Moderator: Only_Humean
There is no point in to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.
WendyDarling wrote:There is no point in to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.
Learning isn't progressing?
A lot of things don't need to be known.
Gloominary wrote:There is no point to life.
Gloominary wrote:There is no point to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.
Life is a mix of opposing qualities: birth and death, growth and decay, joy and sorrow, desire and satisfaction.
If there was a point to life, which I don't think there is, it'd be to embrace all these states of being, or to embrace nothing at all.
There's no such thing as a one sided coin, but that hasn't stopped many of us from trying to find one.
..........
Wiki wrote:In control engineering a servomechanism, sometimes shortened to servo, is an automatic device that uses error-sensing negative feedback to correct the action of a mechanism.[1] It usually includes a built-in encoder or other position feedback mechanism to ensure the output is achieving the desired effect.
Pandora wrote:Gloominary wrote:There is no point to life.
And with those words, Gloominary walks into some woods... never to be seen again...
Maybe he's sitting in the forest somewhere, rubbing two sticks together. Or maybe he's been eaten by hungry predators.
Does it even matter?
Urwrongx1000 wrote:I've always been repulsed by nihilistic, self-hating professors and especially their infiltration into the philosophical arena. Just because your life is worthless, has no meaning, and lacks purpose, doesn't mean that your status applies to anybody else. However you may find this or that other nihilist, who shares your hopelessness, and then feed off each other for awhile. Others may sympathize with you, and feed the fire of your discontent. That also doesn't help.
The world already has too many Nihilists as nihilistic views have become commonplace. Nihilism, to me, is a sign of low-birth and the slave caste, born without purpose, without meaning, without value. Rather your purpose in life is to serve your superiors. Many in the western world believe that they are "free" when they are not. Slaves rebel against their masters, and then find themselves without value in life, because the lineage of their slavitude has lasted for generations or millenniums. A freed-slave has never tasted freedom before. So of course you will experience such a nihilistic reaction, that of despair and weakness.
Most Westerners have already, long ago, turned to (Abrahamic) god, christianity, judaism, or other forms of institutionalization. Many give themselves with blind loyalty to the "secular state", civilization. These "progressives" believe their life has meaning politically, which is another form of slavery and delusion. Another dead-end. Yes it can be the case in life that many organisms, even outside humans, live dull, boring, valueless lives of repetition. After all, to adapt to an environment, is to form a (repeating) habit within it. All organisms do this. But despite that, it doesn't necessarily reflect the particular value of this or that specie.
Humans are no different. Within humanity, there is a portion of humans that are valueless, have no meaning in life. 80% perhaps? We could go through the numbers but it won't necessarily help. All it will show you is that there are many other nihilists, like yourself, who have no meaning and purpose in life.
I've also learned, for me, that it's pointless to "help" nihilists. So don't think that's what I'm doing here. I'm merely prescribing to you your symptoms, as a doctor would diagnose a physical illness. Nihilism is not only a physical illness, but a mental and spiritual one as well. It's a genetic illness. A slave is waking up from his/her mental slavery, and yearning for a salve, a sedative, to return to sleep. Thus you may find false meaning, false purpose, and false worth in life. I'm not here to point you to a meaningful life and existence. Because I don't have faith in nihilists. Why give hope to the hopeless? You toss a life preserve to 1000 drowning in water, they will crowd and overturn your boat. I've seen it happen.
So yes, your life is shit, and there is no hope for you. This is what you wanted to hear, correct? For somebody to confirm your fears?
I'm just here to tell you, you're wrong. Your meaningless does not reflect upon other, rarer humans, who are full of meaning, full of worth, full of purpose in life. Some humans have value. Perhaps this will shock you, and you will wish you were one of them.
self-hating
Just because your life is worthless,
doesn't mean that your status applies to anybody else.
The world already has too many Nihilists as nihilistic views have become commonplace.
Nihilism,
to me, is a sign of low-birth and the slave caste,
Rather your purpose in life is to serve your superiors.
Many in the western world believe that they are "free" when they are not.
Most Westerners have already, long ago, turned to (Abrahamic) god, christianity, judaism,
Many give themselves with blind loyalty to the "secular state", civilization.
Yes it can be the case in life that many organisms, even outside humans, live dull, boring, valueless lives of repetition.
Humans are no different. Within humanity, there is a portion of humans that are valueless, have no meaning in life. 80% perhaps? We could go through the numbers but it won't necessarily help. All it will show you is that there are many other nihilists, like yourself, who have no meaning and purpose in life.
I've also learned, for me, that it's pointless to "help" nihilists.
