doesn't do them a fucking lot of good.......

these are not moderate and measured or reasonable or judicious
times, these are extreme and radical times and extreme and radical
times call for extreme and radical solutions.....

wealthy people can afford moderate and reasonable solutions,
starving and helpless people cannot.....if you offer up a moderate
and reasonable solution, it is a rich person solution to a poor person problem.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:18 pm

men are evil but man is good.....

this is one of Rousseau's favorite sayings.....

man is born free but everywhere in chains.....

another of Rousseau's saying......

these two point are connected.... recall when Rousseau wrote....
Christainty was still the strongest influence in Europe....
and what was the Christian idea? that man is born with
original sin, man was born guilty of a crime committed...
and man cannot be saved unless god saved him, there was no
other possiblility to be saved.... this idea of original sin has been hanging
over people since the end of the Roman Empire......for over a thousand years,
people have been taught that they were born guilty of crimes committed...
this myth, habit, prejudice, superstition was the basis of how people thought
of themselves and how they thought of people....

and here is Rousseau saying man is born free... free? free from the guilt of
original sin? the basis of both catholicism and protestantism is this idea of
guilt, the guilt of original sin....man cannot go to heaven until the father
saves the son, god saves man.......and that can only happen when the son
asks for forgiveness.... for sins committed, for the other idea is all men
are corrupt.....and guilty of sin.... for no man is without sin except jesus....
this is vital to understand, to make sense of Rousseau....but what are the chains
he refers to? they are the chains of myths and habits and prejudice and superstition
that are taught to us as children..... that there is a god, and we are born of sin and guilt,
America is the greatest country on earth. America is the freest country on earth....
these myths, these habits form a picture of the universe in a child's mind that
take the place of real thought of who we are and what is our purpose in life....

but why are men evil and man is good?
because we have taught that.... man is born guilty of a crime, a crime
of original sin, since the middle ages the church and the teachers have taught
that men are evil, that men are guilty, that we cannot be saved by our own
devices...we must have the help of another to find our way into heaven....

men are evil because we have been taught we were evil... we are of original sin,
and that is evil... but man, MAN is good because we are born free of this
knowledge but we are then taught, man and we are man, we are guilty
of sin, we are born of sin, we begin our thinking lives with this understanding
that we are born of guilt and guilty of sin, that we are evil until we are
forgiven by god... if a child is taught they are evil, then they grow
up believing they are evil and if there is no forgiveness, then why
bother being good, it doesn't matter if you are good or not,
you are going to die evil, unable to get to heaven...... this notion
of sin and guilt....

for over a thousand years, man was taught he was evil, until people like
Rousseau taught people differently....

men are evil, but man is good.....

man is born free but everywhere in chains.....

when we give children ribbons for participating in sports,
we are saying, you have value.... we are reacting to a thousand years
of teaching that man is evil and worthless.....and we are rejecting
the message of those thousand year's.....and what message should we
be rejecting today?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:05 pm

if we understand the above post, then we can come
to the same conclusion that Rousseau came to, that
man is born free and innocent... but the message from
society was that we are born guilty and in bondage...
society then continues to carry out that message with
phony and false myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions like
to survive, we must compete and defeat our fellow man......
there is only competition between man, not cooperation.....
if you want your piece of the pie, you must fight for it or die.....

but the truth is this... the pie is big enough to support everyone...
we don't need to compete for our piece of the pie because it
is big enough... but because of income inequality, where
500 people have the same wealth has half the world's population....
3.5 BILLION people.......how is that justified by the wealthy is
simply by more myths and prejudices, the Ayn Rand superstitions that
the wealthy deserve their wealth by virture of their superority
and their creating more wealth then others......as if the creation of wealth
is the basis of what a human being is.... that all our possibilities are
in the creation of wealth....and not in being a better human being or in
finding new means of becoming....or in the act of simple reflection of who
we are.....

man is good but because society is about the creation of wealth and
the search for profit to make the 1% even wealthier, that creates
the new false message that we exist because we are consumers
and producers... we exist to consume and we exist to create wealth,
not for ourselves mind you, but for those who own the means of production.....

we don't exist just to be ourselves.... we exist to make a contribution
to society, I.E. to create profits for the 1%.....

