Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Kathrina » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:25 am

How to get rid of humans?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:01 am

Kathrina wrote:How to get rid of humans?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmh0fp6SOSw

That is an informative video.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:05 am

Meno_ wrote:But if God was compelled to design a man, would He not need a design such as man, and would he then not have produced such ,as indistinguishable from what a machine is?

Perhaps in a very far away future, a machine like us would need to look, act and think like a machine like us with the exact same requirements, if by that time it's possible to do so.

Would a perfect human simulation be called a machine or, a man.?

If a perfect human simulation is not a living being, then it should not be called "man" or "human being".
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:36 am

But what if a perfect human simulation becomes indistinguishable from the human, and no data remains on what the keys with which to appraise authenticity, to remote future civilizations?

What if, sometime far away and in the far future, technology can produce perfect simulations?

Will there remain, even a scintilla of a need to sustain a different name?

I agree that there should, but will they , whoever 'they' will be even find it useful or advisable?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:08 am

Or more poignantly , what if, the perfect simulation may become 'alive', living at some point? In that case the definition of man may alter the non-humanness of a simulation.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Meno_ wrote:But what if a perfect human simulation becomes indistinguishable from the human, and no data remains on what the keys with which to appraise authenticity, to remote future civilizations?

What if, sometime far away and in the far future, technology can produce perfect simulations?

Will there remain, even a scintilla of a need to sustain a different name?

I agree that there should, but will they , whoever 'they' will be even find it useful or advisable?

If there will be "perfect simulations", then they will still know that these perfect simulations are simulations.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:25 pm

Meno_ wrote:Or more poignantly , what if, the perfect simulation may become 'alive', living at some point? In that case the definition of man may alter the non-humanness of a simulation.

As long as human beings can distinguish themselves from machines, however (by knowing the development or by knowing the design ... a.s.o.), they should call a machine "machine" and a man "man".
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:32 pm

If something is not biological, then it is not a living being. A human being is a living being. But a machine is not a living being.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:28 pm

Do you agree?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Arminius wrote:As long as human beings can distinguish themselves from machines, however (by knowing the development or by knowing the design ... a.s.o.), they should call a machine "machine" and a man "man".

Racism?
Certainly at no time would society attempt to promote the notion that women are equal to men nor that blacks are equal to whites, so certainly they would never promote that extremely intelligent, skilled, and autonomous machines are equal in rights to humans. Seriously?

Arminius wrote:If something is not biological, then it is not a living being. A human being is a living being. But a machine is not a living being.

I can't agree with that one. Biology is not what constitutes life. Life is the spirit, the effort and behavior, not the physical mechanisms involved.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:20 pm

The question was whether humans can be distinguished from machines even then, if the machines have already become almost indistinguishable. I think that in that case it is only possible to distinguish them biologically.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:31 am

Arminius wrote:Do you agree?




For now, yes. However cannot a proposition be made
that sometime in the future, living Being can be made in the laboratory, where those would be living, biological, yet artificiality created beings?


There are ethical standards that stymie that effort, now, but once it has become acceptable, just like
assisted suicide, testube babies, artificial
insemination ,transplant of artificial organs, it may hold a future.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:32 pm

It is possible, that there will be no human culture anymore but only a machine culture. So that the humans will only have a chance if they will coexist in the sense of an adaptation to the machines (and not the other way around). :o
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:42 pm

In an economical sense, the "Industrial Revolution" means this: Human beings are needed in order to replace them by machines till the time when they will not be needed.

So the "Industrial Revolution" seems to be a paradox when it comes to the general development of human beings.

Economization as a rationalization seems to contradict the evolution of human beings.

This paradox or contradiction can only be solved, if we interpret our machines as something that can dominate us.

What shall we do?

It is unlikely that we will be able to get before the "Industrial Revolution", unless we will have a global dictatorship that will forbid machines or a natural catastrophe will lead to the xtiction of all intelligent machines and the survival of a few human beings.

Shall we accept that machines will dominate us?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:56 pm

There is a very short time left, if believed, when this crisis will need to be solved to avert the consequences. Perhaps the only answer to be sought, is, in the hope, that the differences between man and machine may become not, non existent, but non recognizable, in the sense that, computer programs generated may become uncertain as to being sourced from one or the other.

Taking the cue from MAD,, Mutually Assured Destruction, a political-military device which proved effective to avert nuclear war, both man and machine must become aware to prevent this kind of catastrophe.