True, random facts are unimportant when not applicable or necessary for one's daily life, but that is not the learning I was speaking of. I was addressing more of one's gained self knowledge and our affects on our environment and others, I was addressing the emotional intelligence that spills forth from common sense and making valuable decisions about our actions and reactions.
I believe we are here to feel. We exist to feel emotions.
Our advanced emotions are our greatest asset
but dumb us we cannot seem to work through our emotions without damaging our overall well-being somehow as with numbing activities or life threatening activities. We fail to react accordingly 9 times out of 10. We keep failing to learn what's important, what makes life worth living, which is felt as an emotion.
Maybe if education paid more attention to emotions earlier on we'd be more able to manage them.
This seems like an argument supporting that learning CAN BE a form of regression, but not that it must be.Gloominary wrote:WendyDarling wrote:There is no point in to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.
Learning isn't progressing?
Learning is often regressing.
Learning takes time and energy.
It's better to conserve resources and energy than to squander them.
A lot of things don't need to be known.
You don't need to know what your friend's friend's friend is eating for breakfast in Alaska.
You don't need to know how many moons orbit Jupiter, or what their names are.
You may enjoy learning about these things, but often the more we learn about the world, the more depressed we are, as individuals and as a species, because the world can be a horrible place.
Newtonian and Darwinian cosmology and genealogy were more depressing than the cosmologies and genealogies that came before them, and what have we really gained from adopting this worldview, even if it's closer to the truth?
Did Odin not have to give up his eye for wisdom?
Did Pandora not unleash many evils upon the world?
Humans may damage or destroy themselvs and nature in a scientific experiment.
Modernity itself is a kind of scientific and sociological experiment gone awry.
Gloominary wrote:I don't hate myself.
Gloominary wrote:My life has some worth to me, just not a lot.
Gloominary wrote:Here you argue against the notion of repetition, and so you're actually arguing against reality.
Existence is repetition, rich and poor alike have to get up in the morning, shower, shit and shave, go to work, come home, eat and go to bed.
Rich people get hemorrhoids, diarrhea, they might get a kidney stone from all the rich foods they've been eating.
If Science is telling us anything, it's that even stars explode, perish, and arise again like the phoenix from their stellar ash.
The seasons turn, war, peace, famine, feast and so forth.
You think life has to be exciting, because you're a total hedonist and materialist, or at least of the positive, assertive kind, not the negative, passive away from pain and suffering kind, which is more the kind I am.
It doesn't have to be, nor should it be necessarily, to each their own.
You're pipe dreaming about transhumanism and linear time, but actually what science is telling us now, if anything, is the human species is on the verge of its annihilation, not salvation, not just for the many, but for all.
Urwrongx1000 wrote:Gloominary wrote:I don't hate myself.
From the OP, it certainly sounds like you do.Gloominary wrote:My life has some worth to me, just not a lot.
ObviouslyGloominary wrote:Here you argue against the notion of repetition, and so you're actually arguing against reality.
Existence is repetition, rich and poor alike have to get up in the morning, shower, shit and shave, go to work, come home, eat and go to bed.
Rich people get hemorrhoids, diarrhea, they might get a kidney stone from all the rich foods they've been eating.
If Science is telling us anything, it's that even stars explode, perish, and arise again like the phoenix from their stellar ash.
The seasons turn, war, peace, famine, feast and so forth.
You think life has to be exciting, because you're a total hedonist and materialist, or at least of the positive, assertive kind, not the negative, passive away from pain and suffering kind, which is more the kind I am.
It doesn't have to be, nor should it be necessarily, to each their own.
You're pipe dreaming about transhumanism and linear time, but actually what science is telling us now, if anything, is the human species is on the verge of its annihilation, not salvation, not just for the many, but for all.
Nihilism is a form of delusion by which any individual or person attempts to 'negate' (destroy) the world "as it is". Thus Nihilism is inherently anti-reality. Usually it is a manifestation of self-hatred, spawning from, as you mentioned, a loss or complete lack of meaning, value, or worth in life. Many people feel this way, because you can argue, they really do have no worth in life. No meaning. No value. Their lives are empty, spawned from empty parents, spawned from empty parents. A long tradition of nihilism passed down from one generation to the next, breeding on instinct and reflex more than anything else. And certainly more than inspiration.
There are distinct differences between nihilists and others who, by contrast, "love life", find meaning and value within it, or best of all, create meaning, which seems to be the most existential challenge and accomplishment of all.
I'm not anti-reality by reiterating the point of repetitions. My point is that much nihilism spawns from the repetition of the slave-caste, living out meaningless lives, through the repetitive motions, by which people wish, dream, and desire that their insignificant lives "could change", although they/you completely lack the power and will to do so. In this way, "breaking the chain" of such slavery could mean simply, breaking the chains of repetitions. But I've studied human nature, and nature in general, a long time now. People grow accustomed to these repetitions, habits, and habitats. Just as a corpse grows accustomed to its burial grave.
