Yes, that is as a norm analogous to the chair. And I have some sympathy for the ego just trying to get through a stressful day without also seeing that chair. But nevertheless, despite my sympathy, at least some of us must notice the chair. And notice those moments when we caught just the slightest whiff that we reacted to something we did not notice was there. To have the courage to like a tracking dog follow those nearly fully dissipated chemical swirls before they are gone. That has been my bottom up approach, in a sense. Though given how the emotions are entangled in that, they have also been central.
“This thread is not about retards. I dismissed them from the very beginning. They do not deserve that much importance as you are thinking”
See that? That’s that aryan Hindu virtu shining through; zinnat’s stern nobility expresses itself in the natural authoritative inclination to honor and sustain a caste system of ranks, with retards at he lower levels. This for zinnat is an instinct, a mere trifle to be dismissed with imperious disregard… not so easy if you are an englishman, woman, or christian. What the European man lacks is this ethos, and zinnat can be a beacon of insight and hope for him.
“This thread is not about retards. I dismissed them from the very beginning. They do not deserve that much importance as you are thinking”
See that? That’s that aryan Hindu virtu shining through; zinnat’s stern nobility expresses itself in the natural authoritative inclination to honor and sustain a caste system of ranks, with retards at he lower levels. This for zinnat is an instinct, a mere trifle to be dismissed with imperious disregard… not so easy if you are an englishman, woman, or christian. What the European man lacks is this ethos, and zinnat can be a beacon of insight and hope for him.
Zoot,
I think that just like Turd, you also need to read the OP carefully again.
I did not dismiss retards because of any superiority/inferiority issue but for the simple reason that they not come near to any such forum whose name includes philosophy, thus no need to discuss about those. Simple as that.
So again, going by the literal definition of retard, there is no one here. Contrary to what you are thinking, i am saying that there is no retard at ILP. Do you understand what I meant to say!
Yes, we have more and less knowledgeable, good and bad mannered, and people of right and wrong intent ( only philosophy wise, not in general terms ) at ILP, the same for other forums too.
You seem to be somewhat offended by the OP, though I am not sure why. It looks to me that perhaps you are thinking I consider many other posters inferior to me and thus do not want to engage with them, but that is not the case, at least to me.
Knowledge was/is never the criteria for me to respect/care anyone. I always give more importance to intent. I have more respect for retards than those who are knowledgeable but do not have right intent, be it internet philosophy or even real life.
Secondly, contrary to what you said about me being pride Aryan or so, I do not think that high of myself. Perhaps you have not read my all posts, I have said manytimes that I rate myself quite low as far as philosophy is concerned. My area of interest is slightly different, and yes, I am certainly far above than average in that vertical.
Lastly, no matter how much people take offence of this, but this is reality that we all are not the same in any way. Blame it to evolution, nature, God or something else, we are not carbon copies of each other.
Forget of human constructs like caste for a momemt, do we all have a same face, same features, same height, same weight, same body structure, same beauty quotient etc? If not, what is a big deal if we do not have the same mental abilities, or the same fate!
Yes, one thing is certainly common that we all are humans and that should be remembered always too. And, that quality alone is more than enough to respect and consider all humans equal, irrespective of all other differences. If you ask my take on equality, I consider all living beings equals, including animals, at par with humans.
Though, I am not a supporter of cast system or any other devide by any means, but I see this labeling all over the world, though through different names.
In India, it is cast system, the same thing is being done through the skin colors in the US, or by the name of religions in Europe right now, and lastly, the labeling of rich and poor will always find place if there is no other one else. So, as long the humans are on this planet, this labeling will also remain there, in one way or another.
Perhaps, it is my choice of words that is giving the wrong impression to some posters. I think that I should have used " excluded " in spite of " dismissed ". Though, I am not sure whether that would have been helped or not.
With love,
Sanjay
I don’t think changing that word makes much difference. You could mull over the term
This implies the vantage of someone who is fully evolved and superior.
