a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:53 pm

we have to create a balance in our equations.....

how do we create a balance?

do we create a system such as Spinoza and Descartes
and Hegel and Kant?

or do we answer this question of balanced like Nietzsche and
Wittgenstein?

this question of format is an important one......

our modern science tells us that any system is
going to be incomplete because it cannot enter all
the necessary facts into such a system....ALL systems
are going to be incomplete...... it is this incompleteness
that devotees of the religious, attack.. Darwin/ evolution is
a system and by definition, incomplete as is gravity
as is any scientific theory......and this is the wedge that
opponents of science attack, the incompleteness of science.....

as we cannot create a system that is complete and answers
all questions, so we cannot depend upon such systems as
democracies and communism and consumerism... as they
are themselves, incomplete....

how do we resolve our need for completeness of our systems
when they cannot be completed?

we return to the fact that the universe we live in is random,
chaotic, incomplete, unpredictable..... so we live in a
random and incomplete and unpredictable universe and
we cannot compose or create a system to solve this
basic problem of randomness or incompleteness......

so we answer the question about creating a system by
not creating a system.....we focused on particular problems
without resort to any overall system......like Nietzsche did......

we must balanced the scales without resort to a system...

a tough road but not an impossible one.........

science is a means to measure, weigh, time objects in
the universe and philosophy is a means to interpret the
results of that weighing and measuring........

so we use philosophy to interpret the "answers" of science.....
so science is not opposed to or opposite of philosophy,
science is just another aspect of the equation....
whereas science is on one side of the equation and
philosophy is the other side of the equation......

equality of equations is our goal, not necessarily
solving the equations, but balancing the equation
is the goal of philosophers.....


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 5971
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:02 pm

you have the idea of the equation....
A + B = C....1 + 1 = 2.......

and you have individualism one side of the equation
collectivism, the other side of the equation......
like good is one side of the equation and
evil is the other side of the equation...
but as we have seen good vs evil is not
two distinct and opposite thoughts, but
as we view them from a long viewpoint, they
become two sides of the same coin and then
they become one.....

individualism and collectivism are two
sides of the scale and then they become two
sides of the same coin and then they become one......
and they are no longer competitors but one and the same.....

is this the mission of philosophy?

to take two distinct and opposing answers and
make them into one and the same......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:35 pm

Have you ever had the feeling like nothing you say at all except one thing or two here and there has any value to it whatsoever?

It's like, a working clock changes to suit the time, and they're right a lot, but broken clocks are broken, still tell time accurately twice a day, reliable for that consistency at the least, but not much more.

You're a broken clock, Krop. Just another broken clock.
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:55 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:Have you ever had the feeling like nothing you say at all except one thing or two here and there has any value to it whatsoever?

It's like, a working clock changes to suit the time, and they're right a lot, but broken clocks are broken, still tell time accurately twice a day, reliable for that consistency at the least, but not much more.

You're a broken clock, Krop. Just another broken clock.


K: even if what I am is a broken clock and am right twice a day, that
I am right twice a day is more then you.. and I like those chances......

besides, I seriously doubt you understand what I am saying anyway...

I write for the future and not the past......
and you are the past.......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:09 pm

you have two types of understanding and analysis of the world,
one type is the platonic, intelligible, thinking, rational quest
for knowledge in which we think our way to knowledge

the other type is the sensible, experimental, physical,
sensory understanding of the world....

Descartes is a type of the first, platonic and rational....
Galileo is an example of the second whereas he understands
the world via experiments, sensory, physical understanding of the world....

Descartes mentally thinks about the world whereas
Galileo takes his understanding about the world from the world.....

these two types of understanding or gathering knowledge are once
again two distinct and separate theories about how one gains
knowledge about the world.... rationally or experimentally.....

but yet once again, we have two and distinct and separate ideas
that when we examine, become two sides of the same coin
and then, with time, become one and the same......


