its not really philisophical. its more a sociological questoin but there is no sociology section so i figured id post it here.
alright this is how i see things. males for the most part do things out of desire for power. they go about in search of authority so they can feel dominant over something. the other possibility for a decision could be influenced by a female. in which case power and dominance dont play a role in their decision on how to handle a situation. what i want to know is what the fuck do girls want? no “true love” doesnt count. its not an instinct for an animal to seek out true love that doesnt make any sense. if anything girls go out attempting to attract a mate and nurture young. those are the only primal instincts i see girls having so how does that play into a social standing? in any social group of all males you will always see a male at the head that makes all of the decisions. they will always have a number two man that has some power for extra encouragement or another viewpoint. possibly to see if they are making the wrong choice. after those two you can group males into two other categorys. there are the “bitches” as i call them who listen to dominant male and follow him around all the time out of fear of being rejected from the group. then there is the outcasted people who dont listen to the dominant male as much but still fear his power. they usually tend to drift from social group to social group in search of a powerful position. in my observations ive noticed that the outcasted males usually form their own social group and either form another hierarchy if there are more than about 3 or they keep an equal relationship where everyone has about equal power. now i watch girls and notice no order, no dominant figure. there looks like there is no drive for any social position. i want to know from a girls point of view if they follow a similar system or a totally different one based on female emotions and instincts. also if any guys see a flaw in the way ive organized my views of males id also like to hear that as well.
yea basically but i dont know how much better i can put it. i dont really want to make a giant post again either but alright ill make a general basic question.
what is it that girls strive for?
what makes girls better than other girls from a girls point of view?
equity. to have as much opportunity as men do as is possible. there are obvious barriers to such a change in society, but many women generally want the same as men do (esp. those who have no ambitions for motherhood).
there is no physiological difference between the two concerning intelligence that i am aware has been documented.
but as you said, there are different ‘categories’ for girls in western societies, but ideally they would strive for whatever they wanted (as individuals), or at least whatever they wanted within the context of being a mother).
do you know nietzsche’s views on women. very amusing!
(do you think a sociology forum would be a good idea? or do you think the politics and economics forum should extend its remit?)
And then read Schopenhauers views, which are twice as bad (or good depending on your perspective ). Must be something about German idealism that cultivates extreme chauvanism maybe…
Though, having said that, for all his laughably mysogenistic comments (by todays standards anyway) he does raise one or two good points the would still be considered very risque in this age of PC. The main one is that for all the emphasis placed on acheiving equity of the sexes, there has to be some acknowledgement that we are not, as a result, the same and that the genders (and the races and so on) are actually vastly different types of people. That is not to say that one sex is superior - not at all - but I think one of the flaws of political correctness is its inability to discriminate between different people at all: it seeks to homogenize (did I just make that word up?) us and inflict this insistence that “we are all the same” as one of its key foundations. But we are not: we may be equal, but we most certainly are not the same. To suggest that women ought to chase after the same things as men is at bottom, fallicious: they should be free to strive after the same things that men do should they so desire, but to suggest that they chase after these things purely to attain some notion of sexual “equality” is a bit silly really. Regardless of what these conservative deadheads will tell you about societal intergration, equality and our homogeneous species, we are all different - every single one of us - and there is no shame in acknowledging that.
Anyway, I think it’s a very confusing day and age for the pidgeon-holing of the sexes into gender-specific behaviours. I think females are adapting more traits that in the past would have been considered masculine, and that males are starting to adopt distinctly feminine traits that weren’t there 100 years ago. And it’s a good thing - with, I suppose, each sex being able to learn “desirable traits” from the other - but the obvious consequence is that trying to attribute certain character-traits to the sexes as a general rule of thumb has become difficult at best or sexist at worst. What women (or men for that matter) strive for in this day and age cannot really be judged objectively, as this self-actualisation has become an autonomous action, not an action dictated by the contraints of societal expectation. I think there is still an element of social expectationaround today (in that, society as a whole still expects males and females to exhibit certain gender-specific traits so as to conform with what we would call “normality”) but basically this is a time in human history where 12,000 years of the laws of civilisation are being turned on their heads, and we begin to see the advent of more avant-garde, self-directed character roles for individuals to play out, not the stuffy, restrictive stereo-types of yesteryear.
It’s a good thing overall - which does come at some costs (as self-autonomy means that some people may not be able to fathom a direction or “goal” for their personal development, which may have been there in the years of gender stereotyping) - but by and large, and I think we live at the beginning of a more enlightened age (in this respect anyway) of humanity’s development.
[quote="JPI think one of the flaws of political correctness is its inability to discriminate between different people at all: it seeks to homogenize (did I just make that word up?) us and inflict this insistence that “we are all the same” as one of its key foundations. But we are not: we may be equal, but we most certainly are not the same. [/quote]
I could not agree more. I’ve always reckoned the p.c. movement to be a creation of the right, or at least in britain. by people who don’t seem to appreciate the true essence of liberalism and multiculturalism, where many cultures develop, more ‘niches’ become available for people to fill, and hence increasing the likelihood of an individual realising their personality/perfection. a dream society, and a realistic one, as well.
i agree, again. maybe i was a bit vague, not answering the question directly. as jp said, the question ‘what do girls strive for’ appears to carry a weighty assumption. the asssumption that ‘girls’ strive for the same thing, or at least are drawn towards a universal something. however, women’s liberation has smashed this notion to pieces, even blurring the traditional line that had separated the genders. no two examples are the same, which is why i think the question was posed from a sociological perspective.
i’m late. i’ll write more later. does anyone think there is a universal ‘something’ that women strive for?
from a freudian level, or merely observing the trends that have seen the female role in society/in the family change so profoundly over the last century or so.