I do think people can be superior, but the ideas implicit in the evaluation of the degree of ‘evolvedness’ that seems a little ookie to me, given the ways ‘evolved’ has been evaluated in certain traditions.
Hmmm… what is happening in New Delhi? 10 million people without water… because one caste felt agreived, for being considered “too high caste”, meant they couldn’t qualify for affirmative action… so they stormed the water system, denied million of people water. Wont be on for days.
Prior to this, some fucking cussing would of been proper, people screeching fucking pissed, lighting flags on fire and throwing mudpies at lawmakers. In terms of social sciences, this is a clear case of the need to pause, take note, and listen. Historically, so of our best politicians have risen from listening to this venom… gone out and tried to figure out how to resolve it.
Decorum isn’t supposed to reign till everyone goes nuts, shuts down the public works raving mad, inevitably killing hundreds if not thousands through dehydration and kidney failure. This us a failure if a society failing to use its curse words, and use them effectively. If you gotta send out your military to resolve a situation, it’s a clear sign something went wrong.
How do we resolve this? By saying “Fuck You”. Everyone say it with me, or at me, now… “FUCK YOU”. It is a conveyor of complex information. Says “Listen to me” and “I am very much not pleased”. Saying them without the curse won’t lead to people paying attention… you go up to someone who is fucking everyone over and say “I am not pleased with your actions”… they are unlikely to change. They will scoff 90% of the time, only a subset of personalities react positively to such decorum. They think horrible things happen through words… that’s the worst. Language police in full force. Better to bury problems, than to take them seriously. Everything can be said in ways we appreciate.
Doesn’t occur to them at all a lot if the repressed violent outbursts in society flow through this. Parlimentry procedure in a city council resolves the flow of information for city councils, but not for angry, pissed off crowds if consistuents. The very core of democracy is chucking that parliamejtry rule out the window and just getting your ass cursed the fuck out, talking to the ringleaders.
Its no different in philosophy on the whole. Natural philosophy covers all angles of consciousness, not just a very minded subset of “Zinnati says” or “Only Humean Says” or “Magsj Says” or even “Turd Ferguson Says”. What is far more important us keeping the dialectics as wide and unhindered between us, be it in a forum or publication, and allow the greatest measure of free speech possible, with as much variation in response possible as we can. Cussing can be tactical… I use it as such, many people, I don’t use it, and not all situations even with the ones I do. If it doesn’t fit for the mindset I’m trying to culture or turn, I don’t use it. You can see it with James too… he is fond of cussing and in his case lying, but it’s tactical to defend his position when threatened. He tried it on me a few weeks back with Lavoy Finnicum, was a disaster on his part (perhaps if he had a case I would of been unnerved). He got a chance to learn it doesn’t work against certain thinkers. Same with Jakob and his Turd Thread… backfired like a motherfucker for him. I even have a thread where I’m teaching Cezar/Historyboy how to curse philosophically, we danced all over the place, was a very pleasant and informative experience.
Cursing one another out can be a culturally fulfilling experience, that raises the bar for debate, open up new paths to knowledge, and cause us to reconsider our mindsets relative to others. It truely us the Eight Wonder of the Ancient World, and I look back to a great number of ancient and modern philosophers for my debt to them in this regard. When I call somebody a cocksucker, I feel closer to the great philosophers in history. Its a unending chain, from past to present, cursing out everyone in the world. I’m especially thankful to the Cynics, who were well practiced in this branch of rhetoric. Our modern system of denouncing politicians is a direct descendent from them. Truly, the modern world cannot long survive without everyone cursing each other out, but we wouldn’t long last through the introduction of a absolute, inhumane decorum. Civil War is sure to erupt as a result.
Truly I say, from my heart, Fuck All Of You, and may my sentiments towards you forever make you self conscious. May it make you into better men, better thinkers, better philosopher.
