Primordial template of consciousness - Essay 1

[encode_decode]

Amorphos

@Amorphos

I have read your replies btw, sometimes I just leave things for a while to let it go into my mind, or I have no current answer, - is why I don’t always answer.

I understand - for me it is generally above my head - lol - like your “Konflikt - as a root philosophy.” - above my head - I know what you are talking about from a superficial level but it usually takes a few readings for me to fully absorb it at the deeper level.

I must say I really like the depth of your “pool of being”.

Regarding my crazy triangle I was tempted to do this:

A = Conflict
B = Conflict
C = Totality

I could totally imagine a “human sphere” when you explained people on top of each others heads - I like to be able to visualize stuff and you paint a clear picture with your words.

@Amorphos

All that by just doing good!

Indeed!

I will write a more substantial response - right now I am tired from digging trenches.

[encode_decode]

Hey pilgrim-seeker_tom - apologies for the short response - I am tired.

I agree:

@pilgrim-seeker_tom

impossible to delineate the boundaries

totally.

[Arcturus_Descending]

encode_decode

I can offer this from Zen

Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.

Who was it who said that? That really isn’t true.

There are some or perhaps many, like myself, for whom mountains and water, any kind of waters, are just not simply mountains and water. They not only call to you but they reveal a part of their aspect which also lies deep within you.

Have you ever sat in front of a mountain or a tree (for instance) for hours and gazed up at it speechless and experienced that I and Thou connection which eventually flowed into simple being?

Mountains, oceans, rivers, trees, stars, snowfalls, rain storms, thunder, lol ad continuum ~~ does one need to become “enlightened” or a Buddhist in order to sense the living beauty and the awesome spirit which resides in these things? They all are capable of personifying us in some ways if we listen to them and really “see” them.

after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.

PSHAW!!!

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@Arcturus Descending

Who was it who said that? That really isn’t true.

It is not meant to be a statement of fact. Just illustrative to the student of Zen.

@Arcturus Descending

Have you ever sat in front of a mountain or a tree (for instance) for hours and gazed up at it speechless and experienced that I and Thou connection which eventually flowed into simple being?

Not the mountain or a tree per se but instead the majesty of totality.

@Arcturus Descending

Mountains, oceans, rivers, trees, stars, snowfalls, rain storms, thunder, lol ad continuum ~~ does one need to become “enlightened” or a Buddhist in order to sense the living beauty and the awesome spirit which resides in these things?

No, one does not.

[encode_decode]

Arcturus Descending

@Arcturus Descending

There are some or perhaps many, like myself, for whom mountains and water, any kind of waters, are just not simply mountains and water. They not only call to you but they reveal a part of their aspect which also lies deep within you.

I am curious whether you could explain this a bit more to me.

[Arcturus_Descending]

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:

Encode_Decode … seems I have offended you … I apologize.

You saw where he took offense? Point to it. I saw nothing at all in what he wrote that showed him taking offense. It was a cordial and harmonious response.

Why do we sometimes see offense where there isn’t any?

[encode_decode]

James

I have put further thought into this and decided it was time to respond . . .

@encode_decode

After the leveling off we enter the “wise stage” where we start looking for the more absolute nature of our existence. This is a distinct stage that shows itself like no other stage in life as there seems to be some very abstract reasoning going on consciously.

I do see where you are coming from . . . so yes as you say the philosophical stage . . . and now I am getting back to you . . .

@James S Saint

Wouldn’t that be the “philosophical stage”?

As I said previously: I can see what you are saying - I think I may have something the wrong way around there - I will think about that and get back to you.

@James S Saint

Seeking the nature of reality is not what wisdom is about. Wisdom is about discovering what is best to do or believe … often stemming from the philosophical stage of discovering Truth. Sadly, what is best to believe is often discovered to not be what is Truth … too late.

You must be speaking about good judgement - also bordering on ethos and ethics - I am not necessarily disagreeing with you - I just want some clarification. It seems there is some ambiguity regarding wisdom. I have listed three definitions from google below:

@Google

► the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

► the fact of being based on sensible or wise thinking.

► the body of knowledge and experience that develops within a specified society or period.

Having listed stupidity as wisdom’s opposite.

Pedantic maybe, but: Are you saying that good judgement and what is best to do or believe are the same thing? I believe this is morality.

I am sure you will point out some error - I don’t mind.

I would like to further point out something from Bounded Rationality:

@James S Saint

Wisdom is higher than reasoning. Philosophy is first and foremost about wisdom. Reasoning is the philosophical approach to achieving that goal.

I really like this - it still presents a small amount of ambiguity from the above from what I can tell . . . please, please, please - shed some light on this for me . . .

So here is my order and your criticism is quite welcome:

Pattern Stage > Second Pattern Stage > philosophical stage > Reasoning ∨ Truth > Wisdom ∨ Belief ∨ Good Judgment ∨ Morality

@James S Saint

Hence the incentive to create a distinction between the morose, wise fathers conscious of the real situation and the merry, blind faithfuls conscious of only a plausible situation (e.g. "Do not eat of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge [“consciousness of”] Good and Evil", but rather, “Pray that it be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.”).

Here we are pointing at morals again, are we not?

@James S Saint

Consciousness ≡ the process of remote recognition.

I like it - I will have a further question and/or more discussion about this . . .

@James S Saint

Patterns are distinguished by virtue of relevant contrasts of affectance upon senses. Through inheritance many fundamental affectance contrasts are preprogrammed as relevant (e.g. pain and comfort, light and dark, hot and cold, smooth and rough,… yins and yangs…). When a pattern triggers recognition of relevancy, “consciousness of” the pattern is formed. In homo-sapiens, this begins in early fetal development for internal senses, “inner consciousness” and “subconsciousness”. External consciousness doesn’t occur until external senses are triggered, even though many affectance contrasts are already prewired and prepared to alert response (e.g. sounds and parental face).

I will have a further question on this too - however - its seems fairly sound to me . . .

@pilgrim-seeker_tom

I like Manni’s new signature line:
[b]

“Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.”

[/b]
Ditto … wisdom

It seems to me that there are several ways of saying the same thing.