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:Have you ever had the feeling like nothing you say at all except one thing or two here and there has any value to it whatsoever?

It's like, a working clock changes to suit the time, and they're right a lot, but broken clocks are broken, still tell time accurately twice a day, reliable for that consistency at the least, but not much more.

You're a broken clock, Krop. Just another broken clock.


K: even if what I am is a broken clock and am right twice a day, that
I am right twice a day is more then you.. and I like those chances......

besides, I seriously doubt you understand what I am saying anyway...

I write for the future and not the past......
and you are the past.......

Kropotkin


I am right almost every time I open my mouth; otherwise why would I open it? I don't have the need to verbally expunge my diarrhea like you do.
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:Have you ever had the feeling like nothing you say at all except one thing or two here and there has any value to it whatsoever?

It's like, a working clock changes to suit the time, and they're right a lot, but broken clocks are broken, still tell time accurately twice a day, reliable for that consistency at the least, but not much more.

You're a broken clock, Krop. Just another broken clock.


K: even if what I am is a broken clock and am right twice a day, that
I am right twice a day is more then you.. and I like those chances......

besides, I seriously doubt you understand what I am saying anyway...

I write for the future and not the past......
and you are the past.......

Kropotkin


I am right almost every time I open my mouth; otherwise why would I open it? I don't have the need to verbally expunge my diarrhea like you do.


K: ummm, I joined ILP in 2005 or 2006 and you joined in 2014....
I have 5537 post and you have 2053 post which means I
post 1.27 times a day and you post 2.13 times a day...
you post at a far greater rate then I have ever done.....
and as far as being right, I lack the ego you have, I don't pretend
to be "right" almost every time I open my mouth... I just am looking for the
right questions and from that will lead to the truth, I don't pretend to
have the truth, I am just a modest seeker of the truth....
and there is a difference......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:28 pm

I really don't get why people like you fight so hard when all you have to do is realize that you're just another idiot. What way could I argue what you said in any truth that hasn't been seen a million times before? My own self, I've fought those ways too often to the point where I know them better than you and others do, but I'm glad for your insights on the matter so I can flesh it out fully.

I don't need to argue with you on these points. It's garbage, Kropotkin; absolute garbage. You've pushed out one, maybe two gems the entire time I've been here and believe me when I say that I've been paying attention to a lot of what goes on around me in all aspects of my existence.

Sorry if even when I'm flying by the seat of my pants, I still pull off being right more than you. Life is extremely, extremely unfair to all and it's not even trying to be equal about it, that was my own personal fight in life. Never said any different. Sure, reality cheered on the sidelines while I fought for peace and equality, but it knew the score. Doesn't give a fuck, just loves the fuck out of me.
Image

A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:40 pm

another purpose of ism's and ideologies are for the understanding
of the world.. for example, communism is another method of understanding
the world... the basic tenant of communism is that man is an economic
being (this belief is shared by capitalism BTW) and communism interprets
the world in terms of the economic... man is a consumer and producer
and that is how communism understands man.......

religion understand humans in terms of our relationship
with god.... religion interprets man the world in terms
of the religious... man is a religious creature....


History understand humans in terms of our relationship with
movements and events of the past... we are our history.....
man is a historical creature... history interprets man in terms
of the historical......

and they are all right..... we are all of the above and even
more which is why they are incomplete because they
mistake the part of man as the whole... we have yet had
a theory of the FULL human experience because such a theory,
an ism of the world is, by definition, incomplete because no theory, system,
can cover all the necessary facts needed to complete the full theory/system.....

to understand the world via science or via philosophy or via the religious
is bound to fail because it is going to be incomplete, it is a system and
systems can never be complete, but if we begin a much wider understanding
of the world in terms of more then just science or philosophy or religion,
we can come closer, not reach, but a closer to the truth understanding
of the universe and of human beings and of our relationship to the universe...

