Do we pick who we love?

Well my first post on the board and let me just say that I don’t think of myself as a philosopher but rather someone who just happens to ask himself really strange questions. That said heres my latest question, do we as human beings choose who we love or is it merely fate/destiny/coincidence that chooses for us?

(when I use the word love in this post it’s meant as the most romantic kind, so not the way you love your car. I think it was aristotle who said “one soul, two bodies”)

My arguement for the fact that we don’t choose who we love is this:

1. Many if not all people have at one time experinced unrequited love.
2. Of those people most would agree that the experince is a painful one.
3. Masochism can be defined as a person who chooses to inflict pain on themselves
4. Since I don’t think most people are masochist I would say that it follows that we don’t choose who we love.

So basiclly love must not be a concious desicion on a person’s part otherwise why would we choose to love someone who doesn’t love us back, therby causeing ourselves much pain.

Ok now my really crappy arguement for the fact that we do indeed choose who we love.

I have a friend who can basiclly be described as a womanizer now I’ve noticed that my friend tends to date women that all have certain qualities. Likewise I believe if you ask most people they can describe their “Perfect Match,” thus most people have both concious and unconcious critera they look for in someone they love. Now to me if someone has a set of critera that they check against and elimnate potential people with, then they are indeed choosing who they love.

Well that’s it, my first post so be kind. Really just curious what you all think. I personally lean to the first arguement myself.

i see what yer sayin. when i meet a girl… like i dont go out of my way to fall in love with her… nor could i… if love actually does deveop its not by choice… but just because ya feel that way. Its anything but the flick of a switch

im sorry im seeming overly romantic… im kinda inebriated

you may not choose how you feel about another individual- that is a reaction to experiences, another level of experience about that which matters to us…

but you do choose how you act, independent of any determinism arguement we feel that we choose and are autonomous…you can act in line with your feelings or not, and through conscious decisions i think that the individual has the control to determine what shared experiences with another will lead to what feelings…you can decide to take that romantic weekend away or not, if you do you have decided to have an experience with another that fosters feelings of love, if you don’t the seperation and space- maybe she goes with another, has a “tendency to atrophy any feelings of compassion” to paraphrase a tool song that has personal connotation right now…

i am possibly/ probably on the receiving end of some of this, the person that i feel strongly for, that i love and want to spend all my days with has “eloped” with another…to the shock and surprise of everyone…
it is possible that changes, radical changes to her life, going to uni, new home, family all far far away, when these changes presented themselves on the horizon she felt that she couldnot depend upon me, on my feelings for support and her subsequent action with this other bloke( snake in the long grass ) is an attempt to break those feelings…so she can go it alone, that she doesn’t have these feelings for me so she is not vulnerable to my future actions during the upcomming time of change…

i do not put stock on any interpretations of the situation, the best thing in predicate logic is the fact that there are an infinite number of interpretations for any pl sentence…the same holds true for real life, any interpretation we do apply to our surroundings is contingent upon our position within a tradition…that which we are handed as our narrative for understanding…a recent thought i have had is that those people who “rule” the world are simply those who are the best story-tellers, those who are best at getting others to accept their narratives over any other that presents itself…

by not holding any interpretation as gospel i concentrate only upon what i am feeling/experiencing now…the future is nothing to me…

tangent but relevant to me

my senses sense love

Caspin00 stated:

I believe that love is like a recipe…knowing what you want, more importantly, what suites you well; since there are those that actually like to go after destructive types of people and relationships. This will invariable allow you to start your cooking…ah, I mean dating.

Anyway, you have to actualize your tools, both intrinsic and extrinsic. Ie. Use tools like looks, clothing, speech, school, job, nature, cars, jewellery, demeanor, personality, type of friends, opinions and views, etc. It’s kind of like knowing you have a spatula, mixer, knife set, pots and pans, the skill of adding just the right amount, not being afraid to go against a recipe book, since the true enjoyment comes from doing it your way. Notice that I haven’t said anything about actualizing these tools for someone, this was intentional, because you should actualize your tools for yourself. Come to terms with yourself; the good and the bad and actualize them, meaning put them to use and don’t be ashamed of them. Do this for yourself, in order to be yourself.

