Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:22 pm

Aaron wrote:
I have lost my interest in this thread.


Aaron ... the unpleasant experiences in our lives are the most profitable ... the basis for the expression ..."never waste a good crisis".

The ancient Chinese believed crisis and opportunity were twins ... they always travel together ... never alone. This belief was so deep they used the same pictograph in both words.

The sad reality is most people are so caught up in the crisis element they have no inclination to look for the opportunity that tags along with the crisis.

Resistance doesn't help ... riding the waves ... like a California surfer does. :)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
User avatar
pilgrim-seeker_tom
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:16 am

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:25 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Aaron wrote:
I have lost my interest in this thread.


Aaron ... the unpleasant experiences in our lives are the most profitable ... the basis for the expression ..."never waste a good crisis".

The ancient Chinese believed crisis and opportunity were twins ... they always travel together ... never alone. This belief was so deep they used the same pictograph in both words.

The sad reality is most people are so caught up in the crisis element they have no inclination to look for the opportunity that tags along with the crisis.

Resistance doesn't help ... riding the waves ... like a California surfer does. :)


tom, you're on a big kahuna roll. :animals-fishblue: Thanks for making me :D .
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:33 pm

phyllo wrote:How can it be hypocrisy if they are consistent about it? An Epicurean simply says that peace of mind is more good than wealth - more pleasurable than the pleasure that wealth gives.


While reflecting on this yesterday I realized the word "hypocrisy" is misleading ... the word suggests conscious intent.

More accurately stated ... "Epicurean Psychological Firewalls ... the elephant in the room."

Reminds me of an experience several years ago ... chatting with a Chinese teenage girl ... about 16 years old ... conversational English training. This young girl was born into privilege yet retained a veneer of humility.

I asked her one day ... "Is your world OK ... not perfect ... yet OK?

She smiled and replied "Yes"

I than asked her ... "Is the world OK ... not perfect ... yet OK?"

With a look that said "Are you crazy" ... she replied with an adamant ... "NO!

Psychologists tell us our minds simply block from our view the "stuff" that is inconsistent with our personal world view.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
User avatar
pilgrim-seeker_tom
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:16 am

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:40 pm

eaglerising wrote:Pilgrim–seeker_tom if you discover what makes you uniquely different from the other 7.5 billion people on earth and develop it


Are you referring to what some label the "Journey of Self Discovery"? ... ergo "The Road Less Traveled" :)

I've been on this "less traveled road" ... goat trail ... for about 25 years ... have yet to meet a fellow "traveler".

OTH ... the 43 years I spent travelling the "super highways" the crowds were so dense I couldn't hear myself think. :)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
User avatar
pilgrim-seeker_tom
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:16 am

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:54 pm

More accurately stated ... "Epicurean Psychological Firewalls ... the elephant in the room."
Of course, I have no idea what you mean by this.

Epicureans define 'good' in a particular way. As a result they choose some things over others. I don't know how that would qualify as a "psychological firewall". :-?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:55 pm

encode_decode wrote:Arcturus Descending

I think you are a good person - perhaps I will give you my views of consciousness at a later date.


Thank you. I appreciate that.

That calls to mind a question here: What is a good person? albeit I do not want to derail this thread. Is a good person basically someone who strives to be "decent" for the most part?



Anyway, I look forward to you perhaps giving me your views of consciousness at a later date.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14673
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A snowy dark luminous landscape bathed in solitude

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:58 pm

That calls to mind a question here: What is a good person? albeit I do not want to derail this thread. Is a good person basically someone who strives to be "decent" for the most part?
What is "decent"?
What is "strives"?
How much is "most part"?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:32 pm

Phyllo,

=; I am horrified that you are asking Arc about decency as if her interactions do not portray any sense of online etiquette equaling decency.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:22 pm

I am horrified that you are asking Arc about decency as if her interactions do not portray any sense of online etiquette equaling decency.
Be as horrified as you want.

She substituted the word 'decent' for the word 'good' and said nothing about the word 'decent' means to her.

No doubt lots of people will both agree and disagree with her ... while having a completely different idea of what the word 'decent' means.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:34 pm

Who is good?

Someone who practices the virtues? Why or why not?

Roman virtues :

Personal Virtues

These are the qualities of life to which every Citizen (and, ideally, everyone else) should aspire. They are the heart of the Via Romana — the Roman Way — and are thought to be those qualities which gave the Roman Republic the moral strength to conquer and civilize the world. Today, they are the rods against which we can measure our own behavior and character, and we can strive to better understand and practice them in our everyday lives.

Auctoritas: "Spiritual Authority" The sense of one's social standing, built up through experience, Pietas, and Industria.

Comitas: "Humor" Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and friendliness.

Clementia: "Mercy" Mildness and gentleness.

Dignitas: "Dignity" A sense of self-worth, personal pride.

Firmitas: "Tenacity" Strength of mind, the ability to stick to one's purpose.

Frugalitas: "Frugalness" Economy and simplicity of style, without being miserly.

Gravitas: "Gravity" A sense of the importance of the matter at hand, responsibility and earnestness.

Honestas: "Respectibility" The image that one presents as a respectable member of society.