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:01 pm

modern science.. newton and Einstein have been about creating
of theory of motion... Newton laws of gravity is about motion
as is Einstein's theory of relativity, but the problem has been,
man is not just motion, but if humans are not just about motion,
then what is the human being about? thus we can conclude that
science for all its accomplishments, cannot answer the question,
what is a human being, because science is involved in the working
out the theory of motion and man is so much more then just motion.....


history is involved in the theory of motion in history...
how does the motion of events change the course of human life

the economic is about the theory of motion in regards to,
how does the production and consumption of goods, which is motion,
affect or change human beings?

science is about motion and human beings are not, so
science cannot answer any questions about what a human being
is or isn't because science focuses on motion and humans beings
are more than just motion......so science will be incomplete in
regards to that question of "what is a human being"?

as history will be incomplete as will the economic and the
religious will be incomplete because they only focus on
a small aspect of what a human being is..... we have yet
to create a science of human beings......... and even that
science will be necessarily incomplete.......but it is something
closer then what we have today.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:17 pm

if Plato and Descartes is right, then the universe
is explainable by mathematical theory, the solar system
is explainable by math and material matter is explainable by
math and time itself is explainable by math... the problem
becomes the human being.... are we explainable by math?

the answer becomes no and so we have a basic problem...
the universe is explainable by math but the human being is not..
we have an equivalent problem in modern physics...
we can explain the universe in terms of the large, solar systems
and galaxies and the motions of the universe......
and we can also explain the small, quantum mechanics can explain
the too small to see world, but no one theory can explain both...
this is what is meant by the "Grand unified theory of everything"
a theory which explains both the small and the large motions of the
universe......

how do we reconcile both the small and the large and how do
we reconcile the mathematical aspect of the universe and
the human being which is not mathematical.....

you can weight, measure, time, compare and contrast the height of human beings,
but it doesn't tell you anything about human beings....
we are more then our physical dimensions....
we do exist as physical bodies in the universe as all other matter
and have the same aspects of all matter, which is extension
and motion and duration, but you cannot classify humans purely
along those lines.......

a "GUT" of both human beings and the universe is needed...
we have the large which is the universe and we have the small,
which is us....and how do we reconcile the two?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:25 pm

in thinking about it.... we don't a unified theory of human beings
and thus we are unable to create a "GUT" between the large, the universe
and the small, human beings.... this is needed... a unified theory of human beings.....

history explains a bit of humans and economics explain a little bit and
psychology explains a bit about humans but there is no cohesive and
comprehensive theory about human beings and who we are......

this is the goal... creating a cohesive and comprehensive theory of
the human being and then we can go about creating a "GUT"

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:51 am

there is a very old saying, you don't put new wine into old wineskins....

and yet that is what we have been doing....we have new times and
new environment... the modern age..... and the modern age which is
new wine and we try to fill this new age into old wineskins which is the
old ism's and old ideologies....our new wine created by the modern era,
must have new wineskins otherwise they burst.....and part of the failure of
our times comes from the fact, we haven't created the new wineskins for
our new wine.... that is part of what we need to do in this modern age....
comes to grips with the new environment and new situation we find ourselves in.....


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:40 pm

[quote="Peter Kropotkin"]there is a very old saying, you don't put new wine into old wineskins....

and yet that is what we have been doing....we have new times and
new environment... the modern age..... and the modern age which is
new wine and we try to fill this new age into old wineskins which is the
old ism's and old ideologies....our new wine created by the modern era,
must have new wineskins otherwise they burst.....and part of the failure of
our times comes from the fact, we haven't created the new wineskins for
our new wine.... that is part of what we need to do in this modern age....
comes to grips with the new environment and new situation we find ourselves in.....


