Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby skakos » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:25 pm

Uccisore wrote:It's worth pointing out that animals don't care about their own species- preserving the existence of a species is something we do for ourselves, or because of some higher moral order that we are aware of and they are not.


Indeed. And this is key here - we HUMANS ARE HIGHLY ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY as a species... 8)
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby James S Saint » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:36 pm

skakos wrote:And this is key here - we HUMANS ARE HIGHLY ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY as a species... 8)

Yep.
And "we humans" want to control evolution to our own design.
Of course, evolution only works when you try to resist it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:55 pm

Indeed. And this is key here - we HUMANS ARE HIGHLY ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY as a species... 8)
So what?
Why not be anti-evolutionary? Whatever anti-evolutionary means.

Is medicine anti-evolutionary?

Is keeping cats and dogs, as pets, anti-evolutionary?

Houseplants? Indoor plumbing? The internet?

What are we talking about here?
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby anon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:34 pm

Kriswest wrote:Sure to a point but, earthquakes, volcanoes , the position of earth changing on it's axis, the moon coming closer or farther, distance from the sun, solar flares and the odd large meteor all affect life and deaths. We are part of a volatile system, not the whole.

Right, but we affect things pretty dramatically, because we're pretty powerful. We're like a volcano with a mind. So, since we are pretty good at screwing things up, we are also capable of fixing things. That's the theory anyway - I'm both somewhat hopeful and at the same time very skeptical that we are able to know what to do.
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby anon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:42 pm

phyllo wrote:
Indeed. And this is key here - we HUMANS ARE HIGHLY ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY as a species... 8)
So what?
Why not be anti-evolutionary? Whatever anti-evolutionary means.

Is medicine anti-evolutionary?

Is keeping cats and dogs, as pets, anti-evolutionary?

Houseplants? Indoor plumbing? The internet?

What are we talking about here?

Speaking for myself only, we're talking about whether or not we have the capacity to recognize what a healthy ecosystem looks like and the ability to do something positive in that regard - and if "playing God" is a good or bad thing. I'm not sure what Skakos and others mean by "anti-evolutionary" but the biological/physical world we inhabit has co-evolved over millions of years, despite whatever cataclysmic events have occurred. The earth is like a living body in a way. We being part of that body, we recognize that killing off the things that hurt or annoy us (wolves, mosquitoes, whatever) is short-sighted. We've gone so far with that project that we're starting to think about "the environment" for our own sake, let alone for the sake of other species.

Obviously, the desires of humans don't necessarily align with the good of other species. Medicine, for instance. Indoor plumbing. So we make choices - we weigh things.
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby skakos » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:53 pm

phyllo wrote:
Indeed. And this is key here - we HUMANS ARE HIGHLY ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY as a species... 8)
So what?
Why not be anti-evolutionary? Whatever anti-evolutionary means.

Is medicine anti-evolutionary?

Is keeping cats and dogs, as pets, anti-evolutionary?

Houseplants? Indoor plumbing? The internet?

What are we talking about here?


Yes, all these things are "anti-evolutionary".
What does this mean for you?
~ ἔστι γὰρ εἶναι, μηδὲν δ΄ οὐκ ἔστιν

The Limits of Science http://harmonia-philosophica.blogspot.gr/2010/08/limits-of-science.html
Religion and Science Unification http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/religion-and-science-unification/
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby Kriswest » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:30 pm

How are they anti evolutionary?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Ecology? Kill owls to save... owls ?!

Postby Sauwelios » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:02 pm

skakos wrote:Image

To save the endangered northern spotted owl, biologists have begun killing barred owls, a more widespread and aggressive bird that has invaded the former species' territories in the U.S. Northwest. Once a barred owl enters a spotted owl's range, it can out-compete it for food by being less picky and often aggressively kicks it out of its roost by repeatedly harassing and even "body-slamming" it.

But killing owls--even an aggressive intruder--represents a moral challenge for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS). On the one hand, killing these large birds seems wrong to many, but that agency is also required by law to protect spotted owls, which are listed as "threatened" under the Endangered Species Act. [http://www.popsci.com/article/science/killing-one-owl-save-another-ruffles-feathers?dom=PSC&loc=recent&lnk=1&con=killing-one-owl-to-save-another-ruffles-feathers]

Ecology is about balance. And balance dictates that something has to die in order for something else to live. We like to play God and decide which species is to live and which is to die. We are against evolution. We are against balance. And we will pay the price...

PS. And no, I did not even refer to the fact that we call two owls as "different species"... Hehehe...


I haven't read any of the replies, so this may have already been said. _Human beings and their foolish ideas are part of the environment of those owls._ So we cannot be against evolution. Evolution also happens through us and in us. If we save the panda from extinction due to its "cuddlability", that too is evolution. If we hunt the tiger to extinction due to the danger it represents to human life and the demand for its "beautiful" skin, that too is evolution. The folly is in thinking we can ever transcend evolution, ever conquer nature. As I wrote last year:

"It's necessary to affirm eternal return because the only way to assign binding limits to modernity's conquest of nature is, paradoxically, to will its eternal return. After all, anything less than its absolute affirmation would be a saying Nay against it, and thereby itself a call to conquer nature: for modernity's conquest of nature arises 'naturally' from the nature of human herd animals. Indeed, modernity's conquest of nature is essentially the conquest of the nature of nature, which is conquest... A 'war to end all wars'!" (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/human_superhuman/conversations/messages/537)
"Someone may object that the successful revolt against the universal and homogeneous state could have no other effect than that the identical historical process which has led from the primitive horde to the final state will be repeated. But would such a repetition of the process--a new lease of life for man's humanity--not be preferable to the indefinite continuation of the inhuman end? Do we not enjoy every spring although we know the cycle of the seasons, although we know that winter will come again?" (Leo Strauss, "Restatement on Xenophon's Hiero".)
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