Humanitas: "Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being cultured.

Industria: "Industriousness" Hard work.

Pietas: "Dutifulness" More than religious piety; a respect for the natural order socially, politically, and religiously. Includes the ideas of patriotism and devotion to others.

Prudentia: "Prudence" Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.

Salubritas: "Wholesomeness" Health and cleanliness.

Severitas: "Sternness" Gravity, self-control.

Veritas: "Truthfulness" Honesty in dealing with others.

Public Virtues

In addition to the private virtues which were aspired to by individuals, Roman culture also strived to uphold Virtues which were shared by all of society in common. Note that some of the virtues to which individuals were expected to aspire are also public virtues to be sought by society as a whole. These virtues were often expressed by minting them on coinage; in this way, their message would be shared by all the Classical world. In many cases, these Virtues were personified as deities.

Abundantia: "Abundance, Plenty" The ideal of there being enough food and prosperity for all segments of society.

Aequitas: "Equity" Fair dealing both within government and among the people.

Bonus Eventus: "Good fortune" Rememberance of important positive events.

Clementia: "Clemency" Mercy, shown to other nations.

Concordia: "Concord" Harmony among the Roman people, and also between Rome and other nations.

Felicitas: "Happiness, prosperity" A celebration of the best aspects of Roman society.

Fides: "Confidence" Good faith in all commercial and governmental dealings.

Fortuna: "Fortune" An acknowledgement of positive events.

Genius: "Spirit of Rome" Acknowledgement of the combined spirit of Rome, and its people.

Hilaritas: "Mirth, rejoicing" An expression of happy times.

Justica: "Justice" As expressed by sensible laws and governance.

Laetitia: "Joy, Gladness" The celebration of thanksgiving, often of the resolution of crisis.

Liberalitas: "Liberality" Generous giving.

Libertas: "Freedom" A Virtue which has been subsequently aspired to by all cultures.

Nobilitas: "Noblility" Noble action within the public sphere.

Ops: "Wealth" Acknowledgement of the prosperity of the Roman world.

Patientia: "Endurance, Patience" The ability to weather storms and crisis.

Pax: "Peace" A celebration of peace among society and between nations.

Pietas: "Piety, Dutifulness" People paying honor to the gods.

Providentia: "Providence, Fortethought" The ability of Roman society to survive trials and manifest a greater destiny.

Pudicita: "Modesty, Chastity." A public expression which belies the accusation of "moral corruptness" in ancient Rome.

Salus: "Safety" Concern for public health and welfare.

Securitas: "Confidence, Security" Brought by peace and efficient governance.

Spes: "Hope" Especially during times of difficulty.

Uberitas: "Fertility" Particularly concerning agriculture.

Virtus: "Courage" Especially of leaders within society and government.

http://www.crystalinks.com/romanvirtues.html

Christian virtues :

Faith is belief in the right things (including the virtues!).
Hope is taking a positive future view, that good will prevail.
Charity is concern for, and active helping of, others.
Fortitude is never giving up.
Justice is being fair and equitable with others.
Prudence is care of and moderation with money.
Temperance is moderation of needed things and abstinence from things which are not needed.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/v ... irtues.htm
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:17 pm

So you skirt my reasoning as to Arc's online conduct representing decency...goodness...

I am horrified that you are asking Arc about decency as if her interactions do not portray any sense of online etiquette equaling decency.


as if it doesn't exist. How very liberal of you. Like I said, common sense is dead and people who ask such horrifying questions are evidence of that.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:22 pm

So you skirt my reasoning as to Arc's online conduct representing decency...goodness...
Decency and goodness are hard to gauge over the internet. Maybe she sells dalmatian fur jackets to support herself. Who knows?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:27 pm

So you are going with dishonesty? How very liberal.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:34 pm

I wonder why you post such things.

Dishonesty? Liberal? Really?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:36 pm

Do you really wonder? Doubtful. Arc behaves in a decent way online. What she does offline is not evidenced thoroughly, only online. You dispute her decency online?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:07 pm

You have called me dishonest twice in the last two weeks.

You really like to steer in that direction ... towards personal 'traits'. Even when I have tried to move the discussion back to philosophy, you kept it personal.

Even your defense of Arc is based on her personal characteristics rather than the philosophical concepts of 'goodness' or 'decency'.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:15 pm

How ought one to live?

Arc represents an example that you cannot deal with...obviously. Is real life and real people too difficult to compute?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:22 pm

Do you dispute Arc's decency online?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:31 pm

Strike three.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:33 pm

You just return to the bench then.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:36 pm

What do you care what I do?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:45 pm

I don't know why I ought to comment on someone's characteristics on the internet - aside from his/her knowledge and ability in philosophy. :-k
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 pm

phyllo wrote:What do you care what I do?


Tut, tut...go sit. :evilfun:

Why...is more like it. I'd like for all folks to be physically healthy, spiritually wealthy, and simply wise. Is that too much to ask for? I have high standards.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:48 pm

Your high standards are irrelevant to me.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Are we the Body, Mind, or Consciousness?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:52 pm

Your lack of standards are relevant to me though and to others who are irrelevant to you.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5657
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: WendyDarling