K: so when last seen, as I have noted above, I was talking about how we
have a new situation which in many ways is unprecedented....
we have the technology to destroy the world, we communicate
with ease around the world, we have gone to the moon and have computers
and have medically solved age old problems... within eyesight is my TV and my
microwave and the telephone and of course, the computer I am writing on,....
and we call this the modern age and yet, we try to fit into this modern age,
ism's and ideologies from thousands of years ago..... we have climate change and
overpopulation and pollution and what can text and ism's or ideologies from
thousands of years ago can help us deal with these crisis? I have read the Koran
and I have read the bible and I have read texts from the followers of the Buddha
and none of these can help us in our current situation..... we must create our own
current text that will help us solve or at least manage this "modern" age.....
even the declaration of Independence, which is slightly older then 200 years
old isn't current enough to help us answer our myriad of issues and problems....
we have new wine, new problems, new technologies, new issues and the old wineskins
of old ism's and ideologies and old text cannot help us deal with these current
problems and issues......we cannot look to the past to solve our current issues
and yet that is exactly the answer conservatives give... let the old text and the
old ism's and the old ideologies solve our problems and as much comfort as
they might give us, they cannot solve the problems of the modern age.....

only new ism's and new ideologies and new text can solve the new problems
and new issues of the modern age.

or to put it another way... hoping the old text will solve our problems is
like expecting a manual, a text, on fixing a horse drawn carriage will help us
fix a 2017 car....I can assure you a text on fixing a horse drawn carriage will
not fix anything right now except how to fix a horse drawn carriage and frankly
they are not that many horse drawn carriages floating around right now....

so why would you expect a text from 2000 years ago, the bible, fix
anything going on right now? why would you expect words from 1500 years
ago fix anything right now, Islam? No, you have to create new words and new
texts and new ism's and ideologies to solve our current problems and issues....

so in any problem, we have to find the problem before we can solve the
problem... and this is where we are right now, attempting to discover
what is the problem and then and only then, can we begin to craft
a solution to our many problems and issues.....

so, what do you think the problem is?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Some Guy in History » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:26 pm



Communism is simply a form of government that tried to be about community; thus 'commune-ism'. Capitalism centers around Capital; money, income. These are simple root-word terms that despite what people have twisted the definitions of, can still be traced back to their roots.

Some men are religious and are intertwined with God, others aren't and are still intertwined with the being that is known as God to the religious.

These are simple matters, not vaguenesses that we can never figure out or work out. And, at the point of it all existing alongside each other already, all the varying systems and subsystems of belief and government, intertwined with each other like so much barbed wire and roses, what else can be said but that everybody and everyone is right and only partially right and mostly wrong because the divisions in society have kept them from being able to come together for very good reasons up to this point and we do need each other to fill in the gaps as we go for each other, every path in life is worth something in that regard, whether living or dead.



Consider for the moment the common ant. What freedom do you think most ants of a colony have when the queens pheromones control the majority of them and those that they don't control, control the queen to keep them all in place. In other ant colonies, there is no central queen ant and they are each individual to an extent. The variety of any being is worthy of note in comparison to humanity. Another tie-in to what I said about understanding Aristotle and his decisions by looking at the world around us that exists as we exists. for all its varied changes, it remains seemingly similar to frightening degree and surely, as has been said by the Beatles:

I look at the world and I notice it's turning
While my guitar gently weeps
With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps


And, it is a slow universal learning to get everything up to the same page and the same chapter after realizing that we're all reading from same book in different perceptions and perspectives.

Think I find pride and ego in being what these words flow through? I'm just another tie that binds, another bridge to bridge the gaps and I have to weather being burnt, destroyed, rebuilt to suit others at any given notice at the drop of a hat some times just on whim alone without assurance that it means anything at all. I have my own faith and loyalty and trust tested beyond what is obvious and evident to the outside observer.

