Reality - Version 0.1

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: Reality - Version 0.

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:17 am

James S Saint wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Give me time to remember the posts...

I already know the one where you said you understood every reason why I have every thought I have and how you understand how it's all wrong.

The "retard" one was about 6 months ago...

That's when I started posting negatively towards you.

I'll find it.

I'll wait.


In your case, you insulted me the same way that math guy used to insult people, the mods couldn't warn him for it because it was an encrypted insult, even though flannel Jesus agreed with me that his insult was actually WORSE than calling someone a moron... the thing that finally got him the boot, was him making up quotes with my name on them and arguing them!! That was some crazy shit...

Problem is... with the thing that pissed me off, the usual keywords aren't working, it was an encrypted insult like that math guy used to use.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6785
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:20 am

I know it's there, because I don't get pissed at people for no reason, and on several occasions you helped me in support... I don't flip switches like that for no reason...

I might be able to find it by searching my own posts for when I consistently started always say "James said x and here's why he's wrong". I started doing that after the fact...
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6785
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:21 am

Oh, I see. Your excuse for not finding any actual evidence to support your accusation is that my comments were "encrypted". Can you provide some kind of evidence for that?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25570
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:44 am

James S Saint wrote:Oh, I see. Your excuse for not finding any actual evidence to support your accusation is that my comments were "encrypted". Can you provide some kind of evidence for that?


The search function won't let me find the part where you dismissed my argument without argument and said "I know why you are doing this (made this thread) without even explaining it... I know it's in science, but search won't let me use "I know why you" because the words are too common *so I'm combing science threads". Although, it might also be when I challenged everyone on the board combined to debate me... memory doesn't serve well.

I literally flipped a switch on you James...

You basically pulled a uccisore on me once, I was very hurt by it, and I immediately started making threads calling you out ...

It makes no sense from our prior sorta amiable interactions that I'd flip a switch like that...

I'll find these posts
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6785
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:50 am

While you are fumbling around, see if you can find that time when you said that I called you "stupid" and I replied that I certainly did not. You didn't find any evidence that time either .. which is why I am asking now.


And yes, you do actually get angry at people without valid reasons. You find yourself angry and then attempt to think up an excuse for it. Many here do that same thing (FC for example).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25570
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:06 am

Actually, you know what James...

Damn I'm fucking nuts...

Even if I could find what insulted me so much, I've said a lot of stupid shit on these boards

I still have kinks...

Absurdities...

Grudges...

*sigh*

I cracked mentally...

Thinking about how much pressure I have to step out of my own shadow...

Which isn't your fault
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6785
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: Reality - Version 0.1

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am

Shit happens dude. Don't worry about it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25570
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Engineering: Redundancy Rules

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:35 pm

    My thoughts:

    James S Saint wrote:Shit happens dude. Don't worry about it.

    I like this - it is true - shit does happen. Sometimes it is very difficult to not worry about it.

    We must be courageous and strong if we are to find the truth. I have much faith in James' words.

    I did not get very far into reading about RM:AO before I realized I had discovered something special.


    I don't think you are fucking nuts Ecmandu.

    Ecmandu wrote:Nobody really knows yet how birds, bats and schools of fish etc... organize so elegantly and precisely...

    This would be right up there with my favorite things I have read on this forum.


    Now I am going to babble on a little:

      I do not know "nothing" and I do not know "everything". All I understand is somewhere in between.

    I find that the following does not always work out quite the way I expect:

      "Treat others how you wish to be treated"

    But with courage I press on because the truth is more important to me than my own self esteem at the moment.
    For me: dealing with my limits is a measure of my maturity.

    I have been known to be wrong on many occasions - I have written and said some things that equate to nonsense - but I try to remain courageous and strong.


    Following is an example of a few things that I have been inspired to write and yet I can see some error in them.

    Some inchoate thoughts:

      I am not even certain where this one came from: 1 -> 1 V 0

      RM:AO has even put my mind to: Condensed matter physics

      For some reason my mind drifted over: Zero Point Space - some sort of construct that entered my mind.

      Let us assume that our Metaspace is actually Zero Point Space

      Now lets define the Zero Point Space

      The Zero Point Space is a hypothetical space devoid of indivisible points - complete - each point is infinitely divisible.