WE ARE A MEANS TO AN END.... and that end is profits....
and we are expendable assets that have value only as long
as we create profits and once we no longer create profits,
we are tossed aside like yesterday's garbage.....that is the modern
value of man..... profit creating........

in some ways, this is worse then the old fashion idea that
we are born of original sin and thus guilty.... because at least,
here we can be saved if we confess our sins and we can be saved...
whereas if we have value only as the creators of profit, there isn't
a chance of redemption, of being saved... because how does one get
saved in a world of profit? by only having money and those few,
those lucky few, the 1%... they are saved.... the rest is dammed.....

when the only value that is respected is money, then everything
gets judged by money.... if all you have is a hammer, then everything
looks like a nail...there is no other values......

and so one is judge by money... not by deeds or idea's or
wisdom, but by money... and those without money
are judge unworthy, without value, having no point or purpose....

society by valuing money over all other values, creates
the message that without money, you have no value....
that you have no point or purpose.....

have you ever wonder why life seems to be so cheap?
because society has deemed life to be cheap... in its search for
profits, life has been deem of less value then profits, life has less
value then money... if you want life to have value, to have meaning,
then you must place life above money, above profits......

but this will not happen because to do so will reduce the
worth of the 1% and they own the media and the state and
the church and so they will continue to push the narrative of
the 1%.....that the only value in life is profits.. everything else
is replaceable, expendable, disposable including people....

you want to know why we are so fucked up?
because the message of the 1% devalues life to being
replaceable, expendable, disposable....

profits above people devalues people.......

and that is the message of society today.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:54 pm

one of Rousseau's points was that wealth created the corruption of man..
wealth doesn't create the corruption of man, it is the pursuit of wealth
that negates man or the values of man....when we pursue wealth or profits
to the negation of who we are, then that is the source of the corruption....

wealth itself is not good or evil, it is neutral... how it is used determines
whether it is "good or evil"........things are not "good or evil".....
it is how they are used that decides if they are "good or evil".....

morality is simply a judgement about how things are used.....
not the things themselves......for things themselves are neutral....

human beings are things and as such are neutral.. it is how
we use or are used that determines our "good or evil".....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:27 pm

the question that Rousseau began his writing career on, was the question
given by the Academy of Dijon, "Whether the restoration of the sciences
and arts has contributed to purify morals?"

in other words, has the growth of civilization contributed to our moral growth?
are we more moral because of civilization or are we less moral because of
civilization? now that question depends on how one answers the question of,
what is morals?

the question also depends on our understanding of civilization......
as pointed out, civilization is really a neutral idea........
it isn't "good or evil" per se.....but depending on how it is used....
and what is its goal? it civilization used for the enrichment of
individual members or is civilization used for the benefit of all the
members of a society?

as defined right now, society/civilization is used for the enrichment of
individual members, the 1%.... and not for the benefit of all
the members of society.....so we are less moral because of this
use of civilization... if we use civilization for the benefit of all members
of society, then we are more moral...... how a society uses its members
decides the value of the members of that society... morality becomes
a function of how society uses its members of that society.....
in a throwaway, disposable, expendable society that values society
citizens only for their consumerism, then morality becomes a question
of the value of individual members of society...and if you create nothing,
you have no value...if you have no wealth, you have no value.....
because morality implies value.... and if you have no value, you
are outside of morality... because you have no value in society......
morality is connected to the creation of wealth and the creation of
profits.........and the moral righteous ones are the ones who create
profits..... and the rest because of their failure to create profits
and money, are immoral and thus have no value......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:13 pm

so another words, how is "human nature" created?

one argument is human nature is innate.....
another argument is human nature is created by experiences....

we are a blank slate says the experience argument..
and that experiences fill up the blank slate......
and if society creates myths and habits and prejudices and
superstions, that lead people to believe or to understand
they have no value outside of creating profits, that understanding
creates "human nature"... creates the idea that we have no value
outside of creating profits and/or by being a consumer.....