why question and assumptions were based on comparisons to animals and the way they naturaly interact with each other. as animals i think males naturally assume a role in their society as well as females. they are different halfs of an equation i believe so therefor i dont think they are supposed to have the same role in society. the females of most animals are there to mother their children. they take care of their children so they have a better chance of survival among the masses of other competitors. males are walking sperm machines. which really only have the purpose to mate but have developed to have other qualitys that make them who they are. males developed to be bigger and stronger in most mammals therefor making them have the ability to control women and in turn becoming a leader in most cases. but it comes down to basic instincts and i think that women do all have a common desire because of their natural instincts. i see those as general rules that govern the way society works. the way males think and the ways females think. i work from there out. i also think when it all comes down to it the only reason we are male and female is for more diverse offspring. i see that as the beginning. one side had to have the thing come out of them which set off a chain reaction of social ideas that eventually ends at our present time.
i don’t think that you can state that all girls strive for the same thing. i accept that our original role as women was childbirth and motherhood, but so much has changed in the past few hundred years, especially with the industrial revolution, that the rules of society, and therefore the ambitions and aims of both sexes have changed.
women are obviously far more career-orientated now then they were fifty years ago, but there are still some whose aim is motherhood. you cannot make generalisations about an entire sex, and i think that the aims and ambitions of everybody differ.
alright how about this then… when you are around someone you are trying to impress. what do you see as impressive.
i want to be in peoples heads. it annoys me when im so clueless about how people think. i guess i assume i know how guys think because im a guy and have been thinking this way. also that i hear people tell me they think this way. im probably just over generalizing though.
Hello. I’m new. This topic has certainly boggled my mind as well. I have been wondering basically what women want, but as I find out, they all do not want the same thing. What I do know is this: men want sex, and that is about the only thing they want. Certainly not all men want this, But it seems to be the only thing 98% of the males that I know want. I just heard the results of a survey done here in the States that men (18-35yo) have delayed the idea of marriage because they could get more sex when they are single, and from many different women.
I thought that females wanted a caring gentleman, one who cater to their every need, and one to be there and comfort her whenever needed. I have attempted to search for these types of females, and I keep running into dirty sluts that just want sex. To me, that is dirty, and it completely disgusts me, but it seems that some, not all, females just want sex, just like most men. I did not live back in the 50’s, but it seemed that the females that I am looking for lived then, and no longer exist. Certainly I am not giving up on looking for a mate, but its so damn hard to when every girl around me seems to just want to have sexual partner, and not a life-long companion.
I don’t know if I added any information anyone could use, but thanks for reading anyway.
I think women are wrong to assume men only want sex 24/7, they are just generally right half the time.
I myself do in fact want sex, but another factor is why. Look at what sex brings. Companionship, Lust, Love, Emotional Ups, emotional downs, breakups, tension, excitement, exotic, erotic, basically everything that people search for is tied into sex. Most or some do want sex for pure physical lust and release. But I want sex because of the intimacy shared between two people in a few single moments that they can call their own.
So yes men want sex, but that is because we as men have tied it to so many other things that we believe they all go together. Women want everything just like men do, or so I would believe, its all in the process of striving to attain our goals that we differ and cause undue stress and conflict.
Life is fleeting why not spend half of it in bed experiencing new highs of physical, emotional, bliss.
I think tying other feelings into sex is not good. Everyone has to feel excitement, emotonal ups and downs, etc., but using sex to give you those things will only let you down in the end. That, I think, is where urge for frequent sex comes from. I admit, I am one of those guys who do not think of sex 24/7; I do not want a girl to have sex with me whenever I want. So I do not tie many feelings into sex, only love(I think). I get my other feelings from other activities, such as playing hockey, playing in a band, breaking things, etc. So I do not have to depend on sex to get me these feelings.
I agree with you that people tie many feelings into sex, but I do not think it is a good way to go.
cba are you female? that might be why you have problems seeing the social hierarchy within female social groups…watched big brother and see the bitching that went on over power and dominace position within the group between adele, jade and sophie…i can’t stand that show but it’s a good example…
now the whole male and female not being the same thing i agree with, but i think that the male and female forms are simply different expressions, evolutionary strategies if you will, of the same fundamental drives…power and dominace is one but not the only one- will to power, that which drives life…but what is life and how does the will to power fit into this?
necessary to our existence as mortal is our natural method of genetic longevity, ie reproduction…a replication of our own form on the world around us, although with sexual reproduction this becomes a compromise with another individual that offers the opportunity for variation…as our bodies are an extension of the drives and needs that have directed our evolution so culture and social interaction specifically are also extension of these needs…our interation is dictated by our individual ability to replicate ourselves within a cultural worldspace in relation to the abilities of others, setting up hierarchies of competance…or something like that…
as for a hierarchy amoung women, go look in a high school. thats the hierarchy at its prime. I have had women friends wish they could go back and be friends with some people they burned, but if they did go back I dont think they would differ, due to its their nature to try to be Alpha Female. Just as some men strive for Alpha Male.
I’m a male. I watch girls interact with each other and get nothing out of it. I watch guys interact with each other and I’m like… o I see what he wants. The differences in males and females have lead the sexes to behaive in certain patterns socially. That is what I’m trying to find out. Whether women have a pattern or whether they have in a way more free will than men do.
Everybody men and women have patterns on how they do things. I would view your questions too ranged or general. Every person has free will, but every person has their habits. You are asking if women escape their habbits, but I would have to say it doesnt matter. People will do what they want to do. whether its their will or their habit. But yes women have patterns.
attention, sex, a high standpoint, success etc. but i think that everyone wants these things… anyway.
question: How far is it true to say that behind every successful man is a woman…?
). Must be something about German idealism that cultivates extreme chauvanism maybe…
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