If I'm tough on you at all, know that I'm the same tough asshole to everyone, myself included and I'm tough on you because I see potential, I see growth; otherwise I wouldn't bother. I'd just walk the fuck away.
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:12 pm

as I continue my quest to reform philosophy, I am
now into the modern age......I am just beginning in my
readings about Descartes... I have already mentioned some
aspects of him... how his "method" was a purely mental one...
He sat in his chair and contemplated the universe...
his method was purely abstract and intellectual.......

in his time, Descartes was thought of as a mathematician who
had metaphysical thoughts... he was not thought of as
a philosopher.... in fact, his chosen career was as a military
engineer and he was at several battles......as he came from wealth,
he "retired" from this and was able to afford to sit in his chair and
contemplate the universe.... but that is part of the problem with
Descartes... he was all theory and theory definitely has its place, but
he wasn't about the other side of the equation which is action....
he didn't do experiments and he didn't create any philosophy that
he or anyone was able to do physically, it was all mental.....

the great loss on his life was his daughter who was born out of wedlock
and died around the age of 5 or 6..........as far as I know, Descartes was
never married and here is another philosopher who wasn't married......
this is an interesting trend among philosophers...of the major philosophers
I can think of only one who was married and that was Socrates......
but I don't know about later philosophers like Heidegger or Husserl or Camus...
an interesting research topic......anyway.........

as I wade into Descartes, I shall be on the lookout for idea's that
can not only be mental but be about living life.. for philosophy must
be about life and living it... philosophy itself is about a way of life
and that is how the Greeks thought about it... it wasn't just
a game or a academic idea, but something that is a way of life
and the Christians took this idea from the Greeks......
that Christianity isn't an academic theory but a way of life...
and that is something that is missing from philosophy....
it is too academic, not enough about a way of life.... this is
how we live our life... modern philosophy doesn't do that..
it creates theoretical meanings of life and doesn't approach
the heart of living which is about a way of life and how do we live....

Descartes is just another example of the theory of life, but not
the action of life.... how are we to live?... you won't find that
in Descartes.....and his philosophy is lacking because of that.....


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:56 pm

in doing some back research about Descartes and knowledge,
I was investigating Augustine and I came across something I noted
while studying Augustine but didn't make a connection until now.....

For Augustine, he wonders what is the point of, the purpose of
searching for the truth!.... is knowledge useful in of itself or
does knowledge need to do something to be useful......

In my own research over these many years, I followed my quest
for knowledge to do something with it... it wasn't just for knowledge itself
that I was searching for... what is the point of gaining knowledge??????

and then I realized that the point of knowledge is not only for itself but
it is to be used as a way of life.....why pursue knowledge if you don't
"do" something with it? my original thinking was to make use of knowledge
of create a way of life for myself.... how to live.. what is the meaning of life
in regards to creating a way of life? now the interesting thing about knowledge
is that you don't often realize its importance until later when suddenly,
you see what the value of that knowledge is to you personally......

a lightbulb pops over one's head and you say, OHHHHHHHH, I get it now
whereas you have had that information/knowledge for many, many years
and now suddenly you see the value of that knowledge......that has happened
to me over the years....knowledge or information that I have had suddenly
has purpose or meaning or value.......

so what do the pursuit of knowledge/information mean to you...
what is its purpose to you? what is its value for you?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:32 pm

A word I have been coming across lately has been
transformation......

the dictionary says: Transformation....1. To change the form of or appearance of
2. To change the condition, character, or function of...

Now the word, transformation suggest that the transforming is not
an act that is a routine transformation such as growth that everyone has..
transformation is not a something that happens to everyone....
Transformation is often a event or something that occurs that
by its nature, transform someone.....

my search into philosophy occurred when I was reading a book that
suggested that climate changed people.... I was 12 or 13 and I thought
the idea's were wrong but I didn't know in what way the idea's were wrong.....
I had to do the research to find out how the book was wrong.....
and that in time lead me to philosophy.......

the book and to save my life, I can't tell you the title.....
created a transformation in my life but for any number of people
who read the book, it didn't create a transformation.....
transformations are personal events....
a religious transformation would follow along these lines.....

so have you had a transformation type of event?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:07 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:A word I have been coming across lately has been
transformation......

the dictionary says: Transformation....1. To change the form of or appearance of
2. To change the condition, character, or function of...

