Unbearable Ambition

Ideally, I’m thinking that individuals can maintain their self-unity compatibly with others doing the same - such that they mutually increase the power of not just individual unity but social unity also. I wish to attract “accomplices” on these terms. I have found many thinkers, and whilst some have shown some kind of promise, I’m not sure any have shown the kind that I am interested in. Perhaps 1, maybe 2.

I assume that people with taste are only ever seeking those who are similar to themselves, or at least compatible. It is a common sentiment for the weak to despair at the lack of those who are like them, I know. However, this arises out of inability, which I do not suffer from. It does not sound like you suffer from inability either. You say you have been slightly more successful than I, I wonder why this is so. I do not regard it as a virtue in itself to be particularly individual, but perhaps you are slightly more similar to others than I. I think we agree that numbers are an advantage in realising ambition so perhaps you are in a better position.

Then I gave the wrong impression of my preliminary hypotheses being my final conclusion. I had not made up my mind, nor will I for a while to come, I suspect.

Note that this goes for anything I say - unless I explicitly state otherwise.

I seem to remember the best examples are in Ecce Homo, which regretably I borrowed when I read it, and it has long been returned.

However, I think Nietzsche’s philosophy can perhaps be entirely summed up as a philosophy of health. Master morality is a fuller expression of will to power, for example. Slave morality is very hindered, resulting in such illnesses as resentment and restricted ambition. Vulgarity as opposed to nobility has too much of the immediate animal impulse in decisions, as referred to in Twilight of the Idols (section 6, What the Germans Lack). Cruelty turns inward to turn the intellect against one’s instincts - rather than outward to cause fear (a virtue to master morality and vice to slave morality), as discussed in Beyond Good and Evil (Our Virtues 229 combined with What is Noble? 260).

I suspect that human (particularly mental) physiology is changing to select for those who thrive under conditions of slave morality.

I see a trend towards pair bonding relationships over tournament selection. The opposite sexes seem to be homogenising, which, for one, becomes increasingly incompatible for Capitalism - with the increased humility of the male sex and the rising demand for jobs in care whether of the disabled, other employees or just consumers in general.

Interesting that you are one who actually has experience in power. I would be interested with working with one who has such experience. I, myself, am merely too familiar with petty power.

I do not predict significant violent philosophy in the near future - not any of any note at least. This entire age is characterised by its lack of physicality. The current Western economic system is fundamentally based on lack of physical force - with as much of all else as possible. The major symptom of this is a sleepiness that permeates entire societies. This is not to say that violence does not happen, but if it is seen it is immediately demonised and dismissed - as something like adolescence or mental illness. If violence is what you are after, a transition is needed - possibly one of culling populations and severing technological communications. Like I said, I am not reactionary. Shock treatment is not yet appropriate.

The new philosophy would much more likely be a surreptitious infiltration. Far too few have a taste or even tolerance for anything else. This is how current power moves become successful. People even praise sneakiness.

In general terms I think that you are right in your observations, but - and this is Nietzsche at his most vital - exceptions are the measure of the world, the standards by which it behaves.

The Last Man is (amounts to, counts for) nothing, at least in historical terms. It will surely evolve during its presence and adapt to the circumstances its presence creates, but this only means that it will become weaker in the face of manipulations. It may become a very strong and healthy race in fact, but a race of servants, workers. Nobody has any other illusions - you as an example, of an independent mind which sees no other option than the last man. If I am the one to break this spell, so be it. I can live with the charges of arrogance - at least it is not hypocritical arrogance, which is the most deathly and ugly of all arrogances - indeed, sneakiness is praised here because one must hide it well - and far more dominant than real, honest arrogance and disproportional self-esteem. I realize very well that I am an ancient in taste, I have no understanding of civil piety among fellow strangers. I require clan, loyalty and warlike pride.

The last man is nothing, he knows he is nothing, he lives only for the function of consumption. He lives in times of material expertise, where skills to exploit the Earth are honed to the fullest, and no conscience has yet grown. No sap of love flows through his heart, only the short lived extacy of fat and sugar. All that counts is the present – but not the eternal, Dionysian present, although this is sought with zeal because the Horned God is known by all classes and kinds – and a conception of the future is utterly inconceivable. The courage and boldness needed to hypothesize with a justified looseness - control, to know what one is doing. That we now think that this is impossible is because we are the Last Men – but not everywhere, not all of us. I am positive that history is felt while it is in the making. and I think that this is what Nietzsche had in his heart when he thought of the Eternal Recurrence.

