One of probably a hundred questions, is time infinite?
Our definition of infinite is an expnase which continues forevor, a beginning that keeps changes places to before it was created. Can we actually view time as a graph in geometry where x is time and y is space? And each event is a coordinate and we measure it by years?
Well, if time is infinite, then each event would as well expand within infinite time in turn making it infinite. If each event expanded unto other events’ origin, then this would create a paradox.
My theory is that if you can distincly measure something, it is not infinite for the measurements would change all the time.
Maybe the question of infinite is for another post, but I am here now, feedback please of what you think.
Personally I don’t believe anything can be infinite. Everything ends at some point, life ends, stars die, I’m sure galaxies must fade away eventually. Everything has some sort of end eventually, I think its probably too far away into the future or into the past for us to conceptualize or understnad hence we come up with the idea of infinity but eventually… everything begins and everything ends.
well imagine the 3d universe is like the 2d surface of a sphere.
you go in one direction long enough youll end up back where you started, except 30billion+yrs passed. therefore you could go around that circle forever and always see something different.
15 billion years ago it was all a dot of hotness you were travelling around, but soon after and before that point, it was a space either contracting or expanding in some way.
cycles can be infinite if they are maintained from the outside somehow. the way its maintained doesnt need to be understood in order to see from within the cycle that its going to go on forever.
who said we could ever distinctly measure exactly what happens inside an atom sized big bang
Not as long as faith exists, no. Otherwise, and from a scientific viewpoint, I think it does.
And who says we won’t? We didn’t even know atoms existed until a short time ago, let alone that we’d be able to break them down as far as we have so far. I think people find too much certainty is systems that we haven’t explored a full 1%.
We have no proven evidence of any system in the Universe that is infinite. We also have no examle of life coming from something that isn’t alive, and we are fairly sure we’re alive, so I guess I’ll be agnostic.
You guys need to understand that just because we cant measure it doesnt mean it cant be measured. If something doesn’t have an end, then it must not have a beginning because within infinite, any point is the center.
Given your definition of infinite to work with, my first comment would be on your use of the word ‘expanse’. To me this implies a material or physical surface such as land or sea. If time is an expanse that is not physically set in a particular place, then one would expect that expanse to have set and measurable limits.
Your theory is more attractive:
I can distinctly measure my pencil. I am looking at it and it is distinctly measured to 9 cms. My pen is distinctly measured to 8.5 cms. Neither are infinite by your definition nor anyone elses.
You say that things which are measurable are not inifinite because such things would change all the time. That makes little sense to me because by virtue of being distinctly measurable, an item such as time is surely a constant. It cannot change all the time because it is distinctly measurable. Time is therefore by your definition, a constant.
I see your point, but we are not quite on the same track…
By expanse, I mean something which continues forevor. Think of the Universe (no dispute here please) it has been proven that it is ‘expanding’ because the galxies continue to move away from one another. Henceforth we can not accurately measure the distance to any Galaxy because they continue to move farther away.
I hope that cleared a few things up, if not, ask specific questions.
if you distinctly measure the size of something, then youve measured its size at one tiny point in time.
if you measure the rate at which it changes, then you will know where it is in the future. if we measure that the universe has a force expanding it outward that is greater than the forces that are contracting it inward, then it ends up that the big bang was in fact the arbitrary starting point and the end is a slow cold expanding freeze as all hydrogen is turned into heavier, non-star creating elements.
if gravity is strong enough, then it will all eventually collapse back in, at which point we are back at a place that resembles the unknown starting point, and therefore is also unknown.
this is the typically belief of somebody who lives in this universe. imagine someday that what we observe as the passing of time is nothing more than a physical process just like magnetism and gravity.
would you today, say that if there is a god, he is uncontrollably affected by gravity? of course not. and by the same logic he would not be affeted by time. he would not indicate his position by saying that today it is 5000bc ill go make a universe, he would say something that we couldnt possibly understand.
saying something is infinite is our way of coping with those things that are greater that us and impossible to understand
Lol This has been fun, but my original aim of writing this was to prove that time CANNOT be infinite. All your views are well appreciated and have been taken into account for future revisions of my theory, but FutureMan, just like on the ‘Peace of Mind’ post, you are thinking inside the box. This is what I was thinking: Ask yourself, what is before and after the Universe, or what is it expanding into?
Well, an expanse does not continue forever but ok, I will accept that and also accept that the universe is expanding constantly (rather than in fits and spurts).
By your definitions it is ok to put time on a graph when we refer to the past as it has been measured, which is good enough for our graph.
What I suspect you are suggesting now is that an hour tomorrow will not be the same length as an hour yesterday. However, I do not see how this gets you any closer to time being or not being infinite.
Oxford, Ok, If an expanse was not infinite and had a set measurement, then it would not be expanding now would it. I hate to use definitions but:
Expand- to increase the extent, number, volume, or scope of
It has no definite end, where the beginning is unknown but any point may be a starting point at which infinite is equal on both sides.
And it does get me closer to proving time is not infinite BECAUSE an hour yesterday IS the same amount of time as an hour WILL BE tomorrow( In your own words).
Nothing begins. nothing ends, all is, and always will be.
do you realise that the big bang is happening in this very moment right now? Not millions of years ‘out of reach’ as you think. Your consciousness can alter the ‘outcome’ of the big bang! Fantasy I hear you laugh!!! l o l.
We think we live in the “moment” between past and future. But how big is this moment? It is valueless. it has to be. (if you do give it a value I can instantly half your value so you know your value is wrong)
So one moment of time = a ‘time’ value of ZERO
How many moments have gone past since the “start” ? billions? so what are billions of zeros? STILL ZERO!
Time doesn’t exist. Is’s all about state of consciousness, and for us humans, consciousness is a very limited thing (at the moment).
Referring to one of my other threads, the moment between past and future(present) is a value of 0/some number; some number/0 where the number can never reach zero nor one.
Oxford, I honestly can’t figure a way to explain what I am trying to say in a way you would understand it, Time is not infinite because if it were, each event which occurs would collide with othr events and disrupt the content of the event creating a paradoxial dejavu where there are no definite origins of events. If someone understands this, please explain it better.
I can honestly say i don’t understand that logic at all. the X and Y axis of any graph are infinite. yet the coordinates on the plane are still perfectly meaningful. if time is infinite, then there is no boundary, and so nothing has any absolute age. Everything has a perfectly well defined age if measured from an arbitrary zero point.
Say that time IS infinite.
We measure the time it takes to do anything
If the thing we do(event) takes place in time,
then that event becomes infinite.
So, unless infinite has a set value, the events which had already
began and ended will evntually intervene with every event of the past/future, considering the present is infinitessimal.
Consider: Infinite + Infinite = Infinite, not 2infinite
This is the exact reason that the concept of zero wasn’t realized until the Roman Empire. Zero and Infinite are in fact one in the same.