Now the word, transformation suggest that the transforming is not
an act that is a routine transformation such as growth that everyone has..
transformation is not a something that happens to everyone....
Transformation is often a event or something that occurs that
by its nature, transform someone.....

my search into philosophy occurred when I was reading a book that
suggested that climate changed people.... I was 12 or 13 and I thought
the idea's were wrong but I didn't know in what way the idea's were wrong.....
I had to do the research to find out how the book was wrong.....
and that in time lead me to philosophy.......

the book and to save my life, I can't tell you the title.....
created a transformation in my life but for any number of people
who read the book, it didn't create a transformation.....
transformations are personal events....
a religious transformation would follow along these lines.....

so have you had a transformation type of event?

Kropotkin


Peter ... do you consider the notions 'transformation' and 'metamorphosis' synonymous?

metamorphosis.jpg
metamorphosis.jpg (6.37 KiB) Viewed 465 times
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:40 am

reflecting on these two notions for a few minutes ...

transform conjures up the image of a shape-shifter

morph suggests uncconcsious involvement in a natural growth cycle.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:07 am

morph suggests uncconcsious involvement in a natural growth cycle.


for me, feels intuitively comfortable at both the individual level and the species level

and you?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:44 am

use the words in a sentence and you get a better sense of the
words......


"when the Aliens landed on earth, that was a transformational event"

you couldn't use or say, metamorphosis...

"when the Aliens landed on earth, that was a metamorphosis event"

metamorphosis does imply natural.... whereas, transformational implies
something that is not natural.... that comes from something that is not natural....

reading that book, was a transformational event... which has happened to me...
I have read some books that were transformational for me.....
changed my life I would say.... in ways I am still working out...

the reason I even bring this up to stretch out people's thinking.....
people get lock into a loop and cannot break out.....

PS.... just in the name of completeness.. the books that have transformed my life
in no particular order....

The education of Henry Adams: by Henry Adams.....
Report to Greco: by Nikos Kazantzakis.......
Irrational man: By William Barrett.....

I could add others but these three books are the main non fiction books
that have changed my life....

the fictional books that have changed my life......

First love: By Turgenev
Winesburg Ohio: Sherwood Anderson
When worlds collide
after worlds collide: By Wylie and Balmer.....
St Petersburg: Bly......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:48 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:"when the Aliens landed on earth, that was a transformational event"


yeah ... truly was ... do remember what day that was. :-)

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I have read some books that were transformational for me.....
changed my life I would say.... in ways I am still working out...


me too Peter :-)

please don't think me unduly argumentative ...

I don't believe what the "other" writes ... in books, poems, song lyrics and so on ... is part of me ... part of my consciousness.

Yet I DO believe that what the "other" writes ... in books, poems, song lyrics and so on ... when confirmed by my personal experience ... becomes a marker on my personal metamorphosis of consciousness.

and yes ... seems I remember forever these particular 'markers'.

Let me share 3 examples:

Confessions .... by Augustine

Classic of the Dao ... by Wang Keping

The Soul's Code: In Search of Character and Calling ... by James Hillman
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:47 pm

not to ignore tom, but I have different fish to fry today.....

I was thinking about this last night.. how are we to understand
our modern political and social world?