    Contemplation being considered for entrance into my own philosophy:

    Our mind is able to direct our next step. Each step we take is changing the dimension of mind. When deciding on the next step we employ our logic and emotion based on the reality that we are experiencing at the given time. Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.

    Our confinive reality is bound to space, scope and time. Where we are at contains our horizon limited by the time we have been aware of such knowledge. Each location presents an opportunity to lessen our confinement - making the most of our time at any given location enables us to broaden our wisdom to be more fitting to any situation.

    Each subjective philosophy is relative to its confines and is able to find harmony outside of its limits. The individual wisdom is affected by each other individual wisdom and is only ever relative to the absolute. The desire of absolute knowledge is the mind's drive to be free of imperfection and distraction; this desire is volumetric and contained within each subjective lifespan.

    Socializing is the function of the less limited individual who seeks to know because absolute reality encompasses objective reality which is constituted of the various approximations from subjective reality. Respect then should be driven by a great interest in socializing - to find harmony outside of oneself.

    I am also considering what the "Limitations of free will" might be.

    Currently I believe:

      ► Everything known was once unknown.

    :-k

    I also believe there is much more to discover about ourselves and our collective reality.
    It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
    (Anomaly654 - 2017)

    But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
    - which is to say there is always meaning.

    (gib - 2017)

    Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
    (Myself - 2017)
    User avatar
    encode_decode
    Thinker
     
    Posts: 969
    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
    Location: Metaspace

    Re: Reality - Version 0.1

    Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:17 pm

    The implications of interaction is that observation changes intersubjective reality for everyone and not just a single individuals perspective.
    Ecmandu
    ILP Legend
     
    Posts: 6785
    Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

    Re: Reality - Version 0.1

    Postby encode_decode » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:20 am

      James

      It is likely that I will come back over parts of this again - but for now I want to make a few comments on what I have read and reignite the conversation.

      After this we can come back to the language substrata as I think it is a valuable tool for leaping into the depths of RM:AO - we can further the concept of affectance density fields as this seems like the more counter intuitive thing for me - I will say however I recognize where we have touched on this already - I appreciate that RM:AO is actually pretty simple but it is always good to have plenty of philosophical substance underlying the physical principles - that way the physics can be honed when the time comes.

      A ToE is actually whatever manages to make sense of it all; quantum, relative, or otherwise. In that sense, RM:AO is certainly a ToE. But both ToE and GUT tend to be used merely for physics models, nothing else. RM:AO doesn't stop there. RM:AO provides a unifying theory encompassing ALL sciences, society, religion, psychology, and even economics .. and that is what I call "Grand" and "Everything".

      GToE - I like it. I appreciate that the GUT and ToE are used merely for Physics models - but it certainly helps me to have some sort of reference point to work from. What I see at the heart of Physics, is that we are working with two interchangeable factors - energy and matter - so I see the benefit to taking a further leap into one factor id est "affectance" and an arrangement of it, "PtA". For me it even becomes somewhat spiritual in nature.

      First simply because "people" haven't heard of RM:AO. Secondly, until "They say", 99% of people will just assume that they are too incapable of thinking for themselves so whatever the current elite or famous say must be the real truth. They don't actually try, although will argue endlessly of the righteousness of the famed elite.

      Yes - arguing other peoples theories in favor of the person they are interacting with seems pretty typical to me. Open eyes allow for falsehoods and falsehoods allow for refined truths. Where there are good results the proverbial "finger" is pointing at the truth but that does not mean it is pointing at the actual truth - it could be the truth with a missing factor or perhaps one too many factors. I like RM:AO because it narrows things down quite considerably and gives a fresh starting point to analyze from the bottom up any argument but even from the top down things can be analyzed with RM:AO in mind to sift out inaccuracies.

      Thirdly, and more importantly, RM:AO undermines the very notion of forces (as Einstein preferred). People are taught from birth about the forces, especially electrical and gravitational. They take it that these forces have been very demonstrated and proven for hundreds of years now. It takes a philosopher to see through such ingrained programming and realize what "proof" actually requires and why it might seem a proven ontology while not actually ever having been proven. The use of mathematics keeps most people accepting and revering theories as factual, not realizing that the math floats around on top of and after the ontology. And once a theory has become the concurrent mindset, it is difficult for people to see reality any other way. People are not taught to understand that there are many potential ontologies, all of which could be simultaneously true (as long as they are not mixed). RM:AO is a different mindset.

