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41

Ierrellus,

But I think that one must first believe in God in order to think that way, Ierrellus. Would you agree or disagree?
There was a time when I believed in God so God was the one who acted upon me. I have shed that skin since coming to ILP ~ in other words, ILP has ruined me lol (we sacrifice something to gain something else) albeit I was entertaining strong doubts in the first place.

Now I can state what you say above and change the word “God” to nature.

To see Nature as here and now one must see Nature as reaching humans through their physical realities, not though some abstract, metaphysical speculations. Reminds me of Buber’s Ich and Du ~ an I and Thou relationship.

Phyllo,

I agree.
It might also be a Designing God’s (though a deists’s) indirect way of influencing relationship with It.
The outcome is still the same though - it cannot be proven either way. It is our desires and needs which create our personal realities.

42

Arc,
The deterministic trajectories of growth and development of stem cells convinces me that nature cannot be considered fortuitous business.On Natural religion Emily Dickinson ends her poem with “Instead of going to heaven at last/I’m going all along.” Thus I opt for a religion that is involved in our natural state as beings that evolved from chemical activity to creatures who can speculate on our place in the universe. That for me is sufficient proof that there is a God Who is involved in all creative processes. Galileo regretted the fact that religions as practiced have little to do the nature of reality as science proposes. So why not espouse a religion that is here and now, hands and feet real?
What causes our desires and needs?

43

Does enlightenment end with the realization of being at one with all that exists or can there be more to it than that?
Is enlightenment a passive word? I mean does it end with that realization or is there more to follow?
What does the truly enlightened person being infused with that light do next ~ if anything?

44

There is an eastern philosophy statement of understanding about the concept of enlightenment.

BEFORE enlightenment: Chopping wood and carrying water.
AFTER enlightenment: Chopping wood and carrying water.

My take on the term is that enlightenment isn’t passive. It is being in sync with the “nature” of all that is. Our day-to-day life may not change at all, but HOW we think of it does. It might even change how we choose to live - or not. For me, it isn’t about being happy but in finding contentment with who, what, and how I am.

45

Hi Tent,

I have always found that statement to be meaningful and wise.

That is what I was getting at. We do not sit surrounded by our numinous laurels and do nothing.

There is another word for enlightenment or a moment of enlightenment. It is a great word. What is it? :-"

46

There’s a bunch of 'em. I love the poem in your signature line.

47

I think another good word for enlightenment is atonement–at-one-ment.
Love Blake!!! He taught me much.

48

The word, another word for enlightenment which I was speaking about, does not necessarily have to connote a religious or Divine experience per se, but just a moment of enlightenment when some kind of a realization (which is probably the end result of a process) comes to us almost like a light going on beforehand.

That word is Epiphany. I always liked that word.

49

Enlightenment is a metaphor in search of a referent. I usually associate it with the 18th century European philosophical movement including people like Voltaire and Hume.

50

One form or influence of enlightenment is discovering that our first impressions and truths may be completely false.
Remember, lol, in Finding Nemo when Dory and Nemo were heading toward what they believed, assumed, took for granted to be a beautiful awesome Light? What did it turn out to be? A monster.

Enlightenment is not a passive word. If it becomes one, you are dead in the water.