Upon what do we build our modern world and I got to thinking......

the political and social system we have should mirror our lives....
in other words, we should have a political system that reflect who we are
and we should have a social system that reflects who we are....

and who are we?

we are life and think about the story of life......

what is the progress of life?

life however it began, began small, one cell which turned into two cells
and then 4 and then 8 cells... life is the creation of order...random individual
cells unite and grow... this thing called life began small, individually and
then organized itself into larger and more complex systems....
millions of years pass before life becomes something larger then
a small clump of cells....with each generation, life becomes something that
is slightly larger and more organized.....life is about taking disorder and
creating order....from the beginning of the very small and disorganized to
the larger and more organized... with each step, life grew and became more
efficient and more organized....billions of years pass and life becomes swimming
creatures and then land animals and then dinosaurs, with each step,
life is becoming larger and more organized and more efficient......
one thing to note is at times, we have what are called extinction events in which
life becomes more disorderly and less efficient, less organized....but life is
resilient and recovers and becomes more efficient and more organized until
the next extinction event and the cycle occurs all over again....

now let us follow the human story.... we think about how human began and
we see that the human being story follows, mirrors the story of life.....
we don't how hominids got their start... but we can believe that they
started small, a few maybe or maybe even just one, we cannot know
how the story of the hominids began....but we closely follow the story
of life.. with each generation, we slowly grew larger and more efficient
and more organized...this task from animal to human took millions of years
and we had speed bumps along the way... at times, the human story came very
close to ending...these extinction events almost wiped out human beings....
(don't think of these extinction events like the meteor that wiped out the
dinosaur, think of them like events like the fall of Rome, whereas we went
from a very organized and efficient organization like Rome, to the middle
ages which wasn't organized or efficient or larger...we went from
order to increased disordered and that is the best way to think of our
extinction events, going from order to disordered and the Renaissance
began our return to order from disorder)

now like life, we went from a few to some to many to millions...
the trip we took as humans is the same trip as life took.....
we followed the template of life in becoming human beings....
the key factor is this idea that we went from a few isolated hominids
to the family, this increase in order help hominids to survive......
the key to survival of humans is the exact same key life used to survive
and that is becoming more organized, more a collective of atoms, a collective
of human beings... they are one and the same...at each stage, life and human
beings grew and became more organized and more efficient....the human being
story is one of greater and greater collectivization... just like life....
we went from one? to a few to many to millions, just like life and at each
step we become more organized and more efficient and more in number.....
we humans have a shared history, one where we grew larger and more
efficient and more organized.....just like life....the human story is one
where at each step of the way, we organized into larger and larger groups....
the family, to small groups, to larger groups and after hundred of thousands of
years, small villages and then larger cities and then the city/state... at each increase
in population, we found we had to organized ourselves more and more efficiently
to better be able to handle the greater increase of human beings....and at each
step, we became more and more collectivized....we have grown in size and number
in the groups we belong to....so to contrast and compare, the republican idea
of civilization of being small groups or individuals doesn't match with
the record of life or of the human story....the conservative yearns for
a human story of small villages and individuals whereas the story of human beings
is one of increase collection of human being all growing from disorder to order...
think of the wild west of America gradually becoming civilized... from disorder to order.....
with each step in the increased population, the system must grow and increase
and adapt to each person who moved into the west... the wild west no longer
exists because it can't.. the increase in population made the wild west become
organized, from disorder to order.. the story of life and the story of the human being....
the conservative champion the individual and the small family but the fact is,
that story is past history....just as life grew beyond the small and few, human
beings grew into larger and larger organizations and we must grow into large
systems and organizations because of our numbers.... we cannot keep
our organization or system going on 16 or 17 century governmental
principles, those idea's were made for a smaller number of people
and worked for a smaller number of people.....

the future must be one of socialism and communism because
of the numbers of people who exist.....
and because the story of human beings is one of going from
the one to a few to many to billions and at each stage, we
must become more efficient and more organized.....
to remain organized, we cannot waste energy on the individual
trying to gain wealth, our energy must be focused on
the group, the collective, the society.....the idea of rugged
individualism no longer can exist because we are too large for it....
the myth of the one man controlling his destiny no longer exists
because we are and always have been a collection of beings who
to survive, must unite and combine our resources and energies....
this is the path of life and this is the past of the human being....
we exist together or fail alone.....this is the great truth of human
existence, we exist together and in a organized groups that
grow larger and larger as we grow in numbers.....