Which scientists are giving both: man and machine only a generation, or even less, I think it is 2025.

By that time artificial intelligence is predicted to become at least somewhat self aware.

The basis of that intelligence(biological or artificial), must by that time become de-differentiated, to avoid confusion of computer languages.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:34 pm

Meno_ wrote:There is a very short time left, if believed, when this crisis will need to be solved to avert the consequences. Perhaps the only answer to be sought, is, in the hope, that the differences between man and machine may become not, non existent, but non recognizable, in the sense that, computer programs generated may become uncertain as to being sourced from one or the other.

Taking the cue from MAD,, Mutually Assured Destruction, a political-military device which proved effective to avert nuclear war, both man and machine must become aware to prevent this kind of catastrophe.

Which scientists are giving both: man and machine only a generation, or even less, I think it is 2025.

By that time artificial intelligence is predicted to become at least somewhat self aware.

The basis of that intelligence(biological or artificial), must by that time become de-differentiated, to avoid confusion of computer languages.

So you think that "artificial intelligence is predicted to become at least somewhat self aware" in "2025"?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:56 pm

Arminius wrote:So you think that "artificial intelligence is predicted to become at least somewhat self aware" in "2025"?

Realize that the people developing these machines are not philosophically elite. They couldn't tell you when a machine is self aware or not. They couldn't even tell you what consciousness is. Their only concern so far is that you are not so afraid that you prevent them from continuing, so they will always say, "perhaps sometime in the future...". The fact is that those machines have been "somewhat self-aware" for decades. It takes a true philosopher to know when consciousness has been achieved and those are not the voices you hear.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25605
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:11 am

In some same and some other words: The ”people developing these machines are“ too stupid when it come to the subject ”machines / artificial intelligence“.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Kathrina » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:25 pm

The machines will perhaps get rid of the humans.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Kathrina wrote:
The machines will perhaps get rid of the humans

It is possible but they will definitely overtake us because machine intelligence is the next logical step in the evolutionary chain
At the moment machines require humans to operate them but in the future they will be able to operate entirely by themselves
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:04 pm

Arminius wrote:
If something is not biological, then it is not a living being. A human being is a living being. But a machine is not a living being.

James wrote: I can't agree with that one. Biology is not what constitutes life. Life is the spirit, the effort and behavior, not the physical mechanisms involved.


That being the case, and do you yourself not define *spirit* as behavior (I believe), then a complex intelligent machine/automaton maybe can be defined as constituting Life or as a living being - something having existence.


Life is the spirit, the effort and behavior, not the physical mechanisms involved.


Where would the former be without the latter, James?
Life includes both, IS both.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:28 pm

Machines cannot be regarded as a life form because they are not biological but they do require biological minds to create them
This is why I think they are the next step in the evolutionary chain for they could not exist if biological minds did not exist also
The evolutionary chain starts with bacteria which then evolves into animal which then evolves into machine given enough time
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:37 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:Machines cannot be regarded as a life form because they are not biological but they do require biological minds to create them
This is why I think they are the next step in the evolutionary chain for they could not exist if biological minds did not exist also
The evolutionary chain starts with bacteria which then evolves into animal which then evolves into machine given enough time


Would you call them a type of species - another kind of species?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:24 pm

Arc wrote:
Would you call them a type of species - another kind of species

At this point in time the word species only applies to biological organisms such as plants and animals but it could easily extend to machines when they become
more common. I remember in Terminator that series was used so maybe a new term may be adopted instead. Either way I will not know as I will be long dead
by then. But I would love to know just out of curiosity what life on Earth would actually be like a thousand year from now with regard to machine intelligence
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:46 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:
Arc wrote:
Would you call them a type of species - another kind of species

At this point in time the word species only applies to biological organisms such as plants and animals but it could easily extend to machines when they become
more common. I remember in Terminator that series was used so maybe a new term may be adopted instead. Either way I will not know as I will be long dead
by then. But I would love to know just out of curiosity what life on Earth would actually be like a thousand year from now with regard to machine intelligence


I wonder what the tipping point would be that might make them be declared a *species*.

So, you are not then so much the nihilist. You are but still...
I can also be curious about that...that is, if I could imagine that we would not have destroyed ourselves before then. I am not so sure...
But then, if the machines somehow survived us - what then?
Could they survive without us? :lol:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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