The nature of desire is to want what one cannot have, ever.
WendyDarling wrote:Maybe if education paid more attention to emotions earlier on we'd be more able to manage them.
Agreed. What would be the educational methodology to accomplish that feat? Where would it begin if the parent/s did not participate in cooperation? I like the idea of "confrontation classes" or "designing destressing classes" or "honesty initiatives classes" or "tactful talking classes."
This seems like an argument supporting that learning CAN BE a form of regression, but not that it must be.
human beings are different from all other living things.
The significant differences are human beings are evolved with higher intelligence, the capacity for wisdom, morality, abstraction, progress, planning, deliberate conscious decision making and others.
From observations and inferences of the evolution of mankind to the present, it is noted the human being is a type of biological servomechanism like the following;
In control engineering a servomechanism, sometimes shortened to servo, is an automatic device that uses error-sensing negative feedback to correct the action of a mechanism.[1] It usually includes a built-in encoder or other position feedback mechanism to ensure the output is achieving the desired effect.
For a servomechanism to work effective, there must be an objective [desired effect] as a target for the machinery to work on.
In the case of the servomechanism of humans, the objective is a meaningful purpose of life.
Since there cannot be a teleological [God directed] purpose of life, to fulfill the imperative of the servomechanism, humanity must develop a meaningful purpose of life.
To establish a workable meaningful purpose of life, with intelligence on hand, humanity can abstract from the experiences, observation and knowledge of human evolution and general evolution of all living things.
An observation of the above general evolution is there are no species that has emerged with a drive to be extinct immediate or as soon as possible.
Therefore one can infer all living things including human beings strive to survive at all costs until the inevitable, reproduce the next generation to preserve the continuation of the species.
The above is thus one meaningful purpose of life.
There are many other subsets of purpose of life to support the above main purpose of life.
Thus, there is no teleological purpose and meaning of life, but there has to be an imperative and humanity defined meaningful purpose of life [as above] to ensure our inherited servomechanism works effectively or else various forms of pains are generated.
Dan~ wrote:Sometimes life is a bridge to greater things.
The world itself is next-to-nothing.
But that doesn't render it meaningless.
It just means it has a long distance left to travel.
Take the whole human population, 100% which is at present 7+ billion then ask what is the % or number that is living with a drive to die prematuredly, i.e. those who are suicidal.Gloominary wrote:Now evolutionists can come along and claim we always have some ulterior, subconscious or unconscious motive, that the real objective is to help us survive, or attain something that helps us survive (but sometimes these behaviors are more likely to take us to an early grave than anything else), or that the behavior is at least a by-product of something that helps us survive, or an archaic behavior that once would've helped us survive, but even if so, well it's still not helping us to survive now, so some of our behavior then isn't about surviving, some of it is all about dying.
Survival isn't an absolute, no matter how much they try to stretch it.
Just as there are many things in the body that don't help us survive at all, like cancers, or male nipples, or wisdom teeth.
Anybody can become angry - that is easy,
but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy. -Aristotle
Take the whole human population, 100% which is at present 7+ billion then ask what is the % or number that is living with a drive to die prematuredly, i.e. those who are suicidal.
Note the suicide rates around the World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... icide_rate
The highest is from Sri Lanka at 34.6 per 100,000.
That is 0.0346%.
From the above insignificant % of suicides, one can infer the majority 99.97% strive to survive in some forms or another.
We can also infer the purpose of human life is to survive at all costs as based on evidence of how humans strive to survive.
It is also evident humans are endowed with males and females parts to reproduce.
Here again note the numbers of homosexuals and asexuals which at most is about 10%.
Thus 90% of human will have the drive to reproduce the next generation.
There are parts in the body that do not seem to contribute to survival, reproducing and sustaining oneself and the next generation, e.g. appendix but these are merely side issues and not elements of the main issues.
In addition, I have asked, which species of living thing emerged to seek extinction immediately? Answer is none.
Another point is nature is anchored on large numbers to ensure the success of its 'objectives' [as abstracted, not teleological]. Obviously with nature there will be variations but the majority are always driven along its main purpose, i.e. survival and reproduction of the next generation.
Thus those who are able to abstract the purpose of life and flow with it as much as possible, one will leave a very meaningful life.
If and when we want to go against the grains of survival and reproductions, we need to understand its limits and work at it optimally. Example, a homosexual may not have any urge to have sex with the other sex and reproduce, so one has to navigate within those constraints to achieve the optimal results to have a meaningful life.
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