chance and us

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Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:57 pm

A team scores a touchdown and they get 6 points. "6" is added to their previous score on the score board.

Why is it 6 points? No reason. It could be 10 points, but we've decided it's 6.

And what is a "point"? No one knows. It has no objective existence. It's just an abstract concept that we use to create our scores.

So when you go to a game everyone is accepting this math that is completely abstract and subjective.

Simple, yes? (or are you just tired of this topic?)


Simple enough, but i'm not convinced that it proves mathematics is subjective. I definitely understand that we can use these numbers to represent quantities of imaginary objects, but the subjectivity disappears in that there are set rules in math that are followed, and they do not change relative to what we are working with.
"We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential amens. All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your mouldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a this year's fact. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years." -Robert Ingersoll

"My "faith," if truly I have any, is in the idea that methodically applied science increases our knowledge of the Universe." -Phaedrus
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Postby GuyNamedJohn » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:57 pm

Membrain wrote:What is a "point"? No one knows. It has no objective existence. It's just an abstract concept that we use to create our scores.


Da man has a point. :lol:
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Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:59 pm

It would be impossible to describe subjectivity without relativity, math is not relative. That's the point i'm trying to make. :wink:
"We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential amens. All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your mouldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a this year's fact. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years." -Robert Ingersoll

"My "faith," if truly I have any, is in the idea that methodically applied science increases our knowledge of the Universe." -Phaedrus
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Postby Membrain » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:16 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:It would be impossible to describe subjectivity without relativity, math is not relative. That's the point i'm trying to make. :wink:

I'll take another stab at it. But first, we should recognize that we are just establishing definitions. Your definitions are just as valid as mine, it's just that some definitions can create ambiguities and contradictions if they aren't "tight".

My definition of subjectivity = anything human.

By this I mean, anything taken in by a human, and anything put out by a human (of which math would be one).

And objectivity = the truth inherent in the object (having no human involvement whatsoever).

I believe that there is an "objective math" that exists and I believe that some of our subjective math approximates it. But I consider 100% of the math created by humans as "subjective". It's my (and others) definition.

Ya see, as soon as we say "humans created something objective" then the definition of "subjective" doesn't mean anything any more. It is untrue and the definitions clash. Making subjective=with-human and objective=with-out-human makes the definitions separate and non-contradicting. That's why I prefer this definition. It's tight. :D
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Re: chance and us

Postby Jakob » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:44 pm

I think we've done pretty good, for pure coincidence. I may still make the occasional grammatical slipup, but this is not even my native language.
Language - who'd have thought? From an explosion of raw energy to me sitting here typing about it - what are the chances of such an outcome? I'd bet money on this horse.

What I'm saying is - if this is possible from that, what is possible from this? Hard to grasp. Impossible to grasp. It's a shame I'm not going to be around for another billion years or so. I should be able to find a way for that to be possible. I'm part of nature. I'm supposed to be inventive enough. Seriously, all philosophies wisdom that death is part of life and a source of great sweet richness aside, if you could live to be a billion, would you want it? I mean who cares about the Sun eating the Earth by that time. You're gonna die anyway.

It's just cowardice that we've not invented that potion. I'm not falling for this story of being grateful for what I am anymore. If the universe had been grateful for what it was when it was a giant blorb, I'd sure as hell not be grateful to it.

I read a story about a Kaukasian tribe where people generally lived to be around 250 years old. When they heard about the 'proper' average age, they started dying earlier. We should probably revise our standards.

Hai.
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