      This is actually where I am coming from - amazingly enough - and being taught from an early age these things become ingrained so it is hard to see things any other way. The current paradigm to me is more about approximations rather than absolute truth. Just the same I am sure the mathematics if used in a more pure sense is able to quantify RM:AO. Reality is what it is all about though so if we seek to understand it properly then we can not afford to live the previously mentioned falsehoods forever - flaws are flaws, no matter how negligible. I can see what you mean by many potential ontologies and RM:AO being a different mindset.

      Fourthly, for any theory to gain significant popular attention, it must be useful to military science first. Everyone is willing to say, "well maybe" until the theory is actually used to blow something up, then it becomes a reality to be attended and defended .. much like political factions and religions.

      Military Science aside, I think that RM:AO is able to help the philosopher come to more accurate conclusions about what he/she is thinking.

      And all of that above, in RM:AO terms reduces to be merely an issue of Sociological "Impedance Matching" .. a very significant concern in AO.

      Could you elaborate on Sociological "Impedance Matching" for me? Given how significant a concern it is in AO . . .

      :-k

      The brain has been kick started again . . .
      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
      - which is to say there is always meaning.

      (gib - 2017)

      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
      (Myself - 2017)
      User avatar
      encode_decode
      Thinker
       
      Posts: 969
      Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
      Location: Metaspace

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:03 pm

      encode_decode wrote:Could you elaborate on Sociological "Impedance Matching" for me? Given how significant a concern it is in AO . . .

      AO uses the term "impedance matching" exactly as it is used in audio and electronic engineering. Every transfer of effort, affect, or energy from anything to anything else is met with at least a tiny impediment. That impediment is the inherent cause of time and why it is that literally all actions require time. Truly instantaneous change is impossible.

      Social movements, intentional or not, constitute propagations of affect, energy, or effort. Every social movement is met with at least a tiny degree of impedance to the change. And that unavoidable impediment demands time for the transfer to take place.

      The term "impedance matching" refers to ensuring that just the right amount of force to change is applied, not too much and not too little, such as to allow for the least distortion and most efficient and complete transfer of energy, effort, or affect. Every change in impedance during a propagation causes a mismatch between the flowing effort causing the change and the inherent impedance to the change. That mismatch distorts the "signal" - distorts the precision of the information or effort being relayed. And then it also demands that more energy be provided in order to maintain the complete propagation.

      When changes are pushed too hard, there are residual consequences that might include a "backfire" or "kickback" effect (as the liberal hand of the recent USA election demonstrated). Push too much to the left and life will push back too much to the right and vsvrsa. The lesson being, "Don't try too hard. Give it time, else it will take even more. Be precise and patient". And equally, if too little effort is made, all of the energy is used up without sufficient results.

      Such is a fundamental nature and principle of the universe, a true "god"; "All things take time and energy". The sacrifice to that particular god is to supply just the right amount of energy and patiently wait just the right amount of time before expecting results. The punishment for offending that god is a degree of chaos, confusion, frustration and potentially death depending upon the degree of mismatching and circumstance. To pray to that god is to study and attend to what changes are being provoked and what impediments reside in the path - to look before one leaps - to clear the path before one attempts the path - to accept responsibility for results - to earn one's progress - to not want for what isn't to be had - to attempt only what can be accomplished - to live the rules of "afflate engagement". Some have called it the distinction between going to Heaven or going to Hell. :wink:
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 25570
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:29 pm

      James S Saint wrote:Shit happens dude. Don't worry about it.


      But would you reflect on why it happened in the first place?

      Some might do THAT and some might simply sweep it under the carpet. Can you even imagine THAT? LOL
      SAPERE AUDE!


      If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


      What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

      Thomas Nagel


      I learn as I write!
      User avatar
      Arcturus Descending
      Consciousness Seeker
       
      Posts: 14907
      Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
      Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby James S Saint » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:40 am

      Arcturus Descending wrote:
      James S Saint wrote:Shit happens dude. Don't worry about it.


      But would you reflect on why it happened in the first place?

