Any anthroposophists out there?

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Any anthroposophists out there?

Postby the real seraph » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:47 am

Do any of you guys follow the philosophy of steiner? I'd be interested to talk to anyone who does.

Still searching,
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Postby Pax Vitae » Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:46 am

Steiner recognized that capacities for conscious spiritual perception lie dormant within every human being and can be awakened through exercises in concentration and meditation...
...Fundamental to all of his work is the view that the human being is composed of body, soul and spirit, and that the Christ event is key to the unfolding of human history and the achievement of human freedom.


http://www.steinercollege.org/rs.html

Mmm, it seems a little like Christianity, but with a kind of “Book of Mormons” flavour.

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Postby Johan » Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:57 am

Steiner's philosophy is quite humanistic. It teaches how to practically harmonize with the nature (and our spiritual nature). It's however not 100% relevant. It's good reading though, and it's pedagogic is better then what is teached in traditional schools. It's very much about learning from art and movement; and very little abstract learning, quite holistic actually, but this philosopy is also taking some strange turns here and there so do not adapt it as a dogmatic belief. But if you want a dogmatic belief this is better then most christianity, because it have some reell and practical pedagogic that is healty and not abstract. Study Esoteric philosophy but do not beleve in anything. Here and there you find pieces that resonate with modern science. I have personally never found a philosophy that is 100% resonating with what I think is the reality, but a lot of them are swarming around it like flies. Maybe that is as close we can get without becoming the philosophy. It was almost 10 years ago I read Steiner though.

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Christ = the incarnation of spirit in matter

Postby the real seraph » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:17 am

I just wrote a long message for this but on submitting it it disappeared...Ahhhh! Not happy. Can't be bothered right now to make all the points about anthroposophy not being cult Christianity but being a rational philosophy, so instead I'll turn it back at you guys again! Johann, what prompted you to read Steiner 10 years ago?
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Re: Christ = the incarnation of spirit in matter

Postby Johan » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:33 am

the real seraph wrote:I just wrote a long message for this but on submitting it it disappeared...Ahhhh! Not happy. Can't be bothered right now to make all the points about anthroposophy not being cult Christianity but being a rational philosophy, so instead I'll turn it back at you guys again! Johann, what prompted you to read Steiner 10 years ago?


Nothing special; I read everything that I found. I had one pile with read books and another with new books that I brought home every day. Even had my own bookstore and sold books. I have not read a book in more then 5 years now. It seams like all information I put in back then is stored in my head. I'm not that hungry for information now, I'm more in to experiencing. Steiner was just one of the authors I read while studying Esoteric. I also read Alice Bailey, Martinus, Helena Blavatsky, Henry T. Laurency, ETC in the same period.

You are right; anthroposophy is a very rational philosophy. We have a whole town here in Sweden that have anthroposophy in it's infrastructure. It's the best society I have seen so far. I can even imagine to move in there. It's not dogmatic but very alive and functional in a humanistic way. I would like that my son goes in a Waldorf school insted of the brain damaging traditional school when it's time.

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Postby the real seraph » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:51 pm

The town in Sweden sounds really interesting. How (give me a few principles) is it run? I agree with you about the Waldorf education - I knew a person who was educated by the Waldorf system and he was profoundly wise mature and sensitive, as well as being academically brilliant. A fine, fine, fine person. Of course he may have been the exception, but I think, given how deep Steiner principles seem to have been impressed upon his soul, he was an example of the rule.
I'm glad you've read Steiner. Though it seems you have read a great deal. Did you find after studying philosophy that you could no longer read a novel and historical essays became sickeningly verbose?!

Why marmalade and not syrup or strawberry jam?
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Postby Johan » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:51 am

The place is Jarna (Järna). Currently there are around 120 units that are influated by Steiner that forms this city/village; schools and education, factories, artists, biodynamic farms, bank, ETC. In the centrum of this structure you find Rufolf Steiner university Every unit is an individual that base there activity on Steiner theories. This forms a non abstract collective that live in harmony with nature. A collective is never better then the individuals that forms the collective, so I guess this place have attracted a lot of strong and aware individuals. A good example I think. The trend is however that religious people do not like anthroposophy; and think meditation and what they say; "magic" is something that the Devil has come up with. This tells us more about the level of awareness and dogmatism among those Christians. Steiners philosophy does not contain any dogmatic beliefs, and that you should accept a God or anything. It's more about estecism and the human capital in balance with nature.

Did you find after studying philosophy that you could no longer read a novel and historical essays became sickeningly verbose?!


I even find philosophy verbose and boring when it get abstract and complicated rather then leading to the meditative point. Philosophy can become a nobel substitute to life instead of a tool to find life, that is abuse. A lot of reading can just become distractions the same way that you put on the TV to forget about your life.

In a holistic world you can not describe the reality by putting together pieces of reality; you can not eat soup from a broken plate. There is nothing to understand when you experience that you are what you were trying to understand.

Why marmalade and not syrup or strawberry jam?


It's the difference between jam/syrup and marmalade that makes it more suitable. If the characteristics were the same then it would not matter, and we are working on this. But on the other hand; if the characteristics are the same we can call the substance anything we want. The dualistic perspective only exist as long as we assume that there is a difference. Some of us have talked about using the difference in the substance on the coins but so far we have not found it. Maybe we can solve the mystery by using marmalade on one side and jam on the other, and flip the coin to determine the difference, but I'm unsure how to evaluate the result from this process. I think it's impossible to find a relevant theory why jam should be better then marmalade because the difference have no value. The value in this case is the flipping itself, and marmalade give us the result we want. If jam has the same characteristics as marmalade then we will consider to use it. Practically we are already using it. The value of the result can not be measured by something outside the process. It's a total subjective value. Your question assumes that there are something outside the process that justify the outcome of the result. In my case I need facts and not some kind of God that tell me how to act. As long as you can not prove to me why jam or syrup is better then marmalade I will continue to use it.

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jam, marmalade identity theory or just functional roles?

Postby the real seraph » Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:07 pm

Excuse my crude philosophy but perhaps it is the strawberries, as opposed to oranges, which embodies this difference. A bit of orange peel is certainly less cumbersome than a whole squashed strawberry. But that's assuming you use the 'whole fruit' variety of each. But yes indeed the jam/marmalade dichotomy is something to think on....

What Steiner principles are involved in the bank? Surely a bank, by definition, is objectionable to the steiner ethos.

Where in Sweden to you study?
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Postby Johan » Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:02 am

What Steiner principles are involved in the bank? Surely a bank, by definition, is objectionable to the steiner ethos.


1. When the bank lend money to a project, the project is evulated by it's use and importance for society and that the project harmonize with ecological structures. The name of the bank is Ecobank (Ekobanken)

2. It's a members bank where all members have insight and get informed about loans and activity, the networking and information is important.

3. Everyone of it's members that want to support a new project can sign up as security, this forms a network where all individuals are a part of the total structure.

This would ofcourse not work without great individuals. It's the key.

I start to sound that I'm selling the concept here :)

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