If you have to be a retard, try to be a good retard … or at least good at it.
Is it possible to fail at being a retard?
James,
You are well aware of my limitations of english, still i would like to give it a try.
You are taking very broad interpretation of retardness, which includes all except some rare perfect ones. One does not need absolutely perfect intellect and knowledge to escape retardness. Merely taking some steps in that direction would serve the purpose.
Let us take a different but similar term to understand this. Take uneducated. Like retard or retarded, it is also in the past sense. Now, how would you define uneducated?
Would you call only doctorate degree holders educated and everyone else uneducated! I do not think that would be fair to bachelor and master degree holders. Yes, there must be some cutoff line. I think that it would be fair to call high school pass-outs as educated ones and below those uneducated. Having said that, merely becoming able to read and write is still not enough to become educated. There is different and lower term for that stage; literate. But every literate person cannot be considered educated by default. And, then comes illiterate, the last stage.
In the same way, i see stages in intellectuality too. To me, retards are those who yet have not crossed high school benchmark. To translate in the above analogy, they are mere literate in philosophy, not educated.
Thus, in the context of philosophy (read internet along), retards are those who are totally incompetent to observe, deduce and express. Again, i am saying only in the context of philosophy, not general. Means, a philosophically considered retard may be normal in the context of social sites like Facebook, Twitter and in other fields of life.
The cutoff line or eligibility needs to be decided according to the context and purpose. They should not be the same for all fields. And, i think that we follow this simple premise in all verticals of life. Do we not select relatively physically fitter persons for military, or relatively mentally fitter persons for administration? Why do we not use the same physical and mental benchmarks in both selections?
In the same way, why the same thing should and cannot be done in the case of Philosophy forums? Why a philosophy forum cannot have a different and slightly higher benchmark than routine social sites? Is/should be some difference between ILP or Facebook or not?
Let us not lose the actual purpose in the name of free speech or political correctness. Internet philosophy certainly covers more spread than its academic version, yet it would be wise neither to open it for all nor limited to a very few selected ones. The eligibility benchmark should be somewhere between the both extremes, instead of either keeping is extraordinary high or eliminating it totally.
with love,
sanjay
Facebook has been systematically violating free speech across Europe and Asia, and are therefore a integral part of the violence and social strife occurring in those backwards countries. Had they chose to take the higher road and enforced free speech against guys like you, Zinnati, we wouldn’t see so many Asylum Buildings burnt down in Germany and Sweden. The people lost the right to object verbally, in their anger ahead of time. As a result, it’s clandestine arson and psuedo-military police gangs in Europe, and in Asia, lives are loss.
I propose, instead, Zinnati and people like him be charged with crimes against humanity, and locked in a United Nations Detention Center, for advocating for the systematic erosion of the peace, and thought control, and revoking people’s human rights, including the right to free expression.
The actions you propose lead to abuse, loss of freedoms, suppression of free population, subversion, emergence of gangs and tongs, violence and open rebellion. However, freedom of speech leads to keeping such evil bastards at bay. They can’t stand the words of freedom, and shrink away, crawling back into their evil lairs. Free people know never to give such monsters the stick.
The world is a freer place with freedom of speech. People can air their difference, resolve them, leave conflicts. States obsessed with moderation are doomed to develop a siege mentality, and remain eternally tense for false reasons of personality deficiencies, of just a few, subjected on the many.
Its one of the pillars of war, and I reject it. I want freedom instead.
Fuckity Fuckity Fuck Fuck Fuck! PENIS!!!
that’s one line of defense for insults. In post you are citing above, I made others.
I was neither arguing with your post nor correcting your English. I was further explaining.
And the difference between “retarded” and “uneducated” is that the former is given to you and the later is not. Uneducated means that you do not have something, “education”. “Retaded” means that you have been slowed down, given slowness relative to an untampered homosapian of your breed. Often retardation leads to the lack of education due to the issue of keeping pace in order to acquire the education.