      Some might do THAT and some might simply sweep it under the carpet. Can you even imagine THAT? LOL

      And exactly what leads you to the conclusion that I had not already considered that long before the encounter began? :-k
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 25570
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:55 pm

      James S Saint wrote:
      Arcturus Descending wrote:
      James S Saint wrote:Shit happens dude. Don't worry about it.


      But would you reflect on why it happened in the first place?

      Some might do THAT and some might simply sweep it under the carpet. Can you even imagine THAT? LOL

      And exactly what leads you to the conclusion that I had not already considered that long before the encounter began? :-k


      I asked "Would you", James.
      My post was simply based on your above response - "Don't worry about it". THAT response appears to have drawn things to a conclusion without any thought or consideration.
      SAPERE AUDE!


      If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


      What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

      Thomas Nagel


      I learn as I write!
      User avatar
      Arcturus Descending
      Consciousness Seeker
       
      Posts: 14907
      Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
      Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby Amorphos » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:26 pm

      Hi

      My questions here are: Is GOD the entity that manipulates, creates, describes, or implements others? . . OR . . . Is GOD the metacosm?


      I could visualize an infinity and universe then consider them to be distinctive, if not completely apart from one another. Then to get universe from ‘metaspace’/infinity, something has to do the impossible, ~ so like a God then. When we look at these things in their own right, the infinite is only the infinite and the finite is only the finite. Thing is, I could equally consider a metaphoric sphere, one which I could extend lines from. Those lines could be of any length infinite or not, and with sets thereof. So now you can have one object which can be both infinite and finite!

      There can’t be two or more things at root, ergo whatever the ultimate nature of reality is, it is one thing. So I don’t see how you can get ‘God’ from that.

      1 is 1, but god + us + things/universe is many, and if we change our definition of God to suit, it is no longer God et al.
      _
      The truth is naked,
      Once it is written it is lost.
      Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
      The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
      the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
      User avatar
      Amorphos
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 7048
      Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:49 pm
      Location: infinity

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:47 pm

      Ecmandu wrote:
      The implications of interaction is that observation changes inter subjective reality for everyone and not just a single individuals perspective

      Inter subjective does not automatically mean everyone will think exactly the same about what they observe
      They might and in general probably do but there is alway the possibility that someone will think differently
      Also inter subjective reality is not reality as such so one should avoid confusing the map with the territory
      A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
      surreptitious57
      Philosopher
       
      Posts: 1931
      Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

      Re: Reality - Version 0.1

      Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:00 pm

        James

        Now where were we? I am just going to throw something out there - I hope it makes sense - if not I will go back over it.

        James S Saint wrote:My apologies if I seemed condescending.

        Oh no . . . I did not take it as condescending at all. I was actually hoping you would not take my response as rude in any way.

        James S Saint wrote:So I laid out the language substrata so we could see where we each were.

        Yes, I really like this idea . . . there is a small gap in communications I have noticed.

        James S Saint wrote:Realize that in current Newtonian physics, a "field" is a "force field", a topography of the mythical force vectors. RM:AO has no such force vectors, thus no "force fields". RM:AO has affectance density fields, much like the humidity density of clouds or of people in a city. There is no "action at a distance" in AO (Einstein would have loved AO).

        I understand the topography of force vectors. I have contemplated what you are saying about cloud density and I will make a response soon.

        I am curious about dispersion through 3D space. You say the affectance waves are always longitudinal - I am having a hard time trying to visualize dispersion. Affectance itself must undergo dispersion in any direction - even in your models I see dispersion - is this a language substrata problem? The coalesced aggregates are what is confusing me here; I don't see a minimum size to the aggregate elements, provided there is one.

        Let me know if I need to rethink this - it has been a week since I last looked at anything.
          It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
          (Anomaly654 - 2017)

          But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
          - which is to say there is always meaning.

          (gib - 2017)

          Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
          (Myself - 2017)
          User avatar
          encode_decode
          Thinker
           
          Posts: 969
          Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
          Location: Metaspace

          Re: Reality - Version 0.1

          Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:20 pm

            James

            For your information: Most of my last post was legit.

            The paragraph down the bottom I was poking a stick - I am sure you knew that.

            It was indeed my use of the word carrier that messed things up.

            James S Saint wrote:Actually I am hoping that I am making some sense. RM:AO is actually pretty simple, but once the mind is infected with current complex physics imagery, it can be difficult to see how simple the real picture is.