The ER is therefore a means to seek out people who share this feeling of necessity.

This reminds me of Lord Naritsugu character from 13 Assassins:

Lord Naritsugu, “Hanbei…You think the age of war was like this?”
Hanbei, “Perhaps”.
Lord Naritsugu, “It’s magnificent. With death comes gratitude for life. If a man has lived his life in vain, then how trivial his life is. Oh Hanbei. Something wonderful has come to my mind. Once I’m on the Shogun’s council, let’s bring back the age of war”.

(Though in his case, I think he was just numb, and his true desire was to feel alive again)

I can certainly relate to that desire, although in our age, military war is not something that enables the type of or expression of power and courage - on the battlefield, martial art is a thing of the past.

Such desire may be at the core of all ambition, if by ambition one does not mean things like greed, the desire for possessions, but the desire to accomplish, change the world in ones image.
To feel alive is perhaps no more than expending energy.

To wage war, yes – and as the Homeric wartale exemplifies, war is conquest, at root of it is desire, and desire must have a clearly outlined object for it to mobilize effective force. Plato’s philosophy was aimed at creating such objects, literally ideals. As Platopnic Idealism turned into the metaphysics of Christianity, the projection of ideals made possible the mad will of the the crusades, the self-chastizements, the absurdly dedicated artists and architects. But Platonism and Christianity have been broken down by science. We have no such objects for the most powerful drives anymore.

Philosophy, if it is to persist at all. must create once more such focal point, but it can no longer be a metaphysical one. It must be rooted in science, in the knowledge of physicality. Yet physicality alone can not provide philosophical intellectual, human meaning.

I find one gains much from such…It is a good source for networking to establish strong minded friends. It is a good means to imrpove writing and (to a degree)oration skills. And indeed to further one’s own thoughts and arguments.

You cannot use your sterngths if you won’t admit you have them. A smart person unwilling to admit to himself that he is smart won’t get far. I think it was once said, “You cannot become a king unless you think like a king.”

But I have found that the greatest person who does the greatest things can yet never be known. TO many people are focused on the idea that being a great effector on the world is followed by fame, that a unfamous person is powerless… this is not the case: Everything butterflies its effect and being far-sighted is sufficient for having great effect with little action. Besides there is that whole six degrees of separation… imagine how many people are influenced by a ‘slightly’ influential person using the offtopic.com forum… Of course fame has its uses…

craziness is just another word for beyond average… that can be above or below…most focus on the below part…

I believe Napoleon was a megalomaniac…

Yes abstract you are right. And my presence here has paid off… beyond expectation.

Ha, Yes! Very well said. This touches on one of the most interesting facets of this incredible philosophy experience, the sheer boldness that is needed for it, especially toward oneself.

Of course boldness alone does not make a king, but without it, no ruling is possible, in thought or otherwise. A king who is not bold can only parasite of what his predecessors (boldly) established.

It all depends on what one is famous for. If I would be a famous athlete, I would be in a far worse position than I am now. In fact I find myself in the ideal position – you are right that small movements may set big things in motion, given that they are movements. In thought, real movements are rare. And they almost never emerge from anywhere but the unknown. Establishments do usually not produce foundational thoughts.

It must have been an interesting man that one, I imagine one would learn a lot by talking to him. He certainly had the eyes to envision great things.

“In Plato’s Theages it is written: ‘Each one of us would like to be master over all men, if possible, and best of all God.’ This attitude must exist again.”
(Nietzsche, The Will to Power)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BBa_GHtNB0[/youtube]

Why is it so hard to have this attitude? Because our physiology, our trained responses, bind us to humility, to the conviction that we are humble creatures. We are not.

EDIT (this was clumsily phrased before, sorry abstract. I wasn’t really quoting anything.)

FC, I relate heavily with the sentiment in the OP. Don’t you think that helping the system grow is counter to it?

is that clip from a movie?

Abstract - it’s a teaser for the film Prometheus.

Pezer, before I can answer your question I need to know what you understand. Tell me what you think of “the system” in the terms of The Will to Power section 960.

Ideally, a short treatise of what exists and what “should” exist.

Perhaps your not, and Humility has power all it’s own, too much Ambition is like too much of any passion. Even if it Creates Wonders Or Causes Great destruction, the individual proves there own weaknees theough theire inebility to establish control over there passions. If a man cannot first master himself what else could he possibly accomplish with any competance?

What can we say to such a creature?