I think fate has to come into it just like in order to make mushroom soup, you need to have found mushrooms and know that you can eat them; well, some of them. Fate has to bring the person into your life in some way, but knowing yourself makes your chances of the right one entering your life much more likely. The minute the person enters your life it’s quite logical to see it as destiny.

You need one quarter tea spoon of looks, 300 millilitres of gentleman, one and a half cups of humour, swirls of romance, an unlimited amount of adaptation, forgiveness, and acceptance; with just a drop of chivalry and courage to go after the one you like, patience is the first ingredient to enter, mix it with intelligence - fun - and sex before adding any of the other ingredients, carefully bake intrigue, love for life, and a willingness to share to 350 degrees; put everything together into a pot; lightly season with coincedence, serendipity, thought of the other, natural highs, and just a tinge of never getting tired of learning more about the person and you are ready to mix.

How do we mix though? Well leave that upto time, resilience, an open mind, and that higher power that we all feel and unfortunately most associate with a religious term ‘God’. Either these elements will mix you together or they will leave something that doesn’t taste very good and will get thrown into the garbage.

What’s your take?

My thougts on this would be that in a passive way, we do indeed choose who we love. While it is true, no one sees someone at random and says “I’m going to love them, that’s the love of my life.” And it’s true that many times people kind of fall in love without meaning or planning to. However, this is where it becomes passive. I believe a big part of answering your question would involve looking at who we fall in love with, and then figuring out what makes us love them. Find all of the things that make you love this person. At this point you have realized what will determine who you fall in love with. We fall in love with people who have traits and personalities which we already loved before meeting the person, and so therefore, we fall in love with the embodiment of what we already loved to begin with. In my idea, this is why we fall in love with some people and not others.

Well love is usually thought of as something that hits us when we least excpect it. But if someone really wants to they can make themselvses love someone.

I disagree with both of the above posts, on the topic of one being able to make themselves love someone. Unless you wish to explain to me how one goes about to MAKE themselves love someone, I’m all ears, otherwise I will have to disagree.

Well actually I do agree that to a certain extent we are able to choose who we fall in love with.

I someone wants to fall in love, then generally they will (based on my experiences with people I know). You may argue that it isn’t real love, or they are deceiving themselves into thinking they are in love when they really aren’t, but where do you draw the line between this “artificial” love and “real” love? What’s the difference?

I can’t say I’ve ever been in love with any of my girlfriends, and my reasoning is that I’ve never allowed myself to. If I had entered into any of my relationships under the premise that I wished to form a deep, meaningful relationship with any of these girls, then I would argue that there is a good chance that I would have fallen in love. However - maybe it’s a defect in my personality - I did not abandon myself to any such premise. It wasn’t as though I staunchly refused to fall in love with these girls, but anytime I did feel myself developing “deeper” feelings I was able to rationalise them away.

Erm, I realise now that I may seem a bit twisted or “cold” but that’s not true. Perhaps I’m too rational at times - and perhaps that is why I haven’t found love yet - but I still stand by what I said earlier. If you want to fall in love, you will find reasons to fall in love… which is not to suggest that all those who claim to be “in love” have deceived themselves into such a state of mind, simply that it is possible to willingly fall in love.

I’m a bit tired, so I may attempt a better explanation some other time.