            You are making sense but as you say the mind can become infected. Once the ambiguity is removed then all is fine. After reading over this post again - it is starting to make more sense as is usually the case.

            I have also been busy with other things. Including things away from this forum - that cannot be helped - my living circumstance is not so great at the moment.

            - - - - -

            OK, I think I get this.

            James S Saint wrote:AO uses the term "impedance matching" exactly as it is used in audio and electronic engineering. Every transfer of effort, affect, or energy from anything to anything else is met with at least a tiny impediment. That impediment is the inherent cause of time and why it is that literally all actions require time. Truly instantaneous change is impossible.

            Originally I was asking about the sociological side - but I see that the implications here go much deeper. The "Truly instantaneous change is impossible." I will have to think about more. But I think I get your gist.

            James S Saint wrote:Social movements, intentional or not, constitute propagations of affect, energy, or effort. Every social movement is met with at least a tiny degree of impedance to the change. And that unavoidable impediment demands time for the transfer to take place.

            I can see this quite clearly.

            James S Saint wrote:The term "impedance matching" refers to ensuring that just the right amount of force to change is applied, not too much and not too little, such as to allow for the least distortion and most efficient and complete transfer of energy, effort, or affect. Every change in impedance during a propagation causes a mismatch between the flowing effort causing the change and the inherent impedance to the change. That mismatch distorts the "signal" - distorts the precision of the information or effort being relayed. And then it also demands that more energy be provided in order to maintain the complete propagation.

            What do you mean here by signal?

            James S Saint wrote:When changes are pushed too hard, there are residual consequences that might include a "backfire" or "kickback" effect (as the liberal hand of the recent USA election demonstrated). Push too much to the left and life will push back too much to the right and vsvrsa. The lesson being, "Don't try too hard. Give it time, else it will take even more. Be precise and patient". And equally, if too little effort is made, all of the energy is used up without sufficient results.

            I take it you are being figurative about energy being used up.

            James S Saint wrote:Such is a fundamental nature and principle of the universe, a true "god"; "All things take time and energy". The sacrifice to that particular god is to supply just the right amount of energy and patiently wait just the right amount of time before expecting results. The punishment for offending that god is a degree of chaos, confusion, frustration and potentially death depending upon the degree of mismatching and circumstance. To pray to that god is to study and attend to what changes are being provoked and what impediments reside in the path - to look before one leaps - to clear the path before one attempts the path - to accept responsibility for results - to earn one's progress - to not want for what isn't to be had - to attempt only what can be accomplished - to live the rules of "afflate engagement". Some have called it the distinction between going to Heaven or going to Hell. :wink:

            I like this illustration. :wink:

            I do have more questions to go over with you. If you could just help me clear the signal thing up that would be great. I might not be reading it right - it seems that we do use language a little differently.
            It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
            (Anomaly654 - 2017)

            But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
            - which is to say there is always meaning.

            (gib - 2017)

            Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
            (Myself - 2017)
            User avatar
            encode_decode
            Thinker
             
            Posts: 969
            Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
            Location: Metaspace

            Re: Reality - Version 0.1

            Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:59 am

            .
            Sorry, for some strange reason, my eyes keep overlooking this thread .. Hmmm...

            encode_decode wrote:You say the affectance waves are always longitudinal - I am having a hard time trying to visualize dispersion. Affectance itself must undergo dispersion in any direction - even in your models I see dispersion - is this a language substrata problem? The coalesced aggregates are what is confusing me here; I don't see a minimum size to the aggregate elements, provided there is one.

            No, affectance does not "always" disperse as it propagates, but it would eventually disperse. When propagating toward a higher density ambient gradient, affectance puffs, pulses, or waves actually converge. This is why the concerns of Relativity take place. Time and distance measurements "compress" as the ambient affectance density increases (such as coming closer to a large mass or into "dark-matter"). Light photons (large puffs of affectance) largely maintain their size as they propagate although eventually disperse due to the uneven distribution of ambient affectance through which the photon must travel for trillions of miles.

