Humpty wrote:i don't think you're trying to understand me, so you're subject to your criticism of me as well. if you say i shouldn't dismiss his ideas without trying to understand it, then you should treat me the same, unless you're a hypocrite of course. so try to understand where i'm coming from, and explain to me why i'm wrong.
Only_Humean wrote:I have already tried: I think you're being overly literal and rigid in your interpretation of what the question means and ignoring why it's asked (although not how it's asked ). It's not a formal logic class.
Humpty wrote:that's not an explanation of why i'm wrong. that's an explanation of why i might be wrong. i'm not asking for you to explain to me why i might be wrong, i'm asking for you to explain to me specifically why i am wrong.
it's like if we did a math test, and you were the teacher and i was the student, and i put a wrong answer and you marked it wrong, and then i asked you to explain to me why it's wrong, but instead of explaining the correct way to do the question, you told me, "oh you're wrong probably because you didn't get enough sleep in the morning." that's not the kind of answer i'm looking for. i want to know HOW TO BE RIGHT, and you're not providing that.
Humpty wrote:if you're going to tell me i'm wrong,
Humpty wrote:then surely there's an answer you posses that i don't, and i'm asking you to teach me that. that's what's going on here. i'm asking you to teach me.
Humpty wrote:you're saying i interpreted the question wrong, are you not?
Mad Man P wrote:We know we die because of how our bodies are built, and we know our bodies are built this way largely thanks to random mutation and natural selection.... so when you ask "why" you're helping yourself to the assumption that there's some kind of goal seeking mind behind evolution and it's development that indended for us to come into existence and die... and now you want to know what the purpose of that mind is... ?!?!?!?
Only_Humean wrote:I think this is an interesting point. But I don't think necessarily you have to assume a directing mind for meaning or purpose - although many people *will* do so, of course. You could also see it as questioning how to work negatively-perceived events into your own self-made meaning and purpose consistently.
Mad Man P wrote:Only_Humean wrote:I think this is an interesting point. But I don't think necessarily you have to assume a directing mind for meaning or purpose - although many people *will* do so, of course. You could also see it as questioning how to work negatively-perceived events into your own self-made meaning and purpose consistently.
I don't think it's a bad thing to come to terms with death... but trying to do so by being intellectually dishonest about it, seems cheap... don't ask "why do we die"... ask "how should we deal with death?"...
cheegster wrote:iambiguous wrote:
Well, I don't see the two as necessarily in conflict. If you are going to live your life to the fullest why do it stumbling around in the dark?
I'd say they are, because as soon as you start to pursue knowledge you have to answer the questions of the world.
maryshelley wrote:From Agony? And in between the agonies there is living life to the fullest which may or may not include asking such questions as: 'Why does anyone die?'
Zorba, in a valiant attempt to answer your question: People die to remind us that we are still living but that one day we too will die.
Life is but one blink of the evolutionary eye.
iambiguous wrote:Knowledge in what sense? If you have a list of things that being you a lot of fulfillment a greater knowledge of them might bring you even more.
cheegster wrote:iambiguous wrote:Knowledge in what sense? If you have a list of things that being you a lot of fulfillment a greater knowledge of them might bring you even more.
But everything is necessarily linked to the bigger questions I suppose is where my point was leading. You can't search for knowledge but consciously put a cap on it and go 'that's enough', curiosity is too powerful.
Yes, to bigger and bigger questions, indeed. We can start with, "what is existence?" And we can end with, "what is the relationship between all that exist and 'I'?"
Zorba has it both ways. He lives his life and then, from time to time, he contemplates it. Basil, however, is there to find a new answer. And there is never only one.
Room for both (and more) approaches in this enormous soupçon.The problem, of course, is this: In living our lives we sometimes smash into the lives of others. Then we have to figure out the least dysfuntional way in which to do so. And here there is never one answer either.
Ah yes, the smashing.And if human existence is a blink of an eye on the scale that is evolution, just think how insignificant it must be when the scale is of cosmological proportions.
maryshelley wrote:but I also think 'evolutionary' works at bigger scales than this here on earth
iambiguous wrote:maryshelley wrote:but I also think 'evolutionary' works at bigger scales than this here on earth
True, but when most folks use the word evolution they are referring to the evolution of life on earth. Yet this is but an infinitesimally tiny speck in the evolution of the universe itself.
And what if the universe is but a speck in the evolution of something even more unimaginably gigantic still?
Humpty wrote:We can answer that question...
Some people die because they have diseases, cancer, a fatal illness, fall from a tall building, get stabbed in the face, get stabbed in the heart, get stabbed in a major organ, inhale a poisonous substance, get shot, drown, don't get enough nutrients to continue supporting their body, don't get enough water to continue supporting their body...there are many more. This is why people die.
todaytomorrow wrote:Why do the young live? Why does anyone live? Tell me!
You don't know?
What's the use of your damn books...
(Would your response be to die to the fullest?)
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