I am currently on my gap year from England with a large group leaders from various youth movement and youth organisations in Israel. Often I look around at my new found friends and hear what they have to say. An opinion here… an opinion there. A voice founded purely on the rationnal thought process of that individual. Or is it?
Some of the group with me would consider themselves to be with a group of certain political views. Whilst these views are not placed on the children until ages 13 or 14 it is, in my eyes, almost definately fair to say that even from must younger ages of 8 or 9 simply the environemnt they’re in pushes them into the direction of the views held by the youth movement.
So my question to everyone is this: Firstly, if this is education in its true sense is it moral? Secondly, is it really education at all or is it indoctrination?
This always upsets me, parents’ problems become their children’s. I’ve grown up to the sounds of Republican propaganda against the Unionists. Once a real social problem of discrimination against Catholics that has now dissolved into projected hate for our perceived enemies, the Protestants.
All conflicts are born out of real social injustices, but then the injustice becomes forgotten by the red mist of hate that consumes and vindicates brutal and savage violence in the name of freedom. When I was a young teenager, I watched and took delight in seeing others killed in the name of a unified Ireland. What a stupid childish fool I was, I’m still sickened to this day at some of the mindless garbage I believed, which was spread through my local community.
When a community shares a common loathing for another group it doesn’t take long for children to learn and imitate their local social leaders. A child with the wrong view can be scolded into believing that their parents are right to despise those other people. The circle of hate is vicious, fuelled by a never-ending cycle of revenge. Segregation of the involved groups only makes things worse, as it then becomes impossible to create friendships between the groups. It becomes a spiral the grows more and more out of control as the years pass, and people become more dogmatic about there hatred for each other.
Only education and a willingness to learn of the other groups’ struggles in life can ever lead towards stopping the cycle of pain and death. When communities can come together and work jointly towards peace in faith and hope, that one-day all problems will be resolved, while those that oppose such things are ignored. We’ll always find reasons to hate each other; it is just as much a part of our nature as love. But we must choose what type of community we wish to live in, and sacrifices need to be made, this is undeniable, but without them, our grandchildren will still be killing each other in idle bitterness, an endless war of attrition.
Leaders of the future must be willing to risk dissention in the name of peace. It’s a coward that fights back with force. Those that are true leaders will need to not just lead one people, but two.
As a pre-post note, scentury, I assume you are referring to views held about the Israel/Palestine nightmare, I do apologize if I am wrong.
Everyone is indoctrinated in their life, most people haven’t got the capability to start thinking rationally about all the views they hold, in fact I’d say no-one has about all their views, whether it be that you never think about why you are polite to someone or if you don’t know why you think that the Jewish terrorists have any right to the land they stole 50 years ago.
You just can’t think rationally about most things, though it is good to at least try with big important matters. The availability of information, how it is presented in the media, the ability of the thinker (after all 50% of the population are below average in intelligence 
), to actually realise it is indoctrination, etc. etc. are all factors which mean that people tend to pick up certain standpoints rather than consciously adopt them. We touched on some of this in a discussion in the thread The make up of a person’s value set
Most people don’t need to think about those kind of things, their aims in life is to have a good time, get a good place to live, a partner that makes them happy and have some kids. Then they die happy that they lived a ‘good’ life. Tis only us tortured few that realise the world is a place where the blind are lead by the incredibly devious and the blind tend to drag everyone else along.
To be honest there are two sides to every story, the Israelis are indoctrinated by being told that Israel is some kind of promised land and they have some claim to it, they are merely surviving by the old proverb possession is 9/10ths of the law and by the grace of American Jews. The Palestinians are waging a terror campaign that they think is justified by both real and percieved atrocities. No-one in that particular situation can walk away blameless and it is one of these matters that an ideological stance is not perfect for. The death of the capitalism/communism clash seems to have sparked many smaller ideological clashes in the world, though we are (hopefully) beginning to see a start of a rise of a more pragmatic type of ideology that seems to be taking hold in Britain at least (though I don’t think America’s stance on the Iraq war was bred of pragmatism, rather nationalism).
To answer your original questions as I have drifted a little, my opinion is that indoctrination is necessary because an education system invaribly doesn’t have enough time or resources to be able to teach children in any other way. Not teaching them the values and ideologies of the society they are born into will invaribly weaken its structure and it’s probably just as likely to change to a worse society rather than a better one.
If you feel they do have the time and resource consider this. How many teachers out there will have a sufficient grasp of enough subjects and critical thinking to even get close to teaching a bias free curriculum? I’d say it is probably less than 1%. The task you would ask of an indoctrination free sylabus is incredible, to have them consider whether woman are equal to men, to consider racial differences, to consider morality, to consider religion, not only if it has any merit but which one you do adopt if you think it does. I could go on. It would be an impossible task fit for only truely great men, who would be wasted on merely creating people who have little need of all this ‘rational’ thought.
Nor do I believe children capable of such a task, they are not mentally adept enough for such a thing until maturity, just look at the swing away from the green party/lib dem (English political parties) at later age ranges, their ideology seems tempting enough until you see they are impractical to the extreme.
Finally, it is still education, it equips people with the basic tools for starting to look for rational thought and making their own decisions, while giving them some sort of belief structure if they don’t feel the need to embark on such a task, which most people won’t.
hi there scentury… you asked:
here’s my answer:
no, i don’t think that it is education if the children are being taught to believe things. of course, society or a person’s enviornment is arguably the only influence on a person’s outlook. this does not mean that a person’s schooling should reflect the popular opinion of the community.
if anything, i’m with nietzsche and rousseau on this one and believe that education should be a revealing of one’s personal aptitudes, skills and capabilities. education should make someone awear that they are suited to become a doctor or an artist, education should not make them a nationalist for a certain country. that is, as you say, indocorination and i think that pax gave a compelling arguement on why this is wrong
To quote Scentury:
Yes, couldnt this also be described as instinct? where a child mimics his already conditioned society to “be in place” and not do anything considered “wrong”. From when a child first goes in public and acts wild and crazy due to the excitement of all the new objects being encountered and notices others not behaving in the same manner. Not to mention getting a good telling off by its parent 
The child leans not to do this. Of course not insontaiously but over time with the help of direct or indirect conditioning of morals and society by televison or what have you, the child will learn.
I think an unbiased politicial upbrining through education is virtually imposible. The only solution to this would be a near ‘utopia state’. And i think that this is perfectly fine. It only makes sense for the educational curiculam to follow the political and social set morals of which it is in. It just makes sense from the governments point of view.
And i agree with Mat, children just aren’t mature or capable to decide and evalute issues with the limited knowledge and skills that they have. Being taught the tools so they are at one point are able to do so on thier own is a nesessity.
[ EDIT → so to awnser your question yes it is indoctrination, from which a child receives through various mediums.
Most people’s opinions are logical in a way, but those that diverge from ours usually do because they are based on different views of the facts or priorities. I would say that it is the business of education to present the facts in as honest and blunt a manner as possible so that people are able to base their views on their values rather than the potentially skewed view of the relevant facts a partisan education would instill.