            There is no minimum size of affectance afflates. An afflate is merely a small oblate portion of an affectance field isolated merely for study. An afflate is not a actual particle or entity and any ultra-minuscule portion can be chosen. By choosing millions of afflates and watching their "natural" behavior, the behavior of affectance fields, subatomic particles and their formation can be observed. It can be seen that while a puff of affectance cloud passes through unevenly distributed ambient affectance, the puff begins to disperse (the afflates begin to separate more). And as that same puff begins to enter a more dense region of space, the afflates that make up the puff begin to converge. In the long run, the puff will very gradually lose more than it gains and become merely a bit of the "cosmic background radiation", CBR.


            encode_decode wrote:my living circumstance is not so great at the moment.

            ..Sympathies.

            encode_decode wrote:
            James S Saint wrote:The term "impedance matching" refers to ensuring that just the right amount of force to change is applied, not too much and not too little, such as to allow for the least distortion and most efficient and complete transfer of energy, effort, or affect. Every change in impedance during a propagation causes a mismatch between the flowing effort causing the change and the inherent impedance to the change. That mismatch distorts the "signal" - distorts the precision of the information or effort being relayed. And then it also demands that more energy be provided in order to maintain the complete propagation.

            What do you mean here by signal?

            "Signal" is merely a euphemism for "information" or "effort" or "whatever is propagating".

            encode_decode wrote:
            James S Saint wrote:When changes are pushed too hard, there are residual consequences that might include a "backfire" or "kickback" effect (as the liberal hand of the recent USA election demonstrated). Push too much to the left and life will push back too much to the right and vsvrsa. The lesson being, "Don't try too hard. Give it time, else it will take even more. Be precise and patient". And equally, if too little effort is made, all of the energy is used up without sufficient results.

            I take it you are being figurative about energy being used up.

            Perhaps we use the word "energy" differently too. To me "energy" means "effort" or "work", whether from life or anything else.
            Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
            Else
            From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

            The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

            You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
            The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
            It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
            As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

            Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
            Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

            The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
            .
            James S Saint
            ILP Legend
             
            Posts: 25570
            Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

            Re: Reality - Version 0.1

            Postby encode_decode » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:05 am

              I hope you don't mind James, I saw this in another thread and thought I would make a copy so as not to forget it.

              James S Saint wrote:The scriptural word "spirit" merely refers to "behavior". Anywhere a particular behavior arises, the same "spirit" appears (just an issue of definition of the words). The eternal portion of a person is in two forms, "soul" and "spirit". The soul is merely the conceptual definition of the person, their conceptual essence (e.g. "a good person who likes fishing and chasing hot women").

              All concepts are always eternal, thus all souls are eternal. A perfect circle is always what a perfect circle is and any particular kind of person is always that particular kind of person. A person can change which kind they are until the person's body dies. Then they are forevermore whatever they last were.

              Spirits are a little different in that a spirit, a behavior, can come and go. A spirit is physical and literally moves about (and yes some form of body is required). That is where you get those ghost stories. A "ghost" is a "ghe-host", a "spirit host", or "the behavior that occupies the body" and in computers would be their "programming". These days, you are more likely to hear of it as "an attitude". Behaviors and attitudes pop up all over and wheresoever one of them reflects a familiar tone, therein lies a familiar spirit, perhaps of one once loved (or hated). The universe can never be totally void of any spirit that has ever been, nor of any that will ever be, thus in a mathematically provable sense, everyone's spirit shall always be eternal. The question is within what environment will they struggle (aka "Heavenly or Hellish")?

              Forgive me if I am wrong but I could somehow see RM:AO here too hence why I copied it.
              It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
              (Anomaly654 - 2017)

              But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
              - which is to say there is always meaning.

              (gib - 2017)

              Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
              (Myself - 2017)
              User avatar
              encode_decode
              Thinker
               
              Posts: 969
              Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
              Location: Metaspace

              Re: Reality - Version 0.1

              Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:15 am

              encode_decode wrote:Forgive me if I am wrong but I could somehow see RM:AO here too hence why I copied it.

              Continue awakening, and you will see RM:AO in literally everything.
              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
              Else
              From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

              The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

              You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
              The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
              It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
              As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

              Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
              Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

              The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
              .
              James S Saint
              ILP Legend
               
              Posts: 25570
              Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

              Re: Reality - Version 0.1

              Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:11 am

                James

                This may seem pedantic to you but it is extremely important to me that we keep things very clear.