Study and Discipline.

edit: never mind. I have no idea who you are, you have obviously no idea who I am. Let’s not mix.

Stoic Guardian, simply dismissing you without justification will not do, I must explain myself, also for the sake of this thread and those who value it. I realize very well that your mind forces you to posit that someone who expresses something beyond what you can muster, as passion or as reason, is at fault, and that this forces you to invent the necessary context to sustain this idea. So you express your discontent and defile my thread. But I must make it clear, also to others, that this morality of the resentful is one of the main causes for the division of power in the word as it stands now.

Power belongs to those who do not condemn ambition. It is extracted from the masses by implanting in them the “Christian” idea that power and aspiration toward it is evil. I do not very often encounter so directly as in Stoic Guardian an expression of this morality, this explicit rejection of value-creating. It is one of the most un-hygienic type of encounters. It reminds me of what Nietzsche says about the underprivileged:
[size=90]“Take a look into the background of every family, every corporation, every community - everywhere you see the struggle of the sick against the healthy, a quiet struggle, for the most part, with a little poison powder, with needling, with deceitful expressions of long suffering, but now and then also with that sick man’s Pharisaic tactic of loud gestures, whose favourite role is “noble indignation.” It likes to make itself heard all the way into the consecrated rooms of science, that hoarse, booming indignation of the pathologically ill hound, the biting insincerity and rage of such “noble” Pharisees (once again I remind readers who have ears of Eugene Duhring, that apostle of revenge from Berlin, who in today’s Germany makes the most indecent and most revolting use of moralistic gibberish - Duhring, the pre-eminent moral braggart we have nowadays, even among those like him, the anti-Semites). They are all men of resentment, these physiologically impaired and worm-eaten men, a totally quivering earthly kingdom of subterranean revenge, inexhaustible, insatiable in its outbursts against the fortunate, and equally in its masquerades of revenge, its pretexts for revenge. When would they attain their ultimate, most refined, most sublime triumph of revenge? Undoubtedly, if they could succeed in pushing their own wretchedness, all misery in general, into the consciences of the fortunate, so that the latter one day might begin to be ashamed of their good fortune and perhaps would say to themselves, “It’s a shameful to be fortunate. There’s too much misery!” . . .” [Nietzsche, Genealogy of Morals][/size]

Pezer - I see anarchism as equally “within the system”, if not more so, as the creation of a philosophy that transforms its laws. “The system” is simply “the world”. None of us is in the position to define exactly what, at this point, the ruling principles of government are. On the one hand we have Authority Figure, to whose beliefs I grant a lot more credibility than to the ideas of those who ridicule him, even though I can certainly not support all that he says or what he proposes as a horizon to thought. It stands beyond question for me that AF has some useful information to share, notably on orgonite and related matters. Years ago I purchased some of the stuff because of a thread by him I read, and it is very powerful in its effects. That was a significant discovery and enough reason to respect AF more than most on this forum, in terms of the value he has to offer. On the other hand there is the sceptic idea that the government represents simply the unorganized conflict of interests, where there is no room for conspiracy, and which is sort of transparent. I find this idea appealing but not very credible. We need only to call to mind the speeches of Eisenhower and JFK, who were likely a bit more informed than we are, to realize that there is a bit more going on. A well organized, insidious and persistant force aimed at drawing power to itself. This is of course consistent with the idea of will to power. Anyone who dismisses conspiracy theories out of hand can not at the same time have understood Nietzsche in any significant way. But my point is that Nietzsche speaks of the desirability of “evil” power-unions. This is the matter on which political philosophy should concentrate at this point, and the matter to which neither AF nor James S Saint (easily the most powerful analytical thinker active on this board) have anything to say, so far. How can we deal with the status quo as anything but rebels? This is where value ontology comes in - but to understand how this works you have to understand what it means to create values. I recommend the posts by Parodites in production.

I don’t think ambition is inherintly evil, but Ambition with no Wisdom or Fortitude is just foolish.

Many a man has destroyed his own life along with others by simply allowing his passions to rule him.

Do life effortlessly; engage in activities just for the sake of engaging. Don’t seek yourself in everything you do. It’s possible to be rather than to be as something

The world will never know the greatest feats. I mean, think about it. You could even make the argument that the greatest feats necessitate secrecy/not for public consumption.

Now, I am hyper competitive, and that is not to say I am not going to try. I guess I just phrase the quest somewhat differently. I’m not trying to imprint anything on the world, so much as perfect myself.