our social and political systems must reflect who we are and
we are a social, a collective species.... we exist together because
that is how we have been since the beginning of time...
all for one and one for all... that is the true human saying...
because it reflects the history of the human being....

we shall have a global world organization that is in charge
of everything and that is as certain as the sun will rise tomorrow
because as we grow in numbers, we must increase in organization
and efficiency in order to maintain our current efficiency...
we must always use energy to maintain our current level of
organization because the name of the game is to increase order...
failure to increase order means we become more disordered..
order to disorder or disordered to order is the only thing
that matters in existence.....or said another way....
we have a system and that system takes energy and the larger
the system, the more energy it takes to maintain that system,
so no system can remain the same, it either grows and becomes
more ordered or it becomes smaller and becomes disordered.....
.....

this a lot to take in and explains many, many things about human existence
that didn't make sense before, but the bottom line is simple,
in order to survive as human beings, we must increase our energy
and we must increase in our level of order or we shall have disorder
and this increase of disorder is what destroyed civilizations like Rome....

this overall idea explains why we cannot resort to the GOP idea of
smaller is better because smaller increases the amount of disorder
in human existence because the number of human shall increase and
with every increase, we must use greater amount of energy to just
maintain the current level of order in society..... we cannot allow
the government to drown in the bathtub as suggested by some
because that will increase the disorder in society to such a point,
that we shall shortly have an extinction event for America and
become just as disordered as Rome and fall...... we have only one
way out and that is to increase our energy and increase our level
of order or we fall as a society.......

all of this explains why the democrats have the answer for the future
and the GOP doesn't.... because we can only survive by the idea's that
increase our order and the only party that does that is the democratic party....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:34 pm

existence requires two and only two choices....
either you increase your order or you increase you disorder.....

there are no other options....

let us think about this.....

we have a car and a car takes resources to operate..
gas, oil, water, among other resources to maintain the car....
if you have one person, you don't need a big car, you can get
by with a small car.. you don't many resources to keep a small car
going....3 gallons fill up and you are good to go for the month...

let us say, you get a wife.... now the small car is a little less
useful because with two people, you need more room...
but you can manage with a small car with two people....

let us say, you become a dad of three... a small car becomes
impractical, you can't fit 5 into a small car, you need a bigger car....

so you get a midsize car or a minivan...the problem becomes a larger
car requires more resources, you can't fill up a larger car with 3 gallons
and hope to get anywhere, so now you need 15 gallons of gas to fill
up your car and an increase in oil and water, a larger car requires more
resources...

let us say, you have 8 people to move around.... a small car is really
out of the question and a minivan is no longer an option, so you get
a larger van, one that holds 8 people and once again, you have increase
resources usage....you really can't fill up with the 3 gallons you once did
and even 15 gallons no longer makes it... you have to fill up with 30 gallons
now and an even greater amount of oil and water and so on....

with the larger number of people, the larger car you must get and
the greater amount of resources you use to just maintain that car...

now think of government as that car... the larger number of people
the larger the car, the larger the government......

the greater number of people, the greater the size of government..
you are either going to increase order or you are going to increase disorder...
those are your only choices....so to increase order, you must
increase the size of government.....to increase disorder, you
can just maintain the size of government and you will by
having a increase population, greater increase of disorder...
so the GOP idea to decrease the size of government will fail
because of the increase number of people which requires
an increase size of government......so the GOP call for
less taxes is really just a call to disorder and enough disorder
and we collapse just like the Roman empire......so the GOP
call for less taxes is really a call for the dissolution of AMERICA...

we either grow for increase order or we go small and a greater increase
of disorder because of the number of people we have...... the only
path forward is to increase order and that is only possible
with this idea of greater and greater use of government and
greater collectivism... that is the only path into the future....
any other path that leads to greater disorder and that is bad......


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

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