                James S Saint wrote:To me, the word "metaspace" (aka "virtual space") refers to the conceptual space, usually Euclidean space. God, and all "angels" are concepts that "exist in" the "Divine" or "Conceptual Realm" of ideas, concepts, and/or principles that govern physical behavior.

                I can not use the word virtual in the context of our conversation unless it relates to the word divine. Because virtual is also in the sense ‘possessing certain virtues’. Virtual space is not perfect like metaspace as I understand it from your paragraph and my understanding. Virtual Space in the context of computing and physics can not be perfect owing to lack of precision leading to perfection. Virtual Space to me lives in our realm inside of our devices or on paper or what ever other medium you can think of to portray it. We transcend the virtual space in that regard but the metaspace would transcend even us. A lot of ambiguity because if in the sense ‘possessing certain virtues’ then to me virtues belong in metaspace. Virtual as it relates to the divine would suggest lack of corruption - as it applies to our realm I suggest with corruption.

                In the context of computing or physics however I would be happy to use the word virtual. Due to this I read your paragraph as follows:

                To me, the word "metaspace" refers to the conceptual space, usually Euclidean space. God, and all "angels" are concepts that "exist in" the "Divine" or "Conceptual Realm" of ideas, concepts, and/or principles that govern physical behavior.

                I would say that our understanding of totality is incomplete; we can however understand it in a relative sense. We use our representations to understand totality in a relative sense. Would you disagree?

                Maybe I get too hung up on hierarchy but the Seraphim are below GOD - Metaspace is above Virtual Space. Failing this I do believe that we can still work in such a way that brings about clarity in a relative sense.
                It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                - which is to say there is always meaning.

                (gib - 2017)

                Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                (Myself - 2017)
                User avatar
                encode_decode
                Thinker
                 
                Posts: 969
                Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
                Location: Metaspace

                Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:19 am

                  Indeed.

                  James S Saint wrote:Continue awakening, and you will see RM:AO in literally everything.

                  I am sure you are correct. So far I have no reason to doubt you.
                  It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                  (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                  But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                  - which is to say there is always meaning.

                  (gib - 2017)

                  Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                  (Myself - 2017)
                  User avatar
                  encode_decode
                  Thinker
                   
                  Posts: 969
                  Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
                  Location: Metaspace

                  Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                  Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:42 am

                  encode_decode wrote:
                    James

                    This may seem pedantic to you but it is extremely important to me that we keep things very clear.
                    James S Saint wrote:To me, the word "metaspace" (aka "virtual space") refers to the conceptual space, usually Euclidean space. God, and all "angels" are concepts that "exist in" the "Divine" or "Conceptual Realm" of ideas, concepts, and/or principles that govern physical behavior.

                    I can not use the word virtual in the context of our conversation unless it relates to the word divine. Because virtual is also in the sense ‘possessing certain virtues’. Virtual space is not perfect like metaspace as I understand it from your paragraph and my understanding.

                    Well emmm, okay.

                    Virtual == not identical to but possessing the essential qualities or virtues.
                    Metaspace == idealized or conceptual space.

                    Both imply attributes that are not physically real in detail, but I'm not married to either word. I don't own the language.

                    encode_decode wrote:I would say that our understanding of totality is incomplete; we can however understand it in a relative sense. We use our representations to understand totality in a relative sense. Would you disagree?

                    Perhaps we disagree on the word "understand". :wink:

                    To "under-stand" is not to know every detail, but rather to have a fundamental grasp upon which details and particulars gain grounding and relevance, a conceptual foundation and footing. RM:AO reveals an infinitely precise foundation upon which the details and particulars of any given real situation can be understood. Precisely what you mean by "totality" is not clear to me. I am certain that there are an infinity of particulars within the totality of the universe that RM:AO doesn't reveal or describe. RM:AO is about the fundamental form, make-up, or under-standing of all existence (an "ontology"). Whether the Moon is made of cheese or cholesterol wouldn't be something that RM:AO would directly reveal.

                    encode_decode wrote:Maybe I get too hung up on hierarchy but the Seraphim are below GOD.

                    Both RM and separately AO are "seraphims" relating to "GOD".
                    encode_decode wrote:Metaspace is above Virtual Space.