Zinnat,
That’s not necessarily true, Zinnat. Though there really isn’t any of what you call perfect intellect and knowledge since new information is always being brought to the forefront and one can always learn to use his brain in a more optimal way, no one is perfect in that way…no one is perfect PERIOD. The irrational and nonsensical ways in which we behave often have nothing to do with our intellect and with reason. Someone can be highly intellectual but at the same time quite idiotic.
Someone can be quite the philosopher and still have no wisdom or discipline when it comes to putting what he knows or has learned into the practice of everyday life.
What do you mean here by “in the past sense” and did you mean to say sense or tense?
In our everyday vernacular, retard can be a verb (to slow down) and a noun (as an insult) and the stupidity and laziness of a person to find a more civilized humane way to express one’s self when speaking about special ed people.
- Uneducated: Someone who has not had much of an education by most standards perhaps never went to high school.
- Uneducation to some may also mean lacking finesse, not knowing how to behave under circumstances where one needs to behave appropriately…not politically correct but logically and reasonably appropriate.
- Someone who has learned what needs to be learned and still doesn’t “get it” or “utilize it” may also be seen as uneducated.
…et cetera.
.
That would depend on the individual and how much further he took to perhaps also educating himself. Let’s not forget all of the books and knowledge that there are out there. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I may be wrong here, Zinnat, but do you view education only in terms of high academics? Maybe I said that incorrectly. I’m a peon when it comes to high education. lol
One thing I will say here. I hate the word "retard’ (it rubs me the wrong way) whether to describe someone who is mentally challenged or as an insult. The way I look at it, there are some people, whether they are highly educated or not, who would not use that terminology. For me, these people are more “educated” than those who think highly of themselves when it comes to “learning”.
I may be wrong here but on a philosophy forum, could there be someone who is TOTALLY INCOMPETENT to observe…et cetera?
I wonder, if places like Facebook, Twitter et cetera, these same people would act in the same way? Venue has nothing to do with anything…wherever we go, we carry ourselves and our egos with us.
[b]bench·mark/ˈben(t)SHmärk/
noun
1.a standard or point of reference against which things may be compared or assessed.
2.a surveyor’s mark cut in a wall, pillar, or building and used as a reference point in measuring altitudes.
verb
evaluate or check (something) by comparison with a standard. [/b]
You don’t think that there IS a much higher standard, intellectually speaking, between a philosophy forum and a place like Facebook (which I absolutely destest)lol? albeit at times the irrational behavior in here is akin to the irrational behavior on facebook.
Irrational aside here, there are some threads in here where food and recipes are discussed sometimes (nothing wrong with this, this is also a social forum) but on facebook, do you ever notice the high degree of focus on what someone has eaten or prepared for dinner or how many drinks they have consumed in one night? Quite boring. Facebook is a sign of the times indeed.
.
Hmmm…if that were the case, they probably wouldn’t let me in. 
So personally I’m glad that’s not the case.
I don’t know Zinnat. Maybe I’m making too much of it but with your statement above, you seem to be going into some territory where boundaries are crossed or at the very least, exclusivity. The last I heard, Carleas thinks of ilp as a democratic forum and I think this is true for the most part. But, since this is a democratic country and for the most part, the rules of a philosophy forum are more or less guided by its owner, within reason and without crossing the boundaries of inalienable rights, I suppose any philosophy forum would have the right to deny access to people who they thought were “not intelligent or knowledgeable enough”. But that seems a bit extreme to me.
I may be wrong here but that seems to be a really wide margin.
With love,
arc 
Zinnat,
I took your statement here at first to mean retardness in the sense of idiotic behavior. You may have meant mental slowness so my first response wouldn’t hold water in that regard.
“Do you understand what I meant to say!”