"human nature" is created by society and if society has no need or any
use for values outside of the creation of profits, then most human
beings have no value in society.....and human beings become
replacable, expendable, disposeable......

the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions of
our childhood become the basis of our "human nature" and
if those myths...etc. negate our being, they damage
our "human nature"......

we can only become who we are by society allowing, no, that is
the wrong word, not allowing, but by accepting who we are even if
we don't create profits.....if our "human nature" is created
by experiences, then we should create experiences that allow
us to become something more then the creators of profit....

for example, in education, we educate to create a working class,
to allow people the skills to get a job and support themselves..
that is all education is used for... not to create better people or
to improve themselves but to use people to become better workers
and create bigger profits......

what if, what if we change the meaning of education to mean,
to educate people to become better people and not use education to
train people to have skills to get a job.....what if education is used
to discover who we are and to find out our possibilities, which does not
involve job training and finding a career.... but to improve us in how to
become better people... to search for wisdom and not job skills.....

what is education for? that becomes the question......

what is "human nature"? that is the goal of education and not
just to train workers to get careers......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:39 pm

so in regards to "human nature".....
if we don't reward such human values as kindness, joy,
love, happiness, the positive values of human experience....then
why have those experiences?

if we negate those human values for the pursuit of profits,
then society rewards those who follow the pursuit of profits...
and those who follow love and peace and joy and joy are
not only not rewarded but in fact, are punished....

at work, which values are rewarded?
certainly not values of love or peace or
happiness....... work and society doesn't reward those
who have values outside of the pursuit of profits.....

if you pursue profits, you are rewarded at work with promotions and
bonuses.... if you don't, you are punished or at best ignored and
deemed without value..... that is how experience is created....
and human nature is created..... you reward the actions you favor
and you punish the actions not in favor....and so the creation of
profits is rewarded and thus we learn what is "human nature".....

if you want people who pursue wisdom, you reward those
those who pursue wisdom and punish those who don't pursue
wisdom.....that is how we train children and that is how we train
students and that is how we train workers......we reward behavior
we like and we punish behavior we dislike.....

this negation of value works this way.... if we love at work,
we are punished because love doesn't create profits...
hard work creates profits and is rewarded.....
the values we accept are rewarded and the values
we don't accept are punished.....

and this is how we create "human nature".....

by reward and punishment.......

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:33 pm

a question of human nature...

why don't we reward laziness?

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:20 pm

a question I keep comin back to, is this question of
certainty....life is one big question of uncertainty.....
it is now noon, shall I still be alive at 5:00 tonight?
I don't know. I am uncertain.....the further I inquire into
what life is and what life is about, the less certain I become....

when I was young, life was black and white.. it was certain in its
actions.... now, now I don't know anything..... I cannot be certain about
anything..... shall I die? I cannot know that... I can certainly guess that I shall
die, but guessing is not certainty.... what we can know for certain?
as far as I can tell, nothing.....and we have no way of becoming certain
about anything.....there is a certain fixation of the past and that is because
we can create, in our minds, a certainty about the past....it is very attractive to
believe that something is certain.... this belief in god is in large part about
the certainty that the belief in god creates... it becomes a certainty that we
can depend upon..... and yet, even with this belief in god, comes with
uncertainty.... for we cannot be certain that we are part of the elect...
the ones that shall go to heaven..... we have the ego to believe that we are
the elect, but ego is not certainty.... ego is simply ego.....in fact, if I were
to make a joke, uncertainty is the only certainty we have.......
it is easy to be black and white, for that creates a certainty that we might
base our views upon but the fact is, viewing the universe in black and white,
yes and no, up and down, good and evil,
fails to catch the universe in its entirety....

any given action can be viewed as yes and no and good and evil...
can that action be considered evil, yes, depending on how it affects you
and the exact same action might be considered good, depending on how it affects
you......we can never be certain if any given action is good or bad... we can guess,
but that is all, a guess and nothing more.....we begin this journey of life with not much
more then a kiss for luck and off we go.... we have nothing else....

we consider money some sort of certainty...if we are rich, we have some
sort of certainty... and if we have an collage education, we believe
we have some sort of certainty....and if we have friends and family,
that creates some sort of certainty in our lives... but fact is, that the
things that we consider certainties are not...they are just moments in
the sand and soon to washed out by the waves of time.....we have nothing
and we are nothing and we have no certainty.... just brief moments in times
and then those moment are gone......