                    .. if you like.
                    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                    Else
                    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

                    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

                    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
                    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
                    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
                    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

                    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
                    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

                    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
                    .
                    James S Saint
                    ILP Legend
                     
                    Posts: 25570
                    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

                    Re: Reality - Version 0.1

                    Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:54 am

                      Our version of understanding is not too disparate. I think we can compare easily. Let us start with totality.

                      James S Saint wrote:I am certain that there are an infinity of particulars within the totality of the universe that RM:AO doesn't reveal or describe.

                      I totally agree with you here by way of what we can not imagine yet.

                      I am not so certain though that RM:AO doesn't describe these particulars. I understand that it may not be able to reveal the said particulars.

                      James S Saint wrote:Precisely what you mean by "totality" is not clear to me.

                      Let me build a theme for you before finishing with my own interpretation of how RM:AO fits in to the grand scheme of things.

                      Because I feel lazy at the moment I pasted the following from Wikipedia. I will say however that this is a great representation of what I mean.

                      Totality and Infinity - Start

                      Emmanuel Levinas in his work: Totality and Infinity: An Essay on Exteriority

                      The Other

                      Levinas advances the thesis that all ethics derive from a confrontation with an other. This other, with whom we interact concretely, represents a gateway into the more abstract Otherness.

                      The distinction between totality and infinity divides the limited world, which contains the other as a material body, from a spiritual world. Subjects gain access to this spiritual world, infinity, by opening themselves to the Otherness of the other. For example:

                        To approach the other in conversation is to welcome his expression, in which at each instant he overflows the idea a thought would carry away from it. It is therefore to receive from the Other beyond the capacity of the I, which means exactly: to have the idea of infinity. (p. 51)

                      Presence

                      Levinas places heavy emphasis on the physical presence involved in meeting the other. He argues that only a face-to-face encounter allows true connection with Infinity, because of the incessance of this type of interaction. Written words and other words do not suffice because they have become past by the time the subject perceives them. That is: they have fallen into the register of totality.

                      Jacques Derrida, in "Violence and Metaphysics," takes Levinas to task for this assumption, arguing characteristically that writing might be at least as sacred as speech.

                      Totality and Infinity - Finish

                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                      As it relates to the Absolute - Start

                      In philosophy, metaphysics, religion, spirituality, and other contexts, the Absolute is a term for the most real being. The Absolute is conceived as being itself or perhaps the being that transcends and comprehends all other beings.

                      While there is agreement that there must be some fundamental reality, there is disagreement as to what exactly that might be. For example, some theist philosophers argue that the most real being is a personal God. Some pantheist philosophers argue that the most real being is an impersonal existence, such as reality or awareness. Others (such as perennial philosophers) argue that various similar terms and concepts designate to the same Absolute entity. Atheist, agnostic, and scientific pantheist philosophers might argue that some mathematical property or natural law such as gravity or simply nature itself is the most real being

                      As it relates to the Absolute - End

                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                      My Own Interpretation - Simply put: “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.”

                      The way I see it RM:AO helps us to explain everything as opposed to nothing; this would include the conceptual and the physical.

                      Also taken from Wikipedia: Everything (or every thing), is all that exists; the opposite of nothing, or its complement. It is the totality of things relevant to some subject matter. Without expressed or implied limits, it may refer to anything. The Universe is everything that exists theoretically, though a multiverse may exist according to theoretical cosmology predictions. It may refer to an anthropocentric worldview, or the sum of human experience, history, and the human condition in general. Every object and entity is a part of everything, including all physical bodies and in some cases all abstract objects.

                      Whether you see it or not I am saying that I believe totality is all of the above and more and RM:AO is able to help us understand that totality. This is the prime reason why RM:AO is special to me . . . Now despite what I believe I am still able to come to a more complete understanding of RM:AO.

                      As surreptitious57 says: Agree or disagree it makes no difference to me.

                      :lol:

                      In any case and no matter what, with regards to RM:AO: “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.”
                      It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                      (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                      But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                      - which is to say there is always meaning.

                      (gib - 2017)

                      Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                      (Myself - 2017)
                      User avatar
                      encode_decode
                      Thinker
                       
                      Posts: 969
                      Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
                      Location: Metaspace

                      PreviousNext

                      Return to Philosophy



                      Who is online

                      Users browsing this forum: No registered users