Yeah I understand you alright… you’re buckling under the pressure because you are in the company of europeans, canadians, Americans, and west virginians. This is to be expected zinnati; your superior culture and politik (spelled that with a k… that’s the intellectual german way to spell it. Now if I said polis instead, I’d get a nod from all the lovers of Greek philosophy) will always be the subject of ridicule and envy for such decadent western inferiors.
“Do you understand what I meant to say!”
Yeah I understand you alright… you’re buckling under the pressure because you are in the company of europeans, canadians, Americans, and west virginians. This is to be expected zinnati; your superior culture and politik (spelled that with a k… that’s the intellectual german way to spell it. Now if I said polis instead, I’d get a nod from all the lovers of Greek philosophy) will always be the subject of ridicule and envy for such decadent western inferiors.
I’m signing myself up to be a moderator on ILP. Who would vote for me?
I would make it compulsive and mandatory for everybody visiting the site to watch midget or clown porn.
Zoot,
Firstly, I cannot help it much if you do not want to listen and understand and just keep pampering your false perception about me, just like Turd. I would like you to read my conversation with UCCI in the below mentioned thread, which happed some time back. Perhaps, that may help you to understand my ideas about equality.
Secondly, I do not come under pressure that easily not even in my real life, forget about ILP or internet where I have nothing to lose.
Lastly, westners do not look frightening to me at all. They are as humane, or as good or as bad as anyone else.
With love,
Sanjay
There are philosophy forums that are run more tightly than ILP. There the focus is more on the philosophy. Here there is a lot of focus on personalities and how personality/psychology relates to beliefs and what is happening between people in addition to what is happening at the idea level. This entails it will get personal. I don’t think getting personal is a problem except where it derails a thread. An occasional outburst is not a problem, including one with insults.
People with good intentions or who may well have them destroy threads all the time without a single insult.
Yes, I’ve seen those forums Monero, always results in a schism and mass Exodus when a world renowned expert with three degrees and ten books get booted and half the forum starts demanding to know why.
Why? Cause the forum is linked to a real institution, and it’s standards are too high… despite the poster doing far better in the standards department. I’ve seen neurologist booted, psychologist booted, computer programmers maligned and sent into exile… all were the leading translators and writers in the field. Why? Cause someone decided he wanted to turn the philosophy everyone was studying into a living philosophy to be debated and compared, or the mods didn’t like the direction of a discussion.
After a while, you start viewing moderators like the thorns on a rose. Whatever explanation you can come up with for their existence, it becomes rather evident after a while all they can do is prick, and prick indiscriminately. They won’t even know why they are doing it… they just got used to it.
It has to be recognized modern forum design wasn’t set up for philosophy, but basic chat. This exact format could be used for Buffy the Vampire Slayer Teen Chat… obviously you want to be able to moderate the inevitable flow of porn and catfights (to a degree, girls will fight). Hello Kitty conversations don’t matter as much for society as a whole.
Here… we are training people to practice logic and rhetoric… not to classroom standards, but real world standards in getting people practiced and ready for discussion. This includes hostile reception. Hostile reception NEVER goes the way you want when your a Noob. Some guys like I ambiguous have been doing this forever, still a noob. In Zinnati’s case, he just needs to realize criticism of a behavior or idea doesn’t equal hatred of individuals, and people can speak negatively about ideas, individual behaviors or nations (such as their gullibility) without this being turned into universal racism or hatred. People’s minds are far more complex than that.
Do you think I just completely write Zoots off because he us just another Neo-Nazi with a felony? Half of them who got them, it’s for sex crimes, psuedo-intellectuals mixing with scary as fuck thugs fixated on committing capital crimes, no group willing to take them in except the farthest extremes of the left. Such guys come a dime a dozen. But he is also human, capable of thinking beyond the constraints of his Neo-Nazis Breakfast Club. Eventually, he is going to realize this Aryan chitchat has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and will chuck it to the wind along with the cock sucking assholes he meets up with, who overall have nothing to do with anything, and choose to sit in cycles of self defeat.