A lot of interesting things have been said here, but what if love is not a feeling but a process? That is, in order to love someone, you must in turn be loved by that someone. I’m not suggesting that you can’t have feelings for someone, but that that feeling or feelings (in order for it to be love) must develop along side someone else. This is a tremendous risk that I think many people distance themselves from, it’s precisely the risk of unrequited love, of realizing that you’ve been living in a fantasy world, of betrayal, and of lies. Since you can never be quite sure that that other person is being honest, it’s always a threat. Love is intimately involved with trust and trust is a decision. I think Thales point and JP’s point are quite similar in this sense. To go on the romantic weekend is a choice, to avoid asking whether this is a potentially permanent relationship is a choice, it is a choice to develop feelings from whatever initial point you began (I realize this is quite different from love at first sight but we have other words for that – need, lust, crush, infatuation, obsession etc.)

I can’t really prove this except to say that mutual love is far more intense than unrequited ‘love’ and so, perhaps, it’s better to say that love is created or developed in a relationship rather than the relationship being a fulfillment of something you already feel.

i agree with brad. love is not something you do to someone. its the relationship you have together. it lies between 2 people. it does not exist in you. (if you get my point)

I think a partner enhances the experience but I don’t think that it can’t exist without another person. I could state examples but they are kind of weak and I’d prefer to accept the idea that it takes two… me and you.

In essence, what you are really asking is do we have free will? By this I mean that if we have total freedom, then we can do basically whatever we want (including choosing who we want to love). However, the Idiot makes a good point in that, love a duality that shared, created and nourished by two people. The question of free will however, is so difficult I would 500 pages to get into it.

to the question; do we pick how we love…

nope, the patterens of ur DNA do. all of it is 100% genetic and predetermined (my opinion anyway)

That’s just a wee bit reductionist, Silver, don’t you think?

It’s the wrong language game.

No, not at all… everything we are is genes… your physical appearance, your personality, the way you think, why you say what you say, what u do, how you act, why you are interested in what you are interested in, EVERYTHING about anyone is in their genes…

Yes of course environment has something to do with it but because everyone is exposed to some environment, it can be cancelled out by saying; its in your genes how your gene will react to the environment.

Leaves no place for idealism doesn’t it… oh well…

counters are encouraged; I need to refine that concept

I agree with you that our genes are the factor that lead us to react accordingly to our environment. But how is it that the environment itself is not a factor as well? For instance, let’s say that we clone a child, therefore leaving us with two children that have exactly the same genetic mapping. We place each child in seperate environments; one in a loving family and one in a neglectful family. Do the children both turn out the same? Do the children both choose similar mates when they are grown?

In Psychology, this has been termed the Nature/ Nurture debate. Most believe that there is a balance between the two.

What do you mean by “Leaves no place for idealism doesn’t it… oh well…”? Explain further. Interesting subject.

This subject leads me to wonder, is there really just one person out there for us? or is the person we end up with just dependant upon circumstances?

I’ll concede that genes contain potentiality but not actuality with reference to genes. But potentiality doesn’t mean all that much. It matters little who you are genetically programmed to love if you are a hermit in Siberia.

But that’s not my main point, genetic programming doesn’t really matter when you love someone, it only matters that you love someone (and as I’ve already mentioned that they love you). When you’re actually in love, it doesn’t matter where it comes from, it matters what you do as a result. To say that it’s all genetic programming is to give up individual responsibility in a relationship and that would most likely leave you forsaken for another rather quickly. Love is about taking responsibility for someone else, not shrugging your shoulders and saying that it’s not your fault, it’s in a certain scientific description of where feelings come from.

In response to silver. If everything is controlled by genes then not only is there no room for idealism in your world view, but also no room for the concept of free will. It seems if everything we are, do, or say, is controlled by genes, then freedom is out the window. Also, your world view doesnt take into account things outside of ourselves, like the physical universe, so in that sense it is limited.

I agree here. I have a friend who is constantly afraid of being alone. She is always able to find reasons to fall in love with someone – usually after they have expressed interest in her. The sure thing syndrome. However, because she wants so badly to fall in love and has found reasons to do so, I don’t think that makes her experience of loving and being loved any less real for her while it lasts.