what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Amorphos » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:34 am

a certain amount of times, I agree not getting killed will make one stronger. yet we are humans not bears or lions, even the strongest people get broken down by successive misfortune, or even a single terrible instance.

this get on my nerves because people expect too much, they say 'oh its just psycholigical' but no, nothing is just that. when things break you down in life [and they do that to everyone] that's real physical neurons which correlate with every cell in the body, which in turn produce hormonal reactions and the brain produces chemicals accordingly. this is all real shit not some pretend philosophy written by an idiot.
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:35 pm

perhaps you could define what being strong is?


Being able to overcome a resistance? I think it's pretty obvious what it means to be strong. Either you push against something or the thing pushes against you.

i expect that [certainly in my experience] intellectuals dont majoritively carry guns, not go around acting the tough guy nor cause trouble. ...but big tough guys do!

so in short, the 'strong' are just the pain in the arse idiots who cause all the trouble in the world.


They cause trouble only if you are weak.

wouldnt the world be a better place if people didnt act like that?


The world would be a better place if you were a stronger person who could win against those big tough guys. Certainly, that's what you desire! But without deifying strength you will never achieve such a thing. On the contrary!

(actually, that's not really true! you can destroy them through weakness i.e. hypocrisy, but that's a story for another time.)
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Amorphos » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:36 pm

Magnus

I prefer to take the liminal position [rather than pushing or being pushed]. Point is that it doesn't [imho] ever stop at not being pushed, the 'strong' mostly end up doing the pushing.

The strong don't only cause trouble if you are weak, as you tend to get more than one party thinking they are strong – hence wars/trouble.

I don't desire to be strong and neither am I weak, you are making assumptions upon your own experience, the fears which made you want to be the strong guy in the first place.

wisdom = balance, no?
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby The Idiot » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:45 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Blurry wrote:Strength is not merely a physical attribute.


Is there anything beyond physics?


Do you mean is there anything beyond interpreting phenomena/existence via the language of physics? Well yes, of course. One may start anywhere, say by interpreting the language of life through something as ordinary as suffering, or orgasming, or through the language of relief one feels while taking a solid shit, or what have you.
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Moreno » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:43 am

Amorphos wrote:"what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - does it?

prisons and diseases make you weaker for a start, and in my experience the things which make you stronger, equally make you weaker or leaves one wanting [e.g. for the lack of].

i've had my fair share of crap, as i suppose we all do. i couldnt put all that meaning into words, but i feel equally stronger and weaker for life's experience.

what doesnt kill you makes you wiser - would be truer imho.
Head injury, causes damage, might make you less wise, but did not kill you.

I see plenty of people, who do not suffer brain injuries, who do not get wiser or stronger or better in any way when they go through crises or adversity.
And everyone has a limit.

It is not a bad idea to see if one can gain wisdom, strength, insight when encountering something rough. AS long as one does not sit around chastizing oneself for not managing this, especially in the early stages. But like a lot of generalizations and universalizations, that idea and even your spin on it are limited.
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:26 pm

The strong don't only cause trouble if you are weak


Yes, that's the only way a trouble can be caused. If you are strong, you experience no trouble. Why? Well, because you are strong. That's what it means to be strong.

I don't desire to be strong and neither am I weak


You are indeed weak for the task at hand. Otherwise, you wouldn't be experiencing any trouble.

And you do desire to be strong. You're merely denying it, which is another expression of desire for strength.

the fears which made you want to be the strong guy in the first place


One has no choice in the matter. One simply desires to be strong, consciously or unconsciously, and that's the end of it. Everything else is hypocrisy which is itself, as I've already said, another expression of strength.
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:35 pm

There is, however, such a thing as relative strength and general strength. For example, a bee can kill me with its sting, but that doesn't mean the bee is stronger than I am IN GENERAL. It simply means that it is stronger in this one respect which it took advantage of. This is how the generally weak can dominate the generally strong: by exploiting their weaknesses to the fullest. The point here is that, no matter how strong you are, your weakness is still your weakness and if you don't do something about it, you'll be dominated by the generally weak.
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Interesting points were made.

Fixed Cross wrote:
Stuart wrote:"What doesn't kill you makes you stranger." - LaughingMan

That's really good.

Camus wrote:Nietzsche: "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
Yes, but....
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:38 pm

Fixed Cross


"What makes me wiser makes me stronger" is definitely befitting of a philosopher and not as much of a soldier, a clown, a nuclear scientist or any other terrain for which a certain disdain for consequence is required.


A clown??????????????????? lol

Is a philosopher any less of a human being and an individual that he cannot have a certain distain for consequences? You seem to be painting him as far as I am concerned as a coward.

As far as those others go, couldn't you say that because of what they do, their walk of life, they would necessarily be more careful, wiser? Although they wouldn't have to be. But in those walks of life, they might necessarily be.
I think it is just a question of who the individual is.

Why do you usually or at least seemingly paint the philosopher as some kind of a god, Jakob and put him on a pedestal far above the rest? :evilfun:
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What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Jakob » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:01 pm

Wait... lol. First explain yourself more coherently. Do you deny philosophy must have an eye for consequence or do you simply find realism cowardly?
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Re: what doesnt kill you makes you wiser, not stronger?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:36 pm

Interjection please .It may presuppose a choice but then again they may not be exclusive, and it depends on the context, or the level or the point of view.

Sorry arc and fixed for butting in, but was compelled by the condition. Carry on.
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