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:21 pm

we have a situation in our economic and political life whereas
we have institutionalize inequality and disparity in wealth and freedom
and influence.....Rousseau basic starting point and his first claim
to fame is that men are evil and man is good.... meaning
that we are naturally good and that we have been turned to "bad" or
"evil" by our society and its institutuionalize inequality.....
the man who was first able to fence in a piece of land and claim
it is his, was the begining of this source of institutionalize inequality...
and the state's main purpose is to defend private property, as is claimed
by Locke........now Rousseau didn't want to return to the state of nature,
as Hobbes put it, "life outside of society would be 'solitary, poor, nasty,
brutish and short".... we need society to allow us to escape this
state of nature.... but how do we escape this institutionalize inequality
and still not exist in this state of nature?

society and its institutions have created "evil" in men...
but we need society.... the GOP and its phony answer is
and is defined by Raygun, being the state itself is the problem,
the government is the problem.... but that is not a solution....
removing the state brings us back to a state of nature where,
"life outside of society/government would be solitary.........."

so we have a two part question, one, is man naturally good?
and two, is the state part of the problem as defined by Rousseau
and Raygun? The institutions of the state that create and foster
the institutionalize inequality that exists in the state, must those
institutions be eliminated? or do we have to do/try something else?

in my study of history, I understand that as the population grows,
the state/government must also grow to help organize society to
avoid the primitive state of nature that allows life to be "solitary....
the rise of government and its institutions comes from the rise of
population....you want to limit government? you must reduce
the population and that isn't really possible without
large scale genocide.....and thus that answer is not available to us...

we have to find the answer with the understanding that
we have certain restrictions forced upon us....

we have massive population.... we have already in place, institutions that
will fight to maintain their privilege place, and we have an autocracy,
one of wealth, that have control over the institutions we have such as
the legal system, the legislative system and the executive branch....
they will not willingly give up their power and the protection of their wealth....

but it is clear in any analysis that it is wealth, that is the driver of
our current system, wealth and the protection of one's wealth that
is the basis of our government today....

is one person having billions a problem? no, it is the fact and it is a fact,
that 500 people have the equal wealth as half the population of earth....
that is the problem....... and those 500 people by virtue of their wealth,
control the means of government by bribes to the legislative and executive
system.... why would the wealthy give millions upon millions of dollars
to members of congress if not to buy them? certainly not out of the goodness
of their heart... they are buying influence and buying the government, nothing
short of that........

so when we reduce it down, it becomes money that drives our economic
and political system.... so, the answer becomes remove the money
and thus we can recover our rightful place as owners and
participants within the political process.... because as of right now,
we have no part in government because the politicians listen to
the money and not to the citizens of this country.... you buy
politicians so they listen to you and not the citizens of this country.....

so we come around to the understanding that the institutionalize
inequality of our lives is there to stay unless we remove the
buying and selling of politicians.....

so is Rousseau right? is men evil and man is good?

I think so... within limits......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:34 am

most of thoughts about man, begins with love of self.....

the french call it.. amour propre.... a sense of one's worth, self respect....

Rousseau used it in terms of the esteem that depends on others..
we have amour propre when others view us favorable...

the other term that can be use as self love is amour de soi, which
is self love but is more basic then amour propre.. this self love tends to
be naturally good and is basic with animals also....the self love is for
the individual well being....

so we have two basic idea's about self love.....

but we have a third idea, that is we justify actions taken based on self love.....
I am looking out for my best interests regardless of what that
means to others.... looking out for number one and that is me...

this idea is not only common today but is the basis of our economic system....

but look at our hero's.... we glorify those who don't put self love first......
our hero's are MLK and Gandhi and Lincoln and Mother Teresa.......
people who put others first and they don't practice self love in the
third way......this shows we are aware of and want to follow those
who put others first.... we just don't have a support system that allows us
to practice what we preach........ to practice putting others first means
we face opposition from those who goal is to practice self love by
accumulation of material goods and money.....we are punished
for our desire to put others first by those who practice the vain and
selfish self love.....notice the relationship between the words self
and selfish..........

I call for a new understanding where we not only support but
we actively support those who put others first......

We follow our hero's in this new understanding of who we are.....

we reject the self love of the pursuit of material goods and wealth....
because that self love damages the person who practices it and, and
damages the family and the environment and the society of those who
put self love first, the love of goods and wealth.......

but one says, it increases the wealth of a country and increases
the GDP..... as if that is the important aspect of our lives.... it isn't......
the idea that we are an economic beings first and foremost is wrong
and dangerous..... we cannot afford the practice of an unlimited
pursuit of limited wealth and material goods... we must, to save,
our resources, we must end the capitalistic idea that we pursue
wealth and material goods.... if we put ourselves first, as we have done,
is to risk the future welfare and sustainability of any future society, of our
children health and welfare.....what parent wastefully spends and
destroys a child's inheritance? a rather selfish parent and that is what
we shall be if we waste and destroy our children's inheritance by
using up our resources in some vain and unproductive pursuit of
wealth and material goods.....

what we have failed to understand is our actions are not isolated
actions.... we exists in both space and time... when we act,
our actions exists in both space and time....we take up space and
we occupy time..... if we build a house, that house takes up both
space, the house occupies space and it takes up time....
that house exists within duration, which is time......
with every single house built leaves our children that much less
space and time...... but we have millions to house and feed and clothe.....
therein lies the difficulty of our current economic system whereas
500 people own the same amount of wealth as half of the entire human race.....
in terms of the future sustainability of the human race, we cannot afford to
have the current economic inequality that exists because it denies
the future the ability to create its own future because the wealth
needed to create that future is tied up in the hands of a small
number of people........ so we have a choice, keep our current system
and destroy our children's future or we change and become
aware of our choices and practice love of others before love of self.......

the choice is yours.... self love and destroy the future or practice
love of others and save the future.......... choose and decide
the future....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:59 pm

we have in the enlightenment, the Philosophes, who argued that
man was ruled by myths, habits, prejudices and superstitions..
these myths and habits and prejudices were from to such authorities as
Aristotle and Plato and the Bible and the church and the Pope.....
Would these myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions that
we have received from these authorities, stand up to a rigorous inspection?

if we examined these myth and habits and prejudices in the light on modern
science, would they pass the test of still being authentic truths, as
told to us by authorities? in other words, would we still believe in god
if we actually examined god in terms of modern thought? the answer is
clearly no....

so we then have Hume who comes along and tell us why
we cannot believe in the old myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions.... the enlightenment was working toward freeing
people from the old myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions like
believe in god and the authority of the pope... but Hume told us,
gave us method to refute such things..... his thought was
that we, by means of habit and connection, have connected
certain idea's together, but those idea's are nothing more then
habit of thought.... in the sky, we see and hear lighting, after
some time, we have learned to connect this lighting with
some idea of god....but there is no connection between lighting
and god, the connection only exists from our habit of connecting
god with the lighting...and then the authorities continued this
myth and habit to every generation as it came along....

so Hume offers us a method to continue the quest of the Philosophes,
by undercutting the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
that exists and is perpetuated by the authorities to maintain their power
and hold over us.......

so the myth that America is the greatest country on earth is perpetuated
by those who have the most to gain by that myth and habit, people
in the political world who use such myths and habits to get you
to vote for them.....and also to maintain their power over you......

so Hume and the Philosophes worked together in their quest to
rid the human race of those myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions that prevent you from being able to live free....
remove those myths and habits and prejudices and you will be free
and be able to become who you are... and now we reach our modern
quest to become who we are and find out our possibilities.....

if we are dominated by myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions,
how can we be free to freely make choices about who we are and what we
can become?

if we allow the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions to
determine who we are and what is possible, then we allow the past,
the long dead past to decide who we are and what is possible for us....

if we allow those myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions to
limit our choices into who we are and what is possible for us, then
we are no longer free agents, freely deciding who we are...
we are determined by those myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions....
in other words, if we hold to the belief in god because we haven't
freed ourselves of our childhood teaching and myths and habits
and prejudices and superstitions... we are determined.... we are no longer
free to act if we allow myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions to make our choices for us......

the argument is, how can you be free if you have your actions determined
for you by the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions in your life?
if you were taught that there is a god in childhood and you never challenged
that idea, then you are dominated, determined by an idea, you learned as a child....

that is the value of a certain saying..... It is not enough to have the
courage of our convictions, but we must have the courage for an attack upon
our convictions......

the value is to be free, to make your choices, not because you still hold
your myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions from childhood..
that isn't freedom, that is being determined, no, to be free, you must
have the courage for an attack upon your convictions...you must become
free of the myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions of childhood.....

you must grow up and create your own values, your own beliefs,
instead of holding myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
that have lingered on for over a millennium.....that have lingered on
without any thought or understanding as to what they actually mean.....
what they mean to you and what they mean to society at large....
I have stated more then once, that the belief in god is the single
most destructive thought human beings have ever had.....
this thought has created the greatest amount of disunity ever
sown and the caused the